"... faith in God, which is the foundation of all virtues, ..."--- Criminy; another "all values come from god" letter. You
don't need "god" in order to have values. You don't need
"faith" to be a good person.Why don't you try taking a
little "personal responsibility" for a change. God isn't the
end-all, be-all you seem to think. YOU have the power to do good. YOU have the
ability to be a "moral" person with all the good "virtues" one
would find in such a person.
Is it our faith in God that is missing, or God's faith in us...just
OK, fine, let's talk about "faith."Faith in which God?
You know there are many from which to choose, right?Why is your
faith in your deity any different than the faith of ancient Greeks in Zeus? Or
the Hindus in Shiva? Or the ancient Norse in Odin? Why am I
supposed to have faith in an invisible, omnipotent, omnipresent and omniscient
entity that capriciously answers a bride's prayers for nice weather at her
wedding, but doesn't answer the prayers of people being killed by
earthquakes or a parent's prayer that their sick child recovers from
leukemia? And why does this God of yours so constantly require
worshiping? Your God created the universe and is all-powerful, yet so insecure
about himself that he requires endless adoration, _and_ my money?You
have the right to believe whatever you want, including things for which there is
zero objective evidence and against which there are mountains of objective
evidence. It's a free country - knock yourself out.But you may
NOT expect a nation organized under the rule of law to implement public policies
in response to your personal religious beliefs. No. Not ever.
“faith in God, which is the foundation of all virtues”The most pernicious and enduring lie of the last 3000 years. It
would easy to point out why this is so – moral precursors found in animal
behavior, the countless virtuous non-believers throughout history and today, the
fact that human beings survived for millennia prior to religion being invented,
the list goes on and on and on – but the sad fact is the letter writer is
simply a product of 3000 years of deep conditioning.It’s
almost as if the inventors of religion knew that someday people would lose their
credulity and no longer buy all their stories and superstitions; and that when
that time came (it has been building steadily over the last 400 years) they
would need something else to hang their proverbial hat on.Morality… that’s the ticket!
Actually faith in God is absolutely NOT the basis of all virtues.I've
known more than a few Atheists who have better morals, virtues and ethics than
many religious people I know.Many wars are over religious so-called
“faith in God, which is the foundation of all virtues”I
could've sworn the state with the lowest crime rates was the state with the
highest percentage of atheists (New Hampshire).
The Light of Christ influences every person, whether they believe in a deity or
not. Generally we are not conscious of this influence, but perceive it as our
concience. We are also influenced by the mores of our family, socieity, etc.
How we choose to respond to this Light of Christ combined with thess mores
determines what each of us considers moral behavior. The Light of Christ is
fundamental to morality.
So far folks have summed up what my response would be nicely...
The required worship is a key element that has never made sense. "Worship
God behavior" and all it entails observed by organized religion, leads us to
so many unanswered questions. It is surprising it is not discussed more
frequently. Why does "God" need kneel down worship, songs,
stories, movies, books, TV, Radio, periodical "worship"? Why would
"He" require this? Always....worship, worship. What does this say about
such a "King"?One must admit, this is a constant reminder to the
worship commanded by "evil, cruel, violent, murderous" Kings throughout
the history of our world. Just think for a minute about those Royals! They
commanded "this worship" by each and every one of their subjects.If God is as wonderful as portrayed by modern religions, he would be a humble
individual with no need for such adulation. He would be content at seeing his
good works emulated by the world's population.
@gmlewis – “The Light of Christ influences every person, whether
they believe in a deity or not… The Light of Christ is fundamental to
morality.”Wait… so belief doesn’t matter now?Because the story I got as a kid was we have to know Christ (the person)
and believe all the sacred books and doctrines otherwise we will be miserable
for all eternity. Belief was definitely part of the equation… in fact it
was fundamental.So now I’m confused - either our eternal
happiness will be a based on our behavior (how moral we are) or it will be based
on what we believe. Which is it?If you say both then what’s
the (eternal) point of a non-believer being moral? [Which is in fact what
Christianity has been teaching for 2000 years – there is no point,
non-believers are damned.] If your “Light of Christ”
hypothesis is true then a moral agnostic/atheist (and there are and have been
lots of them) must have a place in the afterlife that doesn’t involve
I am an atheist, 44 years old, wife of 20 years, 3 wonderful children, great
job, beautiful home, vacation house, all the toys.I don't give
money to charities, but find out what they need and purchase it for them to the
tune of 15-20k each year.I have donated to my Alma Mater Washington
State, have all the friends I need, and our future is fantastic.I am
not spiraling negatively in any fashion.May I ask you for some proof
that a God...ANY God-- actually exists?
To Mike in Sandy.I am happy for you that you have achieved a
wonderful life and for your community spirit. I recognize that all your
possessions and status while wonderful are potentially temporary. Spouses,
children, position, relationships and health are not cast in concrete but can be
fleeting.In an instant my wife was killed in an accident, health can
turn on a dime. As to God, instead of letting others do the heavy lifting, why
don't you ask for yourself?
Responding to No Fit in SG: God wants us to worship Him because He knows we will
be happier if we become like Him. The only worship that makes a difference is
when we emulate His attributes. My prayers consist largely in asking His help
in becoming like Him, and thanking Him for that help.Responding to
Tyler D: My initial comment didn't talk about Salvation. I simply
explained what influences lead a person to live a moral life. A person living
in a culture that performs human sacrifice can still be moral within the context
of his culture and his receptivity to the Light of Christ. After he dies, he
will be taught the Gospel of Jesus Christ. If he accepts Christ's
atonement and thereafter aligns his life with the Perfect Pattern, he will
rejoice in Heaven with others who walked that same path.
Could this really be the DNews? A letter on religion...eleven comments and only
one on side of Christianity? Next thing I will read will surely be that
geneticists have perfected a hybrid porker that soars like a bird!
Strider,I HAVE asked. I have not received anything to hang my hat
on.Sorry to hear about your wife...Some may ask.." If there IS a
God, why does he let war happen? How come people are murdered? Why are there
horrible things that happen every day?"I choose to be be
spiritual, and find great comfort knowing that I live properly, don't break
the law, help those in need when I can, and live as treat others as I would like
to be treated.Jesus is believed to have said and done many great
things. Buddha is reported to have said:"Only in the absence of hatred
can there be peace." I agree. I'm sure Jehovah, Allah, Vishu, and all
other "Gods" have their particular draw and followers. Great.I am the happiest and most spiritually satisfied man I know.I wish you
Jerry Seinfeld to George Costanza: "Don't you believe in God?"George: "Yeah... for the BAD things."
@Grover"A letter on religion...eleven comments and only one on side of
Christianity? "Not exactly. For instance, I'm a Christian,
I just don't think we're a theocracy. That's not anti-Christian.
I will take values based on compassion and reason over someones shifting notion
of a God that never seems to disagree with them any day.
While I have faith, I find the statement pretty erroneous. "The
biggest consumer, Utah, averaged 5.47 adult content subscriptions per 1000 home
broadband users" Ya, that's pornography subscriptions where they
actually paid for access.
Let's all remember -- The terrorists who flew those planes
into the World Trade Center 9/11did so in God's name.If
only people did the GOOD things God tells us to do, ANY God, we
wouldn't be having this discussion at all.
@gmlewis:"God wants us to worship Him because He knows we will be
happier if we become like Him."Why doesn't God show up more
often, so we could see him face to face to find out more stuff about Him to make
the journey of becoming like Him easier? As I understand, He's showed
Hisself only a few times... and one of them times as this burning bush. What
good was that? And there was only one guy saw the bush. He's supposed to be
our father but isn't acting much like one. What dad doing his fatherly
duty to his children would be absent 99.9999999999% of the time?To
the Monitor:The above comment does not violate the DNews comment
rules listed so I don't understand why it was denied. If you disagree
please be more specific identifying which rule was violated. If the issue is
about dissing of God, how could that be any more objectionable than posts who
deny even the existence of God, huh?
@Neanderthal:"What dad doing his fatherly duty to his children would
be absent and unavailable 99.9999999999% of the time?"Excellent
point, Neanderthal.From all the evidence, God does not seem to be
but only marginally interested in his children here on earth. Any evidence
about Him and any plan for His children is sketchy and misleading at best. The
Bible, a book that purports to unveil God, is full of errors, misgivings, and
inconsistencies. And sometimes we're not even sure He exists at all (Dark
Ages). It would seem, if He were worried at all about how things are
progressing here on earth, He would show up in person more often, say once each
decade, and provide direction.There have been billions of his
children pass through this mortal existence and never give a though about any
God. Does He care about that? It doesn't seem so.