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BYU-Utah rivalry live blog: Utah wins 20-13, using strong defensive effort to hold on for victory

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  • 2013 Ute Seniors SWEEP byU 4-0 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 7:55 p.m.

    Utah wins

    Byu loses

    Again!

    Mark it Down

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:02 p.m.

    Why do we INSIST on trying to run it up the middle. So far, it isn't working.

    Receivers are dropping too many balls.

    GO COUGARS!

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:02 p.m.

    Going about as expected. BYU has no offense. Sad to play this way at home in the BIG rivalry game. Congratulations to the Utes for knowing BYU weaknesses, the pass.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:19 p.m.

    Crowd seems flat.

    In my opinion, we're missing Hadley and his intesity on D.

    GO COUGARS!

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:20 p.m.

    Cougs look like they had the last week off. Utes are not a lot better but the skier is going to win this game.

    Go Utes!

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:26 p.m.

    Lol. Missed FG again! You all need a skier

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:28 p.m.

    Sorensen misses a chip shot FG from the mid-30s?

    Don't know why (suspect it's confidence) but he is not the same kicker he was in high school.

    GO COUGARS!

  • Cincinnatus Kearns, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:31 p.m.

    ThomasJefferson is already setting up the excuses in case of a loss.

    The REFS did it!

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:41 p.m.

    What's up cougs? 13 zip. I don't don't even have to wait for Phillips to kick. He does not miss. Love it!

  • DLC/Orange County Placentia, CA
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:48 p.m.

    Such a big difference, the team with the real offensive coordinator is acutally moving the ball. I am still amazed that Anaie was brought back. Same lame predicatable plays and an inaccurate quarterback.

  • Hey Baby Franklin, IN
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:49 p.m.

    Don't sweat Jeffersons comments!!!

    If we beat BYU he will insist they are better! Just like he claimed USU was better even though we beat them...

    Refs don't HOLD...an inept team does

  • Itchy Lehi, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    Can't get too cocky, there's still a lot of game left. Go Utes!

  • Y Grad Pumping Gas Beaver, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:04 p.m.

    Last time Utah played at LES the half time score was 13-10 Utah

    Can you say Deja vu

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:07 p.m.

    At what point do cougar fans start heading for the exits?

    Just blame it on the refs and keep it par for the course.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:20 p.m.

    I'm sure if Dennis Erickson wanted, he could have the QB line up under center instead of shotgun in short-yardage situations. That's my only complaint about the offense through three and a half games. Glad I'm not a Cougs fan in that department.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:24 p.m.

    I hope for the best for Williams. Neither of these teams can afford to lose any more players.

    Go UTES!!

  • utahcountyute Cedar Hills, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:28 p.m.

    I hope the Williams kids will be ok. This game's not that important.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:29 p.m.

    Hopefully Williams is okay, much more important than this game.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:33 p.m.

    Amen, utahcounty. Sorry to anyone if my last post seemed insensitive. Depth on these teams is the least of my worries with injuries like what just happened to Jamaal Williams. Best fortunes, kid.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:50 p.m.

    Gotta hand it to the Ute receivers. They're hanging on to the ball better than our guys.

    GO COUGARS!

  • youtefan Bountiful, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 10:59 p.m.

    I love j. William's Mom! Hope Williams is OK! Glad he is moving hands and feet!

  • Ute parents - me Cougar Rathdrum, ID
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:04 p.m.

    I'm all blue. But looks pretty one sided once again.

  • Ute parents - me Cougar Rathdrum, ID
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:14 p.m.

    Red zone melt down. AGAIN

  • Hillster Lehi, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:15 p.m.

    Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
    Albert Einstein
    Same old BYU bad play calling and lousy blocking. MENDENHALL NEEDS TO GO!!!

  • agb Layton, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:19 p.m.

    Credit goes to the Utes for executing better on offense and exploiting BYUs weak passing game on defense. BYU had their chances and couldn't produce; credit the Ute D. That being said, this might be the most inept BYU offense in recent memory. It's going to be a long season if Hill only completes 33% of his passes.

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:22 p.m.

    Gotta hand it to the Ute receivers. They're hanging on to the ball a little better than our guys.

    GO COUGARS!

    And.....Anae should be run out of town. I normally don't say such things but the play calling is awful.

    1st down - run up the middle
    2nd down - run up the middle
    3rd down - run up the middle
    4th down - punt.

    To not get a single punt off of JD Falsev's AWESOME punt return is simply inexcusable!

    Pls tell me again, WHY did we fire the CFL's leading receiver as our reciever's coach?

    GO COUGARS!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    Byu will never be worth watching while Bronco Mendenhall is the coach

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:50 p.m.

    We are officially owned. Congrats Utah--Wilson is a great quarterback. Hope Murphy is o.k.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:51 p.m.

    Great game all around. Good luck to the Ute football team the rest of the way.

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:51 p.m.

    Tough, hard-fought game. BYU played well, but my Utes prevail.

    Great job, Utes!!

  • jarka-rus Layton, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:52 p.m.

    Fire Bronco

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:53 p.m.

    Listen church hdqtrs......Mendenhall all has to go....hill couldn't hit a 100 x 100'foot high wall from within 2 ft.......is this the best QB we have? Olsen in high school could at least hit his recievers......why do you kill us every year with these poor QB choices......

  • HS Sport Dude Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:53 p.m.

    BYU fans and players are ridiculous. How about the last play the tall skinny kid pulling the defender into him to try and draw a pass interference. Utah.....for in a row has owned BYU in this century and last.....look at the records.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:54 p.m.

    Well, that's game. Why oh why can't my Cougs beat the Utes? BYU's the more talented team overall, I truly believe that, but for some reason BYU manages to beat themselves every time. Frustrating...but at least I have a degree from the Y. So it's a truce for a few years: yoots get the football win, we get the academic ratings.

    Seems fair, lol.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:55 p.m.

    Alum in replay booth on the Anderson holding...

    Flop Van Noy...

    Bone headed taunting by Row...

    but Utah still found a way to win the game.

    Cheer up BYU fans. The best team lost again. I know, know BYU hasn't lead in any game for 8 straight quarters but we lets just ignore that fact.

    Sweeeeeeeep! Sweeeeeeep! Picture me waving a broom.

    Lets get our TEs healthy and get ready for UCLA!!

    Go UTES!

  • 8plex Alpine, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    OK-- Make Bronco a Saint, put him on a mission, or better yet make him a GA but please oh please get another coach for the BYU Football team. Their goal of spreading the message has been lost with all of their losing.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    @ThomasJefferson

    I will admit the Utes D is a far sight better than Texas! They are playing on Hills weakness, passing!

    ----------

    DOH!

  • BleedCougarBlue Enid, OK
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    Nice TACKLE by Utah's DB #29 on our BYU's WR #10 on the last play of the game.

    That's right, t-a-c-k-l-e.

    No Pass Interference?

    What a croc!....

  • Love skiing Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:56 p.m.

    Gooooooooooooo Utes.

  • Koloss Hampton, VA
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    Seniors get the sweep! KVN never beats his big brother! GO UTES!!!

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    Bragging rights for the next 3 years!

    Go Utes!!

  • UteNationAlum Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    4 in a row!

    Y seniors never taste victory over the Utes!

    How sweet it is!!!!!

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:58 p.m.

    The only thing that I've seen about this up paced offense that Robert Anae drug out of Arizona is that it puts BYU in the hole earlier and still has Anae's signature of mostly resorting to gambling with very little imagination put into it.

  • SUNNY ALL DAY Saint George, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:59 p.m.

    Best wishes to Jamal Williams for a speedy recovery.

  • 4 in a row! Ogden, UT
    Sept. 21, 2013 11:58 p.m.

    Who ‘likes’ the new moniker?

    Of course, this is dedicated to my friends duck, too smart, worf and a few others.

    Utes, congratulations on win number 3 this season. Just let it go, and focus on game 5!

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:00 a.m.

    Did the better team win? They did tonight & the 3 yrs preceding.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:01 a.m.

    Congrats to the Utes. Another close game but not enough production from Hill.

    Wilson will be sore for a few days. KVN had his number.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:02 a.m.

    If the Williams kid is okay, this will be a perfect night for this ute fan. Congrats on a gritty effort BYU. Live with the memory of this for a couple of seasons. We'll see you at res in a couple of years! What a win!

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:05 a.m.

    KVN is a stud.

    Hope Williams is ok.

    UTAH...

    Stay humble...continue to work hard!

    Go UTES!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:09 a.m.

    God Bless America!

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:10 a.m.

    To those special individuals obsessed with hating Utah, this really has to sting.

    But don't worry! We're all looking forward to the excuses, the spin, and the hiding behind other teams who might be fortunate enough to do what your team clearly can't.

    Your denial aside, Utah absolutely owns you on the football field. Now just let that sit for the next few years.

    GO UTES!!!!

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:12 a.m.

    Business as usual. Now lets make some noise in the Pac 12.

    Go UTES!!

  • UteNationAlum Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:13 a.m.

    It is now obvious the different directions these two programs are heading. It's a great time to be a Ute!

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    Man, it's almost as if Utah is indisputably the better team, and BYU has only won more games the past few years because they've played against much weaker competition.

    Nah that doesn't make sense ;)

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:16 a.m.

    re: Ute parents - me Cougar

    I'm sorry; what color zone did byu melt down in tonight??

  • Where's Stockton ??? Bowling Green, OH
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    Anae's fizzle offense gets flatter faster now that it's up paced...so much for the Arizona connection.

  • truthsandwich RANDOLPH, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:20 a.m.

    I'm going to miss the rivalry during the hiatus.

    I enjoy the silence from the Ute-haters when we they get their annual beat down. Almost as much as the frantic spin when they crawl back out of hiding a few weeks after.

  • Rocket Science Brigham City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:23 a.m.

    In the end Congratulations from a cougar fan to our friends at the U. You are the better team and you deserved the win. Congratulations good luck the remainder of the season!

  • nosaerfoecioveht NSL, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:25 a.m.

    I hope Williams is ok. That kid has a promising career ahead of him.

    To the real coug fans, good game! Always a fun one. Good luck the rest of the season.

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:28 a.m.

    Has anyone heard a report on Williams?

  • Darth Vader Ogden, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:37 a.m.

    Did those Pac-12 refs give the ball back to BYU after taunting?

  • 54-10 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    Another Utah win makes it 4 in a row.

    Bet the typical BYU "fan" was in Tulsa again today.

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    Carma!

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:00 a.m.

    sammyg

    "Wilson will be sore for a few days. KVN had his number." So...tell this board what "unfinished business" KVN had this year.

    Oh...and can we get a sound bite from JD Falslev, please.

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:07 a.m.

    BleedCougarBlue:

    Go watch the replay. The Cougar receiver pulled the DB on top of him. I actually give him (the WR) credit. It was a heady attempt to draw a penalty to try to extend the game. Some call it cheating, some call it gamesmanship. We need to take off our our blue colored glasses. BYU didn't get it done.

  • rogerdpack2 Orem, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:09 a.m.

    Congrats to the Utes.

  • Rockarolla West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:15 a.m.

    Ugly game. When was the last time two teams combined for almost 900 yards of total offense and the score was only 20-13. Both these teams stink!

  • clehman Sandy, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:15 a.m.

    I guess Utah might be better than Texas.

    Bone headed move by Rowe... otherwise we win by 14.

    12 days until UCLA.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:31 a.m.

    per BleedCougarBlue 9/21 4 minutes to midnight

    It was a really lame attempt @ a suplex by the byu wr on a REALLY bad pass by Taysom.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:33 a.m.

    Newsflash; both teams had harsh calls go against them. If you know football, Utah dominated both lines of scrimmages. The call on Rowe was inconsistent with how the game was being officiated. One stop there without the call and Utah has the ball up 20-6 with under 4 minutes.

  • GK Willington Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:34 a.m.

    basic math for sammyg...

    7 > 3
    7 - 3 = 4.... in a row!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 22, 2013 1:38 a.m.

    sammyg
    Springville, UT

    Congrats to the Utes. Another close game but not enough production from Hill.

    Wilson will be sore for a few days. KVN had his number.

    ------------

    We have your number, we just won your Super Bowl. The only number that matters is: 0-4.

    Nope, it wasn't a close game since Utah never trailed and BYU never threatened to take the game away from Utah.

  • Proud Ute ,
    Sept. 22, 2013 4:33 a.m.

    @Bleedblue

    Guess you missed the part everybody else caught that the receiver PULLED the defender into him hoping for the call. Smart play on his part but the refs saw right through it. It was replayed several times after the end of the game and the No Call was the right call.

  • ImABeliever Provo, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 6:53 a.m.

    College Football = Overrated. Just a poorly run business.

  • zachbrwn new york, NY
    Sept. 22, 2013 7:17 a.m.

    I don't understand with an extra week to prepare, We have the same results.
    A OB that is one dimensional, and the awful play calling.

  • Cinci Man FT MITCHELL, KY
    Sept. 22, 2013 7:24 a.m.

    Congratulations Utah. You have earned the Beehive Boot again this year and it is well deserved. And congratulations Kyle Wittingham for being the best coach on the field today, again.

  • wwookie Payson, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 7:25 a.m.

    KVN is the real deal. Fun to watch him play.

    Game was too costly for both teams injury wise. Hope They all are ok and come back soon.

    Utes have dominated this series this century and KW has proven to be a superior coach.

    BYU fans can't make up their minds about Bronco and Anae. They have left the realm of Olympus and now are relegated to the leper colony.

    ...and to answer my earlier question, BYU fans flocked to the exits with just under 2 minutes to play. They must have thought they would turn into pumpkins if they didn't get home by midnight.

  • TheNun Granstville, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    At Tommy Jefferson,

    Yes, I agree the refs totally were responsible for Hill's 18-48 passing. They, also, all blew hard at the same time and made Sorenson's FG shank to the left. And, the dang refs made Robert Anae keep calling run plays up the middle. Worst officiating crew in America clearly lost the game for the Cougars.

  • TheNun Granstville, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    At Voice of Reason,

    Is that what you learned at the Y? Make reality more bearable by trying to spin everything in your favor. Do not EVER face the facts, do not EVER man up and admit any weaknesses so they can be overcome. And most of all, do not EVER concede defeat was caused by better play from an opponent. Do not EVER congratulate the victor, only make far fetched reaches at trying to spin the loss as poor play by your team, and nothing to do with better play from the Utes.

    Nice degree, too bad it doesn't come with any logic or a hint of reality.

  • Steven S Jarvis Orem, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 9:18 a.m.

    The main reason Utah won last night wasn't any of the old cliches such as the refs or we beat ourselves. It wasn't Hill's passing either since most of his balls were well placed or intentional throwaways. Both teams executed their game plans cleanly. The only turnover should have been batted down into the turf (turnonver on downs) so TO's were not a factor. Utah won the game on two accounts. The unfortunate loss of Williams limited BYU's run game immensely and was the ending point of the game for BYU. Williams was just getting going after the D line of Utah had been pounded. BYU had to CATCH the ball from that point. The Utes defenders tackled BYU receivers nearly every instance that Hill got them the ball. Hill WAS accurate most of the time. The Cougars just couldn't hold onto the ball.

    Credit to the Utes secondary. At least 15 balls were not caught because of clean tackles as the ball hit the receiver.

    I had to chuckle on that last play. It was a PI UNTIL the player decided to tackle his defender onto him. Good Non-call.

  • JohnJacobJingleHeimerSchmidt Beverly Hills, CA
    Sept. 22, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    I do NOT bleed cougar blue.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    @Steven S Jarvis

    The main reason Utah won last night wasn't any of the old cliches...The unfortunate loss of Williams limited BYU's run game immensely and was the ending point of the game for BYU. Williams was just getting going after the D line of Utah had been pounded.

    -----------------

    What?!? In denial I see.

    Williams wasn't doing any such thing nor was BYU's offense. Considering over his last two series before he was injured he carried the ball 6 times for 3.8 yard per carry.

    2 yards to the BYU 30
    5 yards to the BYU 25
    2 yards to the Utah 14
    9 yards to the BYU 36
    3 yards to the Utah 35
    2 yards to the Utah 27

    He averaged 4.0 yards per carry during the game, against Virgina and Texas the two worst defenses in the nation he averaged over 4.5+ yards per game.

    BYU fast and furious offense had 4.5 yards per play, Utah was 5.9.

    FACT: BYU ran for over 200+ yards against #120 and #128 defense

    FACT: BYU played the #28 defense and ran for 185 yards, same as Utah State 175 yards.

    Go UTES!!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 22, 2013 12:08 p.m.

    S Jarvis

    The unfortunate loss of Williams limited BYU's run game immensely and was the ending point of the game for BYU.

    -----------

    Nope! According to math:

    * Before Williams was injured: Utah 13 BYU 3 (Utah +10)

    * After the injury: Utah 20 BYU 13 (Utah +7)

    The ending point on the game was when Utah's defense shut down BYU's game plan by forcing Hill to become a passer.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 9:01 p.m.

    I've read all the comments so far, and it's become obvious that some things never change: lots of congrats from BYU fans to Utah, a couple of gracious Utah replies, and a WHOLE LOT of vicious BYU-hating and below-the-belt swipes that border on religious bigotry from other Ute fans. As an out-of-state transplant who grew up on the Oregon/Oregon State rivalry, the BYU/UTAH thing really isn't a rivalry - it's an outlet for hatred, pure and simple. Both ways to an extent, but frankly I've always seen a LOT more coming from Utah fans for some reason.

    While celebrating BYU's loss, remember that Utah also won. I know, that's just a minor distraction from the real Muss party over BYU's loss, but hey it's there.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 9:12 p.m.

    TheNun,

    Go ahead, enlighten us on how it's just "spin" that BYU's #62 nationwide USNWR rating is almost exactly TWICE as good as Utah's #121 rating. Actually, I didn't learn that at the Y - I learned that 62>121 in grade school.

    But hey, those utes still have a better football score from last night. Yeah, I wish my boys in blue had come out on top, but if I had to choose, I'd pick a BYU degree over a BYU football win any day.

    Fact: Utah was the better football team last night.

    Fact: BYU is an elite academic institution with a worldwide reputation, and Utah is a pretty good regional college that got picked for the Pac-12 because the other liberal/secular indoctrination schools in the league were terrified of having a religious school in their midst that actually teaches their students to think for themselves.

    If you're getting the feeling that academics is more important to me than football, then gold star for you.

  • StGtoSLC SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 10:52 p.m.

    What grade school teaches that 62>121? I want to make sure my kids never go there.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 11:16 p.m.

    Voice of Reason
    I've never understood the USNWR survey results for universities. I don't understand how they decide what to measure and I don't understand how they measure it. Most of all, I don't understand how they verify the responses received (unaudited = no controls). Frankly, I am absolutely perplexed how byu can check in at #61 when their rankings among graduate school programs are utterly pathetic.

    However, I do understand that byu has no medical school, pharmacy school, hospital, or planned school of dentistry. I also understand that byu has never been, is not now, and never will be a research university.

    Further, I am certain that when the Pac-10 Presidents and Chancellors decided to expand the conference they DIDN'T gather around a big table, pass out the current issue of USNWR and say..."ok fellas, let's use this magazine to decide who to invite to our elite conference."

    Nope, they didn't do that. They got in their private jets and met with University of Utah officials. They verified what they were told and through their own investigation they determined that Utah meets the Pac-10 academic and research profile.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 22, 2013 11:21 p.m.

    Voice of Reason (con't)

    If you want to wrap yourself in the comfort of a magazine, that's your business. For me? I'll take the invitation, which was based on the due diligence and ratification by the Presidents and Chancellors of some of the best schools in the world, as evidence of the academic and research excellence that is...The University of Utah.

    Utah in...byu out.

    End of story.

  • Voice ofReason LAYTON, UT
    Sept. 23, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    USNWR is hardly the most accurate way to judge a university's quality, I agree. But it IS the most widely used, for better or worse, and generally does a passable job in showing the relative prestige of many institutions, if not with perfect accuracy. Utah is a great school - I almost went to graduate school there after the Y. But most programs, including graduate programs, are rated much higher at the Y than at the U so I'm not sure where you're getting your information, MyPerspective.

    Actually, BYU most certainly is a Research University, and classified as such by the Carnegie classification system used in higher ed. And while Utah has been better in football than BYU in recent years, BYU has a much bigger, international fan base with a better historical win% than many of the Pac 12. And BYU has a HIGHER national academic USNWR rating than the Pac-12 league average by a good 25%.

    It wasn't research status (BYU is). It wasn't academic rigor (BYU's better than most PAC-12 schools). It wasn't football strength. It's a simple truth that the Pac-12 rejected BYU because of its religious affiliation, pure and simple.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Sept. 23, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    RE: Voice ofReason

    "It wasn't research status (BYU is). It wasn't academic rigor (BYU's better than most PAC-12 schools). It wasn't football strength. It's a simple truth that the Pac-12 rejected BYU because of its religious affiliation, pure and simple."

    Sorry Voice ofReason, but that's just not true. BYU (high research) does NOT have the same research status as Utah (very high research), which was a consideration in picking teams to join the PAC. Now, it wasn't so big a deterrent that they weren't willing to invite Oklahoma State (also high research), but there is a difference.

    The U is ranked higher than BYU by almost all rankings that deal with research. That is because they do have more research programs and thereby more research/grant money. It doesn't matter that BYU has several higher ranked grad programs, and their undergraduate program is more rigorous, has higher admissions standards, and prepares students better for grad school.

    Why is this even an argument on this thread?

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 7:55 a.m.

    It's an argument because I brought up academic differences between BYU and Utah earlier in the thread. My point was, and is, that these are schools we're talking about, not professional sports teams, so we ought to keep things civil.

    And I'm sorry, but the relatively minor technical difference of "high research" vs. "very high research" would never have mattered if the Pac-12 ws really motivated by academic selectiveness and football tradition. If those were really the selection criteria, the Pac-12 would've taken BYU in a heartbeat since they have always in the past accepted teams together as rivalry twins; Utah is the first time they refused to do so.

    It's common knowledge among sports journalists that at least some of the Pac-12 schools were dead-set against BYU mainly because of BYU's religious affiliation, and especially the Church's recent Prop 8 opposition in California.

    BYU has a higher academic reputation, and is more selective, than every school that has joined the Pac-12 since the early 1960s. I don't care about BYU being in the Pac-12, I really don't, but I DO care about religious bigotry. THAT bothers me big-time.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    "because the other liberal/secular indoctrination schools in the league were terrified of having a religious school in their midst that actually teaches their students to think for themselves."

    I think you got this 100% wrong. The culture of BYU, and its honor code, do not foster an atmosphere of exploring, trying new things, and especially thinking for yourself. Standards are set for you at BYU.

  • JonA Ogden, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:00 a.m.

    Not the prettiest of games, but I'll take it! It's always great to beat BYU, but let's be honest both of these teams have to step it up to make bowls. Byu fans will now resort to enjoying the Utes get beat by the PAC-12 powerhouses, but BYU would fair no better. Both programs have a ways to go to get to a truly elite level.

    Utah has a bright future though, even if they don't bowl this season. BYU does an amazing job with the constraints they place on their program, they really do. But this independence isn't helping them grow as a team and they really, really need the BIG 12 or risk falling behind Utah for good.

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:19 a.m.

    "I think you got this 100% wrong."

    You obviously haven't been to a typical university lately, where the political science faculty, for example, are almost always 90%+ liberal/leftist, and do not try to hide it. The tone in too many university classes today make it very, very clear that your grade depends on looking at the world through a liberal/leftist lens, and conservative thought from students is bullied, ridiculed and belittled by professors, but only rarely actually debated on its merits in a respectful way. I know this from personal experience.

    This, despite the fact that far more Americans call themselves conservative than liberal. This, despite the fact that conservatives have a higher average level of schooling. Conservatism isn't some crazy, fringe philosophy in America - it's the philosophy of more than half of Americans, and the better-educated half at that.

    BYU, on the other hand, has a faculty that roughly reflects American society. About half of my professors who shared their politics were left, about half right. THAT'S where university faculties should be, so students actually DO learn to think for THEMSELVES by hearing BOTH sides of American politics. Just hearing one side is indoctrination.

  • Wiscougarfan River Falls, WI
    Sept. 24, 2013 11:44 a.m.

    RE: Two For Flinching

    "I think you got this 100% wrong. The culture of BYU, and its honor code, do not foster an atmosphere of exploring, trying new things, and especially thinking for yourself. Standards are set for you at BYU."

    Your experience attending BYU must have been quite different from my own. The culture of BYU and it's honor code were things I was already familiar and comfortable with. The experiences I had at BYU certainly opened my eyes to what the world had to offer and helped me establish my own personal goals and standards. Indeed, much of BYU's reputation comes from those who "explored, tried new things, and thought for themselves."

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 24, 2013 8:34 p.m.

    @ Voice of Reason

    Some of your facts are incorrect. This very paper published a story back on 2/27/2010 about a study that confirmed people with college degrees are more likely to identify with a liberal political view.

    I currently attend the U and most, if not all, of my classes that dealt with politics were fairly evenly split between political affiliations. I have never had a professor that graded me based on whether I agreed with their view or not. Professors don't care what a person's view is as long as it is supported by facts and that they identified and defended it with well thought out logic.

    Lastly, just because a professor challenges you to think about things in a different way that doesn't mean they are trying to change you, or that you HAVE to prescribe to that way of thinking for the rest of forever. "It is the mark of an educated mind to be able to entertain an idea without accepting it."

  • Voice of Reason Layton, UT
    Sept. 25, 2013 8:52 a.m.

    @ Two For Flinching,

    Actually, my facts are empirically supported by empirical facts. The DN story you shared was about a survey on four narrow issues, and did not measure political self-identification vs. educational attainment, which is the only sure way to measure personal politics since a) there are many more issues than those 4, c) the surveyors have their own differing ideas on what "liberal" and "conservative" means, and b) specific-issue survey questions are riddled with survey bias problems based on how the questions are asked; better to just let someone use their OWN definition of liberal/conservative, since that's what we're measuring anyway. And by that standard, Americans are about twice as likely to identify as conservative than liberal, and total educational attainment (yrs) is higher for conservatives. That being said, liberals are far more likely to be high schools dropouts or PhD holders, the extremes on both ends.

    I'm glad that your experience at the U has been such an uncommon exception from the norm, and I certainly don't know the specific political leanings of the U's political science faculty. But I DO know the politics nationwide, and academia is overwhelmingly liberal.