My only hope with this is that it is not used to suggest to others "we are
better than you, we attend more, we have better families, etc." but rather
to suggest "despite what others tell about you, here's who we really are,
what we really believe, etc."I read everything in here with a
positive light. It's up to everyone else to make that same choice. We also
choose how we share it. Comparing 'our percentage' to 'the rest of America'
might seem a bit forthcoming, but in actuality it can indeed serve the purpose
of saying- "The rest of the politically charged media, hateful groups,
critics, etc. are telling you that we are 'less Christian' or 'not' or less
religious or less anything- but the truth is that we are far more than what they
have represented us to be." -again, the use of the data this way is a far
more tactful approach from those sharing it and a more open-minded approach from
those receiving it. We all know what kind of comments we'll see on here anyway,
but I've approached this data fairly. It's not unreasonable for me to expect
similar high standards from others.
@ A voice of reasonI don't agree with your self-glossed screen name.
Rainbow,I thought the comment by A voice of Reason was articulate
and well thought out. If more who commented took things in a positive light,
the discussions on these message boards would be an enjoyable experience.
Criticizing a perosn based solely on their screen name doesn't lend anything
towards your credibility as a critic.I believe the Church is simply
trying to present the beliefs of the LDS Church in a manner that is not
judgemental, but instead highlights something unique offered to all mankind.
Full-on double rainbow,If you read the definition of the word
"reason", or according to common practice in the entire
debate/philosophy world- you'll find that it primarily is used to state
"explainable through reason", not to state "I am right". I state
my beliefs and support them through reason. I am not always right and like
everyone else I make mistakes. But I have beliefs and real experiences and I can
rationally explain them. You can disagree with those beliefs according to your
desire to- but disagreeing with an attitude you inferred in my screen-name
logically equates to "disagreeing with yourself". At best, you disagree
with something that "isn't there" and then there is no disagreement at
all.Either way, I have proven that my screen-name didn't mean what
you inferred it to mean. There is only so much you can accomplish when each
comment someone makes is fighting anything and everything LDS. Rather than
always try to find something wrong- one has just as much of a choice presented
them to look at the positive, look for good in others, and so on. We can't be
justified until we make that our intent.
As a non-member of the LDS faith, I took the opportunity to read through hte
article and learned quite a bit about the religion. If more people took a few
minutes to read this, there would be less confusion about who Mormon's are.
I think that this is a very good idea. Now if we can just get
Mormons to read it.
The Deuce, sorry to tell you, but if you only read through the Mormonism 101:
FAQ you have learned very little from that source that's accurate about the LDS
Church. I have never read as blatant a whitewash from any large organization as
Great article and great info...I especially like CHRIST CENTERED.
Mormonism 101 is awesome! awesome! awesome! To those that help with that effort,
This is a great site. Very informative. Reason ... I enjoy your
Mr Walker-I challenge your choice of words: "with a healthy dose of Broadway
glitz".It was hardly healthy. It was offensive to both
Mormons--and Ugandans. While it WAS disguised as glitz, it was nothing
more than mocking and insulting.
RE: Jesus Christ is the Savior of the world and the[literal] Son of our loving
Heavenly Father.The Deuce, As a non-member of the LDS faith,If more people
took a few minutes to read this, there would be less confusion about who
Mormon's are. OK,The ÂpaleÂ of Christianity believes the birth
of Jesus was a unique miracle by the Holy Spirit/Ghost, same Greek
word(Pneuma).Joseph Fielding Smith, ÂThey tell us that the BoM
states that Jesus was begotten of the Holy Ghost. I challenge that statement.
The BoM teaches No Such Thing! Neither does the Bible!Â(Doctrines of
SalvationA precious and chosen vessel, who shall be overshadowed and
conceive by the power of the Holy Ghost and bring forth a son yea, even the Son
of God. ( Alma 7:10) . The Holy Ghost shall come upon thee, and the
power of the Highest shall overshadow thee: therefore also that holy thing which
shall be born of thee shall be called the Son of God.(Luke 1:35 KJV) .
Northern Lights & Moontan,I appreciate the friendly words. I
need to make more of an effort to state what I find good in other people's
posts.Mark,You're absolutely right. This isn't the best
way or source to read to learn about this church. If you really want to learn
what we believe, the Book of Mormon is a better and the most accurate source. If
you want to know how we act on those beliefs, then (with taking into account our
being imperfect, of course... as we all are) then going to an LDS church on
Sunday for the full Sunday block, attending a general conference, and meeting
several members from several different backgrounds, from several parts of the
world- this would be an adequate way to learn about the church.I
have spent my far from perfect life learning about good principles. I haven't
done nearly as much good as I could have- but in every step I take to learn from
the church, I've only found the most wonderful doctrines which preach
forgiveness, repentance, and ultimately a plan of happiness.Not
everyone will learn about the church this way, but it is the best way to know.
Basic Religion is very simple. Basic Mormonism is No different. The
problem is getting the Members or Masses to understand the Basics.Members and Non Members will Debate 101. Debate is good as long as that in the
end it does not change the Basic.Some people like to keep things in
the dark the main reasons being.They have not read and do not know
themselves.They are a fried that if investigators learn to much they
will find something they do not like and leave. Open Conflict with a
Value as stated by the Church. Lack of knowledge leads to Urban and
Rural Myth which I separate because they are sometimes different.Example: Some things are considered to be not Moral, however the Church has No
Stand On them (mostly because the leaders can't wrap their mind around the
concept or it has just never come up). However there is No Scripture to back
things up either way and it is left up to the individuals involved. A Sort of
Free Agency.101 is fine but some people will need 095 first.Part of me thinks that the Articles Of Faith are and where enough.
All one really needs to do is to take and study the Gospel Principles as
outlined in that book/study guide. That really spells out the basic truths of
the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. Sure there are some skeletons
that many members don't understand and don't want to understand. However, the
information put forth by many critics of the Church of Jesus Chrsit of
Latter-Day Saints are either half truths or out right lies tied to some truth.
This perpetuates the lies and thus some say well it is whitewashed.As voice of reason states,come and see for yourself and see the truth. Bring
the truth you have and we will add to that truth in a way that will bring
greater happiness to you and to your family. Those who argue and critize do so
either with an axe to grind or because they have lost the will to decipher the
With all the confusion among non-Mormon Christians, who mistakenly think Mormons
do not believe Christ is God, and in light of all the latter-day scriptures (and
hymns) that do affirm the divinity of Christ, why does this
"Christ-centered" news release fail to go the last step and acknowledge
that Mormons do, in fact, affirm Christ's Godhood?
I don't agree with the graph saying "100% of sacramental worship services
that focus on Jesus Christ."What was their measuring stick? First off, unless they've been to every meeting, every congregation the
claim is unrealistic. Secondly, I can think of many sacrament meetings
where the only mention of Jesus was in the prayers. My least favorite
meetings are the "sales" meetings instructing members about the
mechanics of doing missionary work. I can think of many other examples, but
won't enumerate further. My hope is they will revise that
ridiculous statement and that congregations will focus more on the life and
teachings of Jesus.
Mark, you are right on re: the whitewash. I don't understand why the SLC
leaders are reticent about sharing unvarnished Mormonism 101. Do they consider
it embarrassing, unbiblical, skeptical, unhistorical? I don't get it, because
it is very easy to define and easy to see where it differs from Biblical
doctrines.My Mormon grandparents would be horrified at the lack of
clarity and ownership on the doctrines. I have been speaking at churches and
teaching on the differences between Mormonism and textual, Biblical Christianity
for 26 years and it never gets difficult to agree on the distinctions. We don't
agree on validity, but we do agree that there's little parity.
TruthseekerSLO, CAI don't agree with the graph saying "100% of
sacramental worship services that focus on Jesus Christ."If they
had said "100% of sacrament meeting", I would agree with you. However, I
believe they are referring to the actual sacramental ordinance (or worship
service). The administration and partaking of the sacrament is Christ-centered.
The rest of the meeting is adjunct to the actual sacrament service, and no one
believes that the entire meeting is focused on Jesus Christ. It should be, but
unfortunately isn't. Still, you bring up a good point. Perhaps this
could have been articulated a bit better.
Hugh< if you have to keep explaining something, you certainly don't
represent it. Mormonism has some issues.
To Truthseeker: What is missionary work, except to proclaim the Gospel of Jesus
Christ. All sacrament meetings are geared to become better disciples of the
Lord Jesus Christ. The way the message is presented depends on the speaker
themselves. For those who think it idffers and isn't about Jesus Christ need to
really sit back and take notes on what is actually said. I've attended
sacrament meetings for thrity years and one time I thought the same until I
actually sit back and pushed my OWN agenda out the window. When I did that all
of the meetings centered entirely on the Savior Jesus Christ. Whether the talk
is on Joseph Smith, the Book of Mormon, how to be a better missionary are all
centered on Jesus Christ. The problem is that many only listen to what they
want to hear not what is being said. These are not professional speakers but to
me that is the joy of sacrament meeting.Also everything about the
Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day is biblical. It just depends on whose
intepretation one wants to believe.
re: Bill in Nebraska What I often do is sit back and imagine I am
attending church as a non-member. What messages are being given that makes me
want to return? I can guarantee you if the meeting focused on how to convert
others, it would the last meeting I attended. I remember one such meeting where
there were some non-members in the congregation. They left before the closing
song. On the other hand, if the topic of the meeting focused on avoiding
judgmentalism or being charitable, honest, kind, humble, benevolent etc. I
would return for more. I do appreciate the non-professional speakers,
especially those that share their own personal journey and struggles. We'll have to agree to disagree on this issue.
Bill in Nebraska- I'd love to add to what you shared.The Book of
Mormon clearly explains how many rebelled against God's prophets to be a law
unto themselves- justifying themselves, their actions and desires, etc.I believe that when people fight God's true church, prophets, etc. it is to
'be the right answer' and justify themselves instead of 'learn the right answer'
and in humility improve themselves. All my experiences stand as evidence in my
own life to support this. Every time I set aside how I currently understand or
feel about things and am willing to listen and learn, I receive answers that
fill that desire to know. If we live right and continually receive revelation
then the very nature of what revelation is would stand alone as evidence that
our faith is "Christ-centered". Even though 4 prayers are offered in His
name in the sacrament meeting alone and the sacrament itself is more than
adequate evidence. Although 1000 reasons won't convince anyone but those willing
to listen.We all know one has to be willing to listen in order to
understand- yet people deny it for convenience, all in the name of fighting the
OMGoodness! What an incomplete and misleading site. My LDS neighbors just
about fainted. Yes, they believe they can become Gods of their own worlds-
through Eternal Progression. Yes, they believe plural marriage will be the
option in the CelestialKingdom. Yes, they believe that All other churches
have No priesthood authority. Yes, Joseph is their "Mohammed", so to
speak.When I gave them the 3rd definition of a cult, they agreed
with the moniker from its Biblical context. The father is in a bishopric and
says "Utah Mormons are too sensitive and apologetic. California Mormons
have to be accurate, bold and own our religion. Otherwise they'll smell fear
and pounce."Get on the same page folks.
@A voice of Reason: "If you really want to learn what we believe, the Book
of Mormon is a better and the most accurate source."The Book of
Mormon is a poor source for learning what Mormons believe. It's mostly about
wars and rumors of wars. The story of its origin is the intriguing part.
@LVIS: The rest of the meeting is adjunct to the actual sacrament service, and
no one believes that the entire meeting is focused on Jesus Christ. It should
be, but unfortunately isn't."There is only so much can be said
about Jesus Christ... He died for the sins of the world, was resurrected and
ascended into heaven. That's it. It'd be a very uninteresting meeting if
that's all that was talked about.
@Tzadikim:"Yes, they believe they can become Gods of their own
worlds- through Eternal Progression."That's what is meant by
being sons and daughters of God, as the Bible proclaims. To inherit all that
God has. How else can it be taken?"Yes, they believe plural
marriage..."As did some ancient prophets such as Jacob who had
four wives... family called 'House of Israel. If it's good enough for him it
surely must be good enough for others."Yes, they believe that
All other churches have No priesthood authority."Probably the
only church that believes priesthood authority to act for God is given by God
and not conferred by a divinity school diploma."Yes, Joseph is
their 'Mohammed,' so to speak."Not even close... Mohammed
advocated force and coercion, akin to terrorism. Smith used love, kindness, and
@ Bill in NebYou have attempted to move the goalpost. Being
Christ-centered and being "focused on Jesus Christ" are completely
different things. Truthseeker is correct; the graphic is
misleading. A meeting on obedience to the commandments, for example, is not
"focused on Jesus Christ". Neither is a meeting on missionary work, or
temple attendance (meetings on missionary work are focused on missionary work
and meetings on temple attendance are focused on temple attendance). It doesn't feel right to me when my church misleads and doesn't tell the whole
truth It should bother you too.
1aggie: Again I will state what is missionary work and the purpose of it: TO
bring all to Jesus Christ. What is temple work, but to redeem the dead, to
bring them to Christ. It is in the temple that an individual can even come
close to what Jesus Christ did for all mankind. When members try to say it
isn't centered in Christ it is because they are expecting it to be all about
Christ. However, all of the work the Church does is because of Jesus Christ.
It is because of Christ and not man. We as a membership need to listen more
carefully to what is said. When someone says this bishopric member was ill at
ease is basically deriding their faith with some false pretense. Truthseeker
stated that a member of another faith was attending and left before the meeting
was over. How does he know they left because of what was said other than his
own belief.I thought the same thing once and asked the missionaries.
Found out an emergency came up and they left. They didn't end being baptized
but it wasn't what was said.