Quantcast
Opinion

Letters: True colors

Comments

Return To Article
  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:49 a.m.

    "He says he is against Obamacare but do you hear anything from him on how to change things?"

    Uh, you do realize that your quote is also applicable to the guy you are praising, right?

    Repealing or defunding the ACA with no replacement IS "kicking the can farther down the road and hope that everything will be OK."

    The GOP would rather vote 40 times (with no chance of success) than to write replacement legislation. Why is that?

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:05 a.m.

    Wow. Three letters in one day extolling Mike Lee, and none on the other side. I guess we know where the Deseret News stands. One wonders whether the DNews is owned by Fox News. Fair and balanced, indeed.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:29 a.m.

    It's obvious that many people in Utah are upset with Senator Hatch, especially when Senator Hatch tells us that Mike Lee needs to be "rehabilitated".

    Senator Hatch is a disgrace to Utah. When the battle was on, he could not be found. He would not defend his oath of office which requires him to defend the Constitution. He cowered when Mike Lee and others stood up for the principles that govern this nation. Senator Hatch should be ashamed of himself. He should apologise to Utah for shirking his duty. He voted to kick the can down the road. He did nothing to pay the debt. He did nothing to remove ObamaCare, as he promised he would do in his campaign speeches. He showed us that he will duck for cover when the fight is on. Shame on him. Shame on his prideful attitude.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    Republicans, you built the Tea Party monster in your own astroturf-covered and FOX-fueled mad scientist's lab and the monster you created is, like all monsters, now turning its rage on you. It's in the monster's nature to destroy its creators. It's just what monsters do.

    Monsters don't know how to build anything, they only know how to wreck things.

    You built it - you own it - it's yours to get under control.

    And if you don't, then brace yourselves for decades of shrinking political relevancy.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    Mr Richards,

    Yes or no question

    Do you feel that the debt ceiling debate is the proper venue to change existing laws?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:08 a.m.

    "Sens. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Ted Cruz, R-Texas, have awakened the slumbering American public"

    You got that right. They have shown that some folks are dangerous. That they are ok with destroying the economy for the sake of "saving" us. That they believe in rule by the minority.

    Yep. We are all wide awake now.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    Joe Blow,

    ObamaCare is a tax. The Court told us that it is a tax. Nothing that the President says about it not being a tax can be believed. You know that it is a tax. I know that it is a tax. The House has the responsibility to levy taxes. It also has the right to remove taxes from us. "Existing law" has nothing to do with the authority of the House. The House has all legislative authority to tax us or to not tax us. The House must opporate within the limits placed on it by the people. It can tax us for 17 duties and only for those 17 duties that are enumerated in Article 1, Section 8 of the Constitution.

    The House can remove ObamaCare because ObamaCare is a tax. Do you deny that?

    The "ceiling debate" was a diversion. The Senate could have passed the budget that eliminated the ObamaCare tax. The President could have signed that bill. There would have been no phony shutdown and there would have been no phony "cry for help" about the debt ceiling. Do you deny that?

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    Mike Richards,

    "The House has all legislative authority to tax us or to not tax us."

    "The House can remove ObamaCare because ObamaCare is a tax."

    The constitution clearly gives taxing authority to the Congress which consists of BOTH the House and Senate. And that ALL bills, in order to become law, must pass both houses and have the President's approval unless both houses can muster super-majorities.

    Could the democratic House in the days of Reagan simply levied taxes without the consent of the Senate and President?

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    This whole socialism scare tactic is becoming weak and tired, and the dynamic duo of Cruz and Lee have not awoken a slumbering American movement. They've gone off to the fringe and poked at a small hornets nest.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Nothing that the President says about it not being a tax can be believed. You know that it is a tax. I know that it is a tax.

    From the WSJ - "Mitt Romney's campaign is aligning itself with President Barack Obama—and breaking from Republican leaders—by saying the government will be imposing a penalty, not a tax, on people who don't buy insurance as required by the new health-care law."

    I guess that Mr Romney can not be believed either.

    And, per your post. Congress, not the house must vote to impose or remove a tax. The house voted for the ACA. The senate voted for the ACA.

    Your contention that it is the House as opposed to all of congress is flat out wrong.

    "The Senate could have passed the budget that eliminated the ObamaCare tax. The President could have signed that bill. "

    I cannot deny that.

    But lets turn it around. The house could have voted to pass a clean CR without attempting to add a "caveat". The senate would have passed it and the Pres would have signed it.

    Debt ceiling talks are not the place to change laws.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    Mike,

    Let's turn back the clock to about 2007 or so and say that Nancy Pelosi and the Democrats that controlled the House shut down the government and threatened to default on the national debt unless Bush cancelled his tax cuts and defunded the war in Iraq.

    Would that have bothered you? I'm guessing it would have...

  • Confused Sandy, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:27 a.m.

    Mike Richards... "It's obvious that many people in Utah are upset with Senator Hatch"

    No Mike, Only the far right winged fanatics called the Tea Party are the only ones that upset with Senator Hatch...

    The rest of Utah WHO voted him into office, thinks he is doing just fine as our Senator...

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    @JoeBlow,

    The Wall Street Journal is not the Supreme Law of the Land. The Constitution clearly states that the HOUSE originates all revenue bills and that the Senate has limited authority to propose, concur or amend revenue bills. Article 1, Section 7: "All Bills for raising Revenue shall originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills."

    The HOUSE represents the People. The Senate represents the States. The People do not want ObamaCare and the House has represented the will of the People. The States do not want ObamaCare, but the Senate has not represented the will of the States. The President refuses to inforce ObamaCare - his signature legislation.

    When the People reject ObamaCare, the States reject ObamaCare and the President refuses to enforce ObamaCare, why do you defend ObamaCare? Why did Obama and Reid shut down the government for something that the President will not enforce?

    The Legislature can propose laws anytime, even if you think that they should not. Just because the President had a tantrum and shut down the government does not mean that the House must give in to his tantrum.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    Mike, I'll come to your defense. I don't much like Orrin Hatch either, but not because he's a RINO. I don't like him because he doesn't have a clue about the economic disaster the GOP has been pursuing for the past 30 years. If the tea party doesn't like him because he's calling their darling out for his ridiculous stunt of recent weeks, well, that's their prerogative. But it doesn't mean they have a better understanding of our true economic troubles than Hatch.

    And David, comparing the current tea party to the participants in the Boston Tea Party or the Minutemen is both historically uninformed and offensive to those of us who really do love our country and understand the root causes of our economic woes. Hint: the debt and Obamacare are not root causes. They are symptoms. So far, the tea party has yet to grapple with anything deeper than shallow anger over symptoms. Consequently, their solutions would exacerbate our problems rather than reducing or eliminating them.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:23 a.m.

    Last night on 60 minutes, former Deputy CIA Director Mike Morrell finished his interview with this statement,

    "What really keeps me up at night is the inability of our government to make decisions that will push our economy and our society forward. And one of the things I learned looking at the world is that a country's national security, any country's national security is more dependent on the strength of its economy and on the strength of its society than anything else. I think … there's been a change from a willingness of the two parties to work together to get things done to today, the two parties at each other's throat and simply trying to score political points…"

    Clearly there is a need for both parties to work together but when the House was finally able to vote on a reasonable funding bill 10 days ago, there was bipartisan approval. Unfortunately a majority of Republicans feared the Tea Party retaliation and voted against it, but enough brave Republicans did the right thing.

    As Mr. Morrell pointed out, it’s a matter of national security and folks like Lee and Cruz are putting us at risk.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:44 a.m.

    Mike Lee didn't put an NSA spy center here in Utah.

    Mike Lee didn't support the patriot act.

    Mike Lee didn't support drone strikes.

    Mike Lee didn't support NSA gropedowns.

    Yet he is the Extremist. Hatch and his ilk are the real extremists. They want to burn the constitution and bring in communism.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    Mike,

    I started to respond, but instead just decided to beat my head against the wall.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    The claim in this letter that Orrin Hatch is the equivalent of a British royalist during the Revolutionary War is not credible.

    We're disagreeing over a policy set by duly and legally elected representatives of the people. You may not like the policy but there are well-established, democratic means of changing it. Mike Lee and the other tea partiers tried and lost. Mitt Romney campaigned against it and lost. Those failures do not mean we live under a tyrannical government. The government of the United States is not in any way comparable to the British monarchy which governed the colonies prior to the American Revolution. Our governmen is legitimate, legal and democratically chosen. The president was legally elected twice by solid majorities. He can claim popular legitimacy for his agenda.

    Democracy is government by discussion. When teapartiers claim their opponents are illegitimate and anti-American they are attacking democracy, trying to stop disucssion.

    You may not like what Orrin Hatch said, but he is not a traitor and he is not allying himself with an illegitimate government. To claim otherwise is not consistent with democratic values and is unacceptable.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    Anyone that thinks this tepee "stirring the hornets nest" tactic is anything but a tool to raise funds is delusional. It was planned in January and executed with the help of Mr Lee and Mr Cruz. Patriots don't advocate revolutions. Rebels advocate revolutions and a coup dé tat and that is sedition at the very least. I think that is what we all have really witnessed. Funny how a (d) next to one's name brings out the ugly even when there is little difference in the policy. Me thinks reality has taken leave.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 12:28 p.m.

    What happened to the left's supposed "tolerance" of diversity? He just has a differing political philosophy than you. That doesn't mean he needs to be hated and reviled or sent to a re-education camp for political dissidents. This isn't Communist Germany! At least not yet.

    Tea Party people are not vile, they are not evil, they are just different than you. Do you think you can tolerate that? Sure doesn't seem like it.

    The occupy wall street people had a different outlook on where America should be. But that didn't mean I need to vilify them, or suggest they be taken away to camps to be re-educated for not marching in lock-step with the current regime. You just listen to what they have to say and see if there's any good in it. That's tolerance. Not pretending everybody who doesn't think like YOU needs to be rehabilitated until they do think like you!

    We need to be more tolerant of other people... including people who differ from yourself on political issues.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 12:48 p.m.

    ugottabkidn,
    Who asked for a revolution?
    Who asked for a "coup dé tat"?
    And who is criticizing anybody with a (D) by their name in this thread?

    You need to take a breath and step back from the coolaid trough and get in touch with reality for a moment. I think you will realize that he didn't ask for a coup dé tat, revolution, sedition, etc. That's all just rhetoric, overstatement and political over-reaction, and a perfect example of a strawman argument.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    JoeBlow,
    Obamacare has costs tens of thousands their insurance, tens of thousands work hours, and tens of thousands new jobs. Repealing without replacing would be better than leaving the trainwreck in place.

    Cannot answer for Mike, but the change to the law battle was just in funding obamacre, not the entire government and not the debt ceiling – that is what the dems pushed it to, so why don’t you answer your own question. The GOP voted to keep the government open, harry and BO voted to shut it down.

    Twin lights,
    TAX bills MUST originate in the house. The GOP elected in 2010 and reelected in 2012 were voted in to undo obamacare. You are saying they should NOT answer to their constituency?

    ECR,
    We need a strong economy. So why do support BO? Support of BO is incongruous with a strong economy. harry and BO put us at risk by shutting down the government to protect a bad and unpopular law.

    2bits,
    Tolerance from the left? Dream on!

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:03 p.m.

    Lost in DC,

    Sure they should answer to their constituency. I hope they answer next November. But whatever they felt voted in to do, the constitution is clear on how this works.

    Taxing bills originate in the House "but the Senate may propose or concur with Amendments as on other Bills." Also, that bills passed by both houses are "presented to the President of the United States; If he approve he shall sign it, but if not he shall return it, with his Objections to that House in which it shall have originated . . . "

    The process is simple. Absent a super-majority in both houses, You need Senate AND the President on board. That was simply not going to happen.

    They either knew or should have known that playing with the debt ceiling would be catastrophic. Former Treasury Secretaries and economists on both sides of the aisle were shouting this from the rooftops.

    They chose to ignore them because it did not fit their politics. It was pure politics and the worst form of governance - to allow (force) bad things to happen because you cannot get your way. It is childish petulance.

    Such men and women do not deserve to govern.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:38 p.m.

    twin lights

    the conservative GOP members had a strategy to defund obamacare. harry and BO turned it into a battle to shut down the government. the debt ceiling was also brought into play later by the dems, who turned the plan to defund obamacare into a plan to shut down the government.

    BO and harry chose to push it to the brink because what the GOP house passed did not fit harry or BO's politics. there are three branches of government and TWO major political parties. BO and the dems cannot dictate the terms of every engagements and predetermine the oucome. They chose to ignore the other side with a majority in the house. such people are not fit to govern.

    And there was NEVER a chance of breaching the debt ceiling. There was ALWAYS enough revenue to service the debt. people who use blatantly false scare tactics to govern do not deserve to govern. Too bad there are so many so gullible they believe them.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    "Mike Lee didn't put an NSA spy center here in Utah.

    Mike Lee didn't support the patriot act.

    Mike Lee didn't support drone strikes.

    Mike Lee didn't support NSA gropedowns.

    Yet he is the Extremist. Hatch and his ilk are the real extremists. They want to burn the constitution and bring in communism."

    Comments like these leave to question as to why Wash DC is at gridlock. You just cannot discuss anything with people who think like this.

    How sad.

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:17 p.m.

    The barrage of recent letters begin to blur the line between seriousness and caricature. I'm increasingly convinced that there's a computer program out there that simply mixes and matches phrases containing key words like "patriot," "socialism," "tyranny," "Constitution," "Tory," "Founding Fathers," "true conservative," and "uncompromising."

  • Unreconstructed Reb Chantilly, VA
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:19 p.m.

    "What happened to the left's supposed "tolerance" of diversity?"

    2 bits, try driving a car with an Obama bumper sticker in Utah before generalizing in response to criticism of your political views.

  • airnaut Everett, 00
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:24 p.m.

    @Anti Bush-Obama
    Washington, DC

    Hatch and his ilk are the real extremists. They want to burn the constitution and bring in communism.
    10:44 a.m. Oct. 28, 2013

    ======

    Oh my!
    My sides are splitting, and my eyes are tearing up!

    HaHaHa!

    Mike Lee is a "true" patriot,
    and Orrin Hatch, a Communist.

    Yep, pretty much sums up WHO the real extremist really is!

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 6:56 p.m.

    re: Mike R from SJ at 7:29a today

    Or, maybe Orrin is familiar w/ the Art of War by Sun Tzu...

    He who knows when he can fight and when he cannot will be victorious.

    Victorious warriors win first and then go to war, while defeated warriors go to war first and then seek to win.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:00 p.m.

    Lost in DC,

    If you listened to the financial folks (lots of them Republicans), the issue was this. First, there was not enough to pay all of the bills - Period. Second, if the US had to start choosing which bills to pay and which not to it did not matter which bills got paid and which did not. Either way it would be default and the repercussions severe. That is why Fitch put us under a credit watch.

    If you think it was the Democrats understand that it was ONLY Tea Party Republicans who said it would be no big deal. Not the older, wiser guys in the Republican Party and not the Democrats.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    EXCELLENT ARTICLE and spot on!!! Nothing to really add to this article other than to thank the D-NEWS for finally publishing something that represents the PEOPLE of Utah and not just the establishment elite. Take a look at the national debt - 17 trillion and growing and all because of good ole boy, get-a-long types like Orin Hatch. It is Hatch who has lost touch with the people of Utah and not Mike Lee. Mike is doing EXACTLY what he was sent to do in 2010.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:34 a.m.

    "....Sens. Mike Lee, R-Utah, and Ted Cruz, R-Texas, have awakened the slumbering American public from the same old trend of socialization that Hatch and many of the Republicans and Democrats are endorsing...."
    ______________________________

    So now even Orrin Hatch is to be deemed a socialist? With parameters like that being drawn, no one needs to castigate the Tea Party or its sympathizers as extremists. All we need to do is let them keep talking.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 11:04 a.m.

    re:Craig Clark

    Orin Hatch is not a socialist and no one is making that case. Orin Hatch - however - is NOT a conservative either having lived far too long inside Washington DC and become all too cozy with his friends across the isle who ARE MOST CERTAINLY socialists such as Harry Reid. What happens to a senator who has served too long is the same as bread that has sat on your counter top too long - they both become STALE and need to be thrown out. Can you site anything Hatch has done in the past decade that would demonstrate his conservatism? Anything? We are in DESPERATE need of senators who will FIGHT for our dwindling bill of rights and who aren't afraid to rock the boat in the senate to make a stand. The good ole boy - get-a-long Joe types are getting run over by the aggressive socialists who WILL destroy your rights and mine.