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In our opinion: Should the NSA have asked for permission?

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  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 26, 2013 12:22 a.m.

    We have Constitutional protections against a government that puts the "king" above the "citizens". The people are in control of all government activities. No agency within the federal government has authority to spy on us without a signed warrant based on probable cause. The government assumed that we were guilty. It used powers that it did not have to spy on us.

    A decent and law abiding people will not tolerate a government tHat runs amuck, no matter what their promises are.

    We are a free people because we restrict government, not because government restricts us.

  • marxist Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 1:20 a.m.

    Whether this incident was justified at the time is one thing, but becoming a surveillance state is extremely dangerous. Consider two examples in Latin America - Chile and Argentina. Surveillance led to kidnappings, torturing, and killings of thousands, and this was just a few years ago.

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 7:58 a.m.

    This is an interesting and informative comment. I think that the idea that our expressed thoughts and political allegiances are being questioned and punished is the overriding thought and concern of many however. All indications that a people are being put in a mental straitjacket and being manouvered into a state of abject submission to an all-powerful government is the real concern.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Aug. 26, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    At the time of the 2002 Salt Lake City Olympics, publicity about the extraordinary level of security steps being taken was reassuring to a public still badly shaken by the events of 911. Now, after eleven years without a follow-up al Qaeda attack on U.S. soil, a Deseret News editorial feels comfortable enough to be not quite so favorable on that heightened security everyone seemed to welcome back then.

    I offer my gratitude to Homeland Security for having done its job far more effectively than I realistically expected back in those dark days.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    Why does the Deseret News always use the photo of
    The National Security Agency (NSA) headquarters in Fort Meade, Md.

    instead of the actual NSA data spying center being built right here in Utah at the point of the mountain?

    BTW - The Nazis sold their lies spying of German citizens in the name of "National Security".


    Irony of the day --
    Moving the 'old' prison from the Point of the Mountain,
    building the 'new' prison at the Point of the Mountain.

  • apm22 sparks, NV
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:12 a.m.

    You cannot have it both ways. Either the 4th Amendment protects us from illegal searches and seizures or it does not. We cannot be delusional and think that in the name of "terrorism" it is ok for the government to violate our most cherished and basic civil rights enshrined in the Constitution. However, we are not surprised to hear the Deseret News bow to the NSA and tell us little sheep that it is ok that our rights have been violated in the name of the state?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Aug. 26, 2013 10:13 a.m.

    apm22,

    "Either the 4th Amendment protects us from illegal searches and seizures or it does not."
    ______________________________

    Either electronic communications operate as a public utility or they do not.

  • Zaruski SLC, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    It was extremely difficult to be a liberal in the last decade. We would not dare open our mouths in protest without first preparing to be called communist, socialist, facist, nazis, tree hugging hippies, peace loving doves, terrorist abetting, child hating abortionists, devil worshiping America hating traitors.

    The Patriot Act is an absolute outrage. Yes, congressional Democrats voted for it too because they knew full well what would happen if they didn't. See above paragraph. But being a flaming liberal who reads all the liberal media, I distinctly the remember they all uniformly denounced it as an egregious violation of our rights.

    And trust me, I would love to spike the ball and do a little dance at the end zone, but that won't turn the clock back.

    What really bothers me is that the so called "liberal media" won't flat out say that liberals were right and conservatives were wrong. Instead, they insist on still giving a platform to all the people that were abjectly wrong about the patriot act, and many other things, when they should really be taken to the back of the line so the people who were right can fix the problem.

  • apm22 sparks, NV
    Aug. 26, 2013 10:57 a.m.

    Craig Clark,

    Can I have your email/facebook/twitter/bank passwords since you believe they are a "public utility" for what it appears you believe is for the public good?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 26, 2013 11:39 a.m.

    Obama on the Jay Leno show; "We don’t have a domestic spying program." Once again we see that If Obama says it, its probably not true!

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Aug. 26, 2013 11:40 a.m.

    apm22,

    Sending personal information by electronic means is legal. But telecommunications is not a loophole to conduct criminal activity for which there is no right to privacy.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Aug. 26, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" how is it ironic?

    Obama has expanded Bush's Fascist policies and is working towards a dictatorship much the same way that Hitler did in the Germany. Hitler used drummed up crises to get support and sympathy from the public. Then, when terrible things are covered, their followers were in shock and disbelief.

    How can it be ironic when Obama and the Nazi party have so many similar tactics for obtaining power?

  • riverofsun St.George, Utah
    Aug. 26, 2013 1:48 p.m.

    For many reasons, we are grateful that our country has not experienced another "9-11" terrorist national tragedy.
    Wow! Just think, had that happened, how confused the political, voting public would be right now!

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 26, 2013 2:11 p.m.

    "Obama on the Jay Leno show; "We don’t have a domestic spying program." Once again we see that If Obama says it, its probably not true!"

    Maybe President Bush forgot to tell him that he started one.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Aug. 26, 2013 4:13 p.m.

    To "JoeBlow" and what can Bush do about the spying on American citizens now? He is no longer President, and the records are coming out that under Obama things have only become worse.

    Why blame somebody else for Obama's actions? Why not insist that Obama put an immediate stop to the domestic spying?

    You, and everybody else who continues to blame Bush for the wrong things that Obama continues do approve of should read "The Child Who Always Blames Others" at Scholastic or "The Blame Game" in Parenting. Blaming Bush for what Obama does is a problem that has not been corrected in early childhood development.

    Since Obama is in charge now, why not insist that he obey the law and stop destroying the Constitution?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Aug. 26, 2013 4:42 p.m.

    RedShirtMIT,

    "....Why not insist that Obama put an immediate stop to the domestic spying?"
    ______________________________

    If only that were feasible.

    Surveillance is a dirty word in pop culture. In the real world, it’s preventative policy that is necessitated by realities we can’t afford to pretend aren’t there, as much as we wish they weren’t. Use of surveillance is as standard in national security work as is police use of squad cars to patrol city streets to keep them safe instead of waiting until a crime occurs.

    To apm222,

    With one click of a mouse button, you can send the same unsolicited message to tens of thousands of computers all at once. To persuade me that the Internet is not a public utility that warrants more oversight rather than less is going to take some explaining.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 5:37 p.m.

    @RedShirtMIT
    Cambridge, MA

    Why blame somebody else for Obama's actions? Why not insist that Obama put an immediate stop to the domestic spying?

    You, and everybody else who continues to blame Bush for the wrong things that Obama continues do approve of should read "The Child Who Always Blames Others" at Scholastic or "The Blame Game" in Parenting. Blaming Bush for what Obama does is a problem that has not been corrected in early childhood development.

    Since Obama is in charge now, why not insist that he obey the law and stop destroying the Constitution?
    4:13 p.m. Aug. 26, 2013

    ============

    I blame Bush for what Bush did.
    I blame Obama for what Obama did.

    I am honest, and show integrity.

    The difference is --
    You Conservative blame Bush for nothing,
    and blame Obama for everything.

    Showing a complete and utter lack of all honesty and integrity.

    That's the difference.

    BTW -
    The Republicans have NO plan,
    and the only one they did have - making Obama a one term President - failed as well.

    The party of NO, is just that -- NO!

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 5:56 p.m.

    If they asked, how would we have answered?

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 26, 2013 6:23 p.m.

    "Why blame somebody else for Obama's actions? Why not insist that Obama put an immediate stop to the domestic spying?"

    Oh, you have it all wrong. I blame them all. I blame Obama as well as Bush.
    But, at least acknowledge that Obama did not invent this.

    I am no shill for Obama. I challenge you to find a post where I defend Obama. Find one.

    Same with the post you question.

    All I want is consistency. My eyes are wide open. I see the problems on both sides and I point them out to those who cant fathom that Obama is doing exactly what their guy did.

    From fox news

    For years, top officials of the Bush and Obama administrations dismissed fears about secret government data-mining by reassuring Congress that there were no secret nets trawling for Americans' phone and Internet records.

    Bush described the NSA effort only as "a program that will enable us to listen from a known al-Qaida person and/or affiliate from making a phone call outside the United States in or inside the United States out

    Looks to me like they all Lie.

  • JayTee Sandy, UT
    Aug. 26, 2013 9:47 p.m.

    Meanwhile, we don't do zip about the real dangers to the country. The guys flying those planes back in 2001 should never have been in this country, let alone learning to fly airliners. Neither our present or our immediate past administration had any apparent commitment to stopping or even slowing the invasion of this homeland--yet somehow they all managed to drum up support for fighting multi-billion-dollar wars on the other side of the planet with money we don't have. If you ask me, we're not only heading in exactly the wrong direction, but we've been just plain lucky. Anyone with the least bit of motivation could wreak havoc on our society to an extent that would astound even the most paranoid of us.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Aug. 27, 2013 8:13 a.m.

    To "Craig Clark" and how many times do those patrolling police officers stop at your house, enter in and start to search your house? All with the intention of making sure you are not a threat to anybody. It doesn't matter if it is the standard procedure, it isn't right. Why do you sit idle while the government strips away your freedom and rights?

    To "LDS Liberal" you are wrong again. Conservatives blame bush all the time for his foolishness. Why don't you blame Obama for his? Even in your rebuttal to my last post, you still give Obama a pass because in your mind Obama isn't doing anything bad because it was set in motion by Bush. I hate to break it to you, but Obama has the authority and power to shut down all of the bad decsions that Bush made, but hasn't. Obama has taken those evil Bush programs and made them more intrusive, yet you and your ilk don't care.

    If you blame Obama for things that he has done, tell us, what have you seen Obama do that is wrong?

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 27, 2013 11:51 a.m.

    We have perhaps an over eager agency at the federal government. I have to admit I'm pretty grateful for the NSA and what it does.

    All these people complaining about the NSA I have to wonder what were they in the days of the draft? Doesn't the Constitution talk about not allowing involuntary servitude?

    Telling someone they have to go off to war is much more of an imposition then the NSA knowing who you call.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    Aug. 27, 2013 3:06 p.m.

    To "cjb" since you dn't know much about the constitution, here are some thing you should be aware of:

    Article 1, Section 8 states "To raise and support Armies, but no Appropriation of Money to that Use shall be for a longer Term than two Years;
    To provide and maintain a Navy;
    To make Rules for the Government and Regulation of the land and naval Forces;
    To provide for calling forth the Militia to execute the Laws of the Union, suppress Insurrections and repel Invasions;
    To provide for organizing, arming, and disciplining, the Militia..."

    Military forces can be drafted since that is one way of organizing a military force.

    The 4th Ammendment says "The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized."

    Where are the warrants, where is the probable cause? Are you a terrorist? If not, why is it ok for the NSA to be listening in on your phone calls?