Satan doesn't exist.
Thank you for sharing this article. It's really nice to be able to see
nice things like this while reading the news, and not just focusing on whatever
big, gloomy stories will grab people's interest.
DN and author - thanks for publishing this insightful and inspirational article.
It is a description of the real, true world and the real challenges faced by
many mothers (from the perspecitve of the mother in this case). Thank God for
our precious wives and mothers and for all their goodness!
I needed this today! Thanks for printing it.
To: Ernest T. Bass, Bountiful, UT - tell me, do you really want to take that
Thank you so much for sharing this. I have been really struggling a lot
lately (not a mother, just a student), but this is exactly what I needed is see
in my life right now.
This is such a weird article. I appreciate the point that the struggles of a
stay-at-home parent can be overwhelming and that in those times people can react
by doing things they'd rather not do (moments of weakness, getting
frustrated, becoming angry, whatever). It's often nice to read about people
overcoming struggles, learning from mistakes, and finding hope. But the whole
"satan stealing motherhood" thing is distracting and odd. Plus, I'd
bet that motherhood is something the author equates with her womanhood...in that
perspective is womanhood and femininity so easily taken? And is that why
she's afraid of doing something that makes her appear taller than her
@The Deuce....I'll take that bet with Ernest T.....He doesn't exist.
You only believe it because you've been told it your entire life.
@ The DeuceI'll take that bet with Ernest T. Bass and will add
that I think it's a cop-out to blame things on "the devil." Not
that I don't empathize with the author of this article. I just don't
believe that a being outside of herself is responsible for what she describes
and I think framing it in this way robs a person of the opportunity to address
the real issue(s). For instance, parenting is incredibly hard and requires
enormous reserves of energy every day. Maintaining these reserves requires
ensuring that one's own needs are met. When they're not, meltdowns
are almost inevitably going to occur.In short, everything the author
describes here can be explained by one thing: Being human. This may not be as
thrilling as seeing yourself in a courageous battle of Good v. Evil, but it is
real. My bet's with reality.
I've got to come down on the side of reality too. It's actually a
little disturbing to read somebody blaming satan for her own insecurities and
issues. What if some of her issues require outside help (or medication) and she
is blaming satan rather than seeking the help she (and her family) really needs?
@ Ernest T. Bass - Bountiful, UT - "Satan doesn't exist."That's the funniest thing I've heard in days.Funny, that
is, if it wasn't so incredibly dangerous.....
This is the kind of guilt-ridden motherhood I am happy to leave behind. Once I
started to understand gender roles and cultural constructs, my husband and I
began to work together as a team to raise our 4 kids. I now recognize that
'mother' is an important part of my life, but not the entirety of it.
I am still a human being with needs myself. As I have begun to take better care
of those needs ( I am back in school part-time for one thing), I have seen the
depression I experienced as a stay-at-home mom lift. We share the home
responsibilities among the entire family (things are actually cleaner now!) and
we treat each member of the family as a human being with needs for fulfillment.
I am happier, the kids are happier, my husband is happier (albeit he has more
responsibilities around the house - and performing them very well, I might add)
and I certainly no longer think it was "satan" trying to thwart me from
some God-given assignment. Rather, it is a by-product of a male-dominated
society. Love your children: yes. Become the "giving-tree" stump: no.
@Earnest Why you got to dis people for blaming Satan for their own shortcomings?
@ kla795, Thank you! I could not have said it any better.
@ Ernest, Dennis, & Jimmy:One of Satan's greatest tools is
to convince us that he does not exist. Looks like it is working on some....
The sooner you guys realize this reality, the sooner you can come to terms with
just being good people for the sake of being good. It's liberating.
Just be kind and considerate, no need to blame some invisible
'entity' for not being kind.
This is not Satan stealing your motherhood. This is just motherhood and
learning to deal with children and their own personalities. And learning that
you can't have a happy mother if the mother is running on empty.Satan stealing your motherhood consists of a husband abandoning you and your
kids. Receiving zero help because you are deemed a bad woman because you are
not a widow but a divorcee. Having your kids made fun because they don't
have two parents. Having to work full time to make the house payment, heating
payment and putting food on the table....all while having more than one pair of
soaking wet underwear on the floor (and not caring because underwear on the
floor is the least of your worries). Listening to your kids and having to be
both mom and dad in every single situation. All the while being told,
repeatedly, that you are a second class citizen. You learn to hold your temper
when you are in this situation, because there is no. other. option.
It seems from the article you're a pretty good mom. Seems you're just
a typical first world stay-at-home mother who has real emotions and real
reactions to her situation. Nobody wants a brainless smile with dinner and a
drink. Someone like that doesn't ever show their kids the art and reality
of emotional processing. You're not less of a person for not smiling
through the whole thing. That's not even realistic to expect from anyone,
especially yourself. You shouldn't confuse this for weakness, because it
isn't. The fact that you soldier on, still get up and do your mom-thing day
in and out is proof of strength.When you shout at your kids, just
apologize for not handling it the best.When the house isn't clean,
recruit the kids to help, and make it a game if they're younger. If
they're older make appropriate incentives (Movies are usually good).Blaming someone else for your shortcomings is bull. Imaginary friends os
one thing, but imaginary enemies is... well... kind of crazy.
Great article! Thank you for sharing. I will certainly share it with my
wonderful wife. Now... off to fish for Bass.
I think that saying "Satan" steals your motherhood is a little to far.
Sure we get upset sometimes but we are human. We will never come close to
becoming perfect. We will always fall short to the glory of God and if we sit
around and say Oh no Satan stole my motherhood golly I would be in a whole world
of mess. When we are in a hard situation why don't we pray "God please
help me through the hard times, through my impatience, through my envy of the
gal who is skinnier and wears better looking clothes then I do. Show me what is
great about me." I bet anyone the God I know will listen to our hearts. When
I get over heated because my kids wont stop yelling I ask for forgiveness. If a
mom can't get off her phone for 5 mins get rid of the darn thing!!! I NEVER
give Satan the satisfaction in thinking he won because he never wins JESUS
ALWAYS WINS!! I give my hardships to my Lord Savior Jesus Christ. AMEN!
To everyone who is touting about Satan's nonexistence and this woman
blaming Satan for her own shortcomings as a mother:Did you even read
the article? She's not placing blame on Satan for these things. This
article is about how we as mother's short change ourselves when we forget
what being a Mom is really about, and let these things get to us. She never once
blames Satan, the author simply stated that Satan is happy to see us fail. Satan
is happy when we get down on ourselves, when we yell and scream, and become
negative. I heard this woman's message loud and clear, and I'm taking
it to heart. Thanks for posting!
Satan sounds alot like Ego, Ego lives for/creates inner & outer drama &
worry, envy, paranoia, automatic negative thoughts... theyre basically the same
thing in my opinion, awareness of what triggers it makes all the difference.
Pretty good article except crying in her sons bed asking him to pray for her to
be a better Mommy, that just seems like some heavy emotional stuff to lay on a 3
yr old :/ My Mom did that kind of thing & it stressed me out I had anxiety
Satan made me do it too. Now I feel so much better. It wasn't me. I
don't need help.
I appreciate the author's insight into a very needed topic. Satan is behind
ever last thing that leads men AND women to do evil. Discounting Satan's
cunning and desire to pull us down is a dangerous place to put ourselves.A mother may give her entire life and time in service of her children.
Male-domination has nothing to do with it. No one can argue that about our
society because for the last 100 years our society has done nothing but reject
it. Depression isn't caused by being a mother, or even doing that job
full-time at home. I know a young woman who grew tired of being a stay at home
mom. She felt like it depressed her. She went to school and work and now has
worldly success. She's also divorced now because she chose to betray trust
and those who loved her. She didn't leave a depressed life, she found her
way into one.Motherhood is the greatest blessing women have. The
article is spot on.
To: Ernest T. BassBountiful, UTIs he does not exist, then God does
not exist, then we don't exist. What are you and me doing here, then?
To Araanna: Thanks for sharing. Hang in there! You can do hard things.
Satan always gets a bad wrap, but isn't he an important element in
God's plan? No good without the bad, right? As a non-believer,
I think it's irresponsible how people can pin anything they deem
"bad" on a fictional character. And for what, comfort? Avoidance?
Justification? I lived 23 years in that alternate reality, enjoyed
the blissful ignorance, but eventually, I had to get my head out of the clouds,
own up to my mistakes and critically solve my problems. It's more
difficult, but worth it.
1. Deseret News should publish kla795's comment2. I'll
take that bet too. I bet that Santa doesn't exist either and that unicorns
don't either. I know, risky and dangerous, but there it is3. So
what if you're taller than your husband? My wife and I are the exact same
height and she wears high heels all the time, and that doesn't make me feel
less of a man. But then, I'm not a cop... (sorry, that was rude.
sheesh, talk about first world problems. Oh no, I can't fulfill an
impossible culturally-dictated gender role as maid of the household--must be
CWickyDoo,It's so nice when commenters actually take a moment
to read the article they comment on, huh? It is plainly obvious that anyone
pretending that the author "blamed the devil" for her shortcomings did
not read the article. At all. How sad; they may have gained some important
insights from it. And to you scoffers, Nephi's prophecy seems appropriate
here:And behold, others he flattereth away, and telleth them there
is no hell; and he saith unto them: I am no devil, for there is none--and thus
he whispereth in their ears, until he grasps them with his awful chains, from
whence there is no deliverance.Yea, they are grasped with death, and
hell; and death, and hell, and the devil, and all that have been seized
therewith must stand before the throne of God, and be judged according to their
works, from whence they must go into the place prepared for them, even a lake of
fire and brimstone, which is endless torment.2 Nephi 28:22-23.
I recently read an article about the "meanness" of comments that were
posted anonymously vs those where the poster was required to post under their
real name. One quote from the article was: "A communications professor at
the University of Houston studying the issue found anonymity contributes to less
civil discourse. He looked at online comments in newspapers for more than a year
and half and found 53 percent of comments were uncivil in papers that allowed
anonymity. That percentage dropped to 29 percent when newspapers required names
or links to Facebook accounts."This certainly seems to be true
here on the DesNews site generally, and with the comments for this article
specifically. In particular, there seems to be a lack of civility and tolerance
for any faith based beliefs, or towards those who do not espouse any type of
religion. There are certain folks who constantly feel the need to push their
own agenda in a way that is disrespectful, and even unkind at times.While I respect the right of all to express their opinions, I think we can be
much more tolerant and respectful in the process.
I might add, both athiests/agnostics and the faith-based folks seem too often
willing to speak with certainty about subjects where little is understood. I
think we all may be a bit surprised when we gain more understanding, so a little
humility on all sides would be welcome and probably go a long way towards
increasing the civility of the conversation.
Well said Carman (I assume that's your real name)!You bring up
the most interesting point of people pushing their agenda on others when such
little is understood. In a perfect world, we would all be more humble and
nobody would push an agenda to get gain (or would at least disclose the amount
of gain from pushing said agenda). I hope we see the day.
The Devil is real. You can see him in many things, however You can see God in
ALL things. opposition is a reality.While we are responsible for
every action and reaction we make, it is imperative to understand the forces
encouraging us to choose one way or the other. Only when you understand you are
being tempted to do evil, or prompted to do good can you make an informed
choice. when you understand and can see the forces that are manipulating you,
you will have the power to choose between them.Nowhere did the
author blame Satan... rather she gave a wise description of how the devil
rejoices when we CHOOSE him. Our choices are what matter. The things we choose
to think, say, do, and become are what define us. It is black and white, good
vs. evil. Take the time to look inside yourself. I know you will feel the Holy
Spirit directing you and guiding you as to what choices are best. You will also
feel and be aware of the devil tempting you and leading you down paths of
destruction. It's up to you who you will choose to follow.
While I'll be first in line to embrace technology for being great for
helping people to feel that they aren't alone when they might have once
felt like it, I also had to think, as I read this article, that I was grateful
that I didn't have so many "perfect" mothers to compare myself with
from the internet, either, when my children were little. Of course, I
didn't have so many folks to brag to...but I digress....This
mom has some pretty good kids, and does pretty mom-ish stuff, so I don't
imagine Satan is too interested in her, long-term. Yeah, I do think that
fella's real, but hey, to each her own...and no evil weevil's gonna
spend time with a mom whose kid's got a great imagination and may well end
up being a novelist with a book to write, or several, by the time she's
halfway into her twenties...You go, Mom!! Rock on!!!
This story is beyond strange. Parenting is tough enough without fearing Satan,
Zeus, or Loki are out to get you. This mother has fears and stress and worries.
It's normal, but I feel bad that she feels like satan is on her heels,
waiting for her to mess up or something. No one, not even mythological beings,
rejoice when we struggle. Odd story, but best of luck to her.
God is real. He is light, and the origin of all things which are light or which
give light. All good things have their origin in Him, interrelating spiritually
with His goodness, in one form or another. When we do something which is good
and create joy, God may not always have caused it directly, but His influence in
us and in the world gave some originating spark to those wholesomely happy
events, reactions, and feelings. As we open ourselves to God and goodness, we
receive more light.Lucifer/Satan is real. He is darkness, and the
origin of all things which are dark or which encourage darkness. All evil things
have their origin in him, interrelating spiritually with his evil nature, in one
form or another. When we do something which is evil and create sorrow, Lucifer
may not always have caused it directly, but his influence in us and in the world
gave some originating spark to those sorrowfully evil events, reactions, and
feelings. As we open ourselves to Satan and evil, we become increasingly dark
and increasingly impervious to light.Most things/people/events are
part good, part evil; part light, part darkness; part life, part death.
Thank you so much for articulating this, its just what I needed to read today. I
think so many people underestimate satan's game which is exactly what he
counts on you doing to perpetuate his long game. ("he leadeth them by the
neck with a flaxen cord, until he bindeth them with his strong cords
Hang in there. You see the true indeed, and the truth sets you free! Hang on to
what is true, believe it, remind yourself of your destiny in eternity.
There’s a purpose in everything. How beautiful that you see it! Hooray!!!
For those of you saying that this author is NOT saying that "satan made her
do it," how do you explain this plain language from the article:"That's the kind of thing that happens when you allow satan to steal
your motherhood.No, it's not the mistakes. It’s not the
forgetfulness. It is what happens on the inside that no one else sees. And he
knows just how to get to you."Here, satan is apparently doing
affirmative acts. He is "steal[ing]" this poor woman's motherhood.
He is out "to get [her]."Besides, this article should be
read in the context of this person's belief system. That system
contemplates a very active devil figure who "inviteth and enticeth to sin,
and to do that which is evil continually" as the Book of Mormon so
eloquently puts it. This guy also "drags" his victims down to hell and
misery.So no, I'm sorry. This is not just a simple blog about
how hard being a mother is. This is a blog about how motherhood is hard BECAUSE
satan is actively trying to make mothers rotten/terrible/lazy people.
Perhaps the problem is seeing children as commodities, products that are put on
the market to be judged, which in turn leads to us being judged by others. I have two nieces. One is being raised in a very strict household with
many rules and expectations for proper behavior. The other is a free-spirit
being raised in a very unstructured home with few rules and much space for
personal choice. Both my brother and sister are critical of the parenting of
the other. I look at the kids - both seem to be happy and reasonably well
adjusted, doing well in school, have friends and so on. The differences? The one
in the full-filled home worries about performance and how she measure up. The
one in the more open environment questions rules, maybe a bit too often. Is one environment better? Is one harmful? Both girls will be 11 this
year, in another decade we will have some of those answers. In the meantime, my
hat is off to any parent who has a kid and pays attention to them.
To me, the author was not saying the devil made her do anything. She was saying
that Satan wants people to be unhappy and is glad when she is unhappy because
she is beating herself up for her imperfections. I think she is saying
it's ok to be imperfect. Being a parent is difficult and we do the best we
can and we don't need to be perfect parents. I thought it was a good
message whether you believe in Satan or not.
It is foolishness to think Satan does not exist. Anyone who thinks such should
read C.S.Lewis' book titled "The Screwtape Letters. It's an
excellent read by an incredible author and brilliant man. Satan wants us to
think he doesn't exist. That's just one of the lies he will convince
you to believe. Do not do it. God is real. Evil is real. Satan is real.. SHUN
HIM. He is the father of all lies.
What an encouraging article! Mothers, be gentle with yourselves and think,
"Today I am going to remember the One who gives life and knows I am a mess
and loves me anyway."
Understanding that Satan -does- exist is what is liberating; when I discoverd
God for myself, despite growing up hearing about how he doesn't exist, it
awakened me to the problems most damaging to my life.When I realized
Heavenly Father's plan for families, when I realized the distinct strengths
and weaknesses we have as men and women, the tendencies of the human family
became clear and purposeful to me, and the dangers and follies of those
rejecting them became all the more clear; like a pit hidden by a tarp being
I think this is a great article and one I can definitely relate to. @Earnest T.
Bass I hate to hear that you believe their is no Satan b/c that means you
believe their is no God as well which is far from the truth. Proverbs 3:5-7
Trust in the Lord with all your heart, and do not trust in your own
understanding. Agree with Him in all your ways, and He will make your paths
straight. Do not be wise in your own eyes. Fear the Lord and turn away from what
is sinful. I'll be praying for you & others that you come to realize
So now Obama is out stealing women's motherhood. What's next for that
guy? I thought the GOP had waged the war on women, not Obama for heck sake.
"Take your kids...and hold them tight..." I agree.
It's what I will remember and my kids will remember, and cherish, the rest
of our lives.
I really don't think of these things as "satan stealing
motherhood." They're all just a mother being a human being. The author
of this article clearly has some insecurities about herself.
Yawn! It must be easy for you to blame Satan for your depression and struggles.
Out of the 7 Billion people on this planet Satan himself is forcing you to yell
at the kids or feel depressed. And then, he sits there gloating or feeling
jealous that you can have children? Some of you people are really
Thank you for sharing your feelings. Of course you are not "blaming
everthing on Satan"--it is figurative for "I listened to, or followed,
the wrong voice in my head" and those who don't believe in Satan know
we all fight battles in our heads over what is the right or wrong choice. Live
and let live on who or what we attribute that to. I wish people would be kinder
and more willing to try to understand intent, rather than jumping in to
criticize so they can come across as more intelligent, or more "right'
or even, as some of these commenters, more "put upon than you." These
comments are a perfect example of what you are trying to say here--we all tend
to worry about what people think too much, because people are so often too
blasted judgmental and unkind. Dare I say "God bless you in your
I really dislike articles like this. How about just take responsibility for
making a bad decision? Satan didn't make you do anything or steal anything
from you. You're just a human being who is not perfect, like everyone else
on this planet. Stop using Satan as a scapegoat, people. Sheesh...
I think Satan stole my hot rod. Jesus built it, and Satan stole it. Oh no, wait, it's right over there.
Warlocks and unicorns made me do it!
I find it terribly sad that so many of you have NO respect. Believer or
non-believer, you should know better than to use such rude words to tear people
down. You should be ashamed of yourself! I hope you teach your children to be a
little more mature than you are! The author clearly has a beautiful
heart and love for her children. She is obviously not blaming satan for her
parenting. She is saying he finds joy in her failures. He distracts her from
being the Godly mom God has called her to be. At least she is acknowledging her
mistakes and failures and trying to make them right/better. Let's grow up
and learn how to treat people!I VERY much enjoyed your article! You
have a beautiful heart! This is just another tool that satan can use to
discourage you! Don't let him!!! Praying for you and the momma God has
designed you to be!
Being a spiritual person starts with acting selflessly. A mother must be so
selfless and needs hope more than anything. There are moments when a mother will
realize that she is giving of herself to the point that she has nothing for
herself. It is what she chooses to do at that point that makes or breaks her
motherhood. Thankfully children love their mothers and are the first to forgive,
because this cycle of giving does leave a mom empty at times, which leads to
break down. It's the chronic breakdown and our free will choice to listen
to our baser instincts instead of our spiritual self that welcomes in the
attributes of Satan. We cannot act perfectly, but a mother can never stop
trying, because that's when she's failed and Satan has won.And shame on the responses tearing this blogger down. They are no better for
@HeidyC: You wrote, "Is he does not exist, then God does not exist, then we
don't exist. What are you and me doing here, then?"What
leads to down this path of though? Humans came about through evolution. We
have non-human ancestors, and the process that led to the existence of human
beings did not involve deliberate and conscious creation by a being. There is
simply no evidence that God exists, but there is evidence that we exist.
Some people are complaining that those who argue against the existence of Satan
are tearing down the blogger. Actually, this is far from the truth. Believing
that Satan is the cause of your troubles is only going to create more
psychological problems. I think providing a naturalistic explanations for our
negative emotions and behaviors is more helpful than saying some supernatural
evil being is trying to make us do bad things.
Whether or not Satan exists is somewhat immaterial to the article IMO. I'm
a faithful Mormon but I think we often are too quick to blame bad behavior on
Satan or say the Lord gave us a particular trial. We believe we are gifted with
agency and in general, control of our own selves. We believe the Lord loves us
andcares about us but for the most part life just happens. Satan
doesn't make you yell at your kids, you losing control does that. the Lord
doesn't put obstacles in you path, he provides you the inspiration and
fortitude to endure or overcome them. When we give up our agency, blaming or
crediting them to the supernatural we cheapen our agency, we place it secondary
to whims of other beings. That isn't in tune with the gospel.
Satan is ridiculous! Take responsibility for your own actions and stop blaming
the boogeyman. You're human, get over it. Not everything bad can be
sloughed off on some invisible bad guy. Shrugging your shoulders and saying,
"Get out, Satan," is a copout.If someone can show me this
beast, I'll have a lot easier time accepting it. In the meantime, get over
The greatest trick the devil ever did pull off was to convince the world he
didn't exist. The world basks in moral relativism, which denies absolute
good and evil forces around us. But, denying because a person chooses not to
believe does not change reality.This article was excellent because
it boldly declares that evil does exist and the resultant opposition tries every
person who has lived upon this earth. Likewise, because there is evil, there is
also good, which seeks to lift us to reach our potential here and in the
hereafter. There is no purpose to life without good and evil influences.To this modern world having departed from God, such concepts are
becoming increasingly antiquated and foolish. But, to those who know by personal
experience of a greater reality than the world acknowledges, good and evil
influences exist. It is the world in all its wisdom that is made foolish unto
God.The sooner we see our utter nothingness in this mortal state,
and total reliance upon God for permanent happiness and fulfillment, the greater
true peace is witnessed. Ironic with so many abandoning God for the consolation
prizes of this world, but true.
@HeidyC"Is he does not exist, then God does not exist"See how nicely that flows?"then we don't
exist."My mirror tells a different story each morning."What are you and me doing here, then?"I can't speak
for you but I'm striving to treat others as I would want to be treated, to
take care of my family, to teach tolerance, respect, and compassion for others
to my kids, and to make the most of the short time on this planet. What I am not
doing is wasting time trying to punch a ticket to an afterlife that likely
isn't there to begin with.
@Don ManoloWhat do you mean unicorns don't exist?!!!
@EternalPerspective: What evidence do you have that there is a Satan? What
evidence do you have that this being called Satan has a trick to convince people
that he exists? I'm not asking for passages from the Bible; I am asking
for evidence. You are making claims about reality without any evidence to
support it. That which can be stated without evidence can be rejected without
evidence.Your appeal to personal experience with regard to the
existence of Satan and what you believe is good and evil is not convincing.
Your personal experience supports your faith; the personal experience of others
supports their faith, which contradicts the faith based claims you embrace.
Religion, indeed, the LDS Church, is awash in moral relativism.
The LDS Church used to say that inter-racial marriage was bad. They don't
say that anymore. In fact, they would dispute it, yet it wasn't long ago
that members were told not to question the gospel that said white people should
not marry white people.
@EternalPerspective:You wrote, "The sooner we see our utter
nothingness in this mortal state, and total reliance upon God for permanent
happiness and fulfillment, the greater true peace is witnessed. Ironic with so
many abandoning God for the consolation prizes of this world, but true."Sorry, as an atheist, I am much happier and fulfilled than I was when I
was Mormon. I also have atheists friends who happier and more fulfilled than
those who claim they rely on God for their happiness and fulfillment. As for
you claim that "abandoning God for the consolation prizes of this word",
well, this is nothing more than an ad hominem argument, so we can toss that one
of the window. What consolation prize are you talking about? I
wouldn't call it a consolation prize, but I can tell you that abandoning
religious dogma and superstition has been a plus in my life.
I see my comments were quickly refuted. The truths and witnesses of God require
faith and cannot be proven by physical evidence alone. Yet, to those who have
received them, they far exceed the glory, praise, and intelligence of humanity.
That is the catch-22 of sign-seekers who will not take anything but physical
evidence as proof of God.There is no convincing except for
repentance and faith in what has not been witnessed yet. Such a condition
becomes compelling often by way of life experiences that humble a person to the
point where the world no longer holds merit in producing happiness, knowledge,
and truth that is satisfactory. The process of proving spiritual
things for truth has remained constant in requiring sincere desire, purity of
intent, and steadfastness to prove God for themselves. But, such will not yield
physical proof, but spiritual realities if there is humility to receive them.I will say...it is very fascinating that when the devil or evil is
mentioned, so many unbelievers are extremely quick to deny, but also attempt to
convince others there are no such things. Ever wonder why? A day will come
when all know.
@EternalPerspective:Do you ever wonder why people try to convince
that fairies and bigfoot don't exist? Personally, I try to convince
others to reject all extraordinary claims if there is no evidence to support
them because I think it's better to rid our world of irrationality in favor
of reason. Evidence based reason has a far better track record than
irrational claims based on zero or insufficient evidence. I reject the
existence of Satan for the very same reasons why I reject the existence of
fairies and bigfoot: lack of evidence.Your argument in support of
faith is problematic because Catholics say the same thing you are saying, but
the supposed fruits of their faith contradict yours. The same can be said with
respect to all religions. Yes, life experiences can help people have a sense
of humility, but faith always produces inconsistent results for reasons
I've already provided: your faith in existence claims are different than
other Christians. Faith is just believe without evidence, and this leads to an
every goes mentality. If you can believe in Satan without evidence, you can
believe in fairies without evidence. The sky is the limit.
Mr. SmittyI'm sorry to hear you left the Church of Jesus Christ
of Latter Day Saints. I hope one day the testimony of truth becomes your
witness again. I'm grateful for the mercy and love of the Savior that is
so profound He was able to forgive a wretch like me. If that is possible, which
I do know is true, then I also know He can do the same for everyone. But,
it's not just forgiveness, rather seeing beyond the physical limitations of
this world and our purpose here.The best arguments the world has to
offer against the existence of God and the eternal reality of our purpose here
all fall away when a person is willing to receive the testimony of His Spirit
into their hearts. I spent all my life until the last 6 years following the
world's definition of knowledge and truth. It quite simply does not
produce lasting fulfillment, joy, and happiness beyond a moment of fleeting
pleasure. Instead, a person must constantly switch the endless pathway of
interests, pursuits, and pleasures of popular culture.I am grateful
for articles like this one, though they never pass without much antagonism.
EternalPerspective,Personally, I have more confidence in
Enlightenment values. I view faith claims as ultimately destructive, though I
recognize that it also consoles people and provides them with a sense of
meaning. The Enlightenment has improved religious beliefs, for Christians no
longer burn heretics at the stake, nor do they accuse women of being witches and
subject them to drowning or burning at the stake. Most Christians ignore large
portions of the Old Testament, or they try to rationalize them away. Most
Christians no longer believe in witches or unicorns (References of unicorns can
be found in Numbers 23:22, Numbers 24:8, Deuteronomy 33:17, Job 39:9, Job 39:10,
Psalm 22:21 and more.) They no longer believe in such things, yet they continue
to believe in the existence of Satan. Why this one, and why no longer the
others?I believe we should extend the Enlightenment by dropping the
belief in Satan on the pile of other beliefs that have been dropped.
First of all, the author is not blaming Satan for her actions. She knows that
she is ultimately responsible for everything she does. Second, if
Satan were real, would Satan want us to know he existed or would Satan rather we
imagined he didn't exist? If we knew, with empirical proof,
that Satan existed then we would know that God existed. Then the choice would
become easy and resisting temptation would also be easier because we would
recognize the battle for our soul for what it was. This article is recognizing
the stakes, the opponent, and the opponent's strategies in the boxing ring
of everyday struggles. Third, everyone of us can be placed on a line
with ultimate evil at one end, and ultimate good at the other. Someone exists at
both extremes of the bell curve. No matter how secular or religious you are, we
all universally recognize great evil and that it has occurred.Now,
overlay a spiritual existence onto that, with spirits under Heavenly Father
having the agency to choose their morality. Jesus Christ has made moral choices
making him perfectly good. Statistics tell us someone must exist at the other
end of the extreme.
@AmkaProblemka:We have all experienced negative emotions and
attitudes as parents, but believing in the existence of Satan does nothing to
improve ourselves. The negative thoughts that arise in my head as I experience
negative emotions are my thoughts, and sometimes they are conditioned to arise
involuntarily, but we can watch them and judge whether or not they help or harm
with respect to parenting. I have made improvements over the years, and I
have done so without the burden of believing in Satan. When I misbehave as a
parent, I soon realize my mistake, and I do my best to behave better in the
future. I also know that doing things that helps us manage our emotions can
help us become better parents. Personally, mindfulness meditation and exercise
works for me.I think believing in Satan is ultimately more
distressful. Indeed, as a former believer, I can tell you that ridding myself
of this belief was an act of ridding myself of the burden of this believe, and
others have said the same. Letting go of this belief has not harmed our
ability to improve our parenting skills.
I think it's immoral to teach children that Satan exists is trying to make
them do things. It's irrational. I prefer the rational approach of
teaching children about the biological basis of negative emotions and how they
lead to bad thoughts and behaviors, and I think it's better to provide them
with strategies to combat these negative emotions.Has anyone seen
Inside Out? Great movie. What a great way to teach children about their
emotions and how to cope with them! Of course, we don't need to tell
children that there are literal characters called Fear, Sadness, Joy and so
forth. We can tell them that they are imaginative characters that helps us
understand how our brain works. It's very helpful, and it doesn't
require a belief in Satan.
actually Satan's first priority is to get rid of the term
'mother' altogether and substitute care giver. The supreme court just
opened the flood gates for that to happen last week. I think I saw a Twilight
Zone about this once - feels alot like the Twilight Zone in America now days.
Let's hope America wakes up soon before the nightmare deepens.
@patriot: I predict that as time progresses, you and others will see that the
sky really isn't falling, nor was it ever falling. You know you are in the
Twilight Zone when religious conservatives believe religious freedom means
persecuting and discriminating against gays. The problem is that
religion doesn't have reason and the facts on its side. It only has dogma
JD,You are saying - Believing in Satan makes me feel bad, so
it's better if I don't believe.That is not a logical
argument. Believing that serial killers, abusers, and xenocidal despots exist
brings me negative emotions, but I do not disavow their existence because of
that. We must seek truth, not pleasant emotions.I
don't teach my children to fear Satan. Rather, to be on guard for negative
thinking and negative impulses and to pity him, because he dwells in negativity
eternally and chose his miserable path. What I teach them is the
peace and empowerment of looking to Christ always.I don't worry
about gender roles. This really is a cultural construct, though built on the
framework of a woman's particular gift at protecting and providing for the
mind and heart and a man's particular gift at protecting and providing for
the body - gifts which overlap in unique ways among couples depending on their
talents. I focus on serving my family with the situation at hand and the
abilities I have at my disposal, with my husband and his abilities and
priesthood, and with our Savior ever central to our plans.
re:JD Jones"The problem is that religion doesn't have
reason and the facts on its side. It only has dogma and superstition."By dogma and superstition I assume you are referring to the words of
Jesus Christ as recorded in the New Testament? You mention reason and facts -
according to whom? Your reason and your facts? What if I see your so-called
reason and facts as politically correct mush? How many Christians are there in
America who happen to believe in this "dogma and superstition? Over 100
million. Some rather prominent members of our founding fathers who also believed
in this "dogma and superstition are George Washington, John Adams, Patrick
Henry, Alexander Hamilton and many more....consider the words of
John Adams..."The general principles on which the fathers achieved
independence were. . . . the general principles of Christianity. . . . I will
avow that I then believed, and now believe, that those general principles of
Christianity are as eternal and immutable as the existence and attributes of
God; and that those principles of liberty are as unalterable as human
nature."But what do they know - right?? It appears our founders
saw Christianity as more than "superstition".
@AmkaProblemka:It appears the JD used up his replies, so I'll
jump in.I don't think JD was trying to say, "Believing in
Satan make you feel bad, so it's better you don't believe."
Instead, I think he is trying to say that you shouldn't be afraid of Satan
because there is no evidence to support that claim that Satan's exist. If
you believe in the existence of Satan, you may feel afraid, like so many others
do, but its a waste of time because it's just an irrational belief. You don't need to believe that serial killers, abuser and genocidal
despots exist, for there is ample evidence they actually exist. Experiencing
negative emotions in the face of real people whose existence isn't
questioned by sane people makes sense, but experiencing negative emotions
because you believe Satan exists without evidence to support the claim of his
existence is irrational. My daughter once believed in ghosts. She was afraid
of them, but her fear disappeared when she accepted that ghosts don't
exist. Being afraid of ghosts is not the same thing as being afraid of real
@patriot:Facts exists independently of those who realize them, so it
makes no sense to ask about whether or not a fact is mine. For example, the
earth is round. This is a fact, and it's nonsensical to ask if this fact
is mine or not. What is at issue, really, is whether or not you accept certain
facts, and religious beliefs often result in not accepting certain facts. If
you see my facts and reasoning as politically correct much, you would be better
off if you relied on evidenced based reason to make your case.Yes,
there are over 100 million Christians who believe in dogma and superstition, and
it takes many different forms. Some people have the superstitious belief that
9/11 happened because God is punishing America for its sins. As for dogma,
well, it's obvious that religious people are dogmatic. Just look up the
definition of the word.Speaking of facts, your Adam's quote is
a cherry picked on. There is a lot missing in the "..." you included in
the quote. Leaving out the full context misleads people to believe something
that Adam's never meant.
@patriot:Continuing my point about Adams, please google "fake
history adams christianity" and click on the first result and read it.
Anytime you see a an ellipsis (...) in a quote, you should read the original
source and full context of quote. Sometimes ellipsis don't change the
meaning; sometimes they do. The quote you provided provides three of them. I
have other things to discuss, and would run out of words trying to describe what
was really meant, but website found in the google search I found does a good
job. It's not that this is your fact. It's that you don't have
this fact straight, and it would be irrational if you continue to argue that he
meant you think it means.Adams did believe in God, but he was a
Deist, like the rest of our founders. In a letter to Jefferson, Adams wrote
the following: "The question before the human race is, whether the God of
nature shall govern the world by his own laws, or whether priests and kings
shall rule by fictitious miracles."
re:Spagetti MonsterThere is a famous statue of a monkey with hands
over his eyes, his ears and his mouth. The title is "hear no evil, see no
evil and speak no evil". In the Western world the phrase is often used to
refer to those who deal with impropriety and sin by looking the other way,
refusing to acknowledge it, or feigning ignorance. When you steal or kill you
feel it to be wrong - it is human nature within you. When you commit adultery
(or other similar sin) you feel it to be wrong morally and no one need convince
you. It is a natural offense to the human spirit. All sin causes the same pain
to your spirit - you feel it is wrong and no one need tell you. Many people
simply do as the monkey and "pretend" there is no sin. They find courts
to support them and popular media to cover for them. They attack the
commandments which they break attempting to marginalize them and all in an
attempt to wipe away the natural guilt they feel. Trust your feelings not what
PC culture tells you. You're smarter than the monkey.
@patriot:In a letter to his son, Adams also wrote, "Let the
human mind loose. It must be loose. It will be loose. Superstition and
dogmatism cannot confine it." I think it's fair to say that Adams did
not believe in Satan. At any rate, the quote is fact. If you don't
believe me, check out a book of his letters. You will find this quote and
others that will completely debunk your claim that Adams was a Christian.There are quite a few writings by people who knew George Washington, and
they all disavow that he was religion man. Christians have been dishonestly
representing George Washington as a Christian for years. In reality, he was a
deist. I would run out of room arguing this case, but you can learn more about
this if you are open to evidence.Thomas Jefferson was clearly
against Christianity, and so was James Madison. It curious that you omit these
two, for they are founding father heavy weights. Regarding the gospels,
Jefferson wrote, "We find in the writings of his biographers ... a
groundwork of vulgar ignorance, of things impossible, of superstitions,
fanaticisms and fabrications."
re:Spagetti MonsterSorry guy but your comments about John Adams are
incorrect. Taking things out of context doesn't add credibility to your
arguments either. Quite the opposite. Let me explain a fundamental truth that
seems to be lost on you. There are relative truths and there are absolute
truths. Science once taught the earth was flat - it was never flat and opinion
didn't change it's shape. Opinion (yours or mine) have NO power over
truth. Relative truth changes as more light and knowledge are revealed. Absolute
truth however is the same yesterday today and forever. It never changes. We call
them laws. Gravity has always existed and opinion has no power over it. Jesus
Christ created this world and worlds without number - also an absolute truth.
Jesus also gave laws and commandments to "save us from sin" and allow us
to progress. Also an absolute truth. You and I will die and be judged by Jesus
Christ - an absolute truth. One day you will see - hopefully you can open your
mind and remove the anger in your heart because the discovery of truth is there
...so close and available to all.
@patriot:Your monkey story was amusing, but only because it appears
you are unable to counter Spaghetti Monster's post with argumentation.
It's also amusing because you seem to be suggesting that S Monster's
claims are based on PC culture. As a matter of fact, his claims are right on
the money. His claims have nothing to do with PC culture in the least. Any
literate person can learn that our founders were not Christian; they were
Deists. It's an indisputable claim. James Madison said the
following at the A Memorial and Remonstrance Against Religious Assessments:
"Experience witnesseth that eccelsiastical establishments, instead of
maintaining the purity and efficacy of Religion, have had a contrary operation.
During almost fifteen centuries has the legal establishment of Christianity been
on trial. What have been its fruits? More or less in all places, pride and
indolence in the Clergy, ignorance and servility in the laity, in both,
superstition, bigotry and persecution."
@patriot:In his letter to William Bradford, Madison wrote,
"Religious bondage shackles and debilitates the mind and unfits it for every
noble enterprize, every expanded prospect." This has nothing to do with PC
culture. Just read his letters!It's ironic that you bring up
the famous status of a monkey with his hands over his mouth, eyes and ears, for
you seem to refuse to understand and admit the most basic of facts with regard
to our founders statements about religion. It appears that you are being
willfully ignorant, and I don't mean to say this to offend you. It's
really what it appears you are doing. It's just a fact that the founders
who were considered the big hitters viewed religion in general, and Christianity
in particular, as superstitious and dogmatic enterprises. Franklin also held
this view. Patrick Henry was religious, but he opposed the
Constitution, so I'm not sure why you would want to have him as one of your
heroes, especially if you cherish the Constitution. Sorry, this isn't PC.
It's a fact.
@patriot, the challenge with revealed truth is figuring out what counts and what
doesn't. The introduction to the Book of Mormon stated until very recently
that Lamanites were the principal ancestors of the American Indians, and for
good reason--Joseph Smith claimed to have been taught as much by Moroni himself.
The Bible would have us believe that all humans descend from Adam and Eve, who
lived a mere six thousand or so years ago, and from Noah who survived a flood
even more recently than that; the Bible offers no evidence for these claims, but
science offers a wealth of counterevidence. Joseph Smith claimed to have
"translated" the facsimiles in the Book of Abraham, but Egyptologists
(including Mormon ones) agree that what the facsimiles actually say and what
Joseph Smith claimed they say are two very different things.Long,
long ago, people may have thought the earth was flat, but they didn't claim
to arrive at that conclusion through science as we understand it. The Ancient
Greeks knew through the scientific method that it was spherical. Scientific
knowledge is certainly incomplete, but science doesn't claim as fact things
for which no evidence exists.
From a Biblical perspective I think Satan contributed to your motherhood.
Remember Adam and Eve did not know they were naked and were not commanded by God
to go out and be fruitful until after the fall.Thank you Satan!
To: Mr. Smitty, Salt Lake City, UT - regarding your comment that evil does not
exist implies that you have not seen enough of this world. I can show you places
in this world where evil can be seen, felt and experienced. These are places
that you should be thankful that you have never seen. Your apparent bravado is
evidence for a lack of true experience dealing with these issues. I can only say
that when truly confronted with such evil, the smile would be wiped off your
face. Be thankful that you can say these things don't exist because someone
else has had to deal with it so you don't.