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Russia defends anti-gay law in letter to IOC

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  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Aug. 23, 2013 7:06 a.m.

    Remember when our country set the standards?

  • Christopher B Ogden, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 8:39 a.m.

    This law is a reasonable compromise.

    They have made it clear that simply having an attraction to someone of the same gender will not be punishable at all.

    It is only illegal to try and push a lifestyle choice on others or encourage others to go against the moral code established.

    Fair compromise.

    Great job Russia!

  • WRK Riverton, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    @worf, when did we become Russia. I so miss the old days, when right was right, and morals were alive in the good old USA. Now, not so much...

  • Sneaky Jimmy Bay Area, CA
    Aug. 23, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    This is very accommodating of the regime. Just like Berlin in 1936, "No jews will be persecuted during the Olympics". Is "Gay propaganda" similar to Mormon propaganda or Human Rights propaganda? Anyone that feels Russia is in anyway a reasonable or moral country needs to have their own moral compass re calibrated. It's time for a boycott.

  • Contrarius mid-state, TN
    Aug. 23, 2013 9:16 a.m.

    "The law applies equally to everyone and 'cannot be regarded as discrimination based on sexual orientation,' Kozak said."

    When a person can be arrested for simply stating "I am gay" or for wearing a rainbow T-shirt, that is clear discrimination.

    When a Duma official feels comfortable telling a police officer in the middle of a riot to "beat them up well!" and "cut their (essential parts of their anatomy) off!", that is clear discrimination.

    When a local yokel thinks it's perfectly okay to violate and beat a guy to death just because he's gay -- and then brag about it to a reporter -- that is clear discrimination.

    When a person tells you that 2 + 2 = 5, try thinking for yourself.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 10:00 a.m.

    So Russia outdoes the right wing religious conservatives in bigotry, and they cheer their comrades as setting an example.
    Good news for all you who have been looking for a gay free nation to move to, The biggest "Red State"

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 10:34 a.m.

    @Christopher B
    "It is only illegal to try and push a lifestyle choice on others or encourage others to go against the moral code established.

    Fair compromise."

    It's not fair at all, it's fascist.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    All those individual and civil rights sure get in the way, don't they? Here in utah we've inadvertently embraced a lot of the things we used to deride about the old soviet system.

  • IMAN Marlborough, MA
    Aug. 23, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    It seems as though a few of the commenters here would prefer living in Russia as opposed to the U.S.A. I invite them to try it and report back their findings.

  • Tyler Ray Taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 12:59 p.m.

    Although I don't support gay marriage, these laws reject the unalienable right to freedom of speech. If you are a conservative like me, you shouldn't support this because it goes against the constitution.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    @ Happy Valley Heretic:

    There's a certain irony here in you demonstrating so clearly who possesses the real bigotry here. It appears Russia doesn't actually have anything over you.

  • Bob K porland, OR
    Aug. 23, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    Does everyone realize that two 25 year-olds holding hands or stealing a peck on the cheek could be arrested for "promoting"?
    Does everyone realize that this forum is owned by a church whose members fought hard for religious freedom, but, in some of the letters here, want to quash the freedom of others?

    I think if I read another "The Gays are trying to take over everything and force us to do XYZ" letter, I will explode.
    There are many, many thousands of lds children born Gay. May I respectfully suggest you put your effort on finding ways to keep them in your community other than telling them they should put aside their nature in order to stay in the church?

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 1:55 p.m.

    @ Sneaky Jimmy and alt34:

    So if someone doesn't agree with your idea of what's morally acceptable, then you apparently think it's OK for you to label those people as "fascist".
    Or is anyone else doesn't specifically agree with you as to what's morally reasonable, then you automatically feel they should have their feelings "re-calibrated" to be in line with you, or else bring on the boycotts!

    Wow... now that really is ironical. I'm not quite sure who ordained any of us (mortals) to be the ultimate judge of morality concerning others. But it does appear that anything in agreement with you is moral... and anything not in agreement with you is automatically immoral.

    Aren't you part of the group who are always clamoring for others to not be so judgmental and also telling us we should be accepting of others who don't always think the way we (traditionalists) think? Or is that just a one-sided coin... something along the lines of "do as I say and not as I do"?

    Being accepting of how others think and feel needs to go both ways. Otherwise, hypocrisy becomes the issue.

  • Contrariuser mid-state, TN
    Aug. 23, 2013 2:02 p.m.

    @Tators --

    "Being accepting of how others think and feel needs to go both ways. Otherwise, hypocrisy becomes the issue."

    Why would you ever think that doing an active harm to others deserves any kind of acceptance?

    Consensual homosexual relationships harm nobody.

    Beating people up on the street does.

    It's really very simple.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    Contagion,

    Consensual homosexual relationships between two brothers also harms nobody.

    Please don't tell me you wouldn't support 2 brothers being able to marry.

    That would be hypocritical.

    And bigoted.

  • Twinkie the Kid OREM, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 3:34 p.m.

    Bob K:

    People are not born gay. Saying people are born gay is false. Do a Google search for "Identical Twin Studies Show the Only Gay Genes that Exist are Made by Versace" for some recent identical twin studies.

    Here is a snippet of some of the study and article:

    "Identical twins have the same genes or DNA. They are nurtured in equal prenatal conditions. If homosexuality is caused by genetics or prenatal conditions and one twin is gay, the co-twin should also be gay."

    "Because they have identical DNA, it ought to be 100%," Dr. Whitehead notes. But the studies reveal something else. "If an identical twin has same-sex attraction the chances the co-twin has it are only about 11% for men and 14% for women."

    "Because identical twins are always genetically identical, homosexuality cannot be genetically dictated. “No-one is born gay,” he notes. “The predominant things that create homosexuality in one identical twin and not in the other have to be post-birth factors.”

  • Contrariusiest mid-state, TN
    Aug. 23, 2013 4:06 p.m.

    @Chris B --

    "2 brothers being able to marry."

    Remember, we're talking about **risk** of harm, not **certainty** of harm.

    Back to the drunk driving comparison. One person may be able to drive drunk and get home safely -- but that doesn't mean that drunk driving should be made legal. Similarly, one specific case of adult consensual incest may not harm anyone -- but that doesn't mean that incest in general should be made legal.

    In contrast, consensual homosexual relations -- especially stable monogamous ones, as with gay marriage -- don't increase the risk of harm to anyone.

    @Twinkie --

    "People are not born gay."

    You don't seem to understand the difference between congenital and genetic, nor between genetic predisposition and genetic predetermination.

    There are many congenital conditions that are not genetic. Cerebral palsy is one well known example.

    Also, "genetic predisposition" is not at all the same thing as "genetic predetermination". For instance, women who are born with a mutated BRCA 1 gene have a high risk of breast cancer -- but not a 100% chance of it. Is their cancer genetic? Yes, absolutely. But if identical twins were born with the mutated gene, would both of them get cancer? Maybe, maybe not.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 4:52 p.m.

    @ Contrariuser:

    And what makes you think that negatively labeling and judging anyone who doesn't agree with you deserves any kind of acceptance?

    I simply stated previously that if a person advocate a certain level of conduct, they should be willing to live by it themselves. If you don't agree with discrimination, then don't participate in it yourself by using labels and harsh judgments of others who don't happen to agree with you.

    It's not really a principle that should be so difficult to understand. It just takes keeping both eyes open.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Aug. 23, 2013 4:55 p.m.

    I have a friend who is not gay, but has an identical twin brother who is.

    Like learning to speak with an accent, it's a learned behavior.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    "Because identical twins are always genetically identical"

    Too bad the whole things falls apart because the above statement is false.
    You are leaving out epigenetics the thing that can cause one twin to get say parkinson and the other not.

    So I must ask Twink when did you decide to become strait?

    To bad I can't find an actual scientific article since all the info you sight is from right wing christian propaganda sites.
    that site studies from the early 90's

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Aug. 23, 2013 5:13 p.m.

    I doubt Russia would except Anthony Weiner either. Even though his behavior is less repulsive.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Aug. 23, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    The true face of the left reveals itself,

    Historically the communist and socialists have always hated the gays,

    even the left here strongly supports the muslims, who strongly hate the gays.

    Perhaps the gays should wake up and realize they are only being used here for the extreme left to gain political power and control.

  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 1:54 a.m.

    Identical twins DO NOT have identical DNA. You do not understand genetics. However, over 50% of twins where one twin is gay, the other is also gay. Genetically, this is a huge percentage. Another example, among identical twins where one twin s left-handed, less than 50% of the other twins are NOT left-handed.
    If identical twins have 100% same DNA, as you suppose, why are there left-handed twins who have right-handed twins?

  • Stenar Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 1:57 a.m.

    "We found 52 percent of identical twin brothers of gay men also were gay, compared with 22 percent of fraternal twins, compared with 11 percent of genetically unrelated brothers," said J. Michael Bailey, an assistant professor of psychology at Northwestern University in Evanston, "which is exactly the kind of pattern you would want to see if something genetic were going on." By "unrelated," Dr. Bailey was referring to brothers by adoption.

  • postaledith Freeland, WA
    Aug. 24, 2013 2:14 a.m.

    Oh, I could say so much. But I want my comment approved. I loved what Bob K. had to say and agree with him. I was born and raised in SLC, and my whole family is Mormon. While Worf and Twinkie the Kid think they are right, I disagree with them. I am a straight ally and there is nothing that will change that. I think that comparing being gay to incest is sick. I believe it would be a real drag if we were all the same.

  • BU52 Provo, ut
    Aug. 24, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    Too bad the olympics can't be about sport. There is always some group or other that wants to make political statements using the Olympic platform....That's why my interest continues to decrease in the games.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    Christopher B says:
    "This law is a reasonable compromise.

    They have made it clear that simply having an attraction to someone of the same gender will not be punishable at all.

    It is only illegal to try and push a lifestyle choice on others or encourage others to go against the moral code established."

    -- Do you and your SO ever hold hands in public? Kiss in public? Wear a cross or star of David in public?

    "Reasonable compromise"? I guess, when you're not affected.

    @Twinkie the Kid & worf;

    Can you change your sexual orientation? Just wondering. Genetics is far more complicated than you insist.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:06 a.m.

    @Bob K
    "Does everyone realize that two 25 year-olds holding hands or stealing a peck on the cheek could be arrested for "promoting"?"

    Oh, no wonder this is agreeable to a decent number of people here, it's just like that incident downtown.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    @Tators
    "So if someone doesn't agree with your idea of what's morally acceptable, then you apparently think it's OK for you to label those people as "fascist". "

    No... there's a difference between just thinking homosexuality isn't morally acceptable and thinking that people should be arrested for it. The latter is the one that involves asserting gov't control over others to an extreme degree.

  • Contrariusiest mid-state, TN
    Aug. 24, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    @Tators --

    "And what makes you think that negatively labeling and judging anyone who doesn't agree with you deserves any kind of acceptance?"

    Nothing at all. Fortunately, I don't do anything of the kind. ;-)

    "If you don't agree with discrimination, then don't participate in it yourself by using labels and harsh judgments of others who don't happen to agree with you. "

    Recognizing harmful actions is not discrimination.

    @Twinkie --

    Since last night, I realized that the guy you referenced is actually from NARTH. Since their whole raison d'etre is to condemn homosexuality, one can hardly regard him as an objective or trustworthy scientific researcher.

    If you're really interested in the biological underpinnings of homosexuality, check out a December 2012 research paper published in the Quarterly Review of Biology, called "Homosexuality as a Consequence of Epigenetically Canalized Sexual Development".

    Those scientists -- REAL scientists -- are now thinking that homosexuality may be influenced by epigenetic variables. Sorry, it's too technical to explain well within the words I've got available. Significantly, though, the authors specifically note that "Pedigree and twin studies indicate that homosexuality has substantial heritability in both sexes".

  • Gildas LOGAN, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 7:50 a.m.

    Russia has for a long time preferred that its own people be strengthened by traditional morality and for the West to be weakened by a loss of same. No change in policy.

    It is interesting that today it is places like Nigeria and Russia that seem to understand the ennervating effect on any nation, of abandoning traditional morals, and strange indeed that Bible morality is being ditched in the "Christian" part of the world while nations that are heavily atheistic or even Islamic have accepted and are upholding Judeo-Christian morality.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 25, 2013 8:33 a.m.

    @the truth
    "The true face of the left reveals itself,"

    Except that Putin used this to boost his credentials with the orthodox religious right. Besides... have you seen the posts here? It's the conservatives tripping over themselves to agree with Russia on this while the liberals are disgusted.