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Letter: Our Congress needs to learn how to compromise

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  • ECR Burke, VA
    Sept. 24, 2013 6:53 a.m.

    Thanks for your letter Michael. Your suggestion certainly needs to be heeded by those currently serving in Congress.

    Of course the hot topic of the day is the attempt to defund the ACA and potentially shut down the government in doing so. Yesterday, E.J. Dionne wrote in the Washington Post about the unlikely alliance between the president and many Republican governors who support the Medicaid expansion under Obamacare including John Kasich of Ohio, Rick Snyder of Michigan, Tom Corbett of Pennsylvania, Chris Christie of New Jersey, Jan Brewer of Arizona and Susana Martinez of New Mexico.

    Kasich is a conservative fighting the tea party and his own Republican legislature because he thinks the less privileged people of Ohio deserve health coverage. As he suggested, at heaven’s door, “St. Peter is probably not going to ask you much about what you did about keeping government small. But he is going to ask you what you did for the poor.”

    The single biggest difference between the GOP in Congress and the GOP in the states is that the Republican governors have to govern while the GOP in Congress is still in an obstructionist mode.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    All-or-Nothing-ism is called extremism.

    Congress - primarily in the form of the Tea-Party, are leading the charge of extremism.

    Their My-way-or-the-Highway threats of No Obamacare or we Shutdown the entire country is nothing more than the same bully tactic pukes holding a gun at heads of hostages to get their way.

    What they can't get with Constitutionally required votes,
    They by-pass and use "other" tactics to get their way!

    Talk about trampling the Constitution!

  • Ranch Here, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:10 a.m.

    I'd like to have their salaries for just working 79 days of the year.

    If you're wondering why congress can't compromise, take a look closer to home. Locals can't even compromise, why would they start at the national level?

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    Republicans have painted the Democratic Party as evil personified.

    Why would you want to compromise with evil personified?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:36 a.m.

    Congress must obey the rules set for them by the people. They have no authority to do anything outside of those rules. Compromise, within the rules, is essential. Compromise on bills outside those rules must be rejected.

    ObamaCare lies outside those rules. An honest Congressman cannot compromise on ObamaCare. Even if the Court decreed that ObamaCare is a tax, the Congressman can clearly see that in his book of rules (Contitution), that ObamaCare is not listed. If he is honest and upright, he must remove the ObamaCare tax. The House has done that. Harry Reid will not even allow the Senate to vote on that bill. The Democrates in the Senate think that they are above the Supreme Law of the Land. Even though ObamaCare was passed without Republican support, the Democrats demand that the Republicans compromise their integrity now that the bill is law. No honest person would compromise away his integrity.

    There are many issues in Congress that fall within the authority of Congress. On those issues, both sides can compromise.

    People without integrity would ask their members of Congress to compromise on issues that are outside the "duties" of Congress.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    "Furthermore, the Church views with concern the politics of fear and rhetorical extremism that render civil discussion impossible." ~ LDS Worldwide Newsroom.

    ======

    Threatening to shutdown the entire Government if you don't get your minority way --
    I'd say that falls into the "politics of fear and rhetorical extremism", wouldn't you agree...Mike?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 24, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    Mike,

    Same tune different day.

    You typically side step direct questions because, I assume, that you find them uncomfortable and do not support your stance.

    Direct question. Can you name a few congressmen who obey the "authority of Congress"
    I assume that you mean the Constitution.

    Did Reagan? Did Bush? Does Canter, Boehner, McConnell?

    Heck, name one who has not voted for things you find "outside their authority"

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    The problem is, some in DC feel like they have been divinely appointed to NOT compromise.

    Just look at Mike Lee.

    Are voters going to make these folks pay? Or support them with their unconstitutional grabs for power?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 24, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    Liberal,

    Who is making threats to shutdown the government, the Republicans or the Democrats? The Republicans have FUNDED all parts of government except ObamaCare. Obama has postponed the implementation of ObamaCare. Obama doesn't want ObamaCare to take effect until after the 2014 election. The Republicans have agreed with him. They will not fund ObamaCare. Obama should thank them.

    The DEMOCRATS are threatening to shut down the government. Read the Deseret News. Read the statements made by DEMOCRATS about shutting down the government. Not one Republican has threatened to shut down the government.

    How does that make you feel, when the "party of compassion" threatens the aged and the destitute that they will shut down all welfare if they don't get their way? The DEMOCRATS are trying to blackmail the Republicans.

    Finally, we can see that the DEMOCRATS would throw everyone under the bus if they don't get their way.

    The shutdown has nothing to do with the Republicans. All programs except ObamaCare have been funded.

    Why are you telling us that the Republicans are at fault? Which party is refusing to compromise? The Democrats got EVERYTHING that they wanted except ObamaCare. Why can't the Democrats compromise?

  • Nonconlib Happy Valley, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    The unwillingness to compromise falls primarily on the right side of the aisle. The Democrats have been willing to compromise on all sorts of issues: gun control, budgetary matters ($10 of spending cuts for $1 of tax increases), and, most significantly, Obamacare. The ACA was, from the outset, basically a conservative creation that can trace its genealogy to Romneycare and the Heritage Foundation's famous individual mandate. If liberals had wanted to push for their own preference, we might have a single-payer system today. But they hoped the Republicans would at least recognize their own ideas and meet the Democrats somewhere in the middle. Alas, the GOP is interested only in opposing Obama, even when he proposes essentially conservative ideas. This is extremism and partisanship of the most unsavory sort.

    How 'bout we impeach Mike Lee? Has there ever been a more dysfunctional Senator?

  • Nonconlib Happy Valley, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Mike,

    You'll find no mention in the Constitution of Obamacare. Or national parks, the EPA, food stamps, subsidies for farmers, and several thousand other government programs that have nevertheless been declared constitutional. What does that tell you? Does this mean the Supreme Court is not doing its job? No, it means that over the years, the Court has exercised its constitutional powers to determine what is law and what is not in America. Sometimes each of us will disagree with the Court. Sometimes we will agree. But our personal definition of what is constitutional is irrelevant. The Court has the final say (unless we follow constitutional procedure and amend the document, which is intentionally difficult, sometimes impossible).

    Note to Des News comment moderators. I would invite you to follow your own rules and deny Mike Richards's comments whenever he "shouts" by repeatedly using all caps. Your inconsistency is showing again.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:05 a.m.

    "Most Americans these days are simply ignoring Republicans. And they should.". "The self-promotional babble of a few has become the mainstream of Republican political thought. It has marginalized the influence of the party to an appalling degree."

    R-Judd Gregg, who left the Senate in 2011, became the latest Republican to sound off on the strategy by Sens. Ted Cruz (R-TX) and Mike Lee (R-UT), as well as many tea party lawmakers in the House, to defund the new health care law, an effort that raises the risk of a government shutdown.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    If Mike truly cared about the Constitution he would condemn the treasonous actions being done by Senators Cruz and Lee. The Constitution provides for a process to pass new legislation and repeal unwanted legislation. Rather than use these legal and Constitutional means, they are putting a gun to our country's head. Completely illegal, unconstitutional, and treasonous.

    One cannot serve to masters. One cannot adore and worship the Constitution while defending traitors like Mike Lee who are doing nothing but trampling all over the Constitution.

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    per Mike Richards earlier this a.m.

    In the past, you went off on some tangent about SCOTUS upholding The Affordable care tax and you return to the usual populist rhetoric?

    Congress does listen to its masters... the special interest groups.

    Overturn Citizens United & Kelo v New London then maybe (& I doubt it); Politicians will ascribe to the Will of the people ideal you like to rant about.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:30 a.m.

    @ECR:
    "Of course the hot topic of the day is the attempt to defund the ACA and potentially shut down the government in doing so."

    Let's make sure we understand who is trying to shut down the government. The US House, controlled by the Republican majority, has the constitutional responsibility and authority to create and approve the national budget. House members did their job funding the entire government except Obamacare which they believe is unconstitutional. If the government is shut down it is the responsibility of the Senate for failing to approve the House bill and the president who refuses to sign the bill into law.

    "Kasich is a conservative fighting the tea party and his own Republican legislature because he thinks the less privileged people of Ohio deserve health coverage."

    Then, why doesn't Kasich get busy and create a state healthcare program for citizens of Ohio? The federal government has no authority to create a national healthcare program nor force citizens to by health insurance. The authority to do so is 'reserved to the states and to the people' (10th Amendment).

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    First there is some misconceptions here: The GOP pass the budget except for the huge tax increase calle Obama Care. It is the Democrats and a few Rhino who will shut the government down, if they do not sign the bill;

    Parts of the law are unconstitutional, those parts which force people to go against their conscience. Others are a Tax and the power to tax is the power to destroy. This may not go against the Constitution as these so called judges state; but does goes against the fundamental principles of the Bill of Right which gave legal authority for the 13 states to break from Britain.

    The news media will not report but as with any dictatorship, report their ideology.

    There are much better solution to health care than a government run system; My boss has try care, but has to reinstate her mother ever three years, It been four month and the government , the federal employee at DFAS work the system to keep recycling her renewal application You will have faceless Federal employees or contractors doing the same for you.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    wrz - Your about a day late with that argument. Mike Richards made the same argument, almost word for word, yesterday. Makes me wonder if you guys get a newsletter with the acceptable mantra for conservatives.

    But I digress. You can spin the language however you want but you know, as well as I, that what Republicans are doing is threatening to shut down the government (we can't have a government without funding and they know that de-funding Obamacare will cause the Senate and the Whitehouse to fight back, essentially leaving the government without a funding mechanism.) It is plain and simple and no amount of twisting the contaxt will change it. Republicans are willing to shut down the government if they can't get their way - which is to usurp the legislative process established in the Constitution and de-fund a program legitimately passed by the Congress (it doesn't matter weather there's a 'R' or a 'D' after your name, all the votes count) and now has been validated by the conservative Supreme Court. There's no other way to look at other than a threat by the childish Republicans in Congress.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    Liberal,

    Who is making threats to shutdown the government, the Republicans or the Democrats?
    Read the Deseret News.
    Not one Republican has threatened to shut down the government.

    ===

    Silly beyond all reason Richards --

    Search anything about Senator Mike Lee - a Republican - and a Government Shutdown.
    Face it Mike, He's the laughing stalk of the entire Nation right now.

    KSL reports that nearly half (46%) of REPUBLICANS think Mike Lee is a loose cannon and needs to pipe down the rhetoric.

    The GOP is trying to muzzle him [not the Democrats].
    The Democrats want to give him an open mike to chide him on.
    He's the best thing going for them right now.

    But - of course - you can't see any of it.
    Your politically biased rose colored glasses only see reality one way.
    And it's wrong.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    If the tea party does get control, they will dictate even more than the attempt as a minority. The tea party's position is the cause of civil wars or dictators.

  • GZE SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    wrz, Except the Supreme Court has ruled that the Affordable Health Care Act is, indeed, constitutional. That is not a decision for the House to make.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 9:58 a.m.

    "House members did their job funding the entire government except Obamacare which they believe is unconstitutional."

    Then why even have a Supreme Court? Why even have a Judicial Branch of government? Methinks you don't understand the role that the LEGISLATIVE branch has in our government.

    If they feel like funding everything but Obamacare, then repeal it. But using the budget talks to do it is completely unconstitutional and immoral.

    Oh, and if the GOP controlled house ONLY cared about the budget, then why in their budget did they provide funding and a mandate to FORCE the Keystone Pipeline down our throats?

    I thought the GOP didn't like to force stuff that the people don't want?

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    @LDS Liberal:
    "Threatening to shutdown the entire Government if you don't get your minority way..."

    I agree with your assertion. So, let's see who's in the minority...?

    Let's take a look... Counting the Republicans in the Congress (House and Senate) there are 280. Counting the Democrats in the Congress (House and Senate) there are 250. Which means the Republicans outnumber the Democrats in the US Congress by 30 members. So actually, the Democrats are in the minority. (gasp)

    @The Real Maverick:
    "The problem is, some in DC feel like they have been divinely appointed to NOT compromise. Just look at Mike Lee."

    That divine appointment would seem to be the Democrats... who refused to compromise and accept any, ANY amendments to Obamacare when it was being developed and debated in the House and Senate committees.

    @Nonconlib:
    "...it means that over the years, the Court has exercised its constitutional powers to determine what is law and what is not in America."

    True, but the Court does not have the Authority to create law. There is a legal process to add needed features to the Constitution, called... 'Amendments.' (more gasping)

  • casual observer Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    Terms such as "dead on arrival," "non-starter," "deal killer" are too often used to begin political conversations. They justify themselves as standing firm on principle and other terms which mean they will not negotiate. People seldom get everything they want, but the political fringes on the left and right punish legislators who compromise. We have become a country that is beholden to political extremists much as Israel is kept hostage by the ultra-othodox. Few moderate Democrats or Republicans remain in congress. Compromise must be bilateral but it has come to mean that the other person should give in.

  • CylonesRus sunamn, IN
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    LDS Liberal

    Farmington, UT

    All-or-Nothing-ism is called extremism.

    Yes, that what The unaffordable Obama Care is! All Demos behind closed doors and passed without bipartisan input so we can find out what is in it after it was passed, it a Pandora Box. Government total controlled aid at a one payer system. And of course the trusted IRS is to enforce it, lovely;

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    Something they probably learned in Kindergarten. But something they all seem to quickly UN-Learn when they get to Washington.

    I wish our representatives could act like adults. ALL of them, on BOTH sides.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    IMO the ability to compromise is the sign of a real "Statesman". We need more Statesmen in Washington, and less Demagoguery.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    @ECR:
    "wrz ... Mike Richards made the same argument, almost word for word, yesterday. Makes me wonder if you guys get a newsletter with the acceptable mantra for conservatives."

    We (Mike and me) are reading the same document... it's commonly referenced, 'US Constitution.'

    "But I digress."

    You err as well.

    "You can spin the language however you want but you know, as well as I, that what Republicans are doing is threatening to shut down the government..."

    The Republicans in the House passed a document that fully funds the government, except Obamacare. Obama hisself exempted many from implementation and deferred many more. Repubs are simply following his very thoughtful lead.

    @GZE:
    "wrz, Except the Supreme Court has ruled that the Affordable Health Care Act is, indeed, constitutional."

    Not so. The court decided that the government can collect a tax on folks who don't buy health insurance. Nothing more.

    "That is not a decision for the House to make."

    The House has authority to fund the government, which it just did.

    Speaking of illegal conduct... Obama did an illegal act by exempting many from Obamacare. Keep that in mind.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    "Who is making threats to shutdown the government, the Republicans or the Democrats? "

    The Republicans. They want to shutdown the gov't unless Democrats give up the Obamacare funding. That's hostage taking. The consider a shutdown something of value (akin to killing a hostage) in order to extract some benefit. Since they see value in a shutdown, they are the ones threatening it. The Senate will pass a budget with Obamacare funding later this week. You say that since Democrats don't want to compromise (what kind of compromise is "we give up nothing, you give up something you spent a year working on?") they're threatening to shut down the gov't if they don't get their way. Okay... but under that same logic House Republicans will oppose the Senate bill, threatening to shut down the gov't if they don't get their way.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:17 a.m.

    The American Taliban is hard at work. And Cruz and Lee are leading the suicide mission.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:18 a.m.

    One poster told us that 46% of Republicans think that Mike Lee is a "loose canon". That poster must have forgotten that 46% is less that 50%. 54% agree with Mike Lee. Twisting the facts and distorting them to try to show that the Republicans are trying to shut down the government shows just how desperate some people are.

    That poster also used old posts to try to tell us that Mike Lee wanted to shut down the government. He forgot to mention that Obama and the Democrats refused to accept the "continuing resolution" to fund government. The Democrats had drawn another "red line in the sand" daring the Republicans to defy them. The Republicans decided to settle the matter by funding all parts of the Government except ObamaCare.

    Now the Democrats are in a tizzy because they can't blame the Republicans for shutting down the government.

    The Democrats refuse to compromise. They got everything that they wanted except one item. If they can't compromise on that one item, then they have no right to blame the Republicans for "shutting down the government". The Democrats are 100% responsible if the government is shut down.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    Here's an idea. Reduce Congressional pay to equal the average pay of the American worker and pay them hourly for their time in session.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    @ WRZ

    Whether you like it or not, the ACA is as Constitutional as the right to bear arms and women's suffrage. The Supreme Court fulfilled its role and ruled on this issue. Had they ruled that it was unconstitutional would you be so quick to dismiss their ruling? Doubt it.

    @ ECR

    Mike Richards and WRZ are the same person. They just create many... Many different profiles.

    "Parts of the law are unconstitutional, those parts which force people to go against their conscience. Others are a Tax and the power to tax is the power to destroy."

    Huh? So if bearing arms or allowing blacks to vote is against my conscience that means that it is unconstitutional and should shut down the government?

    @ the rest of the repubs

    It's difficult to take you folks seriously. Your arguments are childish and your understanding of the Constitution is extremely limited. Fruits of the cuts in civics/history our state legislature has made over the years.

    Those who claim that Obama hasn't compromised obviously are ignoring what type of health care reform he campaigned on, what he has done with taxes, and what he has done with the economy.

  • FreedomFighter41 Provo, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    @ Mike Richards

    "Who is making threats to shutdown the government, the Republicans or the Democrats?"

    Is Mike Lee a Democrat now? Wow, news to most of us!

    How can anyone take you folks seriously with posts like these? Of course the Tea Partying Republicans are the ones threatening to shut down the government!

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    Whether it is ignorance or whether it is a determined effort to blame the Republicans for a possible shutdown of the government the fact is that the House passed a budget that will fully fund the government - except for ObamaCare. That bill was passed by Republicans and Democrats. Harry Reid, a Democrat, has said that he will not allow the Senate to vote on that bill. The Democrats in the Senate say that they will not accept that bill.

    So, the Republicans have passed a budget to fund the Government. The Democrats, including Obama, refuse to compromise on one item. Those Democrats will shut down the government. The Republicans have nothing to do with the shutdown. They have funded the government.

    Those who continue to lie about the possible shutdown are ignoring the facts. They would lie to us rather than accept the truth - the Democrats have dug in. The Democrats would rather destroy the lives of those who depend on the government instead of voting on the budget bill.

  • 2 bits Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    FreedomFighter41,
    This isn't just about the ACA bill.

    And who's threatening to not fund the government? Republicans passed a bill to fund the government for the coming year. All Democrats in the Senate have to do is pass it and the government will be funded!

    But Democrats won't pass the bill funding the government... because ACA was left out.

    So... technically WHO's threatening to not fund the government? Technically it's the Democrats who won't pass the House bill funding the government.

    Democrats haven't sent a bill funding the government yet. And you blame Republicans for that?

    I think eventually government will get funded, and ACA will get funded. I think Republicans are throwing a temper tantrum for being bullied by Democrats when ACA was passed in a rush to gitter-done before they lost their brief unblockable super-majority.

    Now that Republicans can block it... they are trying to get even. Not very statesman like, but it happens. When you cram your agenda down the opposition's throat and thumb your nose at them when you have a brief super-majority... expect some push back when balance is restored.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    I guess Republicans not funding Obamacare is not much different than them
    starting not just 1, but 2 foreign wars without funding either of them,
    and giving away tax breaks and tax refunds.

    My limited knowledge of accounting says:
    To Tax and spend is better than, to not tax and spending regardless.

    And then there is the audacity to whine about the deficit.
    Childish.

  • Redshirt1701 Deep Space 9, Ut
    Sept. 24, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" are you calling Obama an extremist? So far the Republicans offered to fund all of the government except Obamacare. Obama said that he would not sign any bill that didn't include Obamacare. I guess by your standards Obama is and extremist.

    Harry Reid won't even vote on the spending bill unless it funds everything he wants it to. Again, all or nothing coming out of the Democrat/liberals.

    To "atl134" what lies have you been listening too. Everybody involved in the defunding of Obamacare efforts have been very clear that they want 2 spending bills to be voted on. One bill for Obamacare, and one bill for the rest of the government. The only people that want to shut down the government are your ilk that want "all or nothing" when it comes to spending.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 24, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    Back in the old days,
    back when conservatives upheld, sustained and obeyed the Constitution of the United States...

    As well meaning, but futile and silly as it was --
    When they wanted to out-law liquor,
    They got the votes necessary,
    passed a law,
    and Amended the Constitution.

    When the Liberals wanted to change it back --
    They got the votes necessary,
    passed the law,
    and changed it back.

    Today's Conservatives have not reverence for the Constitution,
    are indeed trashing it, trampling it, and violating the very rule of law.

    My oath is to defend the Constitution of the United States,
    against ALL enemies foreign and Domestic...
    So help me God!

    If you don't like Obamacare --
    Fine, I support you having idiotic opinions.

    But follow the Constitution!

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 24, 2013 12:58 p.m.

    @J Thompson
    SPRINGVILLE, UT

    One poster told us that 46% of Republicans think that Mike Lee is a "loose canon". That poster must have forgotten that 46% is less that 50%. 54% agree with Mike Lee. Twisting the facts and distorting them to try to show that the Republicans are trying to shut down the government shows just how desperate some people are.

    ======

    One poster told,
    That KSL poll said 46% of REPUBLICANS in Utah aid Mike Lee was a loose cannon.

    Another poster must have forgotten that not everyone in Utah is a Republican.
    So, Mike Lee has less than 25% support.

    Twisting the facts and distorting them to try to show that Republicans are right to shut down the government and trample the Constitution shows just how desperate some people are.

    YES, you are still in a super minority J, even in Utah.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:06 p.m.

    LDS (contradiction in terms) Liberal

    All sides, the Republicans the Democrats and Obama have staked out positions of shut down. Obama says he will not sign if it isn't what he wants. The Democrats in the Senate won't pass a bill not funding Obamacare, and the Republicans in the House don't want a bill that does fund it. In other words, all parties are equally part of this shutdown threat. How hard is that for anyone to understand?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:11 p.m.

    Both the House and the Senate has passed it.
    The President has signed it.
    The Supreme Court has ruled and upheld it.

    You can haggle and argue, stomp your feet, jump up and down 'til the cows come home about whether you like it or not [Conservatives] but all 3 branches of our Government have had their say so ---

    The question now is:

    WHO'S trampling the United States Constitution?!

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Governing a nation of 300+ million requires compromise.

    What exactly is the reasonable compromise position between "repeal Obamacare" and "let it take effect and then we'll fix the parts that aren't working"?

    The Affordable Care Act was the result of a two years of public debate and discussion, beginning with the 2008 presidential campaign. Congress debated, changed, updated and revised the act throughout almost all of 2009 before it passed in 2010. It faced an almost immediate legal challenge and the Supreme Court held the act was constitutional. It's been subject to years of disinformation by opponents which has confused and complicated public discussion. The law itself is unpopular but many of its core provisions are hugely popular.

    The folks on the right who want to repeal it don't have an alternative policy for improving health care. Folks on the left have a bevy of options, from the Clinton proposal of the 1990s that would make our health care system like Germany's to single payer like Canada to government run like Great Britain all of which produce better outcomes for less money than we currently spend. What is the compromise between "nothing" and something?

  • m.g. scott clearfield, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    Just remember everyone. The reason our Congress (and President) are so very divided is because this country is so very divided. They are reflecting the deep divisions we the people are sharing. Just read these posts and one can see that truth. I'm glad for divided government. I think one party rule is very dangerous for a country. And we had that those few months right after Obama was elected, the Democrats had 100% control of government. Thankfully they squandered a lot of it and the 2010 election came along. And the thing they did do with that majority was push through Obamacare. Now what are all arguing about the most? Obamacare.

  • Fitz Murray, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    Mr. Nielsen uses lines from a musical called "1776". It is an entertaining movie, with lots of license of what was and was not said. That there were issues were compromise was very difficult, however, is accurate. In May 1787, a convention was held, resulting in September of that same year what we now call our Constitution. There were serious issues in that convention that were extremely difficult to compromise. Some of the issues were so serious, that the delegated from Delaware left the convention. Other delegates would walk out for a time. It was a contentious convention at times. But in the end, our Constitution was accepted by the states.

    Today is no different than it has been since 1776. Sometimes, hot issues take time to find common ground. But, eventually, common ground is found.

    ACA will eventually find the common ground. Right now, it is contentious, and rightfully so. It was passed by a Democratic Congress, prepared behind closed doors, totally excluding the Republican points. SCOTUS declared it unconstitutional under the Commerce Clause, but allowed the tax to remain. And I sit here and wonder how the government can tax something that has been declared unconstitutional.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    I just got back from a "health screening" that is required every year for my health insurance. Because I had to wait about 1/2 hour, I had the chance to talk to fifteen people who were in the waiting area. Every one of them, every one, wanted ObamaCare off the books. Everyone of them, every one, said that their policy costs have gone up dramatically since ObamaCare was passed. In that group were caucasians, blacks, hispanics and orientals. Some were professionals. Some were laborers. All of them were against ObamaCare. Two of them said that their spouse had to get a part time job when hours were cut from full time to part time because of ObamaCare.

    I asked the doctor what he thought of ObamaCare. He said that he will close his doors within two years because he will not let the government dictate to him how to treat his patients.

    If you want to know what people think, go to a doctor's waiting room and ask the people who need to see doctors.

    Of course, the Democrats will never compromise on ObamaCare. That money means too much to them.

  • wrz Phoenix, AZ
    Sept. 24, 2013 2:31 p.m.

    @GZE:
    "wrz, Except the Supreme Court has ruled that the Affordable Health Care Act is, indeed, constitutional. That is not a decision for the House to make."

    Ok. Let's say Obamacare is constitutional. It's also constitutional for the House to not fund it. Determining funding to run the government is the House's job. As a matter of fact, the government doesn't have enough money to fund much more than half of government operations...let alone Obamacare.

    2FreedomFighter41:
    "@ WRZ - Whether you like it or not, the ACA is as Constitutional as the right to bear arms and women's suffrage."

    Right to bear arms and suffrage are in the Constitution... Obamacare is not.

    "The Supreme Court fulfilled its role and ruled on this issue."

    The Court ruled on whether or not folks could be penalized for not buying health insurance. It said, 'yes, just call it a tax.' Doing so, the Court made (modified) law.

    @ECR:
    "Mike Richards and WRZ are the same person."

    Not so. Mike is from Utah, wrz is from AZ. Besides, Mike is more loquacious.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    @Redshirt1701
    "The only people that want to shut down the government are your ilk that want "all or nothing" when it comes to spending."

    My side doesn't want to shut down the gov't. Your side is the one that currently has Cruz fake filibustering (it's not a true filibuster) to drag this process on as long as possible before a bill can be passed. Your side is the one using a gov't shutdown aversion as a bargaining chip (apparently they consider a shutdown to be something of value) to try and get their way.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 3:14 p.m.

    @Open Minded Mormon
    "WHO'S trampling the United States Constitution?!"

    There is nothing unconstitutional about what House Republicans and Cruz et al are doing... morally objectionable sure, but not unconstitutional.

    @J Thompson
    You're wrong. Nationally health insurance premiums have increased the last few years at the slowest rate in half a century. I don't know how many times I have to say this, apparently you conservatives get an idea in your head (obamacare makes things cost more) and never actually bother to look up the data.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    @J Thompson - the good news for you and your doctor is that the Affordable Care Act does not dictate to doctors how to practice medicine. Unless your doctor just wanted and excuse to reitre in two years, the office should still be open.

    I want to thank you for writing your comment - it's a perfect example of the disinformation that exists about the ACA. It's not a government program; you won't enroll in "Obamacare" because it doesn't exist. There is a Medicare program and a Medicaid program but no Obamacare program. Under the ACA insurance carriers are limited on how and why they can cancel someone's insurance, they must cover preventive care 100% and they cannot exclude you for pre-existing conditions. The state marketplaces (aka exchanges) are clearinghouses for private insurance companies to offer their product to consumers. Some families will qualify for subsidies. Insurance companies must also spend 80% of their revenue on health care.

    The ACA isn't the solution for all our health care woes. It's one step in the right direction of expanded health care through expanding insurance coverage.

  • L White Springville, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 3:32 p.m.

    My goodness, what a dilemma!. Are we supposed to let some people on the Left redefine "compromise", just like some people redefined "marriage"?

    I think that the Republicans have compromised. I think that the Republicans gave the President everything that he deserved. I think that the President knows that ObamaCare will destroy the public's confidence in government. I think that the President has chosen to stop ObamaCare from going into effect because he knows that once we see the effects of that "health care bill" that people will turn against him and against everyone associated with that "act". I think that the Democrats know that if the bill is not defunded and that if the bill is implemented, that they will loose both the House and the Senate. So, what do they do? They blame the Republicans, even though not one Republican voted for ObamaCare.

    Now they want to redefine "compromise". They want everyone to think that only the Republicans have to "compromise". Sorry, Senators. You might fool your fellow Democrats, but you will never fool us Republicans.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 24, 2013 5:00 p.m.

    re:JThompson
    "I just got back from a "health screening" that is required every year for my health insurance. Because I had to wait about 1/2 hour, I had the chance to talk to fifteen people who were in the waiting area. Every one of them, every one, wanted ObamaCare off the books."

    Good grief!
    My guess is your doctor diagnosed 15 people with high blood pressure today.

    "The overarching fact about the ACA is that it relies on the private sector. Employers still buy private health insurance for their workers. The law doesn’t change how much doctors are paid or what services they can provide, though it does create incentives and penalties to promote better care. (One example: It penalizes hospitals if patients are re-admitted soon after being discharged.)

    If the health care law did get between doctors and patients, you would think most doctors would complain loudly. While some do, the leading physician advocacy group, the American Medical Association, does not. On the contrary, the AMA supports the law."
    (politifact)

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    The Senator that loves Texas, Mike Lee, is making a small point against compromise on the floor of the Senate now.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:43 p.m.

    It's too bad my first post got punted, because it was correct and did not exceed 200 words. A lot of what used to make this country work was based on a Congressional bi partisan approach to collectively ingesting and metabolising ethanol, and discussing policy matters while doing so. This approach, as I pointed out, seemed to be far more productive and beneficial than the current model.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 25, 2013 6:11 a.m.

    "I think one party rule is very dangerous for a country. And we had that those few months right after Obama was elected, the Democrats had 100% control of government."

    I completely agree that one party rule is dangerous for our country.

    Look what happened in 200-2006 when the GOP controlled all three branches of govt (ie 100 % control)

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    To "atl134" explain how sending a spending bill to fund all of the government, except the ACA will shut down the government. Harry Reid won't even allow the senate to vote on the bill (A.K.A. shutting down the government) and Obama has stated that he won't sign a bill that doesn't include ACA funding (A.K.A. shutting down the government).

    You have 2 democrat leaders stating that they would allow the government to shut down unless their demands are met.

    Unless Reid and Obama somehow switched over to become conservativs, it is your ilk that is on the record for wanting to shut down the government over the ACA.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 7:35 a.m.

    Of course Obama's supporters will tell us that everything will be wonderful. They forget that Kathleen Sebelius, the secretary of HHS, denied the services to a little 10-year-old girl that doctors had ordered. They forget that millions are not going to be covered, those millions who were promised that ObamaCare would take care of them. They forget the the "secretary" will decided who receives what care at what price. Have they read the bill? Apparently not. They are satisfied with Obama's "cliff notes". He has lied about every part of ObamaCare, yet they continue to believe him when the real experts, the doctors and hospitals administrators, have told us that our health care system will be on par with Canada's. How many people go to Canada to get major surgery? How many Canadians come to the United States for major surgery? (Read Robert Blendon and colleagues report in Health Affairs.)

    If you want to wait six months or more for surgery, you'll love ObamaCare. One of my wife's aunts has been waiting more than two years for hip surgery in Western Canada. She'll never get that surgery in Canada.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:09 a.m.

    "...if it can't get 100 percent of what it wants,"

    "pass a budget without drama."

    These are quotes by our president.

    Well Mr. President, the House passed 99% of the funding for the government.

    Sounds like you and the democrats are the ones who won't sign on unless you get 100% of what you want, and you are the ones creating the drama.

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    @J Thompson - You're repeating misinformation. Secretary Sibelius couldn’t deny treatment to anyone. The policy governing organ transplants prioritize adults over children with regard to adult organs; there were no matching child donors so the family wanted an adult lung. Sibelius did not override the policy and turned it over to medical experts to review the policy and recommend changes.

    The ACA regulates the behavior of insurance companies, limiting their ability to deny treatment and/or payment for treatment and implements an appeals process. The ACA is best understood as "health insurance reform" not health care reform. It prevents insurance companies from engaging in practices that have harmed millions of Americans.

    According to the World Health Organization, Canada’s health care system produces better outcomes than America’s (as do 37 other nations, including Costa Rica, Greece, and the UK). Medicare is a single payer system of health care. If we’re talking hip replacements, then you’re argument is that our single payer system is better than Canada’s and I’d argue we should have “Medicare for All.”

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 1:52 p.m.

    @Redshirt
    "how sending a spending bill to fund all of the government, except the ACA will shut down the government."

    Because the other chamber isn't going to pass a bill with that hyperpartisan measure. That's why you have Senate Republicans like McCain and Hatch railing against Mike Lee and friends.

  • gmlewis Houston, TX
    Sept. 25, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    If I recall correctly, the Supreme Court only ruled on the "mandatory" aspect of the ACA. This is not the same thing as declaring all of ACA to be Constitutional. Such a case has not yet appeared before the Supreme Court.

    I am amused reading that the House is "forcing" the Senate to reject the funding bill. The Senate has a perfect right to vote either "Yea" or "Nay." Since funding bills must originate in the House, it is only right that they include in it what they feel is best for the country.

    This corresponds to the President's right to choose which laws the Executive Branch will enforce. Seems to me like the Constitution is in full play.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 3:56 p.m.

    To "atl134" so then you agree that it is not the Republicans that are going to shut down the government, but is the Senate, Obama, and Progressives that will allow the government to shut down over political ideals.

    Just say it with me. Yes, it is the Progressives, not the House Republicans that are going to shut down the government. The Progressives are the ones that don't want to debate funding the ACA and want to bully the opposition into conforming.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Sept. 26, 2013 12:55 p.m.

    Constiutional Rights are not to be compromised ever. But I don't expect Washington to listen to me. All but 9% of the senate are in business for themselves anyway.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Sept. 26, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    So you call the NDAA consitutional? It was voted into law. But it violates the the 4th and 6th amendments. The law is void if it violates constitutional rights. People are telling you that's not the case but even if they implement the law it's still unconstiutional and we should treat it as such.

    With Obamacare, Congress wasn't even given time to read the 2,000 page bill before it was even voted on. I will quote Nancy Pelosi, "We have to vote for the bill so we can see whats in it." Not that it would've made any difference in the way the vote would have turned out if they had time to read the bill seeing as how Insurance Companies wrote the bill in the first place and so many members of congress are self serving.

    This will make life even harder for those who this bill is supposed to be helping because they won't be able to find full time employment anywhere due to CEO's not wanting to take a paycut and Mom and Pop businesses going under due to the strain.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Sept. 26, 2013 1:09 p.m.

    My Doctor is retiring early from this. I predict a mass shortage of Doctors and more private practices if they just don't all retire early.

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    Oct. 26, 2013 3:21 p.m.

    The allusion continues: There is no compromise, which is true because there is nothing to compromise when both parties are in on the same delusion! The word 'compromise' comes about when one individual rogue Senator or Congressmen actually wants to be honest with the American people.