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Letters: True patriot

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  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:06 a.m.

    Wow! Orrin Hatch goes from being a 7 term Republican Senator from one of the most Republican states in the nation, to being compared to a communist despot with one statement. And the Deseret News has nothing better to print in today's letters than (3) letters all saying essentially the same thing - Orrin Hatch is a traitor, communist sympathizer, non-patriot, just like the pre-revolutuionary British subjects etc, and Mike Lee, who used his lack of understanding of how laws are passed and funded to cause a $24 billion deficit in just two weeks time (of course with the help of his new big brother Ted Cruz), is a true patriot and "can't be rehabilitated."

    I really do miss living in Utah. It was so entertaining.

  • embarrassed Utahn! Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:17 a.m.

    "for those who stand for freedom." Ha Ha! That's rich. I'd say "for those who cannot accept defeat and the will of the American People". Tea Party=Sour Grapes Party!

    Enjoy the next election folks!

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 5:17 a.m.

    Thank you , Rose, for your humor. I needed a good laugh to start my day, and your comment provided it.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 6:15 a.m.

    Mike Lee is certainly not a "true patriot". He's a grandstanding, self-important feeder at the public trough.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 6:57 a.m.

    Mike Lee stands for the freedom of irresponsible persons to get health care from the emergency room while those who were prudent enough to have insurance pay for it; the freedome of insurance companies to deny coverage for pre-existing conditions, and to cap coverage; and the freedom of right-wing politicians to shut down the government and to cause the nation to default on its debt payments. What a champion of freedom!

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:15 a.m.

    A Senator take's this oath of office, administered by the President: "I do solemnly swear (or affirm) that I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States against all enemies, foreign and domestic; that I will bear true faith and allegiance to the same; that I take this obligation freely, without any mental reservation or purpose of evasion; and that I will well and faithfully discharge the duties of the office on which I am about to enter: So help me God."

    Defending the Constitution is the first duty of a Senator. Mike Lee did that. Orrin Hatch did not do that.

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:18 a.m.

    Orrin Hatch isn't conservative enough?

    Oh yeah? Well... you know who _also_ isn't conservative enough? Mike Lee!

    Nope, Lee's not sufficiently conservative for my definition of conservatism. He's just a RINO.

    What this country needs is a _truly_ conservative patriot.

    See how easy this game is to play?

  • Sal Provo, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    Senator Hatch is a savvier politician than Mike Lee. He knew Republicans would win the ACA battle by allowing it to die of its own accord. Senator Lee's actions just strengthened the Democrats and the ACA. He had no chance of winning on this one and only hurt Republicans.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:01 a.m.

    Mike Lee did his best to save the country from the train wreck which is Obamacare.

    Orrin Hatch did nothing, but he talked a lot.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    Patriot is not the same as foolhardy. You can be one without being the other.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    Neither a true patriot nor a true conservative would try to destroy the world economy to get what they want.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    The freedom to NOT have health insurance is something that needs fervent defending? No wonder the GOP is so fouled up these days.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Defending the cause of freedom? Thanks for the chuckle.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    The far right goes father to the right. The extreme right is a tight corer as demonstrated by the universal put down of the tea party tantrum. The train-wreck is the off the rails tea party.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    Until the Tea's or the Republicans declare the don't tread on me crowd a third party, the real power of 10% of congress will not be apparent...no where near what they thing they have!

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    This uninformed letter tests the limits of my commitment to freedom of speech.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:29 a.m.

    The problem with freedom is that freedom for some may mean oppression for others.

    On the highway unlimited freedom to drive as one wishes can be viewed as the loss of others freedom to be safe in their worlds.

    If the farmer and or processor has unlimited freedom to create and modify food in any manner he pleases, consumers of that food may lose the freedom to live.

    Honest, decent and humane people readily trade their personal freedoms for the better freedoms for all people. Criminals oppose losing personal freedoms that give them power and control over others.

    If we are to honor and support the freedoms for people we have to control the actions of criminals.

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    Today's DesNews contains three letters strongly supporting Mike Lee and the tea party. Frankly, that's terrific.

    What it suggests is that people like Mike Lee, Ted Cruz and their backers haven't learned anything either from the 2012 election or from the recent shutdown fiasco. This will prove disastrous for the Republican Party in the 2014 election. It may mean that President Obama, with a Democratic Congress, will be able to push through much of his agenda in 2015 and 2016. This, of course, will be good for the country and especially for lower- and middle-income Americans.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:03 a.m.

    @Mark B "The freedom to NOT have health insurance is something that needs fervent defending?"

    Everyone think about this question. It reveals something about the liberal mindset that you really need to know.

    Yes, our freedom does need fervent defending. If a man weighs his options and chooses something other than health insurance, that is his choice to make. He shouldn't be forced to buy it. A government that taxes us in this manner has grown too large and intrusive.

    @Steve C. Warren

    You're not paying attention to the Obamacare rollout, I guess. We've seen only the beginning. Big Government is being discredited before our eyes, and its decline will take down Republicans and Democrats alike. Leaders like Mike Lee who tried their best to avoid the disaster will do just fine.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:04 a.m.

    How many times must I hear or read the silly parroted phrase "the train wreck that is Obamacare"? Good grief, people, do you not have the vocabulary to come up with something original, even if it's not accurate?

    What the polls are showing is that there is only one train wreck on the horizon in America right now, and it is the divided, contentious, unimaginative GOP. And guess who's driving the train? Ted Cruz, with his chief coal shoveler, Mike Lee, right behind him. What they don't see is that the bridge ahead of them fell apart because of lack of government funding for infrastructure. No problem. Full steam ahead.

    I'm impressed, though, that the Des News would find three letters to print on the same day that say the same thing. Scary. Oh well, I guess it is Halloween this week.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:18 a.m.

    Is this Mike Lee's great aunt?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    Good point on the "train-wreck" phrase. It is similar to "tear up their credit cards" or pass the debt "to the grandchildren". You would think that a group trying to get rid of present government and the present economy would have a complex plan instead of catch phrases. It is easier to spin negativity and conspiracy by short phrases than to actually attempt to govern. Senator Lee has proven that causing damage to the economy is not a viable governmental plan. The tea party needs to be voted out before they cause more damage.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    IMO... You've drunk too much government coolaid when you think we need re-education camps to rehab people with the audacity to disagree with the President or his administration.

    The Tea party haters posting today and people like Hatch sound like he have had too much coolaid and have lost their appreciation for diversity of thought, and just attack anybody who doesn't agree with the President or the party leaders and power brokers.

    I like that Lee will stick his neck out for what he believes in.

    We should not be punishing Congressmen or threatening re-education for people guilty of not going along with the President. That's way to gestapo for my liking.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    Nice diversity in the letters today.
    GOP is like the Keystone Kops...carrying ladders in a crowded room, spinning around....what a mess.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    "...You can't "rehabilitate" a true patriot. They will go to their grave defending the cause of freedom. Thank you,...".

    Totally agree...with a few exceptions...

    You can't rehabilitate a TRUE BELIEVER. They WILL go to their grave defending THEIR definition of freedom.

    There...all better.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Let met get this right. The liberals here are all for buying stuff now, and passing on the debt obligation to their children and grand children. Owing money puts you into servitude to others puts your security at risk and makes you a servant to that debt and your debt holders.

    The liberals also have no problem taking away freedom and imposing economic killing programs.

    Ok, so we have liberals defending and cheering the government growing in power and selling us into slavery. At the same time they attack anybody who says that we can't keep giving more power to the government and we can't keep adding to our debts.

    Now you liberals are saying that if a person actively works to limit the power of government and tries to cut the amount of debt the nation is taking on, that person is somehow evil? It makes no sense. Somebody fights to keep you safe, and you would rather have the insecurity of government "help"?

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:43 p.m.

    Roland,
    Thank you for admitting harry and BO are NOT true patriots, since they shut down the government to protect Obamacare.

    Mike in Cedar,
    Not surprised that a true liberal like you would wonder about the value of free speech! But you speak of the uninformed – you are referring to BO supporters, aren’t you. (statement – not a question)

    Steve Warren,
    Too funny!!! BO GOOD? for the economy, nation, and especially the lower class! Oh please, my sides are aching! You know the wealth gap has grown more during BO’s misadministration, don’t you? Talk about uninformed!

    Kent,
    “trainwreck” is the term given by –ITS AUTHOR!

  • ken12s North Salt Lake, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:44 p.m.

    People who shutdown the government, cause the U.S. To lose face and empower it's enemies, shock the economy and risk a global melt down are not called patriots they are either unstable at best or more likely traitors. There are better ways to disagree and change things!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    @ Mike in Sandy. You think the GOP is like the Keystone Kops...? Have you been asleep for a few months and missed the Obamacare mess, the NSA spying mess, the IRS abuses mess, fast and furious mess, Benghazi cover-ups mess, et al? Who are the real Keystone Kops creating mess after mess? All the GOP wants is some honest answers and a little accountability and you think they are the Keystone Kops? I suggest your ideology has blinded you to facts.

  • Mike in Sandy Sandy, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    Many of us are not "liberals' just because we think Lee and Cruz are so highly ineffective, and way out on Mars somewhere.

    It's that is not my Grandfather's GOP. It and it's loose cannons have no idea how to lead; only how to obstruct, criticize, lie, pad their own pockets and convolute matters.

  • Fred44 Salt Lake City, Utah
    Oct. 28, 2013 2:19 p.m.

    Mike in Sandy,

    Right on! Spoken like a true compassionate conservative who has watched the republican party leave me on the side of the road. The republican party is doing its best to push away anyone that is not completely lock step with the tea party. At the current rate we are going, the republicans will not even be able to hold onto the house even with its gerrymandered districts that make it virtually impossible to lose in.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    ken12s,
    You complain that the people who shutdown the government to bring attention to our growing government and out of control spending... cause us to lose face and empower our enemies... Funny I remember Republicans saying the same thing when Democrats in Congress threatened to defund the war on terrorism during the Bush administration. Were you writing these same letters back then complaining that Congress calling the President on anything is "empowering our enemies"??

    I personally think Congress defunding the war on terrorism and insisting the President give a deadline and promise to pull out of Afghanistan with our tail between our legs... would tend to embolden our enemies more than Lee's grand-standing.

    -Does a standoff on ObamaCare really embolden our enemies?
    -Does Congress trying to defund the war on terrorism embolden our enemies?
    Do you see my point?

    It's that you are totally blind on the one that really WOULD embolden our enemies, and pretend that this issue (which our real enemies don't care on iota about) will give courage to our enemies.

    Congress challenges the President on things. Obama isn't the first President to be challenged by Congress.

  • Res Novae Ashburn, VA
    Oct. 28, 2013 3:33 p.m.

    @Mike in Sandy,

    Thank you for putting it succinctly in your 1:55 post.

    I used to consider myself a moderate conservative. Heck, I even voted for Bush II. I don't think my political views have dramatically shifted. But until the GOP's civil war ends by moderates regaining control from the fanatics or the Tea Party splintering off on its own, I won't vote for them outside of local politics (maybe not even then). The party is so obsessed with casting out so-called RINOs, sneering at the poor and minorities, and hoping that it's 1776 (or 1861) all over again that they are marching themselves into irrelevance nationally. Based on national polls, I'm far from alone in feeling that way.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    What an absurd notion that patriotism only knows one political party - or even worse yet - a singular ideology. If anything, demanding that everyone think, believe, and act like you, is the antitheses of Patriotism. It is sad that the title "Patriot" has become so hijacked and warped in perverse ways to demand a singularity of thought, and a purity and loyalty to a specific ideology.

    A true patriot is one who is willing to sacrifice ones own self to ensure all people have the right of conscience, whether that means people agree with you or not.

    What is being proposed here by the Tea Party types is the furthest thing from patriotism.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:19 p.m.

    You can't "rehabilitate" a true patriot. They will go to their grave defending the cause of freedom.

    ========

    Fine, suit yourselves.

    But that is NOT a "true patriot".
    A True Patriot wouldn't have trampled the Untied States Constitution like Cruz, Lee, and their lemmings are doing.

    I'm a Veteran and have sworn the same oath that Ted and Mike are now breaking.

    BTW - Does not make a very good Mormon either.

    AoF 12.We believe in being subject to kings, presidents, rulers, and magistrates, in obeying, honoring, and sustaining the law.

    The Law's the Law.
    If you don't LIKE it, change it.
    But do it by getting the required votes [per the Constitution].

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Oct. 28, 2013 4:44 p.m.

    Did Freedom Works send out a mass email for everyone to write letters bashing Hatch and calling Lee a Patriot (comparing him to those at the Boston Tea Party?)?

    It sure seems we've seen the exact same letter for about 3 straight days now. Coincidence? I think not!

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 28, 2013 10:23 p.m.

    "Sal
    "Senator Hatch is a savvier politician than Mike Lee."

    We don't need politicians in our government. What we need are patriots. Mike Lee is a patriot of the finest order.

    "He knew Republicans would win the ACA battle by allowing it to die of its own accord."

    Obamacare will not die of its own accord. It has to be killed... something like you'd slay a nasty dragon.

    @Roland Kayser:
    "Neither a true patriot nor a true conservative would try to destroy the world economy to get what they want."

    The folks who tried to destroy the world economy to get what they want are Obama and Harry Reid. They refused to negotiate on, or even consider, any of the several points the Republicans put forth to try to bring our ballooning national debt under some kind of control. Hence the government shut down. And who shut it down? The president, of course. He runs the government. He sent the word to close the parks and memorials. It wasn't Boehner or Republicans. They have no authority to shut anything down... except maybe the House, which remained open.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    The tide is going out with the tea party. Senator stated the collapse of the tea party.

  • RedShirtCalTech Pasedena, CA
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:03 a.m.

    To "Open Minded Mormon" what has Cruz or Lee done to trample the constitution? Have they single handedly implemented any law without congressional approval? Have they taken over the Presidency? Explain how 2 senators by themselves can enact any law that destroys the constitution?

    You realize that the Obama administration has done more to destroy the Constitution than your imagination attributes to Cruz and Lee.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil "What is being proposed here by the Tea Party types is the furthest thing from patriotism."

    Which proposals? Getting our spending in line with our income? Avoiding a budget-killing federal program?

    I say, if you love your country, protect it from the forces that tear it down. Crippling debt will do that to us.

    Partisans who would rather shut down the government than negotiate a budget will also do that. You should go back an re-examine who those people were. I'll give you a hint: there was someone who said during the shutdown, "We will not negotiate."

  • Semi-Strong Louisville, KY
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    T. Party,

    Who was shouting "shut it down" at rallies? Moderate (what we used to call conservative) Republicans? Democrats? Nope. Tea Partiers.

    The gray heads in the party warned them. They would not listen. Re-read Senator Bennett's piece prior to the shutdown. This was Tea Party driven start to finish. Period.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:19 a.m.

    per Res Novae yesterday afternoon

    As its Halloween time, you could have referenced Salem, Mass in 1692.

  • RFLASH Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    I guess all us democrats are anti American? How self righteous can it get? Sen Lee has done nothing but bash Obama for absolutely everything! He hasn't had any plans of his own, for anything else! He has no plans to improve healthcare. He has no plans for anything! that is all it takes to be a true American? You know, whether you like what Obama has done, or not, at least he has done something. I personally worked with stimulus funds and I seen the good that it did. It has been disgusting the way in which Republicans have carried on, as if they were a bunch of crying children. They scream and they pout in hopes that they will get their way! The only thing thay stand for is making sure all the entitlements go the wealthy. They certainly care little about the average American and they are far from being the heroes of this nation, at least right now! If he is so great, tell me, what has he really done? It is easy to bash the plan of others. Where is his plan! Huh?

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    Great letter. Agree 100%. In 2010 we saw some new fresh smart senators born (Mike Lee being one of them) who had the courage to stand against the national media, the communist left, and the progressive GOP to STAND for conservative principles.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    Recent Rasmussen pole has Obama aligned voters at 42%, Tea Party aligned voters at 42%, and the balance undecided. I think the old guard should move aside and let the young move in.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 29, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    T. Party... you are right... Obama said "We will not negotiate, send us a clean CR".... if we want to do the full quote. Trying to kill unrelated legislation through the budget process is a dishonest act, regardless of who the one promoting the act is.

    I will give you another hint.... Lee and Cruz also said they would not negotiate. Their form on negotiation was along the lines of saying " you pick... I either kill your daughter, or your wife, you choose". No more was Obamacare seriously on the table than was gun control ever negotiable either.

    It is time that a budget bill, is a budget bill. Pure and simple.

    You want Obamacare repealed... propose an alternative. Until then.... just saying no is not negotiating, by either side.

    And lets be clear.... the US has never had its spending in line with its income....never. Not in over 200 years. This "budget" chatter is just air cover for a whole lot of other issues.

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    Semi-Strong,

    Can you give us any references to your story about all the tea party people shouting "shut it down" at rallies? I must have missed that news story. Maybe I don't listen to the same news you listen to. I can't find anything about it on the internet either though. Maybe YOU just made it up?

    I would love some references we can google to read the story.

  • Semi-Strong Louisville, KY
    Oct. 29, 2013 3:43 p.m.

    Lost in DC

    Google Mike Pence Shut It Down

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Oct. 29, 2013 8:21 p.m.

    2 Bit,

    Semi-Strong here.

    Sure. Try "Mike Pence Shut it Down". Comes with video. No need to read.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Oct. 29, 2013 9:36 p.m.

    @Semi Lights

    Those are from 2011.

    @UtahBlueDevil "Trying to kill unrelated legislation through the budget process is a dishonest act...."

    Take it up with James Madison.

    "The House of Representatives can not only refuse, but they alone can propose the supplies requisite for the support of Government. They, in a word, hold the purse; that powerful instrument by which we behold, in the history of the British Constitution, an infant and humble representation of the People gradually enlarging the sphere of its activity and importance, and finally reducing, as far as it seems to have wished, all the overgrown prerogatives of the other branches of the Government. This power over the purse may, in fact, be regarded as the most complete and effectual weapon, with which any Constitution can arm the immediate Representatives of the People, for obtaining a redress of every grievance, and for carrying into effect every just and salutary measure." (Federalist #58)

    You disprove your own point when you call Obamacare non-negotiable. Non-negotiable by whom? Lee and Cruz called for negotiation from the outset.

    "You want Obamacare repealed... propose an alternative."

    Anyone who says we haven't, is just not listening.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    Oct. 30, 2013 2:46 p.m.

    I could never understand how a guy from Pa. get elected in Ut. in 1976, then stay in office all these years.

  • homebrew South Jordan, UT
    Nov. 7, 2013 4:28 p.m.

    I lovehow the Gop uses words like patriot, freedom,the constitution. Most of the Nutcases dont know crap. You always hear "This isnt what the american people want" We the people voted in 2012 for our president. Obamacare was part of the scenario. The american peple have spoken! Get over it! If you dont like the results, Go out and try again, to change it, by winning an election. Dont try to ell me your fantasy dreams of what the american people want. We found that out a year ago, when we sent Romney packing