Tipping is a scam devised by restaurateurs and the like as a means of getting
out of having to pay their own people a fair wage.
If you can't afford the 15% to 20% tip, you shouldn't be eating out.
The people who constantly complain about poor service should also taking a long,
truthful review of what they do that attracts the disappointing service.
If a person works for a restaurant, he should be paid a fair wage for his/her
services. If the customer thinks that extra effort has been given, then that
customer should leave a tip. The minimum wage law should apply to
everyone. Of course paying minimum wage to all workers would make it cost more
to go to a restaurant. The prices would have to rise to pay the wages, but tips
would be optional, so prices could rise by 15% to 20% without changing the
actual cost of the meal.Until that changes, we will leave a generous
tip for good service because we know that the entire staff depends on those
tips. We've had several children who worked in restaurants who told us how
discouraging it is to work eight hours and get only $10 in tips for those ten
@Anti-Liar, That may be the case, but yet those folks still earn $2/hour.
If you don't want to pay a tip, don't eat at places that have
servers, eat somewhere you server yourself, its that simple.
How about we "tip" CEOs for good serve and stiff them for bad?I get upset when a CEO runs a company into the ground, yet STILL gets a
$50 million golden parachute for ruining the company.
Let's make tipping completely optional for exceptional service, and change
laws in favor of fair wages. Tipping should NOT be routine or expected, it
should ONLY be for service above and beyond.
Record this moment.I completely agree with Mike Richards.
What happened to minimum wage?What respectable employer would pay a
valued employee $2.00/hour in this day and age? Or expect their customers to
pay their employees for them?I agree that tips should be a way for
customers to show their appreciation for exemplary service... not an expectation
regardless of service.I follow the tipping rules, but IMO America
should be more like Europe on pay (living wage) and tipping (not expected).
re: Mike RichardsComplaining about the Free Market? Interesting.
Surely, your progeny knew what they were getting into. Something similar to
Caveat Emptor applies.That said, I divide the total bill by 6
(approx 16%) & work my way up.re: LDS LiberalI read
a story recently where 40% of CEO'sS were awful in terms of performance,
etc... Any wagers on most of these being the too big to fails/Wall St?
I have seldom left more than a 10% tip. I'm going with "Thinkin\'
Man" on this one. Restaurants should not hide the cost of meals through
"expected" behavior. Should we leave a tip for the cashier in the
grocery store? Reams used to say "we add only 10% to these prices" but
people started seeing through the ramifications of "only 10%". Imagine
if a restaurant said "we add only 18% to these prices". They would be
run out of town.
"I have seldom left more than a 10% tip. I'm going with
"Thinkin\' Man" on this one. Restaurants should not hide the cost
of meals through "expected" behavior."You're not
hurting the restaurant here. By going out to eat, paying for your meal, and then
stiffing your server you are ONLY hurting the server. The restaurant got your
money, and that's all they care about. You're not forcing any changes
to our tipping system. All you're doing is being a cheapskate and hurting
some college student. I have some advice: What would you do if this
server was your child? "Should we leave a tip for the cashier in
the grocery store?"Servers don't do more than a Reams
cashier? Are Reams cashiers paid $2.13 per hr? "Imagine if a
restaurant said "we add only 18% to these prices". They would be run out
of town."I have worked at several busy restaurants that added an
18 percent gratuity to tables of 6+. I never had a problem with people refusing
to pay this or not coming back. I guess only selfish people would see an 18
percent auto-gratuity as some sort of "injustice" or "gouging."
Let us get the tipped; employees don’t make minimum wage fallacy out of
the way. All tipped position make at least minimum wage. They make 2.13 per hour
plus tips. If the amount they make in tips + their hourly wage of 2.13 per hour
does not add up to the federal minimum wage the restaurant is required to make
up the difference. If the restaurant is not making up the difference the wait
staff should contact the appropriate governmental regulatory agency, or an
employment lawyer. I normally tip 20% or more however if I get awful service I
will make that less. I know the wait staff will at least get minimum wage.I always pay the tip by credit card. If you pay tips with cash, odds
are the amount tipped will go underreported for tax purposes. Which means even
the wait staff makes the same as someone else who doesn’t get tips, the
take home pay could be much higher.
"Tipping is a scam devised by restaurateurs and the like as a means of
getting out of having to pay their own people a fair wage."You're correct.So are you now suggesting that the free market
doesn't necessarily resolve to make things better for the worker? That
*gasp* government intervention might be needed to make up for the shortcomings
and injustices of the free market?Wow! What a crazy day! The free
market folks today are agreeing that the free market has failed in the
restaurant agency and that government intervention is necessary! It's
probably because they've actually had children work in this sector!Now if only we could have a few of these folks denied health insurance
because of pre-existing conditions and they'd suddenly become huge
supporters of Obamacare!
Should we feel as good about providing tax funded social services for underpaid
Wal-Mart workers as we feel about tipping underpaid restaurant employees?Seems like the CEO's do pretty well for themselves in both of these
situations at our expense. That, lost in DC, is why it's relevant.
I sympathize with the writer, Compassion is all they want Show it with some
How did the topic swing to CEO bashing and Free Market bashing? Must EVERY
topic come back to this?
From the letter: "Waiters and waitresses cannot make a living off 10 percent
tips."People can't make a living off the minimum wage,
either, and yet critics of a raise maintain that the minimum wage is already
high enough, or that there shouldn't be a minimum wage at all, but that an
employer should be allowed to pay as little as he thinks the job is worth - and
if you want higher pay, find another job.Suppose a waitress serves
four tables an hour, that every table has a $20 bill, and that she receives a
10% ($2) tip from each. Added to her wages, that would make $10.13 an hour,
almost $3 more than the minimum wage.If, according to the critics,
the present minimum wage is high enough for workers at a fast-food restaurant,
jobs requiring no special skill, why isn't $10 or $12 dollars an hour
adequate pay for waitresses, another job requiring no special skill?And if people agree that $10 an hour is too little for a waitress, why do
those same people think that $7.25 an hour is enough, or more than enough, for a
If I remember correctly, when my daughters were in college and working as
servers, the IRS taxed them for 15% of the total of the sales tickets with their
server number on them. Thus, servers were being taxed for 15% whether or not
their customers left a tip.Is that still the case?
I can't remember the last time I got a tip just for doing my job. But then
my employer pays me what my job is worth (to him).Why don't
restaurant owners just pay their people what he thinks their work is worth (to
him)? I mean without THEM... he doesn't make very much money. Seems like he should factor their wages into the price of the food and just
pay his employees.To me it makes no sense for the employer to expect
his customers to pay his employees salary.The only angle I can find
where it makes sense is IF the restaurant owner sees the waitresses as
freelancers working for the the customer (and not for him). Then it would make
sense for the customer to determine what the waitress gets paid, because they
work for him (not the restaurant). But that's kind of a stretch.IMO they should include the full wage into the price of the meal and pay the
waitress from proceeds. Note:Some waitresses prefer tips
instead of salary because they can earn more IF they serve a lot of tables and
to 2 bits 11:16 a.m. Sept. 11"How did the topic swing to CEO
bashing and Free Market bashing? Must EVERY topic come back to this?"You forgot Option 3... Mendenhall or Whittingham (depending on
allegiance) is the devil incarnate.
"I have seldom left more than a 10% tip ... Restaurants should not hide the
cost of meals through 'expected' behavior." - Then the
server is paying for you to eat there. Is the system set up right? Not at all.
But until that day comes it is set up right, don't take your anger out on
the server because the tipping system is set up wrong. "Suppose
a waitress serves four tables an hour, that every table has a $20 bill, and that
she receives a 10% ($2) tip from each. Added to her wages, that would make
$10.13 an hour, almost $3 more than the minimum wage."- Not that
simple. They have to tip out other people; more confusing than you think. "when my daughters were in college and working as servers, the IRS
taxed them for 15% of the total of the sales tickets with their server number on
them. Thus, servers were being taxed for 15% whether or not their customers left
a tip."- From my understanding that is correct.Basically, by tipping 18% servers earn their "wages". Anything more is
a "tip". Sucks, but that is the system. How do we change it?
@ Smart Cookie "I always pay the tip by credit card. If you pay
tips with cash, odds are the amount tipped will go underreported for tax
purposes."Swing and a miss.I've worked in
restaurants for over 8 years. You are wrong. ALL tips are recorded for tax
purposes. If the IRS finds a restaurant or person evading taxes, game over. All tips are reported. It doesn't matter whether it's cash or
@ Lightbearer"Suppose a waitress serves four tables an hour,
that every table has a $20 bill, and that she receives a 10% ($2) tip from each.
Added to her wages, that would make $10.13 an hour, almost $3 more than the
minimum wage."You've obviously never worked in a
restaurant. So allow me to shed some light on this topic.A waitress
doesn't begin her shift when those 4 tables arrive. Nor does it end when
they leave. Servers arrive HOURS before any guest enters the restaurant. They
leave hours after the last guest has left. In one of the most famous restaurants
in Provo, many of our servers arrive 9-10am and leave well after midnight. The
restaurant opens at 11 and closes at 10. Servers arrive early to
prepare food and ready the restaurant. Servers stay late to prepare food and
clean the restaurant. For a few hours a server may earn more than min wage. But
when you factor in the hours they work without tips, it amounts to min wage.Believe what you want from AM radio or listen to someone who knows that
they're talking about from years of working in the trenches.
Bashing CEOs is just a form of coveting. Those who want to tell us what a
person should be paid have no respect for the free market system. They want to
dictate to others what "others" are worth. That is none of their
business. If they don't like the salary that a CEO is paid, they have the
option to NOT buy anything from that business; otherwise, part of the product or
service that they buy pays that CEO's wages.A restaurant owner
knows the law. He knows what he must pay and he knows what those workers expect
to earn in tips. I don't agree that any person should rely on tips, but I
do believe that leaving a tip shows apprciation for the service. I tip my
barber. I tip the waiter. I would prefer that everyone be paid at
least the minimum wage and that tips be paid for service above that which was
expected.What I pay in tips reflects on what I feel about others.
If I can't tip a waiter, I go to a fast-food restaurant.
to Mike Richards"Bashing CEOs is just a form of
coveting."Thats quite a leap in logic. Please enlighten??"Those who want to tell us what a person should be paid have no
respect for the free market system"You mean like choosing (as
EVERYTHING in life is about agency) to be a waiter knowing "market
forces" are stscked against you like a game of 3 card monte.
Re: "You've obviously never worked in a restaurant."That's why I said "suppose" - a hypothetical case for lack of
better information. I tried to make my estimate low, because I assumed - though
apparently I was mistaken - that a server would average more than four tables an
hour over the course of a shift, unless the shift was completely dead.If waiters and waitresses spend a lot of their time not serving customers, and
if they have to be present whether there are customers or not, that's all
the more reason they should be paid a decent wage to start with and not have to
depend on tips. They are selling their employer their time, something of which
we all have only a limited quantity, and that time has value whether customers
happen to be present or not.And whether a person is a waiter or
waitress in a restaurant or a worker at a fast-food joint, both should be paid
decent wages.Re: "Believe what you want from AM radio
..."I don't know where this remark came from. Is tipping a
hot topic on AM radio?
Tipping is unfair, has nothing to do with value, and is cheating society by
putting false value on attitude, attractiveness and your own feelings at the
time. If a person wishes to work for low wages, that’s their
own choice. They should not expect me to make up for their lack of power to
demand better wages.
The part that frustrates me is that is seems the % of the tip keeps going up. I
remember when 10% was the expected percentage. Then it went to 12-15%. Then
15-18% Now people say 18-20%. Why does it keep going up? Don't say
inflation because inflation occurs in the price of the meal. What was a $10
meal is now $20 (100% inflation) and what was a 1$ tip, is now a 4$ (400%
inflation).If a server doesn't like the money, then do
something else. Its their choice.
Merriam Webster Dictionary definition of gratuity: something given voluntarily
or beyond obligation usually for some service; Just sayin...
In the United States, you can often leave a small tip and then sneak out of the
restaurant before your server notices it. (I have done this only once in my
life when the service was almost criminally negligent.) A friend of mine from
overseas claims that in some other countries it's good etiquette to tell
your server (to his or her face!) what the tip is so the server can calculate
the total bill with the tip included. I wonder whether tips in the U.S. would
get a lot bigger if we followed this practice. But it always annoys me when
restaurants add an automatic 18% tip for parties of six or more, and they
calculate on the total after sales taxes. I was always taught that tips are
calculated on the pre-tax total.
They even want tips on take out! And I have to do the dishes!!
@Daniel LeifkerI have never understood why Americans put up with the
tipping system there. In the UK, you tip if you get good service, you dont tip
if you get bad service. When I lived in the States I got poor service on the odd
occasion and the people with me said, "we will only leave a 15% tip".
Pay the servers minimum wage, I always laugh when people complain that a pay
rise to the staff will just make the food more expensive. You are paying 20%
extra at the end anyway.Oh and another thing, I cannot stand over friendly
service staff who pretend to be your best friend to get a decent tip. Bring the
food, check everything is okay every now and then but I dont want to listen to
your life story or a poor attempt at a stand up routine.
@Smart Cookie;Having worked in the restaurant business when I was
young, I can assure you that the restaurant DID NOT make up the difference.
Where did you get that idea?For the first time ever, I agree with
Mike Richards (miracles do happen).Personally, I would prefer that
servers made a decent wage and that tips were optional. I feel OBLIGATED to
tip, even when the service is less than satisfactory simply because I am aware
of the wage the server is making. I despise feeling obligated to tip.
I agree with what others here have said -- it is unconscionable that restaurant
owners can pass the buck (pun intended) on compensating their employees directly
to their customers.I'm surprised, though, that nobody has
mentioned the fact that the tips don't just directly go to the wait staff.
Tips get split with the bussers and the kitchen staff, which contributes to the
reality of tipping being less favorable than Lightbearer's scenario
(though, to be fair, Lightbearer admitted to not knowing the details of
restaurant staff compensation). This also means that when you get poor service
from a waiter/waitress and you dock their tip (or don't tip them at all),
not only are you punishing the waiter/waitress, but you are also docking the pay
of the busser and the kitchen staff.It's a horrible system, but
I don't know how to change it, short of government intervention, and that
is anathema to the right-wingers, particularly the laissez faire capitalists who
believe that "the market" is ALWAYS right.
Seems like a weird system to me (make the meal seem inexpensive but expect you
to pay 15-20% more than the price on the menu). Like when Reams used to brag
about having the lowest prices (to which they add 8% at checkout)... What's
up with that??Reams eventually did away with their artificial
prices... maybe someday restaurants will too.McDonalds workers make
more than $2.00/hour. Why would a McDonalds worker make more per hour than a
worker at a super fancy restaurant? They have to do dishes at McDonalds too
(not the dishes you eat off, but the dishes and utensils they use to prepare
MisterJ,why do you even care what the rich make if it's not coveting?
the logic is very clear.
@Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, UtahBashing CEOs is just a form of
coveting. ========= Perhaps a "form", But face it,wanting, wishing, dreaming that YOU had that kind of wealth
IS the very definition of covet.Most of us Bleeding heart Liberals
don't want to be filthy rich, especially at the expense of others.We just a better level-loading or slice of the pie that produced that wealth
-- because WE make for the wealthy.Conservatives seem to worship
wealth, and WallStreet, even though many are the blood sucking 47%...and want
the "freedom" to be "just like them!" no matter who's
expense. i.e., covet.
Okay let's see. The average waiter has six tables at a time, the average
bill is $60.00 making the 10% tip (to insure promptness) six dollars. Averaging
$36.00 dollars per hour. If they do this for say an eight hour shift five days a
week and fifty two weeks a year then the taxable income would be just under 75K
per year in tips alone. I have had great service at many restaurants and
when I don't feel like tipping then I go to a restaurant that it is not
expected. There are many in society that do not earn enough for what they do but
are happy doing it. Money isn't the point!
Adressing those who think tips are a non-taxable cash earnings -- IRS form 1040, 1040A, and W-2Box 1-- (Wages, tips, other
compensation) ... But go ahead, keep worshiping the
multi-millionaires,and sticking it to those making $2.10 an hour + tips,
@ RanchI don't know when you were in the business, however the
current law requires the company to make up the difference. This is part of the
Fair Labor Standards Act which is enforced through the Department of Labor. I
am sorry you didn't understand your rights as an employee. I don't
know how long ago you worked or what the timeline is for making a complaint with
the Department of Labor but if you truly were underpaid you may want to seek
redress.@Airnaut and The Real MaverickOf course it is
illegal not to report all of your tips to the IRS, but it does happen. According
to a subcommittee hearing from congress back in 2004 the IRS estimated that 9
Billion dollars in tips went unreported. Another estimate from the IRS is that
on average Waiters and waitresses under report their tips by 84 percent. Is
underreporting your tips illegal YES of course it is and you will be fined and
possibly jailed for not reporting all your tips, does not reporting all of
one's tips happen of course.