We The People one, big government zero
I understand the desire to avoid a tragic injury or death resulting from this
even but I dont see how this is much different that allowing a person not to pay
income taxes becuase they claim the constitution doesnt specifically allow for
that. I know the BLM issues rules that people dont like but how can
Republicans claim the importance of "rule of law" in immigration cases,
but support this rancher when he doesnt obey he rule of law by not paying his
legitamate grazing fees? If those fees werent paid soon I would
think this rancher has forfeted any "right" he had to graze cattle on
Public land.I guess we will see what the BJM comes up with.
It seems a bit hypocritical of Bundy to cite his Mormon ancestors and then flout
the law by not paying the Federal Government for grazing his cattle of federal
land as many law abiding citizens have done so for many many years. His Mormon
ancestors must be very upset by his disobeying the law of the land which is one
of the 13 Articles of Faith central to the beliefs of the Church of Jesus
Christ of Latter-Day Saints. He is certainly not living up to the beliefs of
The BLM has many disputes to fix.
Anarchists/Law Breakers 1: USA 0
Can I drive cattle down an interstate freeway anytime I so desire? No. Can I
skip paying my property taxes because the school district those taxes support
was created after my ancestors first established residences here? No. Can I
use the airport landing strips for a drivers education school that I want to run
as my business and interfere with airport operations? No. Can I dump toxic
waste on public or private land to avoid the cost of disposing of it properly?
No. All of those actions are illegal. When it comes to Mr. Bundy's
default on grazing fees and the actions of his self-appointed militia, what part
of illegal doesn't he and his militia understand?
This isn't about the grazing fees. It's about a decades-long bid by
the U.S. govt and "environmental" groups to remove ranchers from western
rangeland. The only reason Cliven is still around, ironically, is because he
stopped paying the range fees to the BLM (he paid them to Clark County instead
until they eventually stopped accepting them). 53 other ranchers in
Clark County have been driven out of business or forced to sell out by the BLM.
This is because they continued paying the fees, and the feds continued turning
the screws on them (fewer and fewer cattle allowed, more restrictions). Cliven
Bundy is literally the last rancher standing. And he's only standing
because he defied the bureaucrats all these years. So you see
it's not about the range fees.
Time and time again, I hear arguments about how the West would be better off if
federal lands were relinquished to state control, or privatized outright.
Let's imagine what would happen to Mr. Bundy in that case:--If
I don't pay the property taxes on my property, I'll have a lien on my
property, or even have it sold at a tax sale.--If I don't pay rent to
my landlord, I'll get evicted, and nasty things will happen to my
credit.Yet Bundy has been running his cattle on public land--making
money from land owned by every American--without paying a penny in rent. For
twenty years. And when, after entirely too much patience, the feds take action,
Bundy becomes Robin Hood and the militia crowd goes nuts.Tell me how
this differs from the Welfare-queen-on-government-cheese stereotype the
Republicans love to throw around?
Bundy wraps his mooching in talk of heritage, and how his family has been
ranching since the 1870s.But the land was federally owned, before
Nevada (or Utah) became states. (In fact, the vast majority of land titles in
the US go back to the federal government.) Mr. Bundy's ancestors, had they
so chosen, could have bought the lands from the government outright for $1.25
per acre. Or they could have filed homestead claims, and received the land free
of charge. Many Utahns and Nevadans did just that.But instead, they
ran their livestock on the unclaimed public land. (Why buy the ground when you
can graze the cow for free?) Mr. Bundy's ancestors may have known that it
wasn't their property, but Bundy seems to have conveniently forgotten this
fact.The land belongs to all Americans, and all Americans have an
equal say--through their elected representatives--in how it is managed. If
Bundy disagrees with that management, fine--he can write his congressman, or let
other citizens know about his plight. But he's not above the law, no
matter how many gun nuts crawl out from under rocks to support him.
Whatever happens, we know the BLM will try to ruin the Bundy family.
Yet another "Conservative" ripping off the people of the United
States.It never ends, does it?
GaryO. The issue isn't who is ripping off the government but why we allow
the government to rip off the people (those who pay taxes)! Government waste,
corruption, lies, bullying, and losses of personal freedoms are on the increase
if you haven't noticed. We teach our children not to be bullies and not to
be bullied but how do we teach the government not to bully us? We vote out the
big government liberals who always rip off taxpayers in November!
That Mrowka guy is the one inflaming people with talk like that.This
whole thing came about because the Chinese want to set up a solar energy farm in
the area and their main sponsor in the Congress, one Senator Harry Reid, is
behind that effort. His son is the legal representative for that company and my
guess is that a lot of money has changed hands. That solar farm will do more to
harm the turtle than a few cows. Besides, the turtles eat cow dung.If that land has been used by the Bundy's for so long, then they do have
some claim on it. Them and to gubment need to reach a reasonable accomodation.
There isn't alot going on in that part of Nevada that doesn't border
the Virgin River. Get a half mile away and there is nothing.
We're $700,000, for each second of a year, in debt. This is above the taxes
we already paid.And for some people, the outrage is over grazing
Good Grief, the federal government should do exactly the same thing that was
done to end the Shays Rebellion in 1786 and 1787 - when these folks refused to
pay their past due taxes and organized a rebellion eventually the troops were
sent in. This rancher is 20 years behind on his legally due fee payments. He
is mooching off public land, and he and his supporters have threatened federal
officers trying to discharge their legal responsibilities.Lock him
up and throw away the key.
Mounanman - Wrong.Public land belongs to the public. If a rancher
wants to graze cattle on that land, then he must pay the public. He's been cheating us for 20 years.I want our money . . .
NOW."Conservative" thieves are consuming public resources
like a ravenous, uncaring horde of Mormon Crickets intent on fattening
themselves at the expense of everyone else.Right Wingers can
destroy. That's their forte. And they can talk up a storm. But they lack
the integrity and ethics and dedication required to actually help this nation.
Gary O is fine with government wasting taxpayer money, intruding on personal
liberties and being totally unaccountable to taxpayers but he wants
"OUR" (translation= HIS government money NOW!...LOL
Let me get this straight!Our government went to an American rancher
with armed men, and took 400 cows.The same government who now owns
most of the houses in this country.Does it really matter if Bundy
owes back taxes, that the government can use armed snipers, and take property
away from citizens? Our leaders doing this to its citizens?What's scary, are some people don't see anything wrong with this,
and actually support it. Fifty three other Nevada ranchers have
already been booted out.
@GaryO:You want your money now? Not tomorrow?Go after
Obama. He's taken hundreds of millions from us for personal vacations, and
presents for his wife. This is not part of his presidential wage.
Leave Bundy alone, and go after the bigger pay off. Washington is
full of money wasters.
@SAS"Tell me how this differs from the
Welfare-queen-on-government-cheese stereotype the Republicans love to throw
Thid Baker - No, I am not "fine with government wasting taxpayer
money."Just the opposite.I'm tired of
"Conservatives" stealing from taxpayers.Does that help that
"The BLM has a sacred duty to manage our public lands in the public
interest, to treat all users equally and fairly," said Rob Mrowka, senior
scientist with the Center for Biological Diversity. "Instead it is allowing
a freeloading rancher and armed thugs to seize hundreds of thousands of acres of
the people's land as their own fiefdom."Well said Rob, they
are ignorant of the law and the government they pretend to love.Of
course allowing conservatives to steal is acceptable behavior, remember the no
bid, blackwater, pallets of cash and no receipts, wars that enriched cheney and