Would the world be more moral without God and religion?The 2
aren't mutually inclusive.
What if we rephrased the question, "would the world be more moral without
Allah and Islam?"Being devoted to a higher power doesn't
ensure you have an objective view of morality.
Yes. We're born with a sense of morality, and religion has enabled us like
no other idea to behave contrary to those morals. Almost all the strife in the
world today has a religious basis.
We're born with a sense of morality? Maybe. But do we retain it? Read
Lord of the Flies.
@twin lights You do realize that like Murphy Brown, the Lord of the Flies
is a work of fiction?
Religion grows bigger and worse with the international corporate church
business. God has become a trade mark to stage political and economic power
over the innocent and dumb. If one can't find god in his/her own heart
they will not find it in a corporate church.
Rather than having an abstract discussion about this – which would be
about as productive as discussing how many angels can dance on the head of a pin
– why not look at countries where the citizens have organically shed
religious belief and compare them to the most religious countries on the
planet.Looking at the two at either end of the spectrum, if you had
to pick which one you wanted your kids to be born (and live their lives) in,
would it be Sweden or Pakistan?
The premise that morality is the result of religion and god is a faulty premise.
Morality is due to our need to interact with one another in a manner such that
we all benefit as a whole.
Let see...Lamanites and Nephites fight over religion, Muslims,
Jews, and Christians fight, Hindi and Muslims fighting, Buddhists
and Christians fighting, Irish Catholics and Protestants fighting, Baptists and Mormons fighting, Yes, I think the world would
be better God and LESS religion.[The older I get, the more profound
John Lennon becomes...]
The unrighteous dominion style of religion is the second beast in the book of
Revelation. As we can readily distinguish between the ethical and unethical uses
of religion, that means ethics are more fundamental than religion and seem to be
inborn in most people.
I wrote this once already, but I guess Des News didn't get the memo, so
here goes again.LDS LiberalFrom what you wrote it seems
as if the LDS part is or has faded away. Sorry about that.However,
Baptists and Mormons fighting? Please tell us where that is happening as
I've seen no stories about Mormons or Baptists having any problems.
Thanks. As for John Lennon, his sentiment was more athiestic than anything.Tyler DI would not want to live in Pakistan, but would have
no problem living in any country that had as it's foundation Christian
roots, even if it was becoming more secular.
@Tyler D;Would you be happy living in a Christian country that
burned heretics? You might just be considered a heretic there yourself.That old saying comes to mind: Be careful what you wish for.
@Tyler D; Sorry, my comment should have been directed at mgScott.
Please accept my apologies.
Just reading the headline: Absolutely YES!
@Ranch – “Sorry, my comment should have been directed at mgScott.
Please accept my apologies.”No apology necessary…
figured as much and got a good chuckle out of it anyway.And no doubt
I would be charcoal living in Europe during the Dark Ages. I continue to be
amazed when religious people assert that values like individual liberty, free
speech, and free thought somehow sprang from their roots & sacred books.Nothing could be further from the truth and we see this even in the
modern world - whenever religion is combined with state power all its tendencies
are towards conformity, compliance and obedience to (religious) authority
– THE key lesson (obey!) of their sacred books, by the way. That most religious believers today (in non-Muslim countries) have
internalized the values of the Enlightenment (which are based on Athens &
Rome) and our Founders is great, but those values are not found in the source
books of religion (though few believers seem willing to admit this).Just a few thoughts sparked by your comment… sorry for preaching.
Tyler D and RanchWelcome to the 21st century. I assumed (my fault
no doubt) that we all were talking about the world today. Today there is no
Christian nation that I know of where I would fear being a who I am. However, I
can't think of a Muslim nation, particularly in the Middle-East where I
would not fear being Christian. Hope that clears things up. As I said, welcome
to the real world.
You should not need the fear of God or Religion to do the right thing..... you
should have the moral backbone to do what is right regardless.But
no, the world would not be better without either God or Religion.The
world would be better of if people didn't use the two as justification to
advance their own personal agendas though.... and that happens all the time.
If your religion is to smile love and give your word your religion is to give
the gifts you can keep
Neither religion nor atheism are inherently good or bad - it is what you do with
them that matters.As far as historic records show, there has never
been a truly atheistic society - there has always been some form of supreme
being or supreme leader (Mao and Stalin, etc., were supreme leaders - taking the
place of gods in their societies.)However, as time has progressed
things that were considered moral under one religion have become immoral and the
religion has either changed with the times or been replaced by newer
religions.As an example, the more society has advanced from basic
survival needs, the less acceptable it has become to raid the neighboring
villages and take slaves and concubines. The more food security we have the
less acceptable it is to kill over food.The one drawback with basing
morals in religion is what happens when there are multiple religions, often with
competing morals? For that, secular (in the India understanding of the word)
morals may offer common ground and acceptance of different viewpoints without
I believe morality exists whether or not one believes in God. But this is a
belief in itself.
m.g. scott said: Welcome to the 21st century. I assumed (my fault no doubt) that
we all were talking about the world today. Today there is no Christian nation
that I know of where I would fear being a who I am. My guess would
be you aren't a muslim in America than, right.
After reading the comments to this post, I am convinced that not one person
actually read Mr. Prager's complete article, since none of this discussion
has a nexus to the main points of his article.
@marxist: I agree with you whole heartedly. The Light of Christ illuminates
the minds of everyone that has lived or will ever live. It is perceived as a
conscience. If we heed it, we will live according to the highest mores of our
society, whether that society believes in human sacrifice or that all men are
Happy Valley Heretic: It would appear that Muslims living in this country find
it an appealing place, based upon immigration patterns and the growth of the
Muslim population. According to the President of the United States, these
United States are not a "Christian" country.
@gmlewis – “The Light of Christ illuminates the minds of everyone
that has lived or will ever live. It is perceived as a conscience. If we heed
it, we will live according to the highest mores of our society…”And if we don’t get too hang up on names and any one religion
having a monopoly on access to it, most people would probably agree with you.
In other words, if Light of Christ is synonymous with The Light, The
Void, Brahman, The Source, The Ground (of our being), The Way, The Tao, our
Buddha Nature, and a whole host of other names trying to articulate the Reality
at our core and behind all appearance and the unseen order of the universe, then
all but the most base materialists would agree with you.
One of my favorite quotes (I don't recall who initially said it)...
"Morality is doing what is right regardless of what you are told. Religion
is doing what you are told regardless of what is right."God
exists but its a crying shame that Organized Religion (a man made invention like
the light bulb) does.
From the book The Bonobo and the Atheist by Frans De Waal; **Whatever the role of religious moral imperatives, he sees it as a
“Johnny-come-lately” role that emerged only as an addition to our
natural instincts for cooperation and empathy.**