Huge difference between government, and the church/leveraged buyout guy. The
latter you can just dictate your will. You don't need to compromise. At
Bain, you dictate it is so, and it is that way. If you don't like
someone, you get them fired. In the church, much of your personal latitude is
limited by the "handbook". And if you don't like someone, you
send them to nursery. While in church you really do not have any
power over people, you rely on their good will to get things done. In office,
achieving that level of niceness doesn't exist. You rely on others to do
the right thing, which very seldom happens, through compromise, something
neither a bishop nor VC needs to do. You can't just dictate your will.I really see very little overlap in skills. If he wins, he needs to
serve at the will of all the people, not just those who voted for him. He will
not be able to unilaterally demand things. It will be a challenge.
This is an aweful comparison and if anything being a mormon hurts him more then
it helps in the political world. Desperate article to say the least.
UtahBlueDevil:WHAT??? Am I reading your comments right? You said
'In the church, much of your personal latitude is limited by the
"handbook".' This indicates that you think Mitt Romney needed to
work within a structure in his duties as Bishop. Then you say, 'While in
church you really do not have any power over people, you rely on their good will
to get things done.' That would suggest he needed to work with people by
influencing them, rather than demanding things be done 'his way'. Then
you say, 'If he wins, he needs to serve at the will of all the people, not
just those who voted for him. He will not be able to unilaterally demand
things.' Yeah ... that's what you implied when you suggested that Mitt
Romney needed to work within a structure to fulfill his ecclesiastical duties -
using influence rather than control. Then you conclude, 'I really see very
little overlap in skills.'Really? Am I the only one who thinks
you just completely contradicted yourself? Well, I guess I agree with you, then.
His experience as an ecclesiastical leader will, indeed, be very beneficial to
him as President of the United States.
Romney is as Mormon as he has to be when he has to be. What ever works at the
time. I give to you his stand on Abortion prior to his supposed change of mind.
The evidence leans to his being Pro-Choice except perhaps for Mormons. The only thing good about Mitt is that he can Defeat Obama. Defeating Obama is
a key to stopping Abortion.As long as you favor Abortion on any
level you are part of the problem not part of the solution. The lesser of 2
Evils is still Evil.The problem is the ability backing and money to
win. So if you can't get it all. You have to take what you can get.
Extremist on both sides don't get that. So they Vote for someone who
can't win or worse yet don't Vote.I never did understand
why low voter turn out was so bad as long as your side wins.
Re: mightymite DRAPER, UT"This is an aweful comparison and if anything
being a mormon hurts him more then it helps in the political world"He will be elected because of his ability to help our economy. He used his
skills to save the 2002 Winter Olympics from financial disaster and when the
games closed he left $100 million dollars in the bank. Probably why Obama wants
to steer clear of that issue.
Utah Blue Devil: WOuldn't it be something if the whole nation relied upon
each other out of sheer good will, rather than compulsory means?
Dear Abielle: I agree with you. Some people use the most
convoluted logic. This hyper partisanship is getting really sad when someone
can't just accept that Mitt Romney has done an excellent job both in the
Church and in business and that it will influence him for good and has prepared
him in his roll as President of the United States.Obama is such a
disaster as president and it would be really nice to have someone who actually
has some legitimate experience and training in leadership rolls.
UtahBlueDevil, I consider the three years that I spend in the Nursery to have
been a blessing. I got the chance to spend time with young children and put
their feet on a path that hopefully will help them as adults. So far out of
that nursery, I'm two for two with young men going out on missions and
three for three for temple marriages for the young women. I'd like to
think that I had a hand in their success. Plus we had some really good times.
I wasn't banished there. My next calling after that? EQ President. Now,
that was an affliction at times.
Dealing with peoples spiritual lives (whatever that is), is wonderful experience
for leading an entirely secular organization...but...working within that society
for the betterment of it's residents isn't, in fact it's a
liability? Yup, gotcha.
Everyone knows that all of the administrative grunt work has to be done in
quorums, Bishoprics and Young Men and Young Womens positions. If
you can leap-frog over the above positions and land yourself in the glorious
ecstacy of a Primary Teacher, then, you have arrived. But don't tell
anyone, cause then sitting on the stand in a position of authority will lose
@ Abeille & CatsGood Management skills are Good Management
skills regardless of venue. However, its interpersonal & communication
skills that are most crucial as POTUS. Case in point; Clinton & Dubya.
Romney is not going to beat Obama. If you're looking for a republican with
a chance to beat Obama than Ron Paul is the only one. If you're looking
to vote for a fellow Mormon, which seems to be the case with the DNews bias,
than Romney is the one.Romney has a great record and is a good guy.
Ron Paul can literally take away youth, minorities, and women from Obama. He
can take republicans, democrats, and in betweens. Ron Paul can beat Obama .....
Romney does not have a chance.It's left wing vs right wing when
we've got a guy like Ron Paul who can unite everybody under the prospect of
fiscalconservatism and social liberalism. Nobody in this election can beat a
candidate who can get votes from both parties. And we saw how youth votes
helped Obama last campaign .... Ron Paul has stole those youth voters.
When you are and have been in the world of business, religion, obtaining an
education in a variety of fields, and the head of the Olympics, etc., you are in
a fishbowl for everyone to scrutinize every word, thought and even take
editorial delight in changing what they thought he said or meant to say. He has
done what he has done and accomplished because he was taught and shown the
example. He is a good person and subjects himself and his family to many abuses
in the media and press and public eye to serve other people. He doesn't
have ill intent in anything he appears to us to do. Some complained when he
became the leader of the Salt Lake Winter Olympics and that was all for naught.
He did an outstanding job because he has convictions, experiences on how to run
things, etc. and especially knows how to blend people that know what they are
doing to do what he envisions for a successful event. For not being a Utahn, he
has set a model for our State to emulate. There will always be those who want
to infer his religion forces him. He has Agency.
The WaPo articles address "leadership.”If Romney's
experiences are anything like what most Mormons, those in other faiths or of no
faith experience, it is an opportunity to serve, not simply to
“lead.”In the Latter-day Saint experience, as I view it,
a "leader" is simply one who guides the charitable service of others. It
is, in a phrase, "organized charity." Those of all faiths clearly can
understand this.Paul reminds us that the head and eye need the hand
and foot. Leaders serve those who serve.Of the three WaPo articles
reviewed by Mr. Walker, Dave Ulrich’s alone uses the words
“serve” and “service”; he speaks of Latter-day Saints
who "serve as lay leaders," saying "Mormon leaders’ jobs are
more about service than prestige," referring to Romney's "church
service," and telling of Romney's "serving his local congregations
as a lay minister."Christians, non-Christians, and people of no
religious faith understand we are all in this together.Our greatest
happiness comes from unselfishly serving others. That is the kind of motivating
factor likely standing behind Mitt's leadership roles in Church service.
Flying Finn, in your statement you say: He will be elected because of his
ability to help our economy. He used his skills to save the 2002 Winter Olympics
from financial disaster and when the games closed he left $100 million dollars
in the bank.When you look into it a little deeper you will see it
was not Romney who saved the Olympics; it was you and me and all the other tax
payers. Romney went back to Washington and received lots of money to bail out
the Olympics and that is how the Olympcs was saved and if he is going to use the
same approach to save the American economy then we are in real trouble. The
government can not keep solving problems by throwing money at them. And that
seems to be Romney's MO.
This article was an interesting counter-point to the current "Mitt, the
Alpha-Male, High school Gay Basher Bully" circulating in the national media.
From this I've learned both of the two main Presidential candiates were
both young men once and did things that made the adult versions of themselves
wince. I wince still over the stupid things I said and did at 16-17. Well, its
all part of growing up. IMHO, Mitt may win the popular vote but lose the
electoral college vote. Oh well, it will sell alot of newspapers in the meantime
Romney's church related experiences are clearly not on the list of things
the campaign wants average voters to think about. It's "business
leader", "saved Olympics" and "Super Man/Father/Husband",
with "former governor" and "church leader" as far down the list
as possible. So DN steps in to remake Mitt in our own image just in case its
steady pumping of the campaign has been missed. Of course it STILL could be
informative if current or former LDS Bostonians are asked about their dealings
with Brother Mitt. But let me guess: words like "repentance",
"humility", "empathy" and "humility" just won't
Perhaps, President Obama would be doing "better" if self-righteous
Conservatives would be praying FOR him [as the Brethern, LDS Doctrine instruct
them too], instead of praying, hoping, and wishing for his -- and America's
-- demise.As much as I hated GWBush - I always prayed for him.
Prayed at times he'd snap out of it, but prayed FOR him none-the-less.
To "LDS Liberal" who said that they want Obama to fail along with the
US? All we ask is that his policies fail to be implemented, we ask for one more
day of freedom before the hand of government is used to oppress us and our
freedoms are eliminated in the name of "fairness".But you do
bring up something that you never seem to address. If you hated Bush for his
policies, why do you like Obama for taking Bush's policies and making them
bigger?Also, another point in your hypocrisy is shown by how yous ay
that " if self-righteous Conservatives would be praying FOR him [Obama]"
then turn around and say that " hated GWBush - I always prayed for him.
Prayed at times he'd snap out of it". Isn't that a bit self
I fail to see how Romney's pursuit of riches has ANY kind of tie to being
LDS (or being Christian, for that matter). I just don't think it's
possible for the rich to get a “pass” - particularly when they
utilized predatory business practices that resulted in people being fired to
save money. I guess I just have a different idea of what it means to be a
To "UTAH Bill" according to the Book of Mormon and the Doctrine and
Coventants, the persuit of riches is a desirable thing if the person doing the
persuing is doing so with the intent of helping the poor.If you want
to look at things is a broader Christian sense, think of it this way. Which is
better, to give a man a fish or hire him to work on your fishing boat? You have
to have wealth to own the fishing boat. Now imagine you have 15 fishing boats,
you can now help even more people out of poverty by employing them. Isn't
that what Christ taught, first get yourself out of a hole, then help those who
are still there?
@ Redshirt 5/15 12:52 pHave you never paid attention to AM Radio,
Fox, or A GOP Press Conf?@ Redshirt1701 5/16 11:04 aHave
you never heard Osteen & his ilk promoting the "prosperity gospel"
Newsflash: God wants you to be Happy not Rich.Further, Why do you
think MLM's that emphasize minimal work & max profits are so popular
here in Utah?
Leadership often requires an individual to make the right decision, regardless
of the short-term consequence. Romney's religious background certainly
provides him with a long-term focus when making these tough decisions. His
professional experience demonstrates that he knows when to make the unpopular
shifts in order to create a healthy economic condition. Without
Romney and Bain, many of the businesses they purchased would have likely gone
under (leaving everyone without a job), being bloated like our Federal
Government. Being profitable, with few exceptions, leads to proper pay and
benefits for the proper amount of labor force. Healthy businesses make money,
this is not a crime nor is it immoral. If it were, any profit would be
considered "Predatory". Are you prepared to return all of your profits
as ill-gotten gains?
I served a mission in France at the same time as Mitt Romney. At the time I was
there, he was Assistant to the President (AP) and he and his companion picked me
up at the airport on my first day in Paris. Frankly, I hope he becomes
President, just so I can tell my grandkids that I was once escorted around Paris
by the President of the United States!