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Tiffany Gee Lewis: Why Christianity needs a church

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  • Moontan Roanoke, VA
    April 11, 2012 6:04 a.m.

    I want to say this is a very nice piece before the critic's begin picking it apart.

    Of course brick and mortar churches have problems; this should be expected so long as humans attend them. But we should rise above the negative and grab the good with a tenacious hold. In doing so, we can't help but become better followers of Christ.

  • AZ Border Dude Naco, AZ
    April 11, 2012 8:17 a.m.

    As a twenty-something I had the same feelings about my fromer church's shifting focus from God to Dollar, it upset me. I that religion, became the epitome of the scripture, ".... because they know not where to find it," and drifted for fourteen years. I rejected any religion that did not worship Jesus Christ. None met what I was seeking.

    Then I contacted the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter Day Saints. Two very patient missionaries took their time and exerted a lot of restrtaint to let me set the pace. I was baptized and it was a wonderful experience. For the last forty plus years I have been with the same church.

    The community feeling that the article mentioned extended far beyond the limits of my neighborhood. In my career, I had to travel often. Wherever I went, I was made welcome and accepted at any branch or ward in the world. My travels took me to over a dozen foreign lands, and almost half of our states. Some trips were for a couple of weeks, others for months and years. But, I was welcome as if I lived there all my life.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 11, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    I guess I am one of those critics. And my problem isn't with the church per se, but the culture the church creates almost as an unintended consequence. It seems at times that the "church" part sometimes overwhelmes the gospel part. That there is such a pre-occupation with doing tasks (aka the "work"), that we loose the humanity of the whole thing. Unfortunately it sometimes takes a tragedy like hurricane cleanup to get people to snap back from getting tasks done to what it the whole process about. It is in the unstructured events like a clean up that peoples humanity really shows through, where as on a typical sundeay what you see is the hurried rush from task to task, meeting to meeting.

    In any large organization, churches included, size and growth creat issues around governance, where process starts to overwhelm the intent. Sometimes we need to step back from worrying how many kids get their duty to god award versus just how they are doing, at a personal level.

    Religion is a deeply personal experience. The administration of a faith needs to be very carefull to not overshadow that very important fact.

  • Moontan Roanoke, VA
    April 11, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    @UtahBlue ... Your comment doesn't read like a criticism to me. More like a healthy caution. We all should be continually vigilant that we don't take our eyes off of what really counts ... loving our neighbor. It is easy to lose sight of the mark in all the drama of daily living.

  • Jeanie b. Orem, UT
    April 11, 2012 9:42 a.m.

    I agree with everything said in this article as well as posted so far.

    I have felt great peace being a member of a global church - like gathering under a large tent filled with people who are trying their best to do what's right while a storm rages outside.

    It has made me a better person to be in the company of people I would not ever have known or chosen to know with out being a part of an organized religion. There have been opportunities to exert myself and behave more like Christ - opportunities that would not have come if I had picked the people I associated with.

    I also agree with UtahBlueDevil that we need to be careful that the "check-off list" does not overshadow the real condition of the soul.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    It depends on the individual. Some Christians would have their faith be strengthened with a church, others it may be weakened. Some may draw the most benefit from a Southern Baptist church, others a Catholic, Methodist, or LDS church.

  • The Atheist Provo, UT
    April 11, 2012 10:20 a.m.

    I have a bit different perspective.

    1. They provide community

    No, they provide exclusion of others from YOUR "community". 

    2. They give aid, 3. They provide service

    The number of religious people who "give aid" is a drop in the ocean compared to the total membership of "believers, and the dollar amounts are equally trivial. Do the math. The average amount of "aid" given by Mormons since 1985 has been less than $4 per year per person. Organized crime families give more "aid" as a front, and greedy corporations give more money and service in the name of good PR.

    4. They expand your circle

    No, you have befriended MORMONS from Africa, Germany, Peru, Haiti and Russia. That is not an expansion, but a contraction of your "circle".

    5. They provide a school for learning
    for learning about your own religion (in monotonous repetition), and learning completely false and distorted things about other religions. In short, you learn pure propaganda.

    6. They provide opportunities for growth
    Reality provides opportunity for growth. Religion denies and distorts reality, which thwarts growth.

  • garybeac Chapel Hill, NC
    April 11, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    Why is it that the best articles and talks come from especially feminine sisters? Alas, I suppose we must continue limping along with an all-male priesthood. Apparently, only men need its opportunities for growth. Anyway, the question seems to be, "How do we evade the stunting parts of Mormon culture without throwing out the Mormons?" My best suggestion is to get rid of the missionary program all together or transform it totally. My son was deeply disappointed by the attitudes of his companions. They openly disrespected other cultures and beliefs and practically admitted that they were serving to please their parents and come back to BYU and get a pretty wife. Sheesh! We need a movement: "It's okay to stay!" and "Serve God, not yourself!" Look into your heart and see if you're inclined to unfavorably judge a young man who chooses to pursue a career that will serve his family and community instead of going to Russia for two years to seek out the dissatisfied. The elect will seek out an LDS visitors center on their own. Also, the Word of Wisdom: Really? You feel sanctified by not drinking coffee? Ever heard of the atonement?

  • Kith Huntington Beach, CA
    April 11, 2012 12:14 p.m.

    UtahBlueDevil, garybeac, you both bring up a valid point. So many in the church simply "go through the motions". They become so focused on the physical duties (and as those companions did, the benefits) they lose sight of their purpose, which is spiritual growth. In the parable of the ten virgins, the virgins represent the church members (whether the term 'church' in this example means, well, church members, or the righteous of the world or most likely something in between I haven't figured out yet). Only five of the ten are prepared for the bridegroom (The Lord). the other five are shut out while preparing. If you were to take this literally, fifty percent of the church will be unprepared and consequently will not make it. Probably more. We are all given free agency, we may choose as we will. Does this mean our doctrine is flawed? No, just the members.

  • M. Matchette Syracuse, Utah
    April 11, 2012 12:43 p.m.

    In a time when TPTB are succeeding at dividing this country and starting a new religeon (Gov't dependancy), enticing women to work out of the home because the standard of living is lowering as this depression deepens, destroying the family and it's values and trading them for unfullfilling and fake ones, is it any wonder that neighborhoods around the country don't know their neighbors? How are we to get together for a common cause and protect our freedoms? Wasn't that a great idea to kick God aside? Those Churches and their places of worship are more than a shallow athiest can see. They are a refuge from the world, and good place to know your neighbors and the issues specific to the area...

  • Brahmabull sandy, ut
    April 11, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    Churches, and the LDS church in particular seem to focus too much energy on things that have very little weight in the eternities and forget to do the big things. Example: people get so caught up on the word of wisdom, yet fail to serve others. Being christlike has nothing to do with not drinking coffee or tea, as I am sure there will be no eternal punishment to drinking a certain beverage. There will, however, be eternal punishment for not treating people kindly. Religious people are often judgemental of those in other religions, and even in their own religion. This is not what christ had in mind based on what he taught. Point is, there are things that will matter, and the little things won't.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    April 11, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    "Are there churches taking advantage of their members and losing sight of what “religion” is all about? Absolutely. Do we need to look outside the facade of religion and return to the fundamentals of Jesus Christ’s teaching? Certainly."

    What a hypocritical statement. Let me guess, your going to condemn other churches for being this way but not mention your own.

  • donn layton, UT
    April 11, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    RE: Mormon #1. reason They provide community(man centered).

    Biblical #1 reason Christ centered. Going to church is a visible, tangible expression of our love and worship toward God. It is where we can gather with other believers to publicly bear witness of our faith and trust in God, something that is required of all Christians (Matt. 10:32-33) -- and it is where we can bring Him offerings of praise, thanks, and honor, which are pleasing to Him. "I will declare Your name to My brethren; In the midst of the assembly I will praise You" (Psa. 22:22). People are often motivated toward church attendance for how it will bless themselves, however we should remember that the primary purpose of the corporate gathering is to bring "service" to the Lord as a blessing to Him (Psa. 134:2). Indeed, the Lord is deserving of our time and energy to honor Him with our service of devotion. "You are worthy, O Lord, To receive glory and honor and power.. (Rev. 4:11). There is the promise of a special visitation of the Lord's presence whenever two or more gather specifically in the name of Jesus. By implication, this means whenever "Jesus" is the object of gathered prayer, worship, praise.

  • BeckiD Boise, ID
    April 11, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    Your article reminded me of my life, I spent years searching for God’s true church. Then God revealed to me that His Church isn't religion, it's made up of people. Those with faith in Jesus are part of God’s true church. Paul wrote “Unto the church of God which is at Corinth... with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours” (1 Co 1:2)

    The foundation of God’s Church is made up of people: Jesus, His apostles, and Old Testament prophets: "...and of the household of God; And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ himself being the chief corner stone; 21In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy temple in the Lord." (Ephesians 2:19b-21)

    Since we are also commanded to not give up meeting together (Hebrews 10:25) it's important to find a place to worship God. Finding a church that is "built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, [and] Jesust" is paramount! That foundation is their teachings, found in the Bible.

  • non believer PARK CITY, UT
    April 11, 2012 2:45 p.m.

    Because by hearing the same things over and over again, one starts to believe what they are hearing as truth! Even though there is no physical evidence to support their teachings! If you are not in attendence, they do not have the same ability to instill fear and guilt in their members, thus leading to false hope!

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    April 11, 2012 4:42 p.m.

    How many families of a professed religion DO NOT raise their kids from birth into their chosen church? I've rarely ever seen the parents who keep faith neutral with their kids so they can make their own decision when they're an adult. The indoctrination starts young ... and that's why Christians need a church.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 11, 2012 6:26 p.m.

    You know, I find it funny that some feel what seems to be so insecure with their own beliefs that rather than professing and sharing what their beliefs system does right, they instead spend their energy trying to tear down those who don't believe as they do.

    Truth doesn't require you to tear down something else to make it true. It should stand alone on its own merits. Needing to tear down what someone else believes only shows a shallowness in ones own beliefs, whether it be religion, or politics.

    If you path is so good, take it, and let those who have found their own path to do what works for them. And I say this to members of my own church - the LDS faith as well. But it is particularly irritating that there are a few who constantly say how superior their belief system is, and yet never spend a second sharing how that belief system has enriched their lives. Rather, they focus on trying to tear down others beliefs.

    If what you have found is so positive, share that, not what is wrong with the way I believe. The "easy" negative path just shows weakness.

  • Supporting LDS Church Salt Lake City, UT
    April 11, 2012 6:35 p.m.

    "The coming forth of the Book of Mormon is a sign to the entire world that the Lord has commenced to gather Israel and fulfill covenants He made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."

    We have a church- and it's not one that man established, but God. That's how it works. God authorized the restoration of His Church and His priesthood in the latter-days, to spread the message of repentance, forgiveness, and joy. It's a literal gathering, a literal tiding of joy, and so on. The Church is a literal fulfillment of the Bible. Just as Christ came and the Jews said they had a Bible- Christ didn't do away with it, but fulfilled it. The Book of Mormon is no different. It does not negate a thing of the Bible, but fulfills it all the same.

    The idea that 'Christians' need a church rests on the idea that God has not established His church and that the gathering of Israel in the latter-days is not a real doctrine. It relies on ignoring the Bible. The truth is that God's church has been restored.

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    April 11, 2012 7:08 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil,

    "Truth doesn't require you to tear down something else to make it true. It should stand alone on its own merits." - Yet the truth I've been told doesn't stand.

    "Needing to tear down what someone else believes only shows a shallowness in ones own beliefs, whether it be religion, or politics.

    If you path is so good, take it, and let those who have found their own path to do what works for them. And I say this to members of my own church - the LDS faith as well." - Yet missionaries travel the world telling people their faith is wrong and their church is only one true church.

    What you're saying is sounding very hypocritical.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    April 11, 2012 7:25 p.m.

    To: The Atheist - Provo, UT: First, I am not of the LDS Faith and reading your comments seems to me that you have been attending a far different branch of the LDS Church than anything that I have ever experienced across the world in my travels. First, my experience with LDS members is vast over the years and I find them all inclussive of any and all people. I suppose that your experience my relate more to your Utah experience than actual LDS Church experience on a broader scale. Religion is reality and the many examples of such can be found in writings such as the Bible where examples of people's charity and love for others give real examples for all of us. While this is not exclusive to the LDS Faith, these types of people live everywhere who serve others and help in their communities. My advice to you would be to leave Utah and get a real world experience.

  • beatrice Beaverton, OR
    April 11, 2012 7:42 p.m.

    4. They expand your circle

    This is especially true of Mormon congregations, which are organized by geography. Without a church congregation, my circle would be as large as my neighborhood block and my work associates.

    I obviously need an explanation of the above quote from her article.
    Mormon wards ARE organized by geography...and thus the circle IS only as
    large as the neighborhood and LDS workplaces.

    Her church congregation is that small circle....why does she say the opposite?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    April 11, 2012 9:24 p.m.

    "We have a church- and it's not one that man established, but God."

    Of course you think yours is the only "God" approved one.

    Just like every other religion.

    Religion is so predictable.

  • The Deuce Livermore, CA
    April 11, 2012 10:17 p.m.

    To: non believer - PARK CITY, UT: First of all, your comment related to "there is no physical evidence to support their teachings!" does not make it. There are too many examples in this world where things once thought of as umproven, only turn out to be proven and now are accepted as reality. Don't let your learning be clouded over by this type of thinking as you will never move forward. While my comments are not specifically directed towards religious beliefs, you tend to make sweeping statements that at some point in time you may wish you had not made the statement. Becasue something is not proven today, tomorrow may change everyone's thinking and you may be left behind. Simply keep an open mind and not close off things you do not understand at the present time.

  • donn layton, UT
    April 12, 2012 8:15 a.m.

    RE: Supporting LDS Church, The coming forth of the Book of Mormon is a sign to the entire world that the Lord has commenced to gather Israel and fulfill covenants He made to Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob."
    Messianic Congregations(Jewish Christians) believe the Abrahamic covenant is unconditional given to the Jewish people, despite her national rejection of Yeshua the Messiah. God will purge Israel of unbelief during the Great Tribulation, the time of “Jacobs’s trouble” ,resulting in the national acceptance of Yeshua as her true Messiah(Is 52:13-53;12),(Jer 30:7),(Ezek 20;33-42)(Daniel 9:27)(Zec 12:10,13:8-9)(Romans 11:26).

    God will ultimately fulfill every aspect in the Messianic kingdom, At that time the Jewish people will know God personally through Messiah Yeshua and will possess the entire land of Israel according to its Biblical boundries, (Gen 12;1-3;15:17-18;) Jer 31: 31-34) (Romans 11:25-28).

  • LValfre CHICAGO, IL
    April 12, 2012 9:39 a.m.

    This should be titled why Christianity needs to indoctrinate children and the answer would be because its the only way to maintain followers as every next generation slowly distances itself from it.

  • Capella Bakersfield, CA
    April 12, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    Enjoyed your article, Tiff. There were real reasons and spiritual reasons that you addressed for belonging to a church. The Biblical one is explicit in Hebrews 10:25- to not forsake the gathering of the saints.

    I grew up in a large, happy LDS home and only knew the support and love of family and community. My parents refused to let us complain, criticize or denigrate our church family, neighbors, school authorities, etc. When we asked where the rest of the ward was on a chapel clean-up day, my sweet father would quote Jesus' words to Peter: "What is that to thee? Follow thou Me!" (John 21:22). We would laugh and carry on. It took a few years, but we got the message. It took away the envy, self-pity and gossip, and gave us joy and self-esteem in the Lord. As active adults, we realized that not every member was raised as we were, but we were never made to esteem ourselves as better than anyone else. We realized there was no "They" in a community; it's all "We".

    Although no longer of the denomination, I will always cherish my heritage of church family.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    April 12, 2012 6:51 p.m.

    LValfre - if missionaries do what they are supposed to do, they are not to disparage the beliefs of those they are teaching.... if they do speak negatively of another religion, then they are not teaching how they are supposed to.

    'What you're saying is sounding very hypocritical.'

    If I had torn down someone else's beliefs, yes, that might be true. But I no more speak for the behavior of all those whom I share beliefs with any more than do you speak for everyone is believes something else. Let me ask you this, if there are those who believe like you but do things that our of character with the way you believe, does than make you a hypocrite? Really?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    June 8, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    Christ didn't create his church as some sort of cultural hangout - he created his church as a means of saving Gods children. Without the "true church of Jesus Christ" there would be no priesthood authority - no power to bind on earth and bind in heaven and as a result no salvation beyond death. Simply setting on some mountain side and reading the New Testament isn't going to save you beyond death. Saving ordinances are required by the same Jesus that people want to get to know. Christ said "if you love me keep my commandments". Yes these are commandments not suggestions. Receiving saving ordinances is a commandment given by Jesus Christ himself.

    No church - no salvation.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    June 8, 2012 4:50 p.m.

    re: patriot 3:21 p.m. June 8, 2012

    "No church - no salvation."

    Therein (again) is the problem w/ orthodox christianity.

    I'm a Gnostic and firmly believe that salvation comes from within through knowledge and self-improvement.

  • Baccus0902 Leesburg, VA
    June 8, 2012 5:04 p.m.

    I found the article to be touching.

    I personally agree with the notion that Christians and any other people's movement has the need to gather, discuss, learn and strength the ideology.

    I left the LDS Church many years ago. However, I still I'm very much interested in what is going in Mormonism.

    There is a moment in which you have to decide if the religion or organization you follow satisfies your mind and spirit. Many people like to follow quietly and like conformity, others have different needs and the church (any church) is no longer able to answer your questions.

    The problem starts not necessarily when certain doctrine or teaching doesn't make sense to you. But the crisis many time starts when other members seem to suffer with your questioning and analysis and think of you as an apostate for daring to ask or comment.

    As a child of God I miss the communion of the saints. However, as a child of God I cannot let an organization deny my own reasoning, faith and common sense. After all "the glory of God is intelligence".

    Reasoning/individual vs. conformism/community: I will always choose reasoning/individual.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    June 8, 2012 9:31 p.m.

    I saw a poll recently where people were asked to name the first thing they thought of when they heard the word "Christian". Among people in the under thirty age group that first thought was "anti-gay". Among that age group that is an extremely negative association. Christians may have trouble converting that demographic.

  • Thinkman Provo, UT
    June 8, 2012 11:41 p.m.

    To believe in Jesus Christ and to follow his teachings of loving others, forgiving others, doing your best in all aspects of your lives and giving of your time and talents to the service of others, you DO NOT need an organized church or religion.

    All "Christian" churches are built on one man or woman's view of Christ. This is true for the Catholic Church, the Baptists, Lutherans, Jehovah Witnesses, Eastern Orthodox and yes, even the LDS church.

    Just live your life by following these tenets and you will find peace and happiness.

    1) Love for myself first,
    2) love for others,
    3) kindness to others,
    4) gratitude,
    5) keeping my word and being honest,
    6) striving for excellence in all I do,
    7) forgiving others for their offenses yet also allowing the demands of justice to be met as needed for those wrongs, and lastly,
    8) obeying the laws of the land.

    I don't need to nor should I, hand my life over to any religion that is built on the ideas of a man or woman that evolve because of expediency or because the leader of the religion has a different view.

  • Dennis Harwich, MA
    June 9, 2012 6:30 a.m.

    It's preposterous to think that you NEED to go to a building to find spirituality.
    Going to a building only removes the guilt of thinking you don't measure up by staying home. Organized religion is guilt driven, not love driven.

  • Kathy Riordan Fort Myers, FL
    June 9, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Christ established a church for a reason and promised it would never fail. Had the church been unnecessary, he would never have established it.

  • qapilot Orem, UT
    June 10, 2012 7:36 a.m.

    On "expanding your circle," one critical commenter indicates that only the circle of Mormon friends is expanded by being a Mormon. Really? When I was a missionary, I spent my time with far more people who weren't LDS than those who were. And a huge chunk of that was service time, not proselyting time. Organized religion DOES help people break from TVs, computers and smart phones, and interact more with humans, including those with different beliefs.

    Those who distrust organized religion are often resentful of a) certain people in that church or b) being told what to believe or how to live. Fair enough. No one enjoys being hurt or commanded by others. Sadly, some tend to dismiss the strong, wonderful relationships with others and write-off the amazing things churches accomplish, preferring instead to trivialize or demonize organized belief as beneath them.

    Of course, to each his own. Most organized faiths teach about choices and free will as a gift from God. I just wish those who choose to go it on their own would resist the temptation to dismiss or denigrate organized churches and those who attend simply because they're "organized."

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    June 10, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    The Deuce says in another way, 'If you don't like it you can leave'.

  • SoCalChris Riverside, CA
    June 10, 2012 1:46 p.m.

    Thinkman,

    How can you follow Christ's teachings without following His teachings? He clearly set up a Church organization with Priesthood leadership and intended that we follow all His commandments, e.g., among others, being baptized and keeping the Sabbath Day holy, and not just the 8 very important items on your list.

    Bramabull,

    I understand the sentiment you express about the weightier matters of the law, and agree to an extent, but I've seen too many people lose direction in their life adopting that attitude. The scriptures are clear that BOTH personal worthiness and service to others are necessary. "Pure religion and undefiled before God and the Father is this, To visit the fatherless and widows in their affliction, AND to keep himself unspotted from the world." For whatever reason, for LDS, the WOW is a part of keeping oneself unspotted from the world.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    June 10, 2012 7:25 p.m.

    You don't need a building or rituals or the perpetual cash flow problem religion has to have a relationship with Christ.

  • 1aggie SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    June 11, 2012 12:15 a.m.

    Big church= big business. Bigger church = bigger business. When churches start publishing financials and disclosing the extent of their holdings (and how much is benifitting the poor and needy) then I'll be happy.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 11, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    There would be no Christianity today if Jesus lacked the courage to question religious authority and challenge much of the faith of his fathers as it had been taught to him. When he said that one had to lose his life in order to find it, I suspect he was speaking from personal experience. It’s a phenomenon that’s common to converts to the LDS Church and to life-long Mormons who discover on their journey through life that Mormonism is but one small part of a much larger cosmos.

    ‘Judge not, lest ye be judged,’ Jesus taught. Yet for 2,000 years, the religion that proclaims Jesus as Lord and Savior has often been a harshly judgmental religion. What a shame that his words continue to be lost on those who have no ears to hear.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    June 11, 2012 11:25 a.m.

    UtahBlueDevil wrote:

    "if missionaries do what they are supposed to do, they are not to disparage the beliefs of those they are teaching.... if they do speak negatively of another religion, then they are not teaching how they are supposed to."

    The core of Mormonism is that it is the "Restored Gospel". There is no need for a "Restoration" unless there was an "Apostasy".

    How can anyone teach that all other religions are "Apostate" without disparaging the beliefs of those they are teaching?

    This kind of doublespeak will not win Mormons any friends worth having. It is transparent nonsense.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    June 11, 2012 12:16 p.m.

    A Scientist, "...How can anyone teach that all other religions are "Apostate" without disparaging the beliefs of those they are teaching?"

    It's like a newspaper that must 'stand by its story' when the story has become its burden. Mormonism has invested too much in the apostasy explanation to abandon it now and still save face. But give Joseph Smith a break. He was drawing on common Christian terminology of his time.

    Actually, the so-called Great Apostasy is not far off from Martin Luther's take in calling the Church of Rome a paganized corruption. The way I see it, as Rome absorbed the early church, the early church absorbed Rome. I call that cultural assimilation. So might Martin Luther and Joseph Smith had they been writing with 21st century hindsight.

  • BlueEyesBrittany Paris, 00
    June 11, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    I agree that we must preserve christianity at all costs..... abandonment of christian principles and teachings has led this world into distructions of moral principles and good attitudes.....and this world is becoming worse and worse by the day.

    I too am returning to church (the LDS often and sometimes the catholic church) ..... and it has refocused my live because i meet very nice people and i love the focus of the church on strong families, virtuous and righteous living and healthy lifestyles.

  • A Scientist Provo, UT
    June 11, 2012 3:05 p.m.

    "we must preserve Christianity at all costs"...

    This is the fanatic thinking that results in "costs" such as the destruction of lives, property, freedoms, and especially those who do not agree with or believe in (your version of) Christianity.

    This is a very dangerous attitude.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    June 11, 2012 8:51 p.m.

    A Scientist...not sure what to say.... if you choose to take an adversarial view of discussions of religious beliefs, there is not much I can do about it. I think two or more reasonable people can discuss topics of faith without having to believe you need to put down the other.

    But, hey, what do I know. When science can answer all the questions, then we can all decide to abandon faith and trust in the scientist to have perfect knowledge. Until that point, "faith" will be required and the debate will continue, hopefully in civil terms.

    Hows that whole "proving" global warming thing coming along? And Pluto... planet or not... at what point is science at "fact", and when is it an evolving theory?