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Letter: Voter ID

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  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 7:14 a.m.

    Voter ID laws would make sense if vote fraud were a problem. It's not. And there are other ways to sign up for insurance besides the internet.

  • 10CC Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 8:10 a.m.

    In this country many, many people are wary of the government, for legitimate and illegitimate reasons. This includes older African Americans, who were the victim of government studies that essentially left a number of black men go untreated for syphilis, just to see what would happen.

    Many African Americans who are older don't have government issued IDs, for fear that the old days of systematic persecution may return at any moment. My mother in law is in this category. The stories she tells of the "bad old days" would blister anyone's ears.

    Even if the US went with a Mexico-style national voter ID card - which has been impressively successful there in getting more people to vote - a lot of Americans would prefer to opt out, not trusting the institution that issued the IDs.

    It's a Catch-22 situation, but we shouldn't get heavy-handed with requiring government ID cards until significant voter fraud has been established, not the isolated, alleged incidents Glenn Beck likes to elaborate on.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 11, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    Voter ID laws make lots of sense.

    Until you dig into them.

    They "correct" a non-existent "problem". They stop many times more legal votes than illegal votes.

    And they are only being pursued because they can help the GOP win elections.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    @ Joe Blow,"They stop many times more legal votes than illegal votes". How do you know that? Please give us your source for your claim. Speculation? In what other country on this planet do voters NOT have to show an ID to vote? Answer: None, zero, nada! Even Canadians require an ID to vote and no one there is claiming what you claim!

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    M-man, how about the source for YOUR claim? And please stop trying to con us. It's no secret that the voter ID effort is 100% Republican. You haven't forgotten Bush's big search for a voter fraud problem have you? It was a waste, of course, because none was found - at least nothing that caused GOP losers to demand recounts.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    Google "the truth about fraud" the non-partisan Brennan Center did an extensive analysis of voter fraud.

    What would you put forth to refute it?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:47 a.m.

    Maybe if Republicans didn't do things like declare student IDs insufficient or what Texas is doing where names have to match (despite the state itself mandated for a time that married women should have their maiden name listed as their middle name on drivers licenses thus making it much more difficult to women to vote, even hindering a judge when voting in her own courthouse) it wouldn't be such an obvious attempt to suppress Democratic turnout.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Mark, go to Wikipedia and you will see a list all countries that require some form of photo ID in order to vote, except the US. Why do all dead people vote for Democrats?

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Nov. 11, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    I watched an elderly man at the polls last week struggling to find something to convince the judge that he was who he said he was. It was heartbreaking and humiliating.

  • JoeBobOfUtah Roy, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    Since voter fraud is such a horrible problem, where are the indictments, prosecutions, and convictions for this crime?? Since those numbers are almost zero, maybe the whole thing is a conspiracy created in the minds of money and power hungry "talking heads" on AM radio. We have a lot of problems in our country. We should focus on real issues in our society. If voting fraud is a real problem we should prosecute the offenders before spending a bunch of money on legislation that might not be needed at all.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 11:36 a.m.

    MMan: "Why do all dead people vote for Democrats?"

    Isn't it a little hypocritical to ask others for evidence when you present none yourself?

    But let's assume you are right. I would guess that dead people vote for Democrats because, having crossed over the threshold to enlightment, they see the rampant perfidy in Republicans (my opinion, no need to present evidence). Maybe you will do likewise when your time comes.

  • Brer Rabbit Spanish Fork, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    Back in 2008 Utah was giving driver's licenses to illegal alien using documents such as the Mexican Matricular Card. The next year the legislature set up the Utah Driver's Privilege card for those in the country illegally. In 2010 we had to take in a birth certificate to renew our license, even if we had already had a license

    The reason for this was an investigation into the problem. They only sampled the licenses and soon found hundreds of licenses given to illegal aliens, sometimes 20 or more to the same address. To register to vote in Utah all you had to do was check a box on the license application. They found that hundreds of illegal aliens had checked the box, and they found that some of them had actually voted, an example of voter fraud.

    It is very hard to detect voter fraud even where an ID is presented. Since there are very few cases some believe that it isn't a problem. I had cancer for years, but I didn't know it until it caused pain, and then it was almost too late. If we wait for voter fraud pain it may be too late.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Nov. 11, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    So, it's OK to follow the example of other countries when it comes to voting practices, but NOT for health care, right? And BTW, the "dead people voting" example isn't voter fraud at all. It's ELECTION FRAUD, where the crime takes place at the top, not at the individual voter level. Regardless, there's only one party determined to reduce the vote. It's not the Democratic Party.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Nov. 11, 2013 1:29 p.m.

    In a report released by the Michigan state auditor general reviews the Bureau of Elections, which is part of the Michigan Secretary of State office. The review found more than 1,300 deceased people were recorded as having voted in the last election.
    Apparently, the "dead people" voted because they did not have to show any ID.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    You can't even borrow a book from the library without ID. Why would we want UN-identified people picking our President (UNLESS.. you want people who shouldn't be voting voting)....

    You can't cash a check without ID... but we want people without any ID voting??

    You can't drive without ID. You can't register for school without ID. You can't function in society with absolutely zero ID... but we want unidentified people VOTING??

    Why would Democrats WANT totally unidentified people voting... Unless they WANT to encourage fraud?

    It's not hard to get ID. You are SUPPOSED to get a SS # for your child when they are born. So almost every person living and working in the USA should at least have a SS#.

    If you don't even have a SS#... what are the chances you are not really who you SAY you are. And that you are really qualified to vote (of age, who you say you are, a resident of the district you are voting in, etc)?

    We know for a fact that many people are voting illegally... why would Democrats NOT want to control that??

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:20 p.m.

    So an average of 350 a year out of 7.3 million eligible voters (the report you mention covers a 4 year span) in Michigan are dead/imprisoned people voting. That's .005%. Now, voter ID would end up preventing way more than .005% of people from voting (since it turns out a lot of people actually don't have an acceptable ID, and making them pay for some form of ID would be a poll tax which is unconstitutional).

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:20 p.m.

    re:Mountanman

    From the Michigan Office of the Auditor General, Audit Report May 2012:
    page 16:
    "Our review disclosed that the QVF voter history file showed that 1,375 unique deceased individuals
    were recorded as having voted a total of 1,381 times during the audit period."

    page 17:
    "The Department also informed us that in every instance where it appears a deceased person or
    incarcerated person voted and local records were available, a clerical error was
    established as the reason for the situation.

    The Department informed us that the examples provided did not result in a single verified case that an ineligible person voted."

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:25 p.m.

    The South has been known for voter suppression since the Civil War. And it is true they have learned some lessons from their corrupt behavior. Instead of the Democratic Party it is now the Republican Party.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 2:32 p.m.

    If you don't think there is any Voter Fraud in the recent election... Google "How widespread is voter fraud 2012 facts and figures"...

    46 of the 50 states have prosecuted or convicted voter fraud cases.

    More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.

    There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.

    More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.

    12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.

    The Ohio Secretary of State admitted that multiple Ohio counties have more registered voters than residents.

    Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.

    If this many people are TRYING to vote illegally... do you think not requiring any ID will make the number of fraudulent votes BETTER... Or WORSE?

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 3:00 p.m.

    The only voter fraud I've heard of in the past few years was a couple of Republicans who voted twice to "show" that they could get away with voter fraud. Except they didn't. Oops.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Nov. 11, 2013 3:10 p.m.

    The vast majority (90 percent) of the votes cast by the deceased were delivered via absentee ballot, although that still leaves 145 that voted in-person. - governing dot com

    The state had roughly 7.3 million people listed as eligible to vote during the time of the audit, so the cases represent a small fraction of overall voters. - mlive dot com

    This will not be corrected by voter id.
    Do you have anything showing that these "dead" people did not pull the R lever?

    You may want to support votes from the dead. That is quickly becoming the GOP base.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 11, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    "Five years after the Bush administration began a crackdown on voter fraud, the Justice Department has turned up virtually no evidence of any organized effort to skew federal elections, according to court records and interviews.

    Although Republican activists have repeatedly said fraud is so widespread that it has corrupted the political process and, possibly, cost the party election victories, about 120 people have been charged and 86 convicted as of last year."
    (NYTimes 2007)

    "A 2006 study by the Brennan Center found that 11 percent of U.S. citizens lack one, a figure in line with a 2005 report by an election reform federal commission which suggested 12 percent of U.S. citizens lack driver's licenses. Drilling down, the Brennan Center found that the groups worst off in this regard tend to be core Democratic constituencies: 25 percent of voting age African-Americans and 15 percent of voting age citizens who make less than $35,000 annually lack valid photo IDs."
    (USNewsWorldReport 2011)

  • SLars Provo, UT
    Nov. 11, 2013 8:43 p.m.

    To date, 46 states have prosecuted or convicted cases of voter fraud.
    • More than 24 million voter registrations are invalid, yet remain on the rolls nation-wide.
    • There are over 1.8 million dead voters still eligible on the rolls across the country.
    • More than 2.75 million Americans are registered to vote in more than one state.
    • True The Vote recently found 99 cases of potential felony interstate voter fraud.
    • Maryland affiliates of True The Vote uncovered cases of people registering and voting after their respective deaths.
    • This year, True The Vote uncovered more than 348,000 dead people on the rolls in 27 states. ◦ California: 49,000
    ◦ Florida: 30,000
    ◦ Texas: 28,500
    ◦ Michigan: 25,000
    ◦ Illinois: 24,000
    •12 Indiana counties have more registered voters than residents.
    • Federal records showed 160 counties in 19 states have over 100 percent voter registration.
    • The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud

  • Darmando Parker, CO
    Nov. 11, 2013 9:25 p.m.

    It might hard for people in Utah to understand the motive behind the new voter ID laws being pushed in some states because there is no way such efforts would change the outcome in Utah. In many states however, Republicans understand the more people who vote in any election the less chance the Republicans have of winning. Voter suppression is an ugly, obvious,and corrupt effort to win what can't be won when every eligible voter is allowed to vote.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 11, 2013 11:42 p.m.

    re:SLars
    "The Florida New Majority Education Fund, Democratic Party of Florida and the National Council of La Raza are currently under investigation for alleged voter registration fraud"

    "a top elections official announced that the Florida Division of Elections was investigating a second group, the National Council of La Raza, the largest Hispanic civil rights organization in the United States, for turning in THREE questionable registration forms in Miami-Dade County. But there have been far more problems with the Republican Party of Florida forms, which have mostly been filled out by Strategic Allied Consulting. Florida Division of Elections launched a criminal investigation into voter applications filed by Strategic Allied Consulting, a private firm hired by the Republican Party of Florida to register voters. Hundreds of questionable registration forms have been found in a dozen counties, spanning from South Florida to the Panhandle."
    (MiamiHerald 2012)

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 12:20 a.m.

    If you look at the stats from SLco in 2012, there were a number of ballots that were either duplicate or didn't meet the law. We have a good system. People need ID to cash a check. Having ID to vote is OK. Perhaps we allow expired DL for people over 80. Almost everyone else can get something currently listed.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Nov. 12, 2013 11:31 a.m.

    Re:Utah_1

    I can't remember the last time I cashed a check. It has been easily 30+ yrs. When/if I get checks, i take a deposit slip and go to the nearest bank where my account is. They never ask me for picture ID. My paycheck is direct deposited into my account. I use cash, debit or credit cards for all my purchases. I never get asked for picture ID unless I am traveling through an airport.

    Additionally, what constitutes an acceptable ID? If a student has registered to vote, and their name is on the voter roll, why shouldn't a student ID suffice? Why shouldn't a govt-issue Vet card suffice? Why shouldn't any picture ID and a utility bill suffice? There are many disabled people under the age of 80 who don't drive.

    Voter supression has been a strategy employed for many, many years by the Republican Party. Karl Rove reignited this tactic during the Bush years and it continues today.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Nov. 12, 2013 1:28 p.m.

    I am trying to figure out how voter id laws are any problem, even for the poor?

    The poor still need a valid id to do the following:

    Buy alcohol
    Buy tobacco
    Get a job
    Cash a check
    Get government welfare
    Fly on an airplane (yes some poor people do this on occasion)
    Get a driver's license
    Rent an apartment

    Did I mention that you have to have valid ID to get a job.

    With everything that requires an ID just to live, how is it that these poor people can't get ID, since they cannot get a job without proper ID?

  • high school fan Huntington, UT
    Nov. 12, 2013 6:51 p.m.

    I still don't understand why this is an issue, who doesn't have ID? Everything we do requires it, it is not a big deal to have it so why the big deal.
    Me thinks we complain just to complain.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 13, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    This pretense that Republicans are all about suppressing the vote is just complete Democrat partisan bunk.

    Republicans work just as hard as Democrats do to get out the vote. They just don't register as many dead people, none existent people, etc, as Democrat surrogates like ACORN and others do...

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 13, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Roland Kayser
    Cottonwood Heights, UT

    Re: "Voter ID laws would make sense if vote fraud were a problem"...

    Since your first comment on this subject significant evidence that voter fraud happens and IS a problem has been presented. Do you want to update your initial assumption that it's not a problem?

    Since there is DOCUMENTED evidence that voter fraud really IS a problem, and that voter fraud has been prosecuted and convictions handed down by the courts (that means there was evidence for the judge or the jury)... WHY would you want to make it even EASIER for voter fraud to occur?

    Why would you want to COVER for people who would tend to be involved in voter fraud??

    Showing your ID is not a big hardship. Getting ID is not a huge hardship. I don't care how much money you have or don't have... you CAN get a government ID. What does it cost to get a SS#??

    I don't know WHY Democrats would want people to be able to vote and not prove they are who they say they are (a registered voter)...

  • rabbut Ogden, UT
    Nov. 14, 2013 10:57 p.m.

    Scott, we gave up reason long ago. I, for one, would find it VERY reasonable to sit down at a restaurant and buy myself a drink without buying food. I would also find it reasonable to not see people commuting in monster trucks. While we are at it, it would be quite reasonable to stop gerrymandering congressional districts until we split up the biggest cities into a ton of districts to negate the votes there. It would be reasonable to expect the Republicans of Utah to be at least a LITTLE upset that their attorney general is selling "justice". Join with me Scott, in praying that we one day get the DABC off our backs and that 8 miles per gallon may turn a good way toward a reasonable 12 miles per gallon. Happy trucking!