So much for the promise of free health care - another democrat lie and the
inability of the ACA to provide health care to the poor.
@JSF The ACA is modeled nearly exactly to the early 1990's program designed
by Republicans. Of equal importance, the healthcare is not free, it's
I can't say I'm surprised that those most adversely affected by this
ruling are the low to middle income people, the very segment of society that
healthcare reform is supposed to be helping. Must change always come so slowly
for those most in need who have already waited too long? Martin Luther King used
to remind us, justice delayed is justice denied. Some seem to like it that way.
JSF - The extraordinarily complicated ACA does seem to have a hard time
providing healthcare to the poor. I agree. This Republican/Conservative plan
dreamed up by the Heritage Foundation just isn't that great. It essentially
institutionalizes insurance companies that siphon 20% of every healthcare dollar
away from people that need it.You know what is worse? Healthcare
delivery prior to the ACA. You know what is better? The liberal
plan to expand Medicaid to everyone who needs it. This is also known as the
single-payor plan. It is the most cost-effective way to insure the poor. For
anyone who has ever been on Medicaid, it sucks. Trust me. It is the toilet bowl
of health insurance. But the great thing about it is that it provides healthcare
to thousands upon thousands of people who desperately need it.
@jsfIf you read the article you'd see that the issue is a
technicality where the law talks about state exchanges so the issue is that many
states didn't set up their own exchanges.
Single payer was, and is still, the only viable option. The bloody ACA is a
nightmare.Maybe, if we're lucky, we can go with the
Republicans' well thought out solution to the healthcare crisis.Oh wait...
The issue was and is the belief that we must pass it to know what is in it. I
support health care for the poor, but, this was never it. I was suppose to be
in the middle class, but with the ACA I now can't afford the procedures my
doctors tell me I need to maintain my health. "modeled nearly
exactly to the early 1990's program designed by Republicans" And it
was bad news then and it is bad news now. I love when democrat apologists tell
us their legislation is based on bad republican legislation back then. They are
telling us the democrats can't and haven't come up with anything new
since the 1990's. It was so bad then democrats didn't
pass it in the 1990s, and republicans won't support it now. Mitt Romney's plan democrats tell us is what the ACA was modeled after,
credit is given to the republican, and again the democrats tell us it's
good. Then it is a republican plan not a democrat plan. The democrats still
can't come up with their own plan or anything new. It is always a
republican mess they perpetuate.
"healthcare is not free, it's subsidized" That is free they
don't pay for it. But not free in 36 states."This is also
known as the single-payer plan. It is the most cost-effective way to insure the
poor" And that works well for the VA. As my father a veteran of WWII says,
the only reason any person goes to the VA is to die. Cost-effective in that
there is no care. And the problem of no care for the poor continues. And don't site UK and Canadian systems, All you have to do is watch
their comedy spoofs to know how well they really work.
And before you attempt to discount my fathers opinion of the VA, he was shot
during the landing on New Britain, spent three years having surgeries on his
legs, last time in the VA was 1957, he vowed he would never go back unless he
expected to die. They haven't got it right in 57 years and liberals think
the government can handle it now. Don't let government do anything with
your personal care.
jsf,"....I love when democrat apologists tell us their
legislation is based on bad republican legislation back then...."______________________________Mitt Romney thought it was great for
Massachusetts, didn’t he? He just couldn’t explain why the
Massachusetts plan was bad for America when Obama adopted it as his model. Not
that anyone really expected Mitt to when he was after the job held by Obama.I won’t even listen to Republican criticisms of the ACA now. Back
when their input was actively sought by the White House, the sole focus of GOP
strategy was to oppose any and all healthcare reform ideas the President
proposed or was open to negotiating with GOP Congressional leadership.
No one is to blame for this except for Obama and his closed door meetings with
the house and senate democrats who cooked up this mess.........It's all smoke and mirrors........no one is going to give you free
healthcare......no one!You are going to have to man up and start
taking care of your own family and quit thinking Obama is going to provide for
you.....This ruling will surely make it back the scotus and they
will reaffirm it...Obamacare will be overturned! And Obamacare will
go down as the most costly mistake in political history!
As we have seen for the past 2+ years, we are getting the results of a
half-baked, government handout program that wasn't paid for. Its a sad
sack, doomed to fail program, put together by leftist elites, who were
determined to go forward no matter what, and completely without GOP input. As
you may recall, the GOP was told to get to the back of the bus and shut up,
because bho and his sorry band of fools were in charge now. So for 2 years king
bho, the courts and most other government agencies have been scrambling to fix
the mess they all created. You can pretend this was originally a GOP
program, but not exactly. It was never voted on as legislation or supported by
the GOP majority. Most Republicans opposed it back in the 90's. The GOP
plan wasn't 4000 pages, and didn't include many of the provision that
obamacare has. You can pretend it was Romney's plan also, but he vetoed it
before signing it into law, after having it forced on him by the legislature.
@jsf and TRUTHSubsidies aren't free healthcare (that'd be more
like the Medicaid expansion, which is a separate issue). We're talking
about middle class families who have a portion of their insurance costs covered.
Those are the people (in the 36 states that didn't set up their own
exchanges) who'd be affected if the plaintiffs in this case get their way.
This is fabulous news! Now all the people who finally have health care can be
thrown off and won't be taking up space at my doctor's office.
Freedom has won!! More for me, and that's what really matters. This is a
day to celebrate -- the day that the evil Obamacare was finally vanquished and
things can be the way they were meant to be -- no health care for the good for
nothing, lazy, probably immoral (or they would be wealthy, like me) working
poor. Oh, it's a good day to be a righteous, generous, God-fearing
conservative like me.
By the way, this lawsuit wouldn't get rid of Obamacare, all it would do is
skyrocket insurance rates for middle class people/families in the 36 states that
didn't set up their own exchanges. Why is this something you all want? Oh
right, anything that could look bad for Obama is good to you, regardless of who
gets thrown under the bus along the way. Of course a state could just set up its
own exchange then, and Congress could just pass a bill to adjust it to include
the federal exchange, but Republicans don't have an interest in helping
middle class families.
@jsf"And don't site UK and Canadian systems, All you have
to do is watch their comedy spoofs to know how well they really work."Well that settles it then, who needs statistics and reports!
@jsf -- The VA is not a single payer plan. It's a single provider. A
Medicare equivalent is what people were talking about when they wanted single
payer. The day any elderly conservative gives up his Medicare will be the day I
will listen when he says anything negative about a single payer system.
HaHaHaHa,"....You can pretend it was Romney's plan also,
but he vetoed it before signing it into law, after having it forced on him by
the legislature...."______________________________I prefer
to let Mitt Romney speak for himself."They’re talking
about it on the federal level, we actually did something. And we did it without
cutting Medicare and raising taxes.""So you’re saying,
'Look at Romneycare?'" Wallace interjected."Absolutely. I am very proud of what we did, and the fact that we helped
women and men and children in our state."(Mitt Romney to Chris
Wallace in an interview with Fox News aired on August 26, 2012)
Uh Oh, this could be a real obummer.
JSFI have had been very happy with the private health care policy
that I have had for six years. The policy does not meet ACA requirements (high
deductible, no birth control and etc.), but it is grandfathered, so the ACA has
had little effect on us. The only changes we have noticed to date is that the
insurance company has been required to send us an annual refund the last two
years, because the ACA limits insurance company profits to 15% on private
plans.My question for you is: How has the ACA impacted your health
care policy so that you are now unable to afford procedures which you could have
afforded before the new legislation?
RE: Floyd JohnsonHope you don't mind me cutting in.How has the ACA impacted me? Well, my full-time job was cut to 28 hours so I
was unable to pay for my last year of school. So I had to take out a student
loan in a financially risky time. My wife just got a job that's 28
hours/week too, instead of a 40-hour week. So our monthly budget essentially
took a 25% blow and our debt shot up over $10,000.That's what
the ACA did to me.
I don't know much about medicaid but I tried to help a friend in Utah with
a problem with her medicaid. What a nightmare it was. Just to talk to someone on
the phone I was put on hold for over 30 minutes! The question was just a little
detail and was easily resolved. I thought, what does someone do if there is a
more complex problem? Health care was a problem before Obamacare, but the
solution to the problem is worse than what we had before. I think the real
motive for Obamacare is that if people are kept on hold long enough, they will
give up and die. Thus removing one more person from government health care.
The reason that this ACA was not passed in the 90's was that people
understood that it was a bad plan because it did not make healthcare affordable.
The only thing it really does for most of the people is provide subsidized
insurance coverage with deductibles that you may or may not be able to pay. For
the truly poor it provides a larger base for Medicaid coverage which can still
leave you with costs that you must pick up on your own.
The Federal Government took over the job of setting up exchanges in 34 states
that didn’t comply with a clearly stated ACA provision. That sent the
wrong message. Maybe the Justice Department should have dutifully taken those
non-complying states to Federal Court.
Only the party of the man who found the meaning of the words "is" and
"sex" ambiguous could argue with a straight face that "established
by the state" means "established by the state, or maybe the federal
government too if we feel like it."To a postmodern left-liberal,
law and truth are outdated, quaint concepts.
Apparently the Democrats didn't even read their own law.No one
Republican was allowed to see this bill before they had to vote on it (from the
most transparent administration in US History).No doctor was
consulted about Obama Care (all doctors in congress are Republicans).Obama has made dozens of changes to the law, without going through congress.
All are just as valid as his Photoshopped birth certificate.
Progressives, Democrats, and liberals love to talk about justice. where is the
justice of having the government rip money out of your pocket to pay for someone
else's coverage, usually by someone not willing to work for it in the first
place. Is "justice" a word only used by someone wanting to steal from
someone's else's hard work? To steal is just, but to request that you
are allowed to keep what you have earned or to make your own choice is not just!
How foolish, ignorant, and selfish some people can be!
So if this result goes through then it'd be like the Medicaid expansion.
All 50 states pay in ACA taxes but only the half or so that have the Medicaid
expansion get the funding for it, and if this lawsuit prevails all 50 states pay
in ACA taxes for the subsidies but only 14 states, at the moment, would be
getting that subsidy money. That'd establish a massive difference in
healthcare outcomes between states solely of the choosing of the state
governments to not set up their own exchanges or taking the Medicaid expansion
Through this entire process I don't think I have ever once heard a
Republican make a concerned and well founded plea for those who were previously
left out of the health insurance market. There truly is only one
solution to a comprehensive health insurance market where everyone is covered
and everyone has payment responsibilities and that is a single payer system.
Nothing else will ever be civil, equitable, and effective.
Light and Liberty -- There you conservatives go again, demonizing the poor. I
realize that in your world view only the lazy and immoral cannot afford health
care. However, in the real world there are lots of people making minimum wage
or barely above who have a really hard time affording to go to the doctor. They
are not lazy and they don't deserve the venom that is spewed at them by the
"Christian" tea party. I realize that the single most important
objective of the far right is not giving up one penny of their money, but many
of us prefer to live in a civilized society where even the "least of
these" is not treated like trash.
Glad to see Republicans nobly fighting to the very end to make sure poor people
don't get health care.
The Rock:Leaving aside the fact that you appear to be a birther,
which damages your credibility, I'll contend this point: "No doctor was consulted about Obama Care (all doctors in congress are
Republicans)."These types of things are so easy to disprove
it's almost laughable. The law was reviewed and endorsed by the American
Medical Association, the American College of Physicians, the American Academy of
Family Physicians, the American Academy of Pediatrics, the American Osteopathic
Association, the American Psychiatric Association, and the American College of
Cardiology. -----Light&Liberty: "where is the
justice of having the government rip money out of your pocket to pay for someone
else's coverage,"You mean like taxes to support firemen,
policemen, and the military? While I rarely call the police, it is better for
the community at large to have them. Likewise, it was determined that providing
access to the community to healthcare, rather than relying on subsidized ER
visits, benefits society at large.
So if we get pulled over for speeding and we tell the officer that we intended
to follow the speed limit will that get us out of a ticket? I don't think
so. In school when you take a test and you get and answer wrong and you tell
the teacher you intended to pick the right answer do they mark it right? I
don't think so. When you come home on your anniversary and you tell you
wife that intended to bring her flowers even though you didn't is that the
same as bringing her flowers?.... I don't think so. In baseball if you
intend to hit the ball but don't actually hit the ball does it count as
hitting it? I don't think so. So if our government passes a law and then
says that they intended it to be different from what it reads why would they
think that we can count intentions as the same as actions. Isn't there a
saying about a road leading somewhere that is paved with good intentions?
@jsf says "I support health care for the poor" Did you
lobby your governor to accept the Medicaid expansion?"I was
suppose to be in the middle class" You were
"supposed" to? Who told you this? And what class are you in instead?
"but with the ACA I now can't afford the procedures my
doctors tell me I need to maintain my health." And you
could afford them before? What are these "procedures"? What do you
think the solution is?@HaHaHa wrote "..completely without GOP
input". HaHa, the GOP input into Obamacare consisted of one
word--"No". They NEVER gave any sort of alternative suggestions --the
only goal was to kill the bill. Foolishly, some good provisions (single payer,
for one) were dropped in the attempt to compromise. But how do you compromise
with "no"? Anyway, the final bill was the best that the president
thought would pass. And it did. Now if the GOP wants to put some effort into a
bill to replace Obamacare--something that they think will work better---they can
do that. Or they can keep wasting tax dollars doing the same stuff over and
I heard it said once......"It is hard to talk yourself out of problems you
behaved yourself into." Seems to apply to the healthcare law. The
Democrats passed a law that they openly admitted to not reading first. Now they
want us to interpret it based on what they say they intended to do vs. what they
actually wrote into law. If we were all measured by what we intend to do vs
what we actually do everyone would be an A student, employee of the month,arrive
on time to church and be in great shape. wouldn't it be nice if we had
performance reviews based on what we intended to do. At some point Democrats
must accept responsibility for what they actually did and not keep trying to
blame the republicans for it.
There are pieces of the ACA that make sense and will benefit many un/under
insured. But nothing is free. Someone has to pay for all the subsidies. My
company has always provided a very strong health insurance plan for all of our
employees. With the passage of the ACA, my company is now being hit with the
"Cadillac Tax" The cadillac tax is imposed on companies who provide
good quality insurance plans for their employees. Last year we spent $1M on
health benefits, next year it will be $1.4M including the cadillac tax. This
tax is one of the secrets of the ACA no one talked about. Amazing that the ACA
penalizes the very companies who provide solid health insurance benefits.
Is anyone really surprised at all that this President and his party could care
less what ANY law actually says? He has been repeatedly backhanded by the
Supreme Court and now these Appellate Courts. I believe he thinks he is still a
"Community Organizer" back in Chicago, making things up as he
goes--regardless of the US Constitution or statutory laws . . . What a great
thing for Americans who think they are citizens of the greatest and most
powerful country in the world.
@ LP Grad BYU AlumWow! Sounds like you have a really bad employer.
Perhaps you should talk to him/her about your hours. Perhaps your
wife should stop complaining about her hours and be grateful for just having a
job. Many of us have had to adjust to the tough economy. Why should you be any
different?Instead of blaming the government for everything, why not
take responsibility for your own life and find a better job?
It is amusing, if not discouraging, to see progressives view self reliance and
liberty as unjust and unfair. For them, liberty only means taking money from
someone and redistributing it to someone else, which doesn't even address
the issue and failure that Socialized medicine has had upon the poor! Yet, over
and ever, we here this simplistic response, just like all other government
programs that will quick fix the lack of charity by progressives who want to
delegate real charity to the government in the absence of taking responsibility
for providing real help to the poor and indigent! Conservatives, and Christians
in general, overwhelmingly give more than their liberal and atheistic
counterparts and also advocate policies that will far and away lift the poor to
a better station, while preserving liberty for themselves and future
generations! It is puzzling that some who think of America in terms of
selfishness and greed, rather than opportunity and liberty for all. The zero
sum view of America is why we are even discussing ACA! Instead of looking
through the lens of fear, try seeing America as a place that all can succeed
without government's approval!
The point should be made that this ruling is based on a minor technicality and
will have no impact on the ACA itself. The split decision will be overturned on
The DC court ruled on what the law SAYS; the Richmond court ruled on what they
thought it SHOULD have said, essentially re-writing the law – in other
words, legislating from the bench, which is wrong.mcdugall,
spangsObamacare was written mostly by Max Bacchus (D). It garnered NO GOP
votes. The offending language “exchanges established by the states”
was written and passed by dems. Only in their wildest fantasies can dems blame
this monstrosity on the GOP.Craig,If this does not help the
poor, blame those who passed it – all dems. Romneycare did NOT have
“exchanges established by the states” in it – sorry, citing
Romney is off-base – you do not support him anyway.Obamacare
does NOT require states to set up exchanges – by what authority would you
have the injustice department force something not required?Ralph,Sorry you are ignorant of the GOP plan – too much MSNBC for you!Schnee, PragmatistCosts for the poor will skyrocket because the
DEMS require all to have insurance but DEMS did not provide a proper way for all
to pay for it. DEMS threw those people under the bus
Since this is likely to end up in the Supreme Court, it will be interesting to
see if the justices would vote the same way. Particularly Roberts, as he was
the swing for ACA. And BTW the term Affordable is turning out to not be the
case for many who don't qualify but have to pay the increased money to
support their private health plan. This is only affordable for people who
don't pay for it anyway. Bad bill, passed under questionable legality,
with no partisanship. Yet the same Democrats now cry they want partisanship
from Republicans in passing all the other Obama/amnesty/tax increasing/debt
increasing/military reducing/welfare increasing/socialist stuff. How stupid
could the Republicans be to fall for that? Thankfully, at this point, not
Wonder,Who PAYS for the VA? A single PAYER! And no one is demonizing the
poor. Why do you resort to putting words into people’s mouths?OHBU,This is a dem monstrosity, you cannot blame the GOP because the dem
law is hurting the poor.Laura,“The GOP can come along if
they want, but they’ll have to ride in the back” The GOP was given
NO opportunity for input. NONE. They were told they could vote for it, that is
allAtlas,The hours were cut BECAUSE of Obamacare – same
for millions of others across the country.
RE: Atlas SmashedSo let me get this straight...my wife and I should
go find better employers because we're not getting the salaries we were
before the ACA? Is that right?Then why do you reject
conservatives' arguments that those without healthcare should go find
better employers who will provide them some, instead of government forcing
employers under the ACA? If I'm able to simply switch jobs on a whim to
get better benefits/salary, how come others are not? Do you tell the lower
classes the same thing you told me before handing them subsidies? "Just go
find a better job!" You're rejecting my arguments using the same
arguments that conservatives make all the time. Ironic, huh?The
question was proffered: how has the ACA impacted you. I answered it honestly,
that it has increased my debt and lowered my salary. I'm no better than
others, but objectively speaking, the ACA was a huge disservice to me.
Taking money from a person, without permission, and giving it to someone else,
is theft. Stealing!No matter how you spin it, it's theft, and
wrong. Political leaders may make villians of responsible, and, working people,
but it's still stealing.Why do our citizens except this
practice? Where do subsidies come from?--Stolen money is ok with Obama?
"millions of consumers will keep getting financial aid for their premiums
— billions of dollars in all "this simply isn't right
or fair. Millions get free or reduced premiums while millions more middle class
Americans who saw their premiums go up have to foot the bill. This is the ugly
face of wealth redistibution and it is the middle class - not the rich - who are
paying to support all the dead weight in this country.
Looking forward to the collapse of the dollar, when people will finally wake up
and realize that they have been played by both parties. Why not demand that
federal employees and congress members have to be insured under the ACA? The
ACA was never about healthcare it was about collecting fees to finance a broke
govt. With the high deductible, people will be paying for routine healthcare
costs out of pocket. And, it was never the intention to give subsidies through
the federal exchange, it was written as is to put pressure on States to set up
their own exchanges. Once more, Obama is trying to make his own rules.