Last evening a traditionally liberal friend of mine was lamenting the actions of
the Congressional far right in the shut down. I reiterated my off stated point
that the far right is not interested in governing, it is interested in
ideological purity.I explained my belief that the tea party is to
the Republicans what the new left was to the Democrats and is ultimately bound
have the same effect: Crippling the Republicans for a generation. On that
score, I said, we should probably be celebrating.My real concern, I
declared, is the impending fight over the debt ceiling. With a brief
explanation, he kindly dismissed my concern as catastrophic.Well,
today, I received confirmation of my fears. Boehner declared he would prevent a
fight over the debt ceiling. My observation is that when Boehner says one
thing, he is unable to follow through or does the opposite.Trust me:
The Federal Government shutdown is just the appetizer. The main course is a
fight over the debt ceiling. I can't wait.
The speaker will ditch the tea party radicals thankfully. This will be a major
chapter in civics study. How to a minority attempt to overturn established law
Obama has bent over backwards trying to reach a settlement.Just like
he'll cut the deficit in half, and not sign any legislation which would add
a dime to the debt.To spend money we don't have is
irresponsible, and unpatriotic.We won't see our taxes go up a
single dime in any form.These are words coming out of his mouth!Only an uneducated public would keep believing his words.
One thing about a situation created by anger and cynicism, more isn't
To "Jonathan W. Fink" why is it just the Republicans that are "
interested in ideological purity". The fact that the Democrats, including
Obama, have said that they will not support anything other than funding the
Obamacare along with the rest of the federal government.If Obamacare
is so great, lets fund 99% of the government, then have a meaningful debate over
funding Obamacare and making it apply equally to all US citizens (getting rid of
No let's put some more laws into funding debate. I think we can just defund
the DOD entirely. If not we'll just keep the government shut down. Republicans can't even decide if this is Obama's shut down or
their own "slimdown". Whatever the polls say I guess. What principal!
@ one vote:Do you realize that Congress had to overturn established
law when it got rid of slavery and when it allowed women to vote? For Congress
to work at overcoming bad laws is not a bad thing in and of itself. That is,
unless you are a liberal who believes that only his ideological causes should be
preserved at any cost... even if it means furloughing hundreds of thousands of
people. Please remember that the buck always stops with the
President... just like he has previously stated. That means unless he actually
takes some action to get this resolved (something he has so far failed to do),
then he still holds the primary responsibility. Just like he said
about the Republicans, Obama could end this thing in 5 minutes if he would just
agree to give to the American public the things he's already chosen to give
unions and certain of his special interest friends concerning Obamacare. To
treat all people the same would be the morally right thing to do, and is all
that the Republicans are now asking for. They've already compromised from
their initial demand. So why can't he?
Until the President and both Houses of Congress accept the facts and work
together to fix it this fiasco will continue. The facts are that we have
both a spending problem and a revenue problem. What needs to be done is to
reduce spending until there is no deficit spending occurring for 30 consecutive
years. Then they need to raise additional revenue above that to pay down the
Nat'l Debt to return it to $4bn. That requires working together to do what
is best for the Nation as a whole.
@HutteriteAnger and cynicism, does help.--That's why the
Revolutionary war led to a free country.When people are
silent,-freedoms are lost.
The Republican Party has already compromised by agreeing to delay Obamacare by a
year, instead of out right defunding it. It's the Democrats who are not
willing to compromise at all.
Oblamer and his minions haven't taken responsibility for anything yet. It
is no surprise that the "shut down" isn't their fault either.
Broken promises, divisiveness, lack of leadership, and believing you are smarter
than the rest of us are only a part of this administrations problems.
Latest national poll results:57% of American want to delay Obamacare
for 1 year.This is the Republican position in the House.Sorry Democrats but the tide is turning against you.
While I don't know that I would be opposed to delaying the individual
mandate for a year while people test the waters with the insurance marketplace,
I do not feel that the bill to increase the budget ceiling is the place to do
it. Especially when you consider that the ACA(obamacare) is funded regardless of
this bill. How many parents "negotiate" with their children
when they're having a tantrum in the middle of the super market wanting a
treat after you told them before you left that they're not getting a candy
Michele Bachmann, one of our leading Republican spokespersons, is one hundred
percent RIGHT! Rep. Bachmann was at the World War II Memorial, actually said,
‘The shutdown is exactly what we wanted. We got what we wanted.’
A good day for the tea party is when government is having a bad day.”
Why don’t you people understand that TeaPublicans view obamacare as a
threat to the country, and that we ARE willing to use all tactics, including
blowing up the economy if we have to, in order to get rid of obamacare! Yes, I
know I tell this you all the time, but we TeaPublicans ARE taking back our
America in 2014 and 2016….and when we do, we ARE taking back obamacare!
Its just a fact of political life folks. Just a fact of political life in our
@Jonathan FinkThere are 21 Republicans in the House who are willing to
vote for the Senate's version of the continuing resolution. Presumably
these 21 Republicans consider the debt ceiling to be a more serious issue to
avoid. If necessary, Pelosi, one of the best speakers in history*, can round up
the votes to use the House maneuver to force a vote if a majority sign on to
something.*Note to conservatives who think she's awful...
I'm defining best speaker as having the ability to maintain party unite,
pass bills, and being an organized vote counter (she never lost a single vote
she called while speaker, Boehner has lost around a dozen at this point).@Redshirt"If Obamacare is so great, lets fund 99% of the
government, then have a meaningful debate over funding Obamacare and making it
apply equally to all US citizens (getting rid of the exemptions)."No, because Republicans are not interested in meaningful debate over funding
Obamacare and they would obstruct funding for it no matter what especially if
it's isolated. Democrats aren't stupid so they won't do what you
The thing I mentioned in my previous post that Pelosi can do is called a
discharge petition. Democrats are about to put one together for the gov't
shutdown. If a majority of House members sign onto it it'll force the House
to have a vote on the Senate continuing resolution.
And... apparently the hurdles to obstructed discharge petitions are such that
it'd take around 10 days to get to a vote. That's annoying. Okay, I
guess Pelosi can't force the issue to avert debt ceiling default.
We'll just have to rely on Boehner having the stones to say no to his
radical extremists who unknowingly (I will assume ignorance over malevolence)
want to do more damage to the economy (by defaulting) than Al Qaida could ever
Redshirt,The debate on Obamacare has been done, done,and redone.
It is the great American sham to pass a law when nobody really knows what the
details are, for a democrat to announce that a bill must be passed to learn what
is in it, demonstrate the utter contempt our leaders have for american people
and it shows the blind, drunken greed for power and control. The point we are at
now, started years ago when the bill was passed. It's a terrible law,
policy etc. in fact it is criminal.All in are favor of a great
health care system but lets not put the government in charge, it is welcome to
regulate commerce but not control it (see the Constitution).There
have been to many qualifiers, escape clauses, unregulated fees and money and
favors for this law to be taken seriously. It is a sham at best. Do
over. Start from ground zero.
Why is it that you never, ever, ever see an AP story with a headline like,
"Republicans say it's time for Democrats to do [something decent or
intelligent]" ?(I know why; just sayin' that accepting
AP's premise on this or anything else is just a bad idea]
Presidents are servants of the people and negotiate with their leaders for the
best of the country. They do not pit one group of people against the other. They
work to unify.Dictators rule irregardless of what people want and
won't budge with their "my way or the highway." They refuse to
negotiate because they are in control.
@worfMcallen, TX@HutteriteAnger and cynicism, does
help.--That's why the Revolutionary war led to a free country.12:42 p.m. Oct. 4, 2013=========== It's also what
destroyed the Nephites.
Fans of the Tea Party---you got what you voted for. Happy?
Republicans----You already have your tax cut. You've put a lot of
gov't employees out of work. You should be content now. Time to move on.
Having lived in countries with dictators, people are cautious about anything.
People disappear and some are never seen or heard of again. Killing fields
happens in many countries without freedoms as we enjoy, such as having a real
constitution and a government of executive, legislative of two branches and a
court system with a Supreme Court. Some have these various entities but are not
functional except for the military or the dictator with the military backing.
The people in Europe between the two WWs were aghast when they were
taken over by their friends and partners. Who was in charge? What clandestine
plans were done behind the doors of freedom? We have to be cautious in our open
form of government. People expect legislators of their district to protect
them. Senators are to be statesmen and diplomats and accorded that status for 6
years between elections. When a President runs for 2 years for his office and
utilizes a CHAOS or crisis for his benefit is not what our country needs. When
I hear him say "I" "I" and "I" instead of we or for us,
I wonder what road he is on. Dictators like to use "I".
Obamacare has not been debated, ever. It was rammed into law and then the two
sides pontificate its good or its bad points, but no debate has ever happened
because the law continues to evolve so that no one is even sure what it will do.
I'm with the teaparty folks on this, set it aside for at least a year
until "we can see what's in it", I think if the truth of
what's in it ever was brought into the light the vast majority of the
American people would want it repealed. Its bad legislation followed by
Tea Publlican says : Rep. Bachmann was at the World War II Memorial, actually
said,;The shutdown is exactly what we wanted. We got what we wanted; Wrong my
liberal commentor. What she said was "This is exactly what we had hoped for.
A full one year delay, a full year defunding. It is a full delay of one year of
the taxes, a full delay of the funding including all the advertising. Its
exactly what we asked for and we got it. So were very excited. Thats why I think
we can all vote. Oh no The WP misquoted her and along with the Post the King
also musqquoted her. Misinformation something new for BO? Yea right. But while
we are at it how about this one. Senior Admin. Official: 'We Are
Winning...It Doesn't Really Matter to Us' When Shutdown Ends.Pay
particular attention to the last sentence. Care to rethink who is the
Why is it that the Democrats never compromise? I can not think of one item, one
mandate, one principle or value that the Democrats have given up. Its always the
Republicans that are expected to compromise their values. We got higher taxes,
Obamacare, the DOMA was defeated, the "bailouts", the "stimulus
package", bigger government, IRS and Benghazi scandals with no answers, we
got the NSA all because the Democrats got the Republicans to
"compromise" their values! Compromise is only for Republicans values,
Perhaps some of you liberals should take a look at a list of 100 companies who
are laying people off because the companies can afford Obamacare. Find it on
the Sean Hannity website. Also quote from the article: "My
observation is that when Boehner says one thing, he is unable to follow through
or does the opposite." That shoe fits Obama BETTER than anyone else.
The "Headline" to this AP Story exposes media bias. Democrats say
it's time for Republicans to end the Shutdown. Really? Isn't it just
exactly the opposite? Isn't it also true that Harry Reid could end the
shutdown by taking up any of the various appropriations bills the House has sent
over to him? A lot of those bills passed earlier this year along with
significant Democrat support. Yet harry will not consider them at all, content
to just blame Republicans.The national media are largely in the tank
for Obama. They always have been and he knows that, and is why he's
emboldened to do what he does. Outrageous. Wake up people!! If this is Hope
and Change, I want a Refund!!
Someone actually said the threat to force ruin to force a repeal of an
established law by a minority is reason to compromise with them. This
recognition of illegal subversive obstruction should not be supported our
encouraged. IF we go through shutdowns threats by either party every sic months,
better redo the Constitution.
There is an aphorism that applies so well to this situation. "Don't cut
off your nose to spiteyour face". The 'Obama Shut Down" has
closed revenue producing visitor attractions. Has hamperedtax revenues,
such as business surrounding those attractions, the gas/airline taxes raised by
people getting to those attractions and finally offending those who have
traveled here from overseas for the purpose of seeing these wonders of the
world. Amazing that money is being spent to 'guard against
offenders' here on American soil when we leave such in foreign lands to
contractors who hire locals who run at the first sight of trouble.When I
see the Obama's giving up their vacations and parties because of the
financial problemsengendered by the Democratic spend, spend, spend
obsession then I will believe that the President is really serious about dealing
with the debt.
@ alt34:You lost all credibility concerning anything else you had to
say when you claimed that Nancy Pelosi was one of the best Speakers of the House
ever. Nothing could be further from the truth about this often semi-inebriated
egotist who is most best known for her infamous "That's why we have to
pass it (Obamacare), so we can see what's in it" statement. She is
truly scraping the bottom of the political barrel.
To "atl134" in other words, you are saying, sit down, shut up, and just
do what the Democrats want.If Obamacare is so great and perfect, why
is it that Obama had to give so many businesses, Unions, and government agencies
special exemptions to portions of it? Why did he have to delay implementation
of parts of it for businesses? With just those problems already identified,
shouldn't we slow down and at a minimum fix it so that the law will be
applied equally and fairly?Why do you want to jump so quickly into a
law that is poorly written and is already causing so many problems?