Evolution is a slow process but this is still good news.
chrissy loves the limelight. doesn't jersey have more important things to
worry about? like a citizenry that leaves there as soon as possible because
their taxes are out of sight. i know i lived there.
@ute alumni --"doesn't jersey have more important things to
worry about?"What can be more important than child abuse and
civil rights? Without civil rights we don't even have a society worth
worrying about. For many years, Exodus International was the leading
organization in "conversion therapy". The problem? Over those years,
quite a few of their founders and directors admitted they were still gay, some
of them publicly apologizing for their former roles in the organization.
Recently, the group shut down altogether.Former Exodus President
Alan Chambers now states: "I am sorry for the pain and hurt many of you have
experienced. I am sorry that some of you spent years working through the shame
and guilt you felt when your attractions didn't change. I am sorry we
promoted sexual orientation change efforts and reparative theories about sexual
orientation that stigmatized parents."He further said: "For
quite some time we've been imprisoned in a worldview that's neither
honoring toward our fellow human beings, nor biblical.""Gay
conversion therapy" is a scam that victimizes some of our most vulnerable
citizens. It NEEDS to be outlawed.
Whether this therapy is a scam or not, are gay people ever forced to take this
therapy? Of course not! This is nothing more than shameless political posturing
by a RINO. A law that is useless, meaningless and a waste of time.
My dear, gay son went through the "conversion" process for almost two
years. He was told there was an 80% chance of change if he just had enough
faith. I shudder to think how blindly obedient I was. I strongly encouraged
him to continue, despite his protests. He told me the only reason he went to
therapy was because he loved me.Eight years later, I declare my
abhorrence for conversion therapy. I was wrong to insist he try to change. It is
psychological malpractice and hurts -- in some cases destroys -- young lives. I
am ecstatic that Chris Christie has taken this position. He is Roman Catholic.
I am active Mormon. I completely agree with him. People are born gay, and
homosexuality is not a sin.
@Mountanman --"Whether this therapy is a scam or not, are gay
people ever forced to take this therapy? Of course not! "Of
course they ARE. Try READING that article before you pontificate. We're
talking, in large part, about MINORS being forced into therapy.@Ophelia --I thank you again for your courage in stepping forward
and standing up for the many minors who have been damaged by this scam.
Contrarius. Did you know whether you were gay or not at 12 or 14? Neither does
So, is M-man now saying that scams are OK because people don't HAVE to
participate? Man, if others around there feel this way, there showed be a huge
influx of con men, all trying to get local kids to cut their grass, then
stiffing them on payment.
@Mountanman --"Contrarius. Did you know whether you were gay or
not at 12 or 14? Neither does anyone else."Some kids know that
they're gay before they even hit their teens. Welcome to the real world.@Mark B --"if others around there feel this way, there
showed be a huge influx of con men, all trying to get local kids to cut their
grass, then stiffing them on payment."Didn't I read
somewhere that Utah has the highest rate of con games in the nation? I'm
not sure about that, but iirc somebody around here said that. I'll see if I
can look it up later...
@ Mountanman: You are entitled to your own opinion, you are not entitled to
your own facts.Puberty on average starts between 10 and 12. During
this time you begin to experience sexual attraction. Ten and twelve year olds
know the genders of those they are attracted to. So yes, you would know at
those ages if you are homosexual.There is evidence that many
homosexual children know before age 10 that they are homosexual - just as
heterosexual children know they are heterosexual.Gay conversion
therapy is harmful. Protecting citizens from harm is a major responsibility of
government. NJ did good by outlawing this.
Science has proven that some people have been cured through this.If
they want help and their parents support them changing, this can be a great
resource.If they don't wish to change at the moment, it brings
up interesting questions.If a child didn't want to see any
doctor, what rights do they have.I'd also be curious if success
rates are better for younger or older people?Is there a better
chance of success if the patient is younger? This is often the case in the
medical world and I'm curious if this holds true here?
@ Chris B: No, actually, science does not support the idea that people have
successfully changed their sexual orientation. As a matter of fact, individuals
who have been involved in the past in promoting conversion therapy are now on
the record as saying it is not successful.While it is true that some
homosexual individuals participate fully in heterosexual relationships while
having no homosexual conduct, this happens with or without conversion therapy.
And while it is true some of these individuals have lives of
contentment, the same level of contentment can be found in any relationship
where one partner is denying an aspect of their identity - whether that aspect
is religion, career expectations, denying a part of their culture, or anything
else.Additionally, there is a proven harm associated with conversion
therapy which is why this bill was signed into law.
Maudine,There is proven harm to some.There are also
proven examples where people wanted this help, received this help, and were able
to change the parts of them they wanted to change. There are some very
uplifting and inspirational stories of people changing through reparative
therapy. It's just important we keep this resource open to
people who want it. Adults can still receive this help.I also would
still be curious the success rates of younger people vs. older people if anyone
Wow! Christie did something that is both rational and correct. Good for him!
one more reason to not vote for him. Just hope Ben Carson decides to run.
@Chris B --"Science has proven that some people have been cured
through this."State your sources. Making a claim doesn't
make it true.
"...Making a claim doesn't make it true...".Not
so...It's not a lie...if YOU believe it.
@There You Go Again --"It's not a lie...if YOU believe
it."Does Chris believe it? And if he does believe his claims,
why does he refuse to back them up?The fact is that
"therapy" successes claimed by ex-gay "researchers" (I use the
term very loosely) are often measured by ridiculous benchmarks like "no
homosexual relations within the past year". Well, gee -- we
don't say that priests are "cured" of heterosexuality if they
remain celibate for a year, do we?I'd love to see if Chris can
actually come up with anything at all to back up his bold claims. But I
won't be surprised if he doesn't.
Maybe some men are born attracted to blonde women. Maybe they aren't. Maybe
gays are born with an attraction, maybe not. I don't really know.What I do know:We didn't design ourselves. God did.We
can change, control, and master what we allow into our minds.We all make
mistakes of some kind or another.We can be forgiven for our mistakes.We can heal through the atonement and be happy again.Perhaps
we're born with attractions, but we're not born without the ability to
decide what we do with them. It would be far more accurate to say
"Attraction is not a sin". It isn't. But what we do with
attraction, both mentally and physically, those are choices. And choices are
either right or wrong and we will be judged for them. I love God and don't
want to fail Him. I want to return to Him. I want to have eternal joy. I
don't want to be found in sin. At some point we must reconcile what we want
in eternity. I want my eternal family and to be happy.I made my
choice. I'm happy I did.
@MountanmanSome of you really need to figure out that sexual orientation
is who one is attracted to. It doesn't require the person to actually be
engaging in sex. Anyone in middle school who has a crush pretty much knows what
orientation they are.
I knew my sexual orientation -- straight -- when I was still in grade school. I
didn't know what the attraction meant at the time, but I knew to which
gender it was directed. In talking with gay friends, I heard that a lot of them
had the same experience.
As far as I can tell, the only categories God cares about to describe His
children are (1) male and female, and (2) repentant and unrepentant. He
doesn't categorize His children as gay and straight. I wonder why we feel
so strongly about setting up so many categories of human beings. Why all the
borders? Individuals will be judged, not groupings.