40 votes to repeal the ACA have already failed, so not they're taking
Re: "not by making the country, individual workers and the general economy
suffer through a government shutdown"...Exactly how is the
general economy "suffering through a government shutdown"? Have you
seen how the Stock Market has responded (with a yawn).Are you
individually suffering? How?The news may be able to find people
willing to wail for the TV cameras about how they are suffering from the
shutdown... but how many people are going to wail about their insurance rates
going up a coverages going down under ObamaCare? And how many people work for
insurance companies in the United States that are going to be unemployed if
ObamaCare is successful in destroying the private insurance companies in the
USA?Do you think the news will cover the impact to the economy and
the people unemployed by the closing of US insurance companies when they start
going under one by one? Unless they find other jobs (maybe yours or mine, or
net new jobs) that's a LOT of unemployment.
Shame on all of us for not doing a better job of electing leaders who would have
nipped Obamacare before it ever got this far. The problem is not government
shutdown but a disaster disguised as health care. The "affordable"
health care is not that at all. Better a shutdown than failure to stand up for
What a total falsehood!The House passed a budget. That is their
duty. The duty of the Senate is to concur and to add amendments (if desired).
The Senate is not authorized to originate budget bills, which is what Harry Reid
did when he subtracted from the bill passed by the House.The
Democrats shut down the government. The Democrats closed the parks. The
Democrats shut off WIC. The Democrats refuse to pay the National Guard. The
Democrats refuse to pay the workers at Hill Air Force Base. The House funded
all of that. The House funded everything except ObamaCare. Obame had a tantrum
and threw everyone under the bus because he didn't get what he wanted. The Republicans had absolutely nothing to do with the government
shutdown - no matter what Obama and Harry Reid tell us. They shut down the
government. Those two men have personally caused the havoc that troubles
Shame on the radical Democrats!!
Agreed, but when you said;"I heard many of them state they
did not want government to close..." That was AFTER the
shutdown.Mike Lee and many others have said, and were on full time
campaigns for MONTHS prior to, that they DID want a Government Shutdown.Be careful for what you wish for...
Is it time to refer to Democrats as obstructionists now?
The real reason we have a partial shut down is because of Obama and Harry Reid.
The Republican controlled House has sent numerous funding bills to the Senate
and like the dictators they are, its their way or NO way!
Shame on the author and all the other venomous partisans who insist that this
government shutdown was purely one party's fault.BOTH sides
have dug in their heels and refuse to cave into the demands of the other side
and are thus both equally responsible for the shutdown. Only the most partisan
hacks refuse to acknowledge this.The Republicans have at least
backed off their initial hopes of completely defunding Obamacare and have moved
towards a compromise. The president and the Democrats in the Senate so far have
not budged an inch.
Both sides are behaving like infants. It's time to sit down like adults and
discuss how to make the health care law work and mitigate its unintended
consequences. This is what grownups do.
I'm proud of Mike Lee for having the courage to take a stand. Obamacare has
done enough damage already.
Mike, I do request that you show me anywhere in the Constitution anything that
confirms this: "The House passed a budget. That is their duty. The duty of
the Senate is to concur and to add amendments (if desired)."The
House has refused to take up the budget that was legally passed by the Senate.
The House has used partisan brinkmanship to bring the country to its knees. You
notice, I am not singling out a party but rather 1/2 of Congress.Now, if you would stop reading right wing propoganda and listing to talk radio
and actually went out into the big and scary world, you might notice that many
people that don't work for the government are having a severe impact due to
the shutdown.Hotels, restaurants and tour operators all have taken a
direct hit due to the closuer of national parks. Other businesses will see a
similar drop in revenue due to a loss of 800,000 consumers.The stock
market doesn't control revenue. It is based on the assumption that this
will be resolved soon and include a debt ceiling fix. If that doesn't
happen, the stock market will go down further.
This shutdown is wholly owned by the Democrats. Obamacare is 100% owned by the
Democrats. NO Republicans voted for it. The House is listening to the American
people and refuses to fund a one-party law that MOST of the country doesn't
want and can't afford. Affordable Care Act? Are you kidding me?
Here's an idea - since Obamacare was passed with ONLY Democrat votes, how
about ONLY Democrats be forced to participate - with the very first ones to sign
up being Obama and the House and Senate Democrats?
Re:MikeBoehner added, refreshed a favorite GOP talking point:
"The Democrat-controlled Senate, it hasn't passed a budget in more than
1,000 days."House Republican Paul Ryan: The U.S. Senate
Democrats "have gone without any budget at all" for almost three years.
(2012)The Senate passed a budget this year. Sen.
Patty Murray, D-Wash., Budget Committee Chairwoman has attempted to go to
conference on the Senate Democratic budget more than a dozen times this year.
Each time Republicans have objected, worried that their House colleagues would
agree to a deal on funding the government, raising the debt ceiling, or both.Democrats have gone to the floor 18 times to try to get a conference on
the budget.Speaker John Boehner halted a vote last week on a
two-month continuing resolution to keep the government funded.(Sept 2013)
The Affordable Care Act was first conceived and written by conservative
republicans. The only reason they oppose it now is because The President
implemented it. That is the only reason. Had Bush passed the ACA, then
repubs would love it and the country would be much better off for it.This
shutdown is due to the extremist who want to destroy the country.
@ booshway. Brilliant idea! But don't you find it amazing that the
Democrats that gave us this mess exempted themselves and their friends from it
with waivers? Too bad for the rest of us stooges!
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahWhat a total falsehood!The House passed a budget. That is their duty. The duty of the Senate is
to concur... The Republicans had absolutely nothing to do with the
government shutdown - no matter what Obama and Harry Reid tell us. They shut
down the government. Those two men have personally caused the havoc that
troubles millions.6:57 a.m. Oct. 3, 2013======== Mike -- How can you possible argue that Republicans are absolved from
any of this?Please show us where in the Constitution it says that
the Senate MUST concur with the House.The Senate [by design] is
there as a Gate-Keeper, not a rubber stamp of the House.They rejected the
House bill, and sent it back to them. [per the Constitution]BTW -
the President [Obama in this case] only gets involved by either Signing or
Vetoing whatever the House AND the Senate finally passes and gives him. So
technically, he hasn't done anything - yet. but my guess is - Obama
would have Line Item Veto'ed the bill to kept the Government running.Democrats shutdown the Government....hardy har har.
Mr. Bass,Speaking of inconvenient truths, the fact is that conservative
Republicans did not conceive the ACA. It was a superior bipartisan Wyden
(D-OR)-Bennett (R-UT) proposal that was rejected by the Democrat administration.
Do away with the congressional, big business and union exemptions and implement
the entire ACA now. The middle class alone is shouldering the ACA and the
economy is suffering as a result. Mr. Obama promised to protect the middle
class, yet another empty campaign promise.
Why should we be negotiating with people holding our budget hostage over lost
Policy Basics: Introduction to the Federal Budget ProcessStep One:
The President's Budget RequestStep Two: The Congressional
Budget ResolutionAfter receiving the President's budget request,
Congress generally holds hearings to question Administration officials about
their requests and then develops its own budget resolution. This work is done by
the House and Senate Budget Committees, whose primary function is to draft and
enforce the budget resolution. Once the committees are done, their budget
resolutions go to the House and Senate floors, where they can be amended (by a
majority vote). A House-Senate conference then resolves any differences, and a
conference report is passed by both houses.
Mike R:You and your buddy Mike L need to read anti-ACA Justin
Holbrook's column in today's Christian Science Monitor. The
existential crisis in this country is not the ACA. It is the tea party. By
holding a gun to their opponents' head over a law that was passed by both
houses of Congress and upheld by the Supreme Court and demanding to have their
minority way, they are opening the door to the downfall of constitutional
government, which you and Mike L, of all people, ought to see.If
this lunatic ploy succeeds, then no law is safe. Want a national gun registry?
Just attach it to a totally unrelated funding bill and shut down the government.
By not following the rules our constitutional system is built upon, the tea
party will destroy that system.Also, if Boeher had not followed the
Hastert Rule (which is neither in the Constitution nor anticipated by its
framers, since they didn't anticipate political parties), the Senate bill
would have come up for a vote in the House, and it would have passed, and we
would have had no shutdown.
Randy,The repubs have passed at least 4 bills intended to keep the
government open, the dem senate won’t touch them and BO has promised to
veto them. It is harry and BO who are holding the economy hostage. His own
spokesman even admitted it.White House press secretary Jay Carney
said sharply that Obama "will not offer concessions to Republicans in
exchange for not tanking the economy."“hate-filled”??I guess you’ve never heard of
bill maher, rachel maddow, rosie odonnell, or al sharpton. And none of
BO’s mocking words were ever hate-filled. I guess you choose to ignore
all the radical liberal bloggers who hoped bush’s press secretary would
die of his cancer and how the liberal blogs and websites allowed that hate to go
unabated. But then, the left NEVER expresses any hate – ever!
spring streetBecause there are not lost elections. In fact the
Republicans today have more elected representatives in Washington today than the
Democrat Party does. And owning the peoples house by a substantial majority,
they have a duty to represent half of this country. Especially when polls still
show the majority do not like Obamacare. It would be wrong for the voices for
half the country to not speak up. And since everyone supposedly wants our
government to negotiate and come to agreements, it is wrong of either side to
say no. Right now it is the Democrats doing that.
How anyone could construe this shutdown as being the Democrats' fault is a
mystery. Well, actually, it's not. Once you've inhabited the tea party
echo chamber, it's very difficult to escape the appeal of irrational
notions. Why, do you suppose, so many rational, seasoned Republicans are opposed
to this tea party insanity? Perhaps they see the demise of both their beloved
party and the Republic in the tea leaves.
@Mike RichardsThe senate passed a budget several months ago, and the
Republicans have refused to go to conference committee so we ended up with this
mess. The Senate has 3 times passed a continuing resolution only to be opposed
by the House. Adjusting the House bill is not an origination from the Senate
because they took up the House bill and then just added an amendment (which you
said they can do) with the amendment being restoration of Obamacare funding.
Both chambers have passed a budget months ago, and both chambers have passed a
continuing resolution, anyone suggesting otherwise is lying.
I am baffled by GOP supporters rationalization, twisting and blatant
falsehoods.-The GOP sent a bill to the Senate knowing full well that
it would not pass. They are solely responsible for the shutdown. It's like
offering someone $1 for a $100,000 house. You can say you offered to buy, but
you know the offer will never be accepted. They have become adept at mutually
assured destruction and called the bluff.- Calling Obamacare
unconstitutional: Red herring. The Supreme Court says differently.- Saying
that Obamacare has caused "damage": Premature. Did your tarot cards tell
you?- Exemptions: Red herring. I don't like them and they can
change. Not related to the budget.Saying the Republicans have
nothing to do with the shutdown is absolutely false. If I recall, the ten
commandments contain something about bearing false witness. That is what we have
Name one concession Obama has made to negotiate with Republicans.There's the problem.
@Ernest T. Bass "The only reason they oppose it now is because The President
implemented it."You leave out the fact that Romneycare was put
to the test in Massachusetts, and it failed. The state program had a 48% cost
overrun, and health care costs themselves went up drastically. If we cannot
learn from their experience, we are headed for the same disaster, times 50.
@lost in DCWest Jordan, UTWhite House press secretary Jay
Carney said sharply that Obama "will not offer concessions to Republicans in
exchange for not tanking the economy."9:14 a.m. Oct. 3, 2013======== That simply says that the President would VETO
anything he does agree with.per the Constitution.And, if
Congress still thinks he is wrong, the House and Senate by super-majority can
over ride him anyway.per the Constitution.The Tea-Party
doesn't have the Constitutionally required number of votes to pass what
THEY want, so they are doing this extortionistic tactic [i.e., TRAMPLING the
Constitution] to get their minority and un-Constitutional way.You
know, after all this...As a Veteran who has sworn the oath to protect it
[all enemies, foreign AND domestic], I have nothing but disdain and enmity
toward those who SAY they are "TRUE patriots" and Constitutionalists ---
but are doing everything in their power to destroy and trample it!Follow the Constitution -- Get the necessary votes and you win.It's that simple.
Petition to impeach Lee. He is morally responsible for damages for his illegal
attempt to undercut valid legislation.
dave,Using your $100,000 house analogy...What are you supposed to do
if the SELLER of that house is asking $500,000 for it and refuses to drop the
price even one dollar? As a buyer, can you walk away from that outrageous
demand, or do you just have to pay it even if you know that it may bankrupt your
Senator Lee and his supporters want to stop what he describes as a future train
wreck by blowing up bridges in front of the train moving down the line with
Why was this comment denied by the DN censors? It is simply a statement of
truth.The ONLY way that common sense and moderation will prevail in
our Congressional delegation will be to vote all of them OUT and replace them
with some good people who possess those qualities.
JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UTdave,Using your
$100,000 house analogy...What are you supposed to do if the SELLER of that house
is asking $500,000 for it and refuses to drop the price even one dollar? As a
buyer, can you walk away from that outrageous demand, or do you just have to pay
it even if you know that it may bankrupt your family?9:47 a.m. Oct. 3,
2013======== No, You agree to the terms and
live it because it YOUR house and you must live in it, then -- if you are
not satisfied, you elect a mortgage company and re-negotiate the terms of the
agreement.per the Constitution.
Considering the current course of U.S. politics, a time when the Constitution
hangs by a thread does not seem farfetched. What may come as a surprise to many
Utahns, however, is that the long forecast threat to America is emerging in the
fanatical, ideological driven far right politics of the likes of Senator Mike
Lee. Quite clearly our best hope for stepping back from the brink and
preserving the integrity of our government lies with Senator Harry Reid.
@ Mike Richards, Mike, The "R's" have shut down the government by
trying to deep six settled law. Lee, Stewart, Bishop et al OWN it!
@Lew Scannon"a law that was passed by both houses of Congress and
upheld by the Supreme Court ..they are opening the door to the downfall of
constitutional government, which you and Mike L, of all people, ought to
see."Since the law is a constitutional law, then how is the
Obama administration able to exempt over three hundred groups from the coverage.
How is the president able to exempt business implementation for a year. The
president may sign a law into being, he is charged with enforcing the law, he is
not allowed to circumvent the law. Oh wait, under Obama and the sway of liberal
press constitutional government has been destroyed. The rule of law does not
exist in the Obama administration. Barrack will be taking questions
Saturday on the 9th green of Andrews Air Force Base golf course Saturday. But
no questions allowed from the press. He will tell you the questions you are
asking. The great Carnack is back.
Follow the Constitution --Get the necessary votes and you win.It's that simple.That is right and that is what is happening,
the Constitution is working, that is what riles the progressives and left. The
necessary votes have been cast and conservatives are attempting to stop what
they feel is a bad law. It is how our government is supposed to work. "I have nothing but disdain and enmity toward those who SAY they are
"TRUE patriots" and Constitutionalists" Also loath members of your
church you politically disagree with. The left and progressives are truly
filled with a lot of hate.
LDS Liberal 7:17 a.m,You said it, so now show us where Lee said he
"WANTED" a Government shutdown.I don't think
you'll be able to find it. Because he never say it (it's called a
strawman)I know he said he would fight and even accept a shutdown if
it came to that. But I don't think you'll find anywhere Lee saying
that he "WANTED" a government shutdown, or that he WISHED for a
Government shutdown. You may prove me wrong though.
Simple solution: If you like Obamacare, knock yourself out, sign up! For those
who don't like it, just give us the same waiver Obama has done for his
buddies! Problem solved! FREEDOM!
Oh what a letter. One of the bitter 47 percent in panic crisis mode, because the
big government he worships and depends on has shut down. So angry he can't
think clearly, and come to an understanding that the big compromise his
president and comrade harry reid claim to be all about, is just another lie in
the long list of previous lies most democrats tell. I personally think the
government should shut down at least 1 week every month, and one month every
Shakespeare wrote the plays of Shakespeare. JFK was killed by Lee Harvey
Oswald. Apollo 11 did actually land on the moon and Obama was born in Hawaii.
And the ACA is not some kind of Hitleresque plot to destroy America. And House
Republicans are the ones who shut down the government. Truth is truth, facts
Pretending this is all one parties fault - regardless of side taken - is just
silly gamesmanship and is not to be taken seriously.Both sides are
negotiating from positions they know they can't win... but are using as
leverage to extract as much as they can. But without a dramatic change in the
makeup of congress and the white house, Obamacare is not going away. You can
wish all you want... but so long as you sit there kicking the other side in the
shines, calling them names, and going to your corner to stand on your bully
pulpit and thump your chest about how "principled" you are... there is
no serious attempt to resolve this issue.No one has the guts to do
the right thing here, because all they care about is appeasing the loudest
voices at home... not doing what is best for the country. Not Lee. Not Reid...
none of them has the courage to put themselves at risk.
Thanks UT Republican voters for the shutdown! Rep. Greg Walden
(R-OR) complained that the Tea Party’s influence forced them to do it.Walden, who chairs the National Republican Congressional Committee (the
House GOP’s campaign arm), reportedly told a group of top Republican
donors that the Tea Party’s organizational strength meant that Republicans
had to shutdown the government and obstruct a debt-ceiling increase.“Listen,” Walden told them, “We have to do this because of
the Tea Party. If we don’t, these guys are going to get primaried and they
are going to lose their primary.”
Thank you, Randy, for a letter that accurately reflects what has been happening
"Thanks UT Republican voters for the shutdown!" Your welcome. Someone
suggested closing Washington for a week each month or a month each year. I feel
we should only allow congress to sit down every other year.
Okay people, let's all open the Constitution to Article 1, Section 7 and
read the first sentence together, "All Bills for raising Revenue shall
originate in the House of Representatives; but the Senate may propose or concur
with Amendments as on other Bills."The Senate is not authorized
to originate a budget bill. Harry Reid ignores the Constitution. Obama ignores
the Constitution. Those who have posted comments that challenge the House for
not accepting the Senate's "budget" ignore the Constitution.Harry Reid cannot erase parts of a budget bill. He can add amendments.
He can propose changes, but he cannot originate a budget bill. ObamaCare is not "settled law". That is total nonsense. It is a bill
that was passed. The Court told us that it is a tax, contrary to what Obama
told us. The Court has not ruled on the Constitutionality of that tax.
Congress can change the law. It does that frequently. The House, which has the
responsibility to raise revenue can remove a tax as easily as it can add a tax.
The House has chosen to free us from the ObamaCare tax.
LDS LiberalOf course the Democrats are shutting down the government.
All they need to do is agree to the Republican demands and the government will
be open again. Now of course, the same holds true for the
Republicans. And then that takes us to the chicken or the egg argument about who
started all this stuff. Well if you start with me, I'm going back to FDR.
@Thinkin\' Man;The entire ACA is a compromise with Republicans.
If Obama and the Democrats hadn't been in full compromise-mode to begin
with, we would now have single payer instead of the ACA.
The shutdown is an illegitimate effort by a minority in Congress to sabotage a
legitimate law, the Affordable Care Act.ACA was passed by a majority
in the Senate, it was passed by a majority in the House, it was signed by the
president, it was upheld by the Supreme Court, and the voters spoke by
re-electing the president by a 5-million-vote margin and by giving a majority of
their votes to Democrats in both the Senate and the House. The attempt to
sabotage the ACA is best described as an end run around the voters and around
established political processes.
@Steve C. WarrenYou wrote: "The shutdown is an illegitimate
effort by a minority in Congress to sabotage a legitimate law, the Affordable
Care Act."How so? What is illegitimate about the House, that
part of government that represents the People, voting to decrease our taxes by
defunding ObamaCare? The President does not "represent" the People, he
represents the Union of States to the rest of the world. He cannot legislate. He
can only accept or veto bills passed by Congress. Congress can override his
veto if enough people in Congress disagree with him. The Senate represents the
States. Each State has two Senators, giving each State equal representation in
Congress. The majority of People have rejected ObamaCare and the
House has done the will of the People.The States have told Obama
that they don't want ObamaCare, but the Senate has disregarded the will of
their States. The Senate represents itself, not the States that they should be
concerned about.Obama has dug in. He doesn't care how many
people get hurt. He will defend ObamaCare even if every Woman, Infant and Child
receiving WIC funds goes hungry.Obama and Reid have shut down the
re:MikeRichardsYour assertions and portrayal of the budget process
contradict the House of Representatives Committee on the Budget, Chairman Paul
Ryan's web page. So, when you say Harry Reid and Obama are
ignoring the Constitution in the budget process you will need to include
Republicans--all of Congress as well. Sure, the House can pass
legislation--and the Senate and Executive Branch can decide to not go along.
@J Thompson"The majority of People have rejected ObamaCare and
the House has done the will of the People."You must be speaking
of cleverly worded polls that often use the term "Obamacare" in order to
skew the results. Under the Constitution, it is voters and members of Congress
who speak, not fickle polls, and it is the voters who spoke loud and clear in
2012 and Congress that spoke by a majority in both the House and Senate to pass
the ACA."The States have told Obama that they don't want
ObamaCare, but the Senate has disregarded the will of their States. The Senate
represents itself, not the States that they should be concerned about."Individual states can opine all they want, but the ACA is the law of the
whole country, and the people who make the law of the land have spoken loud and
clear. The extreme right wing, aided by a weak House speaker, have
shut down the government. A majority in both the Senate and House oppose a
shutdown, but House Republican leaders won't allow a floor vote on the
continuing resolution. Nevertheless, they'll probably cave before long.
Mike.... what are you talking about. I don't recall the Senate raising
any spending bills. They simply are not concurring with the House bill - you
know the one passed by a 52-48 vote. what is all this rant about the Senate
and Obama not living by the law.A law was passed by both houses. It
was funded in both Houses. Now the House wants to defund the law - one that
remains in place and in force - regardless if the House funds it or not. This
is like you signing up for cable, but then deciding to not pay for it. You
haven't cancelled your subscription to the service - you just don't
want to pay for it any more.If the house wants to go to another
service, they need to change the contract - not just not pay the bill. If
anyone else were to take this approach, they would be labelled deadbeats. But
somehow, in this case, its okay.Not sure how you rationalize that.
You make a commitment, but then decide you don't want to pay for it,
without changing the commitment. Is this conservative values?BTW -
Reid is being a dork too.
Truthseeker,You are absolutely correct when you wrote, "Sure,
the House can pass legislation--and the Senate and Executive Branch can decide
to not go along.", but I disagree with your claim that all of Congress is
ignoring the Constitution. The Constitution specifically gives the
House the duty to originating all budget bills, regardless of what a web page
may say. The Constitution is the Supreme Law of the Land, not Paul Ryan's
web page, not Obama's or Harry Reid's statements. Too many people
pick and choose their "red line" based on "political
correctness". I personally think that having that kind of "rubber
ruler" gets us into trouble. The Constitution limits
government. It limits the authority of each branch of government. It limits
what the Senate can do in the budgetary process. The Constitution requires that
the House originate all revenue bills. The President and the Senate can sit on
their hands for as long as they want, but they can't blame the House for
shutting down the government. The House funded all government programs except
the ObamaCare TAX. The House removed that tax, which is allowed - according to
For the last time ....The House passed the ACA, The Senate
passed it, The President Signed it, The Supreme Court upheld it.So, All political parties aside [since we are talking
strictly about the Constitutionality of the matter...]How can this
possibly be the fault of the Senate or the President, when it was the
House that passed it into law and now it is the House that is
refusing to fund it?J Thompson, Mike Richards?Any answers??
@Open Minded Mormon,Slavery: The Constitution permitted it. The
President agreed. The Senata agreed. The House agreed. The Court agreed.So, why don't we have slavery now? Prohibition: The
Constitution permitted it. The President agreed. The Senata agreed. The House
agreed. The Court agreed.So, why don't we have prohibition
now?Women prohibited from voting: The Constitution permitted it.
The President agreed. The Senata agreed. The House agreed. The Court
agreed.So, why can women vote now? You're telling
us that no law can be changed. Why? Please tell us why Congress cannot remove
a tax when Congress can plainly see that that tax is beyond the scope of their
J Thompson 6:36 p.m.Because all of those things were overturned by
gathering enough votes in Congress to overturn them and then having their
respective amendments ratified by the states. It wasn't because a minority
shut down the government when they didn't get their way.Want to
get rid of Obamacare? Fine. Draw up a bill, get enough votes in Congress, and
have a President who's willing to sign it. Play by the rules. Republicans
can't do any of those things, so they're throwing a tantrum.
Don't ignore the Constitution when it's not convenient for you.
"Using your $100,000 house analogy...What are you supposed to do if the
SELLER of that house is asking $500,000 for it and refuses to drop the price
even one dollar? As a buyer, can you walk away from that outrageous demand, or
do you just have to pay it even if you know that it may bankrupt your
family?"Joe, you use capitalist in your name? Really? Yes, if the seller of the house won't reduce his price you either walk
away, or buy it at the asking price. You really don't
@happy2beheteSo then why did they have to try to attach defunding
the ACA to must pass legislation? Oh that's right because they failed to
win a majority in the senate three times and the presidency twice since the ACA
became a political issue. spin it how you want but the trutth is they only
cotrol one house.
There are two myths at play:1) the Republicans are the party of big
business, 2)the Democrats are the party of the poor.Big
business and banks etc, want the debt limit to be raised so that business as
usual will continue. So they are on Obama's side. In that case, Obama is
looking out for big business. Myth No. 1 is gone.So the
administration is cutting WIC rather than instituting means testing for social
security benefits to well to -do seniors? Myth No. 2 has fallen.The
polarity of American politics is flip-flopping.
The "radical Republicans" are the only ones talking any sense at the
moment. They are the only ones who are representing the majority in the nation
who do not want "Obamacare". That majority looks likely to increase
greatly as the full impact and cost to individuals becomes more widely known and
experienced.While some federal workers must be worried over the
potential for a prolonged "seige", I imagine it quite likely that, if it
goes on more than a few days they will soon be back at work, and optimistic of
being paid for the down time. Any information on this? I hope there are many
on monthly salaries, paid at the end of September and good until the end of
October.As has been stated more than once, though, the
administration and its supporters could be more agreeable to the House
proposals, and take the opportunity to discuss needed changes to
"Obamacare" to iron out the difficulties and hardships it has already
caused. It is an unpopular bill and the Democrats must realize
their very name bespeaks sympathy with the people. Why not show sympathy and
respect for the national will?
Gildas, if there are problems with the bill then you work it out procedurally.
What the republicans are doing is not how you negotiate. If you want to change
parts of the bill, you draft another bill, and you try to find enough support,
enough people that agree with your bill to get it passed. The republicans have
not been able to do that, so they resort to this very ill advised manuver. We don't legislate by polls, but if you look at them the vast
majority do not want the government shutdown. The republicans are explicitly
doing something the people do not want. Also a majority (and not that much of a
majority) of the people polled do not want something called "obamacare"
(the spinmeisters on the right have done a heck of a job), but the numbers
change when polled about the affordable care act, and even more so, gaining
strong support, when polled about the items that make up the ACA. It's highly misleading to claim that the American people want what the
republicans are doing. Also, polls show, the Republicans are getting
the blame on the shutdown.
@ MarkIn January 51% said they favored all or most of the provisions
in the new law. Now that figure is down to 39%. Support has dropped
in virtually all demographic categories, but it has fallen the farthest among
two core Democratic groups – women and Americans who make less than
$50,000. The poll was conducted last week by ORC International.
Some of you right wing commenters really have swallowed the cool-Aid. The
government has been shout down because, from before they were in office, many
Tea Party candidates promised their radical constituents that they would find a
way to do that. The ACA was the excuse they needed because they understood that
Obama and the Democrats would never agree to defund, or agree to premature
change at the point of an elephant gun. So, with glee, the Republican radicals
forced the Speaker to hold to the Haster rule and then started a spin campaign
to make the Democrats seem complicit. It won't wash, except with right
wing nutcases like some I read in these comments. I didn't know that
elephants drank tea, but it seems they have sucked it up to the point of near
drowning in the stuff.
Hey, Gildas, I couldn't find the ORC poll you were talking about, but i
found this question from an ORC poll conducted Sept 27-29 of this year. When
asked if they oppose Obamacare because its too liberal, or not liberal enough
this was the result: Favor 38%Oppose, too liberal 39%Oppose,
not liberal enough 11%No opinion 13%+/- 3.5So if you add
those that favor the bill, and those who don't because its not liberal
enough you get 49% as opposed to 39% that that think its too liberal. Add in
those that have no opinion and you get 62%.Could it be the fringe
conservatives in the House don't speak for most Americans after all? Also in the same poll 60% thought approving a budget was the most
important thing to do, 34% thought stopping major provisions of the ACA was. And it had this: 69% thought Republicans were acting like spoiled
children. (44% of Republican respondents thought this as well.) Only 25% thought
they were acting like responsible adults. Really, it had that question.This isn't going to turn out well for Republicans.
How sad that Randy Hopkins listens to and actually believe the hate filled words
of the radical Obama clone talk show hosts.But in the new media
world, the left wing practice of belligerently shaming any dissent into silence
just doesn't work any more. Indeed Obama bully efforts to force a shutdown
to divert attention from his incompetence and the fact that ACA is broken and
unpopular and partisan. His efforts to make a shutdown more painful merely make
him look more vicious and even less competent (as if that were even possible)Obama Reid own this completely
As an Atlanta Braves fan, I'm all for the Gov't Shutdown. The last
shutdown was in '95 when the Braves won the World Series.