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Letters: Government-run health care is a bad idea

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  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:09 a.m.

    It's a good thing that Obamacare isn't government run healthcare. Every part of the system is still privately owned. Hospitals, Doctors, Clinics, Labs, Pharmacies and Pharmaceutical Companies, and Health Insurance Companies. Every single one of them, still privately owned and operated.

  • rabbut Ogden, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:46 a.m.

    The only thing that is clear is that electing people who want to shut down the government is probably not the best idea. The tea party has been telegraphing this since their inception and it should come as no surprise that they shut down the government they so despise.

  • sergio Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:35 a.m.

    A worse idea would be to leave it to big business.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 4:22 a.m.

    The conservative tea party and Senator Lee invoked the hostage of government unsuccessfully defund or repeal a funded established law. No following law and procedure is the real danger to our country.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 8, 2013 5:03 a.m.

    "Do you really want a government that enjoys threatening the welfare of our citizens in charge of our health care?"

    Of course not Roseanne.

    Because the whole healthcare system was running just fine before. NOT.

    With an aging population, the trajectory of healthcare costs will bankrupt our country.
    We pay the highest in the world and get far from the best outcome.

    We can either do nothing (GOP plan) or try something (ACA).

    I'm a gambler. Because I know the GOP plan (do nothing) is not sustainable.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 6:20 a.m.

    Lots of people agree with the letter writer. For decades this was "discussed" but no one ever made a move to try and do anything.
    Democrats didn't waste their chance when they had the house, senate, and presidency.
    Our job now should be to amend the bill over time to get it right.

    If you don't have a alternative solution, its going to be hard to be heard.

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 6:23 a.m.

    I hope Roseanne never needs to use her "private" health care. She's likely to find they won't cover what she's already paid for. They'll find some "pre-existing condition" (i.e., she was born) to deny her coverage.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    Oct. 8, 2013 6:23 a.m.

    Agreed that Gov't run health care is a bad idea... but doesn't it seem that the gov't is getting the necessary things done? I don't see how shutting down a few parks, while keeping all necessary gov't services proves your point that well.

    What one could assume that in the future the gov't would become so dysfunctional as to not maintain even services that they deem as necessary. Course if we get to that point, then the army would be offline and whether we can see a doctor might be one of the leasts of our worries as a country.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    Having an Obamacare waiver is a prized possession. The rest of us will suffer.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:51 a.m.

    As always, Roland Kayser has corrected the mis-information portrayed in Roseanne's letter. But let's also be clear, "government run" healthcare programs around the world have proven t be more effective and more cost efficient than the current (pre-ACA) system found in the United States. Insurance companies exist for one reason - to make money for their shareholders. With that as their first priority, is it any wonder than claims go unpaid, often for bogus reasons, because the insurance companies know that the common man doesn't have the time, energy or money to pursue the claims further and will probably not fight their decision to not pay a claim. Despite the clever advertising claiming otherwise, the private insurance company's task is to keep as much of your premium as they can. That is priority number one for them.

    It has been suggested by its opponents that the ACA is the first step on the road to a single payer government run program. I can only hope for that day to get here sooner than later.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    I watch Fox news quite often.
    There is always a rant that Congress has exempted themselves and their staffs from Obamacare.
    No explanation. Just that they are exempt from it.

    That is misleading and disingenuous. I hear it repeated frequently.

    Here are the facts.

    The ACA was intended for people who were uninsured or did not get employer paid insurance.
    It excludes employers from pushing their employees onto the ACA and then subsidizing their coverage.
    R - Chuck Grassley introduced an amendment that Required all of congress and their staffs to get their insurance through the ACA.

    NO one else is required to get health insurance through the ACA.

    So, the effect is that all of Congress and their Staff (many who are paid very little) would lose the health care subsidy that has been around for decades.

    An exemption was made to allow the employer (ie government) to continue to pay part of the insurance premiums. Why should they lose the health coverage subsidy that they always got?

    SO yes, congress and staff are given an exemption that others do not get, but they are also required to participate when no one else is.

    At least know the truth.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:23 a.m.

    Single payer healthcare is a good idea. It need not be 'government run', at least not at the federal level.

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:24 a.m.

    I forget, was it Ronald Reagan who said, "In my estimation the Republican far-right is hopelessly witless"?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    The biggest issue I have with Obamacare is forced participation. Why not give people a choice? If you love Obamacare, knock yourself out, sign up. But forcing Americans to participate is just wrong. Being forced to do something is an evil principle and is doomed to fail.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    Re:Mountanman

    Q: Has the Obama administration allowed corporations to "opt out" of the new health care law?
    A: No. The government has granted more than 200 waivers, but these merely give companies a temporary delay before being required to improve the coverage of cheap, bare-bones plans they currently offer.
    (Factcheck 2010)

    "looking at the numbers of waivers that have been given to both union and non-union groups, we don't see any pattern that would support a case for special treatment. The number of waivers are a small sample of all health plans, and many more waivers were given to big companies and corporations. We looked for additional information or evidence on this point and didn'tt find it."
    (Politifact 2012)

    Q: Is it true that there are bills in Congress that would exempt members and their staffs and families from buying into Obamacare?
    A: No. Congress members and staffers will be required to buy insurance through the exchanges on Jan. 1.
    (Factcheck 2013)

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    @ Mountainman

    What about the military draft?

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:36 a.m.

    First, let's throw out the notion that ObamaCare has anything to do with healthcare. It does not. It is no more about healthcare than Social Security is about security. Both programs are simply TAXES that take a huge amount of money out of the private sector and then transfer that money to the federal government so that politicians can spend it on their pork projects with a "promise to repay" in the form of an I.O.U.

    We know what happened to the Social Security funds. They are gone. Politicians have plundered the treasury for their own benefit without any concern for the citizens.

    Now, we also know that politicians will throw all of us under the bus if they don't get their way. Obama was given a chance to help America and this is the way that he repays America for trusting him. He refuses to negotiate until ObamaCare if fully funded. What more do we need to know about ObamaCare? It was passed because of crooked backroom deals. Now America is being held hostage if ObamaCare is not funded.

    Only foolish or corrupt politicians would allow ObamaCare to continue.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Mtnman,

    "But forcing Americans to participate is just wrong."

    On the surface, your statement sounds reasonable. (although that was the premise of the Heritage foundation and Romneycare)

    What happens when someone in a young middle class family, who could afford insurance, but decides not to, gets sick (cancer perhaps) or has an accident.

    They gambled and lost. So, what happens?

    Do they not seek treatment? Of course not. They head to the hospital and rack up potentially hundreds of thousands of dollars in costs. When they cannot pay, the costs get spread out among everyone else.

    So, my medical costs go up because this family decided to forgo insurance.

    Is that fair?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 8, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Ajax. Last time I check there is no military draft. We have an all volunteer military.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Re:Mountanman
    Hayden, ID
    "The biggest issue I have with Obamacare is forced participation. Why not give people a choice? If you love Obamacare, knock yourself out, sign up. But forcing Americans to participate is just wrong. Being forced to do something is an evil principle and is doomed to fail."

    Right
    I hate being "forced" to go a certain speed on highways, wearing a seatbelt, adhering to zoning laws, buying car insurance etc etc etc.

    And my kids have it right. Forcing them to go to school and church is just wrong.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    Truthseeker. Your comparisons of obeying speed laws and attending school and forced compliance to Obamacare are irrational. Why not just force everyone to obey a dictator? That's exactly where your "logic" takes us. Freedom is a wonderful thing for most of us at least.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    @Mountanman
    "The biggest issue I have with Obamacare is forced participation. Why not give people a choice? If you love Obamacare, knock yourself out, sign up. But forcing Americans to participate is just wrong. Being forced to do something is an evil principle and is doomed to fail."

    I love how people who voted for Governor Romney have such strong opposition to Romney's own concept.

    "Last time I check there is no military draft."

    Not currently, but those selective service cards have a purpose you know...

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    Greed based healthcare is an even worse idea.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    Mountanman:

    I can assure you from personal experience (via a summons from Uncle Sam during the Vietnam War) that the United States has had a military draft (perhaps you are too young to remember or otherwise were able to avoid the draft). That it does not presently utilize that power does not diminish Ajax's point, nor that of Truthseeker, that the government has the power to force us to do many things not of our own free will. What you are arguing for is anarchy.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    Re:Mountanman

    #1) Last time I checked, we live in a democracy. We vote. "We" are the govt. But living in a democracy means that sometimes one's favored "team" doesn't have the power necessary to implement changes. So, we get to try again every election cycle to change the balance in our favor.

    #2) If by "force" you mean we don't have choices, you are wrong. We have choices. But we don't have choices absent of consequences. And so it is with secular and religious institutions.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:43 a.m.

    Roland Kayser
    Re: "It's a good thing that Obamacare isn't government run healthcare"...

    But as Obama and his supporters have said, "this is the first step, it will take a decade to get to government singlepayer system". And as many left-leaning posters have posted here... they are disapointed that we don't have government run healthcare, and WISH we had government run healthcare. For those people I say, "Try Medicare or Medicaid and see if you like it".

    To those who WISH we had government run healthcare...

    1. Name one thing the Federal Government runs well (meaning efficiently, fairly, cost effectively, and with a focus on the satisfaction of it's customers)... waiting...

    Even the main thing the Federal government is supposed to run (the military) has more waist and cost than it should have.

    Post office? (Keeps having problems and cost overruns and customer satisfaction problems, while private deliverers are growing in popularity)

    Schools? (Most people prefer private schools over government run schools).

    Legislating? (if you call a 4% approval rate a "Success"... then I guess we like the way they are legislating).

    Transportation (full of waiste, and mostly private contractors anyway)

    out of words...

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    @Roland Kayser:
    "It's a good thing that Obamacare isn't government run healthcare. Every part of the system is still privately owned."

    Obamacare is the first step in the process of a single payer program. Of course, Obama doesn't want the government to own everything... just control it all. He wants the government to tell you what healthcare services you can and cannot get. He's already told the elderly 'if you need serious healthcare just go home and take a painkiller.'

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 9:54 a.m.

    Being loyal to a government involves some risk, but, for every government shutdown, there are many thousands of private shut downs, failures, discrimination's and misdeeds by private enterprise.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:01 a.m.

    @ECR:
    "It has been suggested by its opponents that the ACA is the first step on the road to a single payer government run program. I can only hope for that day to get here sooner than later."

    It should be here in time so that, when you get old and need a hip replacement you can hear the government tell you to just go home and take a painkiller... and get a wheel chair to move around in.

    @JoeBlow:
    "There is always a rant that Congress has exempted themselves and their staffs from Obamacare."

    Congress is merely enjoying what Obama said: 'you can keep the insurance you have.'

  • Ajax Mapleton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    @ Mountainman

    How disingenuous. Do you really think that the military draft is no longer an accepted option in time of war?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    @2 bits
    "Try Medicare or Medicaid and see if you like it".

    Alright, then let us try it. Democrats wanted a Medicare-buyin to be an Obamacare exchange option but Republicans and a few insurance industry shills like Lieberman eliminated that. The insurance industry hates it because Medicare is the most efficient (due to a lack of profit motive they operate at something like 5% overhead compared to the industry which is more like 15-20% to the point that Obamacare bans insurance companies from spending less than 80% on care).

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    Ultra Bob
    Re: "Being loyal to a government involves some risk"...
    I think you can be loyal to a government and still not want them to run everything. Just because you don't want them to run something doesn't mean you are dis-loyal. The founding fathers wanted a very limited Federal Government. Were THEY "dis-loyal"?

    atl134
    Re: "Medicare is the most efficient".

    If you really believe that you need to open your eyes. Google "Medicaid fraud" and read some of the articles if you don't believe me. 60 Minutes, ABC News, NBC News, etc have reported on it for years. Stories like this one...

    Updated April 2013. Overview. Fraud and abuse in Medicaid cost states billions of dollars every year, diverting funds that could otherwise be used for legitimate healthcare...

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:21 a.m.

    2 bits:

    You do realize, don't you, that Medicare and Medicaid are not the same thing? So why do you attack the efficiency of Medicare by citing instances of fraud or abuse in Medicaid?

    And do you really think there is no fraud or abuse in the private health care system or in the health insurance industry? If so, you are beyond naive. The only difference is that the objects of fraud and abuse in the private health care/insurance system are the patients and premium-paying insured persons.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:26 a.m.

    "1. Name one thing the Federal Government runs well (meaning efficiently, fairly, cost effectively, and with a focus on the satisfaction of it's customers)... waiting..."

    VA Hospital right here in SLC! Ask any vet about the service they receive there. Highest ranked patient satisfaction in the Intermountain Area.

    _______________

    "The founding fathers wanted a very limited Federal Government. Were THEY "dis-loyal"?"

    If they just wanted a very limited Federal Government, they would have stuck with the Articles of Confederation. Can you tell me why they wrote the Constitution instead, making the Federal Government the Supreme Power?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    Cannot spin the tea party backdoor maneuver and failure to vote on clean bill. Every act of legislation not passed unanimously has people against it. Do they get to subvert the process?

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    Curmudgeon,
    I do know that Medicaid and Medicare are not the same thing. My first job out of college was to write software to calculate the expected reimbursement for hospitals, and I developed logic for both of them. So I know they are different. But they are both "government ran" healthcare examples, are they not? And they are both full of abuse, fraud, and graft. That's not from me, that's been documented by every mainstream news organization I know of.

    I also know that hospitals and doctors hate to have to deal with Medicare and Medicaid... because they know they will get the Government runaround and huge hassles to get reimbursed, and they won't get paid what their work is worth (just what the government thinks they should get). Private insurance also puts limits on what they will pay, but their reimbursement rates are MUCH more in line with what the care actually costs than Medicare and Medicaid.

  • WRK Riverton, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:19 p.m.

    to Roland Kayser: have you not seen all of the privatly owned areas around the US that have been shut down because the Federal Government had some hold on them?

    What part of "really bad idea" did I miss?

  • 2 bit Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:20 p.m.

    Lane Myer,
    Re: "VA has highest ranked patient satisfaction in the Intermountain Area"

    Have you ever been in the VA Hospital? I have. Not as a patient, but on a service mission. Back then conditions at the VA Hospital were TERRIBLE. I'm serious. I would visit patients at the UofU and the VA everyday... and I would NEVER want to be put in the VA hospital. Conditions there were terrible and patient's seemed to be treated very badly.

    VA does not get the highest customer satisfaction ratings in the intermountain area. And that's not my opinion. They actually do patient surveys. Google "Best Hospitals in Utah" to see the results.

    According to US News and World Report...
    #1 Intermountain Medical Center
    #2 UofU Med Ctr
    #3 LDS Hospital
    #4 Utah Valley Regional Medical Ctr
    #5 Intermounatin McKay-Dee Hospital Ctr
    #6 St Marks
    #7 Timponogos Regional Hospital
    #8 Dixie Medical Ctr

    Hint... VA didn't make the top 8, let alone #1.

    Just because you say something... doesn't make it so. Do some research. The VA does not in FACT get very high rankings as a hospital.

    More evidence Government Hospitals are not "best" or "most efficient".

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    To "Roland Kayser" you are wrong. The Federal Government does have its hands in healthcare, and can use it against anybody who is either signed up for insurance through the Federally operated exchanges or else depends on government subsidies to be able to afford their insurance.

    To "JoeBlow" and what has changed under Obamacare?

    Insurance is more expensive and covers less.

    No new doctors were added to the system, so now getting care will cost more, and bankrupt the nation as a whole instead of only a few people who were not prepared for retirement.

    Doing nothing was a better plan than the ACA because insurance rates would not have increased as much and benefits would have remained the same.

    To "Truthseeker" if I don't want to be forced to obey laws on the roads, I have a choice to NOT buy a car and drive. I don't have the choice to NOT buy insurance anymore.

    What good has ever come to the world through the use of Force?

    FYI, we don't live in a democracy, we live in a representative republic. Go and read the Constitution.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    "All right, but apart from the sanitation, medicine, education, wine, public order, irrigation, roads, the fresh water system and public health, what have the Romans ever done for us?"

  • Howard Beal Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 12:54 p.m.

    We have to register for the draft mountman. To me that is one step toward the draft and of course in any large global conflict would be invoked...

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    2 BIT: Have you ever been in the VA Hospital? I have. Not as a patient, but on a service mission. Back then conditions at the VA Hospital were TERRIBLE. I'm serious. I would visit patients at the UofU and the VA everyday... and I would NEVER want to be put in the VA hospital. Conditions there were terrible and patient's seemed to be treated very badly.

    ----------

    You need to go back there. Pres. Bush had the VA Secretary upgrade everything in the VA Hospitals. They are top notch right now. Go see what your tax dollars can do in the way of cost effective, patient focused - MEDICINE. It is amazing the change. Ask patients that go there if they are pleased with their government controlled healthcare. Then go ask anyone on medicare if they want that healthcare to go away. Again, they don't. They really like Medicare. Surprise! Healthcare run by the government. It can work.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Oct. 8, 2013 2:33 p.m.

    Re:Redshirt
    Democracy--broadly speaking, not the specific type of democratic govt which we have.
    Dictionary definition democracy:
    a : government by the people; especially : rule of the majority
    b : a government in which the supreme power is vested in the people and exercised by them directly or indirectly through a system of representation usually involving periodically held free elections
    2
    : a political unit that has a democratic government

    You can absolutely refuse to buy health insurance. You may be assessed a fine, but you can also refuse to pay the fine.

    You can choose to not purchase a car, or not to have kids, but are you not "forced" to pay taxes for roads and education anyway?
    You can also refuse to pay taxes.

    The individual mandate was a Republican idea, based on the principle of "personal responsibility," requiring people to have "skin in the game."

    If you don't like the individual mandate, then why don't Republicans devise a system where proof of insurance or proof of ability to pay is required up front before anybody gets medical treatment?

  • E Sam Provo, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 3:37 p.m.

    Medicare is government-run health care. It works great.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 4:21 p.m.

    To "Truthseeker" but we don't have a rule by majority. We elect representatives, there is no majority rules. In addition to that, we are a repubic.

    Since the IRS is going to be running the ACA, if you refuse the pay the fine, the IRS has the power to garnish your wages.

    If I don't buy gas, I won't pay for roads. If I never buy a home, I won't pay for local schools. Also if I don't ever earn enough to pay state income taxes, I will never pay for education.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Oct. 8, 2013 4:37 p.m.

    The government is too much involved in health care already; let's not make it worse and more intrusive yet. The private sector charges too much and doesn't do a great job either but at least I don't have to go to the doctor's, at least I don't have to buy health insurance under semi-private medicine and private insurance. Seeing doctors just encourages them.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 8, 2013 6:11 p.m.

    Put that along with the other Tea-Party "We hate all things Government" such as the military, Police force, Social Security, Fire Department, health, sanitation, infrastructure, communications, etc.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:11 p.m.

    For the 10,000 time...

    Healthcare is NOT government run,
    ACA is NOT Government required.

    If you don't what it, don't get it.
    There is NO Government doctors, hospitals, clinics, or services.

    Just like Car insurance, mortgage Insurance, or Home owners insurance --
    Buy private insurance,
    or
    pay the fine.

    To the Tea-party of "personal responsibility",
    ACA allows people the chance to BE responsible.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 8, 2013 7:31 p.m.

    "Letters: Government-run health care is a bad idea"

    And there in lies the whole problem with the whole argument. We no more have government run medical care then we have government run automobile insurance. You are mandated to take care of your own health by buying your own insurance, rather than rely on everyone one else to subsidize your care because you don't have insurance.

    Every single person who uses the medical system without insurance cost everyone with insurance more. Why is it unreasonable to make people buy their own insurance... so we don't have to pay for their care through higher bills and higher insurance rates ourselves.

    Reagan mandated hospitals must render care - regardless of a persons ability to pay. I very noble cause, but it just forced their cost to everyone else. It is time these people stop being subsidized by everyone else, and buy their own insurance.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 9, 2013 5:56 a.m.

    @moiuntainman...... in principle, I agree with you. You should be able to opt out.... but other things would need to go along with that. The Reagan rule that hospitals must render care also has to be nullified as well. You can't have people with a "right" to care... without the responsibility to pay for that care.

    What happens is people opt out of paying for insurance, then something happens, the get services, the hospital tries to bill, and the person doesn't pay. Often the provider tries to recover the cost - at a much higher cost - but in many cases, those funds are not recoverable.

    With rights, comes responsibilities. Putting the responsibility on others because you choose not to do so yourself, often the conservatives mantra about entitlements, applies here. You can't have the right - without the responsibility. If you don't like the responsibility, you should also lose the right as well.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 7:32 a.m.

    To "Open Minded Mormon" if government doesn't run healthcare, then tell us, who runs the ACA State Insurance exchanges? Who runs Medicare? Who runs Medicaid? Who runs the VA? Last I checked, those were all government run insurance programs, or healthcre.

    But if I don't want to buy car insurance, mortgage insurance, or homeowner's insurance or any other insurance policies, there are ways to avoid it. If I don't want car insurance I won't buy a car. If I don't want mortgage insurance, I will rent. If I don't want to buy homeowner's insurance I won't buy a house. I still have a choice there, I don't have pay any "tax" becaue I didn't buy those insurance policies. With health insurance, if I don't buy it I will be taxed, and if I refuse to pay then the IRS will garnish my wages or close my business.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Oct. 9, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    Difference being Redshirt... is if your house burns down, and you don't have insurance, we don't end up covering the bill for you. With medicine, the equivalent would be that a builder would be required to provide you with basic housing - and that cost would be passed on to the rest of us. Same with your car... we are not required to pay for your car to get back into basic running condition after an accident if you are uninsured.

    But with medical treatment, you are guaranteed essential medical treatment -- regardless of if you have insurance or not. YOu simply show up at the emergency room.... and the rest of us pay for it.

    I think it is also funny that today Kobe Bryant - one of the most well paid athletes out there - just returned from Germany getting medical treatment he could not get, at any price, here in the states. It is a complex issue... with no simple solutions.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Oct. 9, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    Anyone who has spent time on the telephone dealing with the IRS on a tax issue is well aware of the maddening frustration of dealing with the federal government. The incompetence, the bureaucracy, the inefficiency , and combine all that with the threats against your livelihood are reasons to be desperately afraid and angered that the IRS will be the Obamacare secret police so to speak. The IRS was used to intimidate conservative groups prior to the 2012 elections and there should be no doubt in anyone's mind - liberal or conservative - that the same intimidation is going to be used by the IRS to enforce Obamacare. Surgeries will be denied if you are found to not be in alignment with the politically correct ideas of the day and a member of the "correct" political party. This is NOT America but it IS Barack Obama's new socialist state of affairs complete with many of the same intimidation, spying and other tactics used by other socialist regimes of the 1930's and 1940's in Germany not to mention the old cold war USSR. If you are not afraid - you ought to be.

  • Janca salt lake city, utah
    Oct. 9, 2013 12:40 p.m.

    Dear 2-BIT --
    Please do your research before making comments like this that are BLATANTLY FALSE. The US NW&WR list here of hospitals does not include ANY VA Hospitals in the ranking. This kind of FALSE information, trying to prove your point, makes it clear that you are quick to make accusations, but not to take some time to find the truth. I think everyone from now on may shrug a bit, when they see your "Well, THIS says THIS!" And I would hope that they check your facts themselves.

    "According to US News and World Report...
    #1 Intermountain Medical Center
    #2 UofU Med Ctr
    #3 LDS Hospital
    #4 Utah Valley Regional Medical Ctr
    #5 Intermounatin McKay-Dee Hospital Ctr
    #6 St Marks
    #7 Timponogos Regional Hospital
    #8 Dixie Medical Ctr
    Hint... VA didn't make the top 8, let alone #1.
    Just because you say something... doesn't make it so. Do some research. The VA does not in FACT get very high rankings as a hospital."""

    So, Mr Bits, Please DO SOME RESEARCH. VA Hospitals were not allowed in the study, much to the chagrin of researchers. PLEASE DO YOUR RESEARCH before telling others to do theirs.

  • redshirt007 tranquility base, 00
    Oct. 9, 2013 1:35 p.m.

    The government is already all up in the healthcare.

    The consequences of requiring medical school, licenses and drug regulation is that 40 million US citizens can't afford to go to a DR. Fix it.

    Either deregulate everything and make ALL drugs and remedies perfectly legal to acquire and use or fix the unintended consequences of making it necessary to see a Dr for prescriptions and remedies. Why should it cost $300 for 5 minutes of a Dr's time?!

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Oct. 10, 2013 6:14 p.m.

    " You can't have the right - without the responsibility. If you don't like the responsibility, you should also lose the right as well."

    You shouldn't be receiving the right to have subsidized or free insurance, if you can't be responsible enough to buy it on your own, independently without the subsidy. Finally I agree with Blue. Rights and responsibilities, that's where its at.