Had the U.S. Supreme Court not "dodged" the same-sex marriage equality
issue with regard to Proposition 8 in California, the confusion that exists
today would not exist. The Justices need to "step up" and rule on the
constitutionality of same-sex marriage in a decision that will apply not only to
Utah - but to all 50 states. All the justices have to do is apply the Equal
Protection Clause of the Fourteenth Amendment in ruling that same-sex couples
have the same fundamental right to marry as do opposite-sex couples. It should
be an easy case to decide.
This is sad news for those LGBT couples who want to get married but cannot
because of government restrictions. They must now either be patient and wait for
the 10th CoA ruling, or go to another state with more freedom and less
Thank you for the stay.
I must say I am surprised but pleased that the Supremes did the right thing.
Shelby should have immediately placed a stay while the decision was appealed.
The fact that he didn't shows his activist bias. ANY good judge would have
put the stay on and have allowed the judicial process to work.If the
voice of the people has any power left in this country, this thing will be
They'll examine the case and uphold the lower court's ruling. This is
a bell you can't unring.
Good move. The people of Utah should not have to put up with a fundamental
change to one of their foundational institutions because it had become fait
accompli after the tyrannical and narcissistic ruling of an unelected federal
judge ho did not understand the difference between not allowing somebody to play
the game and not changing the basic rules to suit their fancy. There
is a Constitutional right to marry but that is real marriage. Same-sex
"marriage" is a recent parody of the real thing. There is no right to
make basic changes to an ancient and central institution like marriage without
the consent of the people. Judge Shelby was making a policy decision not a legal
Utah made $50,000 in just 4 days when it allowed gay marriage. Now,
utah will spend $2 million dollars to fight it. When conservatives
raise the 'false flag' of complaining about national debt?
I am going to remind them, of Utah.
Cats:The Attorney General's office was the one that was
supposed to apply for the stay. Why should have Shelby done their job for them?
Shouldn't have had to come to this - but at least the process is
working. I fear the day when the courts are so stacked that the
process will not work as it was intended to. It will be interesting
to see how this plays out. What is certain, though, is that no
matter what we humans try to legislate, God's laws are immutable and
eternal: the family is central to His plan, marriage is not a social or a
constitutionally defined relationship - it is sacred, it is between a man and a
"Man law's cannot make moral what God has declared immoral." DH
Can't wait to read the various "legal briefs" from all the armchair
lawyers here on DN. I had no idea there were such great legal minds in Utah
until the gay marriage issue presented itself!
This has more to due with ego and grand standing than judicial rulings.The SCOTUS feels someone has stolen their limelight.They simply want to
make the final ruling and go down in the history books as the one's who
made it happen.
Hopefully a temporary setback. Utahns, look again at the joy on the faces of the
same-sex couples married so far, and on the faces of their children and family
members! Real human beings are involved here, and their getting to enjoy their
rights doesn't take away your rights. Here's to justice and equality
Some things are worth fighting AGAINST. Same sex marriage is one of them.
Thank you SCOTUS. One biased judge should not overrule millions if biased
Utahns. This deserves further review. I read Judge Shelby's 53-page
ruling and determined it is that length because there is no substance, so he
instead went with quantity. There was nothing in there that hasn't been
endlessly debated in these comment boards. Due Process and Equal Protection as
required by the 14th amendment is very unclear when applied to the definition of
marriage. In such cases, the will of the people rules..
'Same-sex "marriage" is a recent parody of the real thing. '
Tell it to Utah before 1890. When Utah allowed Polygamy marriages.
Not much monogamy when your marriage is between a man and a woman
and a woman and a woman and a woman… is there? The
double standard to claim to want 'traditional' marriages from persons
who's grandparents might have factually been part of a very UN-traditional
marriage in Polygamy is truly shameful. Now, let's talk about
the case. 'Shelby should have immediately placed a stay while
the decision was appealed.' The state did not request a stay
until AFTER the ruling. Not before. If this was truly a 'critical'
issue for Utah instead of the 1.3 million cut of food stamps, action should have
been taken by the state. How has the record action gone, on this? *'Judge Rules Defense of Marriage Act (DOMA) Is
Unconstitutional..' - ABC News - By Jake Tapper - 01/08/10
*’Prop 8 declared UNCONSTITUTIONAL by 9th circuit court’ – by
Michael De Groote – Deseret News – 02/07/12 *'Judge
STRIKES DOWN Utah's same-sex marriage ban as UNCONSTITUTIONAL' –
By Fox News – 12/21/13
Great news!Wonderful day!
"Wha'eva, wha'eva, I do what I want....!" Not a real age of
leadership, this era we're living in, is it?! Oh, to be a Federal Supreme
Court Justice, living the life of Riley on our hard-earned tax dollars, and not
having to give any reason for my rulings!
Uncle Rico,No court ruling can make you a bigot. You have to do that
all on your own.This is hopefully a temporary setback in the
struggle for marriage equality.
(ORDER LIST: 571 U.S.)MONDAY, JANUARY 6, 2014ORDER IN PENDING CASE
13A687 HERBERT, GOV. OF UT, ET AL. V. KITCHEN, DEREK, ET AL.The
application for stay presented to Justice Sotomayor and by her referred to the
Court is granted. The permanent injunction issued by the United States District
Court for theDistrict of Utah, case No. 2:13-cv-217, on December 20, 2013,
is stayed pending final disposition of the appeal by the United States Court of
Appeals for the Tenth Circuit.
Awesome! States have the right to govern without the federal govt.
intervening. It's not a right to have homosexual sex as a man and declare
under the constitution that you are now a women and I titled to the same
benefits that are reserved for real women.....this is known as the gays water
down women....gays war on women!
Awesome news!!! Great to see some sanity to the ridiculousness that 1 judge can
invalidate the decision by the citizens of a state with the swipe of a pen.Homosexuality never was, nor will it ever be marriage.I
challenge any LDS member to detail how homosexuality is congruent with the plan
of salvation and is doctrinally sound.
'Great News. I expect now to see negative posts from a very well designed
campaign from the gay community around the world telling Utahns that we are
bigots etc.' So has anyone actually CALLED you a
bigot…? No? Why is that? Because
people in this state are showing their Hate. Gay marriage factually
did nothing to bring any harm to any citizens, but we are hearing all kinds of
false quotes from God today, aren't we? Nothing like
threatening people with burning in a lake of fire for eternity to show how much
you are 'not' against them, right? Theocracy aside, LGBT
are first and foremost, human beings. Vilifying them by claiming you
are 'oppressed' when no factual example is present? Is a false
flag. What did Jesus say about False Witness? Straight
couples in Utah have access to the 1,100+ rights and legal protections of
marriage. LGBT Americans, do not. If your God teaches
you to lie, and treat people differently and promote discrimination.
It is a bad one.
Conservatives want the government/courts off their backs and out of their
business...Unless, of course, their business is other peoples
Actually sotomeyer is one of the more liberal judges on the scotus and this
indicates where the court itself probably falls on the issue. Not that the libs
on the court are not in favor of gay marriages but that they realize it is a
perogative of the individual states and not something the judiciary has the
right to "legislate" on an unwilling populace. Occasionally they get
things right despite their own bias. This is a slap down of judge
shelby and he is no doubt humiliated by it. Kinda funny.
Uncle Rico,Nice when the oppressor plays the martyr card.Let the courts decide without all of the hype and emotion.
@Charlemagne - There are two kinds of marriage: secular and religious. Due to
the U.S. Constitution's freedom of religion imperative, while the state may
not impose its power over religious marriage, it may impose its power over
secular marriages. Just as the state should keep its nose out of religion unions
and the free exercise thereof, religion should do likewise and keep its nose out
of secular unions.The secular freedom of two individuals to marry
(regardless of gender) does not weaken the status of any religious freedom nor
any marriage performed under such auspices except in the small minds of people
unwilling to allow others to exercise their free will to decide for themselves
with whom they want to share a life.While I believe in the sanctity of
Temple Marriage, I also understand that each person must be afforded the same
freedom of choice within their own lives. It is not the right of the Church or
its members to impose their beliefs on other persons...something the Church has
found itself fighting against from opponents since its restoration.
SCOTUS made a wise decision. Judge Shelby was ruling from the bench.
>>The Attorney General's office was the one that was supposed to
apply for the stay. Why should have Shelby done their job for them?The AG's office did apply for the stay. Shelby rejected it. So they
appealed. The fact that SCOTUS overturned Shelby and imposed the stay makes him
look bad. No judge ever wants to be overturned by the Supreme Court, even on a
The interesting thing about this is that the 10th Circuit Court of Appeals has
stated they don't think the State of Utah will win the appeal. I wonder if the new AG will remember to request a stay?@ Cats:
Any "good" lawyer (heck any first year law student at even the most
pathetic law school) would know to request a stay and would know that Judges
cannot rule on motions that are not before them. You want to see judicial
activism and overreach? Start demanding judges do whatever they want instead of
being restricted by the motions before them. The voice of the people
has never had the power to take away the rights of the minority.
Jason:Yes, it would have been helpful if SCOTUS had not dodged the
issues behind Prop 8, but applying "equal protection" as articulated in
the 14th amendment is not as straightforward as you suggest. That amendment was
adopted to address civil rights such as voting for recently freed slaves.
Marriage is not a civil right like voting. (At least I have not seen the SSM
folks make any compelling argument for this position.) And those in same-sex
relationships are not slaves. Marriage is about much more than the affection of
two people-it is the foundational institution of our society and we need to be
very thoughtful about such radical efforts to change its makeup.
@ PaganNice try with trying to compare Polygamy and Homosexuality.
Any third grader could tell you a natural vs unnatural act. Its
"Reasoning" like this where you can yell all you want, and it still
doesn't make sense.
I hope Shelby recognizes his mistake in not issuing the stay immediately.He should be removed from office.
This is just one more reason why I will never, ever walk into an LDS church ever
How the US Government is attacking the Family. Definitions below from US Census
dot gov.1)A married couple, as defined for census purposes, is a
husband and wife enumerated as members of the same household. The married couple
may or may not have children living with them. The expression
"husband-wife" or "married-couple" before the term
"household," "family," or "subfamily" indicates that the
household, family, or subfamily is maintained by a husband and wife. The number
of married couples equals the count of married-couple families plus related and
unrelated married-couple subfamilies.2)A family is a group of two
people or more (one of whom is the householder) related by birth, marriage, or
adoption and residing together; all such people (including related subfamily
members) are considered as members of one family. 3)A household
consists of all the people who occupy a housing unit. There are two major
categories of households, "family" and "nonfamily".
Loved the quote from sunshiner! I am happy about this ruling also. God created
man and woman - not man and man or woman and woman. They were also told to
"be fruitful and multiply and replenish the earth. Two men or 2 women
can't do that without science stepping in to help.
It's interesting to see that everyone calling Shelby an "activist"
judge also says something in their post that indicates their religion is the
reason they would use to uphold the law to ban gay marriage. A judge who cites
religion as the reason to uphold a law...now THERE is an activist judge. In
this case, all the state of Utah has to do is to give a reasonable basis (not
religious principles) for why the law is needed, and it wins. Shelby said there
was no reasonable basis, and I still haven't heard one yet either.
Visitor from California-You want equality for all? Does this mean
you are also suggesting equal tax rates for everyone -- from the super poor to
the super rich? Since the Obamacare individual mandate is a
"tax" as well, are you suggesting everyone should be equal and pay the
same monthly insurance premiums -- whether poor/rich, smokers/non-smokers,
healthy/unhealthy and so on? Setting aside the "equality"
argument, so-called same-sex marriage is a moral issue. It's unfortunate it
has been twisted to become a civil issue in our day.
IT is the basic difference between natural law and unnatural law. Marriage
between a man and a woman, as defined in the scriptures, is natural. Anything
else is unnatural!
YES!!!Could not be happier with this decision. Unfortunately though, I think it's only a matter of time before Gay
Marriage sweeps the entire country. In fact, with the recent court rulings, I
think it's only a matter of time before Gay Polygamy marriage sweeps the
country too.In trying to explain this gay marriage issue to my
children, I had to tell them that our objection to gay marriage is based on
God's Word (scriptures, prophets). And when speaking to someone who
supports gay marriage, my argument simple falls on deaf ears - because the
homosexual community does not even understand that argument. their logic is
based solely on "man's rights". God has no place in their decision
making.Because if He was part of their decision making, and they
were truly honest with themselves and others, they would admit that
homosexuality is a sin. So you can't argue God's law with someone
that only believes in "Man's rights". And for that
reason, gay marriage is destined to sweep this country...
No matter what you personally think is right or wrong, or what your moral
stance, it is not fair or right to use a state constitution to deny another
human being a basic right that everyone else enjoys. So you think marriage is
sacred? Do you have a problem with atheists getting married? You should. So you
think marriage is about the children? Do you have a problem with divorcees who
are parents? People who can't conceive? Widows who are parents? Marriage is supposed to be a personal choice to share a life together. It
should be about love. How narrow the view to think that your world will be
turned upside down because more people get to share their lives in love. How
horrible that must be to live like that. So many went on with their
lives over Christmas as if nothing had changed for them. Because nothing did! If
you aren't gay this doesn't change anything for you. Let it go. Let
other people be happy. Let them marry. And for the record, I am
otherwise conservative member of the LDS faith.
It is common for the trial judge to issue a stay in cases where it is apparent
that an appeal is going to be made and where the ruling is "new ground"
with little precedent. You can't ask for a stay until after a ruling -
since you wouldn't know what needs to be stayed. The process is functioning
the way that it always does. A stay doesn't mean that there is a leaning
on one side of the other as far as the merits go. Shelby's ruling was
threadbare on precedent - ignoring the rule of "stare decisis"
ordinarily required of judges in making rulings. We will all stand by and see
how it all turns out.
@Jason WilliamsYou make a decent argument, except for the CRUCIAL
fact that California (and most other states) voted to keep marriage between a
man and a woman. If you truly value our constitutional freedoms and rights, then
you will agree that the voice of people is to govern. I'm all about equal
rights for all. I think that same-sex couples should be allowed to enter into
binding civil unions that offer the EXACT same rights as marriage. The problem
is that now 5 judges can completely overrule what the people voted for. That is
wrong on any level. Bottom line, the govt (state or fed) should have no business
of being involved in marriage period. If they can completely diminish the voice
of the people because they disagree, then we no longer live in a republic, but
Once the legal process plays out right-minded americans can only hope that
equality triumphs over the bias of the religious majority . . . at least the
religious majority in Utah. Most members of the Church stand steadfast with the
leadership and their statement that "what God has said is immoral cannot be
made moral by man's law". The problem with that statement is "who
said GOD is against marriage equality?" If you believe God's word is
handed down from the pulpit at general conference, then what's to argue?
However, this country is not bound by the pronouncements of the brethern in Salt
Lake City. It is not immoral for gays to seek love and companionship in this
life . . . and marriage is what is recognized by the US government as an
expression of that commitment. Once gays achieve marriage equality, the Church
will likely continue to oppose these unions, but life will go on. And for the
Historical attack on the definition of Family, originally husband and wife, (see
legal-dictionary and Family+Law).Historical Background. Most of the
changes made in family law in the late twentieth century have been based on
overturning concepts of marriage, family, and gender that go back to European
Feudalism, canon (church) law, and custom. During Anglo-Saxon times in England,
marriage and divorce were private matters. Following the Norman conquest in
1066, however, the legal status of a married woman was fixed by Common Law, and
Canon Law prescribed various rights and duties. The result was that the identity
of the wife was merged into that of the husband; he was a legal person but she
was not. Upon marriage, the husband received all the wife's Personal
Property and managed all the property owned by her. In return, the husband was
obliged to support the wife and their children.This legal definition
of marriage continued in the United States until the middle of the nineteenth
century, when states enacted married women's property acts.
As a supporter of equality, I will admit to some disappointment, but can't
say it was a surprise. To reject the state's application for a stay would
have projected bias by the Court in a case they will ultimately decide.But, let's look on the bright side. This temporary stay may give LDS
Utahns a chance to calm down. You could smell the panic-sweat all the way from
New York. Perhaps now there will be a chance to lower the adrenaline level and
have an intelligent conversation. I don't hold out much hope that the
Church hierarchy will moderate their hard-line stance in the next several weeks,
but perhaps some rational thought and discussion will take place in the
media.Meeting some committed gay and lesbian couples was all it took
for me to see that allowing them to marry was only just and right, and that
there wasn't anything to be afraid of. I hope Utahns get that same
This makes my day!
Now, if only the South can have its legal right to enforce slavery again. I
mean, the majority of its citizens voted to legalize slavery but the North
insisted on invading the South and denying the citizens there their right to
majority rule. I suppose the rights of black people meant more. Of course,
Christian and Mormon heretics in Utah will continue to shove their religion down
the throats of the minority in the state, and that's a dang shame. No
wonder the Church struggles to get new converts from the state of Utah. Utah
religious extremists are a poor example of God's love to those who have WAY
different religious and political views than they. I feel bad for Utah
residents who live such sheltered lifestyles because they never figure out how
the real world works, just what's important in their small little worlds.
@Duckhunter"Actually sotomeyer is one of the more liberal judges on
the scotus and this indicates where the court itself probably falls on the
issue. "Nope. How'd that stay on Prop 8 turn out for your
side? It's pretty common for them to be issued (that's part of what
made your side so annoyed it wasn't granted).
Don't get too excited, opponents of equality. This is just dotting i's
and crossing t's. This way, another full appeals court (in addition to the
9th) is likely to get behind equal marriage, adding to the momentum. When enough circuit courts have chimed in, and I believe they will chime in on
the side of equal marriage, it will make it virtually impossible for the SCOTUS
to finally decide for any other option but full equal marriage rights. It's
slow and laborious, but this way no one can (legally) claim in the aftermath
that steps were skipped, rights were trampled, etc. Sotomayor is playing it
It becomes mandatory for the Governor to stand up for a change and void the
same-sex marriages that were rammed through by a single Federal judge. He has
the US Supremes on his side without a single dissenting vote. Those marriages,
according to the Supremes, should never have taken place like the were. He most
likely doesn't have the backbone to do it but it sure would be nice to see
a politician with that kind of backbone.
From US Census dot gov. Unmarried couple or married couple is between a husband
and a wife.Definition of Unmarried couple: An unmarried couple is
composed of two unrelated adults of the opposite sex (one of whom is the
householder) who share a housing unit with or without the presence of children
under 15 years old. Unmarried couple households contain only two adults.Definition of Married couple: A married couple, as defined for census
purposes, is a husband and wife enumerated as members of the same household. The
married couple may or may not have children living with them. The expression
"husband-wife" or "married-couple" before the term
"household," "family," or "subfamily" indicates that the
household, family, or subfamily is maintained by a husband and wife. The number
of married couples equals the count of married-couple families plus related and
unrelated married-couple subfamilies.
Only a matter of time.
The court should recognize that this is a biological issue. The purpose for sex
is reproduction: 1) to unite the sperm and egg; and 2) to help the zygote to
develop into a mature individual. In the human species permanent heterosexual
pair bonds have evolved because it takes such a long time to train humans into
mature, responsible, productive adults. Humans who grow up in a home where there
is a strong heterosexual pair bond are more likely to mature into well-adjusted
adults than if the heterosexual pair bond is damaged, corrupted or missing. In
the past this heterosexual pair-bonding has been called marriage. Changing the
definition of marriage will not change the biological reality of the need for
strong, heterosexual pair bonds if we want well-adjusted children and a strong,
healthy society. If we legalize homosexual marriages or unions, the biggest
victims will be more children raised in dysfunctional environments resulting in
more crime, school dropouts, poverty, social unrest, disease and misery. We
already have enough social problems so whatever our personal desires may be, the
responsible thing to do is to maturely and unselfishly behave in a way that will
not undermine our society.
@ Father of FourSo I assume you will never read the bible again?
Homosexuality is condemned in that text.Now I do not condone the
homosexual lifestyle, but the question lies does the constitution ban the right
of same-sex marriage? That I don't know and it is up to the courts. If they
rule that according to the Bill of Rights that same sex marriage is valid, then
we have to live with it.If it is not an unalienable right then it
won't be allowed. If it is not then the voting citizens of any state should
be able to decide what the people of the state want.Father of Four it is
hilarious you blame this on the LDS population, California voted against gay
marriage and they are not LDS dominated.That is similar to saying I am
never going watch or attend an NBA game of any sort because the Millers own the
jazz. It show incognizant knowledge.The judge should have stayed his
ruling pending appeal, it is incredibly rare that judges do not stay a ruling
such as this. That in my opinion was grossly negligent on the judges part.
I find it interesting that one of our local radio talk show hosts is using
Facebook poll as "the tide has changed" in Utah. How scientific....I also find it interesting all of the "pro" gay marriage folks
crying about the $2 MILLION DOLLARS WASTED! Oh the humanity. Really, two million
is peanuts in terms of our State budget.As a member of the
predominant faith I support The Proclamation on the Family which concludes with
- "WE WARN that individuals who violate covenants of chastity, who abuse
spouse or offspring, or who fail to fulfill family responsibilities will one day
stand accountable before God. Further, we warn that the disintegration of the
family will bring upon individuals, communities, and nations the calamities
foretold by ancient and modern prophets."I invite all of my
Mormon friends to re-read the Proclamation and re-think what side of this
argument they are really standing on.
As with any state, not just Utah how marriage is defined in each state is up to
the state and its residents. If a state and its residents vote to keep a law
traditional marriage between a man and woman the courts should not overturn it.
Likewise if a state and its residents vote for a law to allow same sex marriage
it shouldn't be a decision even brought to the Federal Government or
appellate courts. If a state truly defines what a marriage should be, then the
California law should have not been overturned nor should the Utah law. IF
marriages in a state were a Federal decision then all 50 states would be told to
allow same sex marriage. As far as the commenter who posted about the non
traditional marriage law of polygamy before 1890, that was then, this is now.
124 years ago, really? There were a lot of unconventional laws on the books in
all states back then. Things and times change. In my opinion though, the
marriage that really counts in the eyes of God is the sealing in the temple.
Marriage is not a human right. The government regulates and prohibits all sorts
of marriages. It does this as an expression of the will of the people.
Government regulates underage marriages,close relatives, and multiple spouse
marriages. Why does the law regulate marriage between people? Because it would
not be good for them. And when enough people do things not good for them then it
begins to affect everyone. No state has voted for same sex marriage. It has been
enacted by single persons. Judges, county clerks, Governors, or city government.
It is ALWAYS permitted against the will of the people. If you call an apple an
orange it will still be an apple no matter what is permitted by law.
Finally we can get this heard properly, put all the noise about procedure behind
us, and get the ban overturned properly so we can move forward, ideally in all
states, with same sex marriage. 900 couples got married here in the freedom
window, however, and I think that's fantastic. They're not going away.
VOICE OF THE PEOPLE!
"For this cause God gave them up unto vile affections: for even their women
did change the natural use into that which is against nature:And likewise
also the men, leaving the natural use of the woman, burned in their lust one
toward another; men with men working that which is unseemly.And even as
they did not like to retain God in their knowledge, God gave them over to a
reprobate mind." (Romans 1: 26-28)"Thou shalt not lie with
mankind, as with womankind, it is abomination." (Leviticus 18:22)There it is. We only fight against the truth at our peril, and if there is a
quarrel, it is between those who choose to live in this way and God. In the meantime, citizens have every right to protect the sanctity of the
marriage covenant in society, which is a holy and sacred covenant, without being
ridiculed and branded as homophobic.
@kalindraDo you really think that pretending inconvenient facts
don't exist makes them really not exist?Here is your quote."I wonder if the new AG will remember to request a stay?@ Cats: Any "good" lawyer (heck any first year law student at even the
most pathetic law school) would know to request a stay and would know that
Judges cannot rule on motions that are not before them."The
state of Utah DID request a stay and judge shelby rejected it. No one
"forgot" to do it. A stay cannot be requested until a ruling is made,
once judge shleby made his ridiculous decision the state requested a stay at
which time judge shleby made another ridiculous decision and denied that stay.
The state then appealed to the scotus and one of the most liberal justices on
the court embarrassed and humiliated judge shleby by issuing a stay and
completely rebuking him. Any "first year law student" would
actually know that a stay was requested by the state and was rejected by the
judge that was later slapped down by the scotus.
The issue is whether a state has its own right to decide its own marriage laws.
The 10th Amendment says certain powers are delegated to the States and certain
powers and delegated to the Federal Government. Amendment 3 is a State Law not a
Federal Law. I got my marriage license for my marriage to another women from my
County who is under the jurisdiction of my State. After watching a video from a
same sex activist who said that gay marriage is not the real agenda I am
convinced that it is not about same-sex marriage, it is about eventually
destroying traditional marriage and accepting ideas contrary to what the creator
of this universe intended.
This is what equality looks like. Hang on for the ride.
Shelby was wrong not to issue a stay along with his ruling and thereby became
and an activist judge. his hands have now been duly slapped by Justice
Cheer while you can. The 10th circuit court will uphold Justice Shelby's
ruling.This is nothing more than a temporary setback.
It is very obvious who reads the Deseret News and it is not a diverse group!
@schneeUh....the scotus never made a ruling on prop 8, it simply
issued a stay and sent it back to the federal courts. it basically punted. But
we are getting to the point where the scotus is going to have a hard time
continuing to "punt" and they are going to have to take it up and make a
decision. But they would not issue a stay if the states argument had no merit.
The fact they have issued a stay, despite judge shelby refusing to do so, shows
they have already rebuked him on one of his rulings and shows they do not think
his ruling is altogether correct, or at least he has not proven his point and it
needs further vetting by the court as a whole.I understand how
frantic this makes people like you but it will play itself out over time. I
personally think the ultimate decision will allow individual states to decide if
they want to allow gay marriages or not rather than the scotus decreeing it as
Regardless of the various issues stated in the story, and in these comments, the
real issue is: Can any legal entity define what marriage is? In my opinion,
either marriage is between a man and a woman, or it's undefinable. If
it's undefinable, Dad can marry son, or the neighbors goat or whatever.
Every argument I've ever heard for same sex marriage applies as well to any
arrangement of consenting adults, and adult age is defined by the state. If you
want to live together, great, do it, no one is stopping you... If you want to
use the mens bathroom, be a man, if you want to use the ladies room, be a woman,
if you want to get married, be a man and a woman, any other arrangement destroys
the institution. Because I say so? No, because if it's undefinable, it will
wither away, if you just plain don't care, go for it, but I do care, and I
will stand up for marriage...
@JSB: "If we legalize homosexual marriages or unions, the biggest victims
will be more children raised in dysfunctional environments resulting in more
crime, school dropouts, poverty, social unrest, disease and misery."
Wow...just wow. Please share your sources. Or if this is just you shooting
from the hip reflecting your personal/subjective belief, then you are the
perfect example of why a judge would strike down a law for which people like you
voted that unreasonably hurts a discriminated-against minority.
The comments here are proof that religious belief is the root of all evil.
To all those saying that that same gender marriage won't harm traditional
marriage go back to yesterday's article written by the Ericksons and look
up with reference to a gay right activist who said that gay rights activists are
lying when they say that traditional marriage won't be affected.Explain, how that statement is wrong. That is the evidence that many people
are using to oppose same sex marriage. If you simply make ad hominem statements
that traditional marriage won't be harmed without responding to this
statement, it makes people wonder if you are talking from some set of PC dogma
that is the official way of thinking for which it is forbidden to question.
@Jeff in NC:"If we legalize homosexual marriages or unions, the
biggest victims will be more children raised in dysfunctional environments
resulting in more crime, school dropouts, poverty, social unrest, disease and
misery." Wow...just wow. Please share your sources. "Google
the social science study done by Mark Regnerus.
The pre-trial ruling was not binding, and the Supreme Court saw it as way over
what the judge in California did. Anyone on either side needs to see this for
what it is - a rejection of judicial activism, which either side should decry.
@Charlesnot from utah, 00I challenge any LDS member to detail
how homosexuality is congruent with the plan of salvation and is doctrinally
sound.9:17 a.m. Jan. 6, 2014========= Free
AgencyFreedom of ChoiceJesus's plan...Moses 3:
17"...nevertheless, thou mayest choose for thyself, for it is given
unto thee."Lucifer's plan was to take away freedom of
choice, and force everyone to only choose the right.Right or
Wrong, No matter how noble the cause, I fought against that plan
then, I fight against that plan now.We are to show a better
way [by example], and ask others to join us to follow.THAT is
the plan of salvation and is doctrinally sound.
Unfortunately Utah does appear to be a bigoted, hypocritical and mean spirited
state not helped by all the self-righteous citizens patting themselves on the
back for upholding what they think are "God's Laws". The Federal
government has a long history of trying to regulate marriage in the State of
Utah. Apparently man's law can make men behave morally even when they think
God has given them other directions.
@morganhOrem, UtahThe issue is whether a state has its own right to
decide its own marriage laws. The 10th Amendment says certain powers are
delegated to the States and certain powers and delegated to the Federal
Government. Amendment 3 is a State Law not a Federal Law. I got my marriage
license for my marriage to another women from my County who is under the
jurisdiction of my State. 10:04 a.m. Jan. 6, 2014=========== Better not move then, because using your flawed
logic, your marriage can not then be recognized in another county, another
State OR another Country.
>>Nope. How'd that stay on Prop 8 turn out for your side?Prop 8 doesn't prove your assertion that SCOTUS will uphold Judge Shelby.
SCOTUS struck down Prop 8 not on the grounds that it was
unconstitutional, but on the grounds that no third-party had standing to defend
it in court after California declined to do so. By doing so, SCOTUS went out of
its way in Hollingsworth v Perry to avoid imposing a federal definition of
marriage on the states when it could easily have done so.But Utah,
unlike California, is defending its constitution; and Judge Shelby's legal
reasoning in overturning Utah's constitutional ban leaves SCOTUS only two
options. SCOTUS will either have to overturn Shelby or go even further than it
did in Hollingsworth v Perry and impose its own definition of marriage on the
states. It could, but its refusal to do so in Hollingswort v Perry
creates doubt as to whether it will.
In the meantime, hundreds of LGBT citizens continue married. Whose
marriage was demeaned because a loving bride married another or a groom became
another man's husband?Whose children suffered because of it?
Chances are, the children most affected already were part of a gay parents'
family. Going forward, more children will enter into those families.This just in: Ducks did not marry chickens and no churches were sued.
For the ongoing debate there is something left out here.The original term
"marriage" and the State Solution to it, or the asumed traditional
interpretation of the Constitution or ...etc....but :There is one
law that is not found in any book, that is the law of conscience.People
just know what is right, they just love to twist things for entertainment.Who would not know what marriage is all about by looking inside of your
head and inside of your feelings to do best for others ? We just celebrated
Christmas, and with it the birth of a newborn, a child with parents. Who can
deny such thing ?So whatever the ruling will be, we all know very
well what it is supposed to be.
One must wonder if the state of Utah is being teased a bit.Remember the
analogy of the crab in the barrel? The crab(Utah) just about makes it to the top
of the barrel, only to again fall back to the bottom of the bucket.Numerous states are doing just fine with SSM. There are more on track ready to
initiate the law in their states.This clarification by the Supreme Court
was necessary so there will be no more hiccups as the law is initiated
throughout the country.Patience, my friends, all will work out for the
United States to show the world we are the leader in equal rights for all.
FatherOfFourWEST VALLEY CITY, UT said "This is just one more reason
why I will never, ever walk into an LDS church ever again." Is
Justice Sotomayor LDS?Is any of the rest of the Supreme Court who issued
this stay LDS?This has nothing to do with the LDS Church.
>>Free Agency>>Freedom of Choice>>THAT is
the plan of salvation and is doctrinally sound.I think you
misunderstand the role of free agency in God's plan. Free agency isn't
license to choose to do whatever you want. Rather, it's the freedom to
choose to submit your will to God. That's really the only choice we have in
this life. All of our other important "choices" are really just tactical
decisions about how we're going to implement the first one.Of
course, you're free to choose not to submit your will to His; but
you're not free to demand that He (and His followers) redefine His gospel
to accommodate your choice. He sets the terms of what constitutes a righteous
life. You just get to choose whether you're going to accept the terms.
>>Whose marriage was demeaned because a loving bride married another or
a groom became another man's husband?But that's not the
only yardstick by which we should measure a change in society's moral
standards. What will the effects be on society writ large over the longer
term?The problem is that, from a sociological perspective, we
don't know. Gay marriage hasn't been around long enough for
sociologists to develop tests and measures to determine its larger effects
(positive or negative). Traditional marriage supporters can't prove
empirically that it will be harmful; but neither can gay marriage supporters
prove empirically that it will be helpful or neutral. So when anyone
asks, "who does it hurt?" the appropriate response is "how are you
defining 'hurt'? What's your metric?"
Children are the victims of those who desire to destroy the command "....Be
fruitful,and multiply, and replenish the earth and subdue it and have
dominion ..." Abortion prevent the birth of a child, and homosexual
marriage cannot produce a child. Both are intend to negate the
commandments given by God when this earth was formed for the purpose of
bringing forth children, forming families. There is only one individual
who would desire this effort, he who was cast out of Heaven, Lucifer.
@Tekakaromatagi: Mark Regnerus basically lied about who was in that
"study." He wasn't looking at same-sex households. Instead, he
studied troubled opposite-sex marriages where one of the partners also had
same-sex relations outside the marriage. That's hardly the same thing and
his conclusions have been rebuked by most sociologists.@Ranch: As a
member of a denomination which stresses peace, love and equality, I'd like
to take issue with your blanket statement that religion is the root of all evil.
Without religion there would still be evil committed by evil people, they just
would hide behind some other banner while doing it. Fascism, nationalism,
xenophobia, racism and tribalism have caused more deaths than religion. Well,
maybe altogether.To Traditional Marriage "supporters":
Look. Knock off these tortured redefinition arguments. Just come out and admit
that you're opposed to letting homosexuals marry because you don't
like homosexuals. Sex and birth occur outside marriage, lots. (41% of US
births are out of wedlock.) Many straight marriages produce no children.
There's no birth requirement on a marriage license. THE TWO ARE NOT
LEGALLY RELATED, so you can't use that as an excuse.
mhenshaw says:"Gay marriage hasn't been around long enough
for sociologists to develop tests and measures to determine its larger effects
(positive or negative)."We've been around since the dawn of
man. We've had relationships since the dawn of man. We've raised
children since the dawn of man.If that isn't "enough
time"; it will never be enough for you.
People are going to get these "rights" no matter what happens. It's
only a matter of time. Where the tide of public emotion and opinion carries the
blind crusade for "justice" next is anyone's guess. It doesn't
really matter. It will overcome everything in its path. Those
opposing these causes have nowhere to stand that anyone else other then
themselves will find credible. Whether there is a God in heaven or not; or
whether or not he speaks; and whether or not you actually know what he is
speaking matters not. You can't prove it. No one has ever "proven"
such things. Perhaps the truth that governs the universe will be made clear
@ duckhunter: The State of Utah failed to request a stay before the original
ruling was issued - that is the stay to which I believe Cats was referring.
("Shelby should have immediately placed a stay while the decision was
appealed.")And yes - stays can be requested before rulings are
issued. That is actually standard procedure in cases like this. If Utah wanted
a stay of the ruling before it went into effect, it was their job to request one
- at the very latest/least, they should have indicated to Shelby their intent
when his office called to state he was about to issue his ruling.When the State finally got around to requesting a stay, Judge Shelby refused
it - but the State should have requested a stay prior to the ruling.As to stays requested after the original ruling - the 10th Circuit Court of
Appeals also refused (3 times) to issue a stay. The first two times they
refused were based on procedural issues - the third time was because they do not
think the State has a chance of winning.As you stated, "Do you
really think that pretending inconvenient facts don't exist makes them
really not exist?"
@ Tekaka: One activist individual has stated that she believes marriage should
not exist at all and you assume she is speaking for all homosexuals? I know men
who believe women should not have the right to vote - are they speaking for all
men? I know Mormons who believe same-sex marriage should be legal - are they
speaking for all Mormon? You live in Saudi Arabia - when you speak do you
represent all Americans in Saudi Arabia?One person - or even several
people - espousing an idea does not mean they are speaking for anyone other than
themselves.And, by the way, I know several heterosexuals who think
marriage should not exist. Do they represent all heterosexuals?As
for the Regnerus study - Regnerus himself states that his study should not be
used when determining the issue of same-sex marriage. There is nothing in the
Regnerus study that addresses children being raised by parents in committed
same-sex relationships - the study questions only pertain to dating
relationships of the parents. Likewise the Canadian study does not
examine married same-sex couples.All the studies prove is that
broken homes are bad for children - and most broken homes are, by default,
"@Tekakaromatagi: Mark Regnerus basically lied about who was in that
"study.""I am sorry but this statement is simply not
true. I have read his study and the LGBT critics of the same. I encourage
anyone who has the time to read his study and even the critics of it and come to
their own conclusion.My daughter who works in the medical profession
working with abused and neglected children in California has found that a
disproportionate amount of her patients come from same-sex couples and single
parent households. She is only 25 and more strongly opposes same-sex marriage
and changing the definition of the family than I do.
@kalindraFalse. Until there is a ruling there is no stay to request.
The judge issued his ruling on Thursday the 20th and immediately commanded it to
be in effect before any request for a stay, other than a verbal one, could even
be submitted. Utah immediately requested a stay and the judge waited around a
few days and let a bunch of marriages be performed befor ethen denying the stay.
You need to educate yourself not just on what actually happened but also on how
the process works. Now the judge could have automatically put a stay
on his ruling knwoing it was going to be appealed and let the process play out
but this judge did not do that, he ordered the gay marriages to commence
immediately.That you don't even know the most basic facts of
this case, and apparently have no clue about legal procedure, makes your
"points", well you don't actually have any real "points".
A commenter made this statement:"Utah made $50,000 in just 4
days when it allowed gay marriage. Now, utah will spend $2 million dollars to
fight it. When conservatives raise the 'false flag' of
complaining about national debt? I am going to remind them, of Utah".I say to this,, some things were worth fighting for back when and some
things are worth fighting or now... This statement reminds me of the
Politician pitching the income on taxes for Alcohol, Tobacco and now
Marijuana,,,, We see where the first two took us,For the Majority
of Uahn's,, I am sure they are supportive of the expenses.. As far as the
National Debt,,,, irrelevant in this discussion..
The United States does not issue marriage licenses nor does it issue birth
certificates or insurance licenses or teacher's certificates. All of those
things are issued by the State, as required by the 10th Amendment. The 14th
Amendment is not about issuing a marriage license. There is no inequality in
marriage laws in Utah. A man may marry a woman and a woman may marry a man. It
does not matter his race or his ethnic origin, nor does it matter for the woman.
There is no discrimination. ANY man is permitted to marry ANY woman (excepting
those who are too close genetically). There is no provision in the
Constitution to allow those who feel that a doctor made a mistake when the
doctor declared their gender, using all available physical evidence, that that
person should think that he or she has been treated unequally because that
person feels different about sex acts than others. If the Supreme
Court declares that "feelings" define a person, then watch out. There
will be those who "feel" that because they were not invited to ride on
Air Force One, that they were discriminated against.
The logic some commentors propose is that God's law is not always
man's law. The question is, who is God and who speaks for God. Religious
freedom dictates that everyone has a right to the God of their choice. Why
should one religious group get to use their opinion of what God says to trump
the civil rights of other people that do not belong to their religion? Is this
a theocracy or a constitutional democracy? We live under a constitution that
establishes basic civil rights that no church or legislative body should have
the right to take away from others, even if a disfavored minority.
My experience has shown me there are three groups of gay people: First, those
who were born that way; secondly, those who have been abused and struggle to
deal with all that comes with that; and thirdly, those who just choose it as
they would choose a dinner item off the menu. The main problem I have with all
this "live your life and let me live mine with the same rights" logic is
that it only increases the numbers in group number three. The gay and lesbian
groups have been very active to change the public's view of SSM as just a
personal choice issue to the point that most today would just say "it's
their life." You see many today who marry a same sex partner only to
announce they are done with that and now have fallen in love with heterogeneous
partner. Still all of this would be fine with me if I didn't feel a
responsibility to bring my children and grand children up in the ways of God.
Sorry, but that's the deal breaker for me. I will continue to love the
sinner and hate the sin.
I don't recall reading anywhere in the scriptures of any religion where
Jesus said: Discriminate against the "sinners" and make them behave the
way you want them to.@aunt lucy:"I will continue to
love the sinner and hate the sin."Therein is proof of your
disregard for your fellow men. Demeaning others as "sinners" in order
to justify legislating away their equal rights shows animus. You would classify
LGBT as "sinner", yet, according to your God, you fit into that category
quite well yourself; in fact, according to the Bible, every human ever born is a
"sinner" due to the fictional "Adam".
Happy days are hear again. Shelby has been shown to be an irresponsible
activists judge who has no respect for the orderly enactment of the law.I am not sure what the actual outcome in the 10th circuit will be. I
hope it will be a victory for Utah, Man/woman marriage and the one form that
will allow us to connect marriage to child rearing. However, this is at least a
victory for orderly development of the law, and the fact that radical rulings
should not be implemented before they have been properly appealed.
Bigotry and prejudice won a small battle today but the probable results of the
war being fought seem obvious. The times they are a changing.
"To Traditional Marriage "supporters": Look. Knock off these
tortured redefinition arguments. Just come out and admit that you're
opposed to letting homosexuals marry because you don't like
homosexuals."That's not true for me and I bet it isn't
for most opponents of SSM on this thread. I've had friends, clients,
relatives who were gay. I've treated them all with kindness and respect.
I don't have to think homosexuality is a good thing to love the individual.
I don't like drinking either but have plenty of friends who drink. I don't want homosexuality taught to my kids at school at a young
age. That doesn't make me a bigot.
I would be hesitant to say that this ruling tells us anything about what
Sotormoyor would rule on the substance of the case. It is a procedural thing,
and staying enforcement is the standard decision during appeal. The
court punted on Prop 8, but they will have a real hard time punting here. I
think Utah has a good chance of winning in the 10th circuit, but either way the
10th circuit rules it will be appealed to the Supreme Court. If Utah wins in the
10th Circuit there is a good chance though that the Supreme Court will just
deney cert, and postpone judgment. A majority of justices currently on the court
do not want to have to rule on same-sex marriage at all.
@JSBSugar City, IDThe purpose for sex is reproduction: 1) to
unite the sperm and egg; and 2) to help the zygote to develop into a mature
individual. In the human species permanent heterosexual pair bonds have evolved
because it takes such a long time to train humans into mature, responsible,
productive adults. In the past this heterosexual pair-bonding has
been called marriage. Changing the definition of marriage will not change the
biological reality... If we legalize homosexual marriages or unions,
the biggest victims will be more children raised in dysfunctional environments
resulting in more crime, school dropouts, poverty, social unrest, disease and
misery.9:51 a.m. Jan. 6, 2014=====1. Nice
biology lesson. When is marriage defined by sex, and not love?
Animals have sex, yet animals are not married.2. And then you throw
out the evolutionary theories. Since when did you start believing in
evolutionary theories? Let me guess, when they suit your agenda?3.
The children being adopted by gays and lesbians were most likey already abused
victims living in more crime, school dropouts, poverty, social unrest, disease
and misery from their heterosexual parents. If anything, this gives them a
better chance to escape the viscious cycle.
@Ranch I would encourage you to reread the scriptures. I know of
many places where Jesus called on those to repent and sin no more. He stated
that we should strive to be as he- perfect and that his atonement would provide
a way to be forgiven of sin. As for me being a sinner as well. You
nailed that totally. I am indeed a sinner and when I sin, I with myself as with
others, hate the sin and love the sinner. SO thankful for the power of the
atonement working in my life. If only the gay/lesbian group would take their
sin to their Savior and allow the power of the atonement to work for them. This
would be the exact opposite of actively trying to legislate it as non-sin. Hate
to think who might be the grand architect behind those efforts.
Same sex marriage is here to stay and the great LGBT community of Utah will get
their rights back. So those who are jumping with glee that the future marriages
were stopped until Utah loses their appeals, better not jump too high. Love
will prevail and same sex marriage will become law again in Utah and other
states will follow.
SoCal Chris-Where does it say anything in the ruling that homosexuality is
being taught in school? If you deny a person a social right or privalege that
you currently enjoy because of one's color, creed or beliefs it makes you
prejudice. To justify it because of your religon does not change the fact it is
a prejudice. How your religon or any religon views and practices marriage is
not a relevant fact for this issue. The issue in front of us here is how our
goverment recognizes marriage. Quit with the straw man arguments about children
being converted to homosexuality if LGBT's are allowed the same privaleges
Justice delayed but we will not be denied, full citizenship full equality
CatsSomewhere in Time, UT"I must say I am surprised but pleased
that the Supremes did the right thing. Shelby should have immediately placed a
stay while the decision was appealed. The fact that he didn't shows his
activist bias. ANY good judge would have put the stay on and have allowed the
judicial process to work."--WRONG -- the Utah AG office
completely bungled the case. With typical lack of seeing the possibility of
losing, they did not file for a stay properly.If the voice of the
people has any power left in this country, this thing will be overturned.--Sorry that you are for mob rule. I would remind you that for most of
the history of the lds church, until recently, a popular vote on which religions
should be allowed would have gone against you.
@ duckhunter: Every other state has requested a stay before the judge issued a
decision - are you really trying to claim they all did it wrong and only Utah
did it right?Perhaps you need to review the FRCP.
@aunt lucy;Jesus may have called the sinners to repentance, but he
NEVER ONCE denied them a place at the table where he dined.You have
no idea how much we've "taken our sin the 'savior'". How
many hours we spent on our knees only to have NOTHING change. How many nights
we contemplated suicide because of our church or people like you who just
"love the sinner but hate the sin". Do you know how much harm you have
done? I hate to think who might be the "grand architect" behind all
that harm.The USA is still not a theocracy, and until we are, your
god takes no precedence over any other god.
All these people who are so afraid that children will learn about homosexuality
at school need to realize that their children are already learning about it -
they are learning about it from their homosexual friendsthey
are learning about it from children currently being raised by same-sex
parentsthey are learning about it from reading the newsand they are
learning about it because they are dealing with it themselves.All
prohibiting same-sex marriage does, is teach children that it is okay to have
parents that are not married to each other and that there are ways to form
families other than through marriage.By prohibiting same-sex
marriage, you are devaluing marriage as a social contract.So, yeah,
kids are learning about homosexuality and marriage, but not in the way you think
and probably not in the way you would prefer.
SoCalChrisRiverside, CA"'To Traditional Marriage
"supporters": Look. Knock off these tortured redefinition arguments.
Just come out and admit that you're opposed to letting homosexuals marry
because you don't like homosexuals.'"That's not true
for me and I bet it isn't for most opponents of SSM on this thread.
I've had friends, clients, relatives who were gay. I've treated them
all with kindness and respect. I don't have to think homosexuality is a
good thing to love the individual. I don't like drinking either but have
plenty of friends who drink."--- You need to consider that
married Gay people having sex MAY not be a sin, and certainly is not your
business to like or dislike. If you are not open to that, you do, in practice,
look down on Gays. "I don't want homosexuality taught to my
kids at school at a young age. That doesn't make me a bigot."--- Maybe it makes you someone who swallows propaganda.--- And maybe it
is helpful to kids to know that Gay people exist, in case they or classmates are
Gay, but NO ONE would teach sex practices to young kids.
re. Open Minded? MormonI've believed in evolution since I was
in high school and have a masters in biology. Biologically, we are a pair
bonding species and when societies have deviated very far from this norm, there
have been tragic consequences. If same sex marriage is legalized, then what will
happen next? Since there are no long term (multigenerational) studies that show
the effects of gay marriage on a human society, what we must do is try to
anticipate what might happen. "Families" with multiple partners (e.g. 3
men and 2 women or polyamory) are anxiously looking forward to legalization of
gay marriage because it will open the door to legalization of their
relationships. There are hundreds of thousands of these "families" in
the US today. And we could also see 3 or more men or 3 or more women wanting
legalization of their "families." After all, they claim to love each
other. This of course will lead to more venereal disease, divorce, child abuse
and neglect, poverty, crime and social chaos.It would be wise not to
mess with thousands of years of human evolution so that some people with
unnatural desires can have a so-called civil right.
SoCalChris says he opposes same-sex marriage because, "I don't want
homosexuality taught to my kids at school at a young age. That doesn't make
me a bigot."But, homosexuality is already taught to your
children at school at a young age. By other children. From their earliest
years, they hear anti-gay slurs aimed at them and others either for not
conforming to idealized gender stereotypes, or because children have learned
that it's the worst form of insult, a way to gain social capital against
your rivals. Strong, active girls and small or weak boys, or even just smart
kids, are regularly called gay and lesbian slurs.Is this the way
you'd like them to learn about gay people, or wouldn't you rather have
them learn that there's a place in society for everyone, that everyone has
strengths, that every child is loved, by God and their parents, and that
children who call other children names are just insecure bullies?
I think the phrase "Though the church has softened its stance toward gays
and lesbians in recent years..." may be a little misleading as according to
my knowledge the church's stance towards gays and lesbians has remained the
same. I think among the members there is a more heightened awareness of issues
dealing with gays and lesbians and that the church has addressed this increased
awareness with more frequency, however the message has been the same: Love all
people everywhere and be politically active in causes that you believe will
better society or against causes that you believe would damage it.
"I don't want homosexuality taught to my kids at school at a young age.
That doesn't make me a bigot." Ever watch an episode of
Glee? Teen wolf? If I don't want my children taught about
Mormonism, can I prevent them from getting married? No.
As such, the claim about what you want for children is moot. You don't want
your kids to learn something? Keep them at home. The
second you release them into the world with the rest of us, you are on your own.
And I should not be forced to adhere to your prejudices. Are the
supreme court justices LDS? I don't know, but more than half
the comments on this board mention God. Let me be clear. I do not
care, what your God thinks. I care, about what you are trying to
force, upon my life. Because marriage equality has never factually
brought harm to a religious persons teachings. But we have plenty
of examples of religious persecution. Inquisition, 9/11, shootings of Mormons in
the streets. This, is what we should go 'back' too? I disagree. Infringe on my rights? And Utah
deserves the scrutiny and ridicule that is coming.
"Ever watch an episode of Glee? Teen wolf?"No - And neither
do my children because it is voluntary. Attending Public School is not."You don't want your kids to learn something? Keep them at
home."Yes - All conservatives who believe in God should stay out
of public discourse and hide."And Utah deserves the scrutiny and
ridicule that is coming."Yes - Utah and 32 other states who have
the same law.
Being gay or having same sex attractions for whatever reason by whatever
circumstances is something that happens in this life to some people. To every
single person bashing gay marriage in these comments, you obviously do not know
what that it is like to be gay in America today and know what kind of suffering
and separation that entails. And that's unfortunate for you. You
concentrate so much on the sexuality aspect of it, that you forget that these
are real people with real feelings created in the image of God. To all you
happy-go-lucky heterosexually tended Utahns, I congratulate you. Thankfully,
your lot in life is a little easier because you don't have to have
something going on in your life that the majority of the country hates.
I'd much rather have to deal with sins against the Word of Wisdom, Tithing,
or even heterosexual Law of Chastity. All these things are forgiven in the eyes
of the Church, but for people who have homosexuality, there is no forgiveness,
and there is no support. Utah does not support its gay community--it condemns
it, and much of these comments support that fact.