I watched most of the amendments and floor debate live on streaming vid
yesterday. It took FOREVER, but parts were very interesting -- and
educational.The anti-gay crowd outside was incredibly rude. They had
monitors, so they knew who was speaking when -- and they'd intentionally
make even more noise when a pro-gay speaker had the floor. And one of the state
representatives would even go outside and further rile up the crowd on purpose
when one of his opponents was trying to speak. Very low class, IMHO.And one of the reps really had me scratching my head. She was incredibly
emotional, saying that outsiders (pro-gay people) were invading her state and
ruining her native cultural traditions and so on -- and on, and on. She
apparently doesn't realize that her own people -- the native Polynesians --
had no problems with things like homosexual relations, incest, and all sorts of
sexual variations, until the Christian missionaries came along. It was really
puzzling to see just how ignorant she could be (or could pretend to be) about
her own culture.And that lesbian rep who voted against the bill? --
yikes. Nuff said.Interesting stuff. Congratulations, Hawaii!
After being labeled hypocrite and pervert in posts on similar stories, let me
be clear. I don't believe in discrimination or persecution of
GLBT’s. But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the requirements
for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized marriage between a
man and a woman. I am open to the assertion that there may be
genetic predispositions toward same-sex attraction, but because of my religious
beliefs, I can't believe God would send us here with unhealthy
predispositions and then give us neither control nor ways to resist such
attractions.I know many of you don't believe the same doctrine
I do, but I'm just hoping someone out there will resonate with eternal and
I think brotherly love for all of God's children is the standard, whether
they are living a healthy lifestyle or not. None of us is perfect. All are
children of God. He isn't pleased when we (and I include myself)
transgress His laws, but He loves us anyway. But I still feel it my duty to
stand up for His truths.But, we can't say we haven't been
warned. There have been enough teachings against homosexuality from prophets
and past (not necessarily current) teachings from most denominations that it
should be clear to all the issues involved. We can't claim ignorance.
Some societies and nations may be able to claim they did not know, but not this
one. Both sides of these issues have been argued at length.
@rw123 --"But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the
requirements for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized
marriage between a man and a woman. "Fortunately, your opinion
is not what determines our laws, or their constitutionality.How do
same-sex couples act any differently from any other infertile couples?"I can't believe God would send us here with unhealthy
predispositions"Who says that homosexuality is unhealthy?Many species of animals out in nature practice homosexual behaviors.
They are quite natural, and quite common. What is "unhealthy" about
them?"I know many of you don't believe the same doctrine I
do"Right. That's the central point for you to keep in
mind."but I'm just hoping someone out there will resonate
with eternal and universal doctrines."Your doctrine is neither
eternal nor universal. Each religion, and each sect of each religion, has its
own particular dogma. There are thousands of such religions and sects across the
globe -- and there is no way for human beings to know which one is correct.
Who are those us of who have not walked in another's shoes to claim he is
unnatural, unhealthy, immoral, etc?Do we not trust God, that if he
made some people different, that they are as valuable as we are, and it is OUR
task to understand and accept them as equals, not theirs to beg us for
equality?Have we not noticed that many, many elements of the Old
Testament are not honored in modern life, remembering that God gave us the
ability to progress?LDS people, tending to have larger families,
produce thousands of Gay kids each year. All of the lds, in my mind, ought to be
praying that God shows the prophet how He wants all those children to be
integrated into the family, community, and church as equals.Recent
doctrine, saying to love all of them is nice, but there is no way that God wants
some of our kids to lead 2nd class lives, as if crippled or maimed, because of
how they were born.No outsider or government will force mormon Gay
temple marriages -- it is time for God to show the lds people how to truly love
all their offspring.
@worf --"A country of rights has transformed from a country of
responsibility."This country started OUT as a "country of
rights".Declaration of Independence: "We hold these truths
to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by
their Creator with certain unalienable Rights...""No one is
exempt from discrimination in some form."That's probably
true, if you stretch the concept of discrimination far enough.So
what? The widespread existence of discrimination is no reason to ignore it when
we have the power to eliminate offensive instances of it.
Offensive instances can be exaggerated to gain special privileges, like making
some one hire you for a job, or get punished. Not very honest, and
I am thrilled that Hawaii is the 16th state to legalize same-sex marriage. I
believe it is also very important that we change the laws to end discrimination
towards the LBGT community in their jobs and where they choose to live. It is
unconstitutional and needs to stop immediately. I hope someday that America
grows up and realizes that we are not the same and that no one has the right to
force their beliefs on others.
@worf --"Offensive instances can be exaggerated to gain special
privileges, like making some one hire you for a job, or get punished. "Again -- so what? Most laws can be abused if one tries hard enough. Is
that a good excuse for not having any laws at all?
As a fully committed LDS, I don't think people should choose same-sex
marriage. I think it will be sad for them in the eternal scheme. At the same
time, I also don't believe that my religious convictions have anything
whatever to do with the secular law. I uphold DC 134 which we should not
mingle religion with the civil law.
@Contrarius--you're free to have your own "so what" values. Just
don't force it on others.
@worf --"you're free to have your own "so what"
values. Just don't force it on others."It's called the
Constitution, worf. Complaining that discrimination is widespread or that laws
might be abused does nothing to change the validity of the Constitution or the
importance of following it.
Regardless of how legislatures vote...sin is still sin!!!
Congratulations Hawaii! :)@Irony,Shouldn't
"choose" same-sex marriage? What do you mean by that exactly? I'm
sorry, but your argument holds no water immediately after saying that. Gay is
not a choice. Logically, gay people, being humans that they are, will fall in
love. The next step is to marry the one you fall in love with. There is no such
thing as gay marriage, really anyway. There is only marriage. Two people in love
getting married. It's the same for straight and gay.
If you feel that a sin is still a sin, then your God can sort it out in the
after life. For those of us alive and on earth, the legislature actually
rw123 says:"But, same-sex unions (for me) don’t meet the
requirements for the rights and privileges given in a legally-recognized
marriage between a man and a woman."Then you shouldn't have
one, simple enough; but you have no right to define what marriage is for any
other couple. PS. Your "god's" will is irrelevant.@Rikitikitavi;Bigotry is a "sin", but that doesn't
seem to have stopped you from participating in that particular sin.
Same sex marriage will lead to 'unhealthy' life styles…? You mean like…life-long monogamy and commitment? 7
billion humans on earth today. Gay marriage has not brought anyone
any factual harm. If you are against gay marriage fine.
One less invitation to write.
'...to gain special privileges, like making some one hire you for a job, or
get punished.' - worf. Heaven forbid… that
LGBT should be expected to have JOBS! 'Study: Gay Men Offered
Fewer Job Interviews' - By Winston Gieseke - The Advocate - 10/04/11 'According to a study published today in the American Journal of
Sociology, men whose resumes indicate that they’re gay are 40% less likely
to be called in for job interviews, especially in the south or Midwest.'
– article FYI, ENDA passed the Senate. The
Republican dominated House, refuses to even vote on it.