Amnesty for business and those here illegally would just continue the law
breaking for decades and decades. Enforcement as a deterrant is the only
solution that is a solution. It would hurt the economy, cause more
unemployment, and depress wages wages for decades (Congressional budget office).
Plus it would bloat our welfare system and give business surplus labor, to put
many workers on 29 hour work weeks to avoid Obamacare. The best
thing we could do now is help our 26 million citizens find full time jobs, and
decrease our welfare rolls.
Somehow, many people still think that (a) charity is something that must be
mandated and enforced by the government, rather than voluntary, and (b) the
great American taxpayer and worker have the capacity to carry the burdens and
right the wrongs experienced by the entire third-world population of this
planet. Allowing people to gradually invade this country and then rewarding
them for doing so is a sure recipe for ongoing disaster--and we're seeing
the miserable fruits of that stance every day.
I doubt it, only about 1/4 of those granted amnesty in '86 ever bothered to
become citizens. Why go through the bother to obtain citizenship when they know
BO won't send them home anyway?
@JayTeeYou have to meet the people who came here and why they came
here before you judge them as being invaders. Most of them are running away
from a bad situation. Mexico has corruption and violent gang problems which
basically control their cities and businesses. They see little hope for their
kids in these cesspols and see better oppurtunity here except the only way to
come here is without documents! If these people had a way to get here legally
they would but our immigration system has never been fixed to correct the
problems. Now I don't like people breaking our laws either but
in this situation there illegality was based on problems that would likely cause
you or anyone else in their situation to break the law and come here illegally
if you cared about your family.The Utah compact is a good start and
its goal is to intigrate those who want to stay and help provide the necessary
documents to eventaully help those who have come here illegally and want to go
back the proper understanding of how good government provides security so
eventually they can solve the problem back home and stay there.
"the hammer" Please don't tell me its impossible to emigrate to
America. 400 people took the oath of citizenship approx. 4 wks ago in the state
capital.The nice thing about having an ORDERLY immigration process
is so we can keep track of everyone arriving. They are REQUIRED to learn
English, have a sponsor, not burden the social services system, etc.Whats
wrong with that? (other than the fact that lawbreakers don't like it?)BTW - IF they are arrested for any reason, they lose their immigration
possibilities forever. Every other illegal trespasser just gets sent back to
the border so they can try the same thing all over again.Illegal/unethical employers are behind the "Utah Compact".
THEY'RE ONLY concerned with cheap labor. Nothing more. All of the
employers who engage illegal trespassers know they are breaking the law. Should
we just ignore that?If you had a construction business and wanted to obey
the law (only hire LEGAL citizens)how would you like to have to compete with
another business that only pays one-third the wages by employing illegal
One more point. I'll try to be brief.Last week Congressional
House members were sent home with "talking points" propaganda kits to
try to engage their citizens over the vacation they are on regarding the House
amnesty bill. Advocates for illegal trespassers are putting on a "full
court press" to try to pass ANY bill so that the Senate bill AND the House
bill will wind up in a goofy process they call "reconcilliation".All this means is that IF the House passes ANY immigration bill, we will
be stuck with the senate bill from a joint committee.RINO'S and
democrats will see to that.If you haven't already contacted
your legislators, either Matheson, Chaffetz, or Bishop you need to do that. If
ANY House bill gets passed we will be stuck with the bills for illegal
trespassers for decades!
"Why go through the bother to obtain citizenship when they know BO
won't send them home anyway?"Especially since the precedent
was set by Reagan, and Bush and Clinton and Bush 1 and Carter and every other
president prior to Obama (R and D).In the words of ClintonIt takes some brass to attack a guy for doing what you did
Excellent letter. Couldn't agree more.
Talking points against comprehensive reform have become empty rhetoric. “Comprehensive reform weakens the economy”. Not true. The
CBO report shows the Senate bill raises revenue by taxing unauthorized
immigrants and charging fines to get in line on a path to legalization/earned
citizenship. “Comprehensive reform will flood the country will
illegals”. Also untrue. The Senate bill decreases undocumented immigration
by increasing border security, guest worker visas, and workplace enforcement.
“Comprehensive reform is amnesty”. Again, untrue. The
road to citizenship established in the Senate bill is tough. Immigrants would
have to pay a fine and demonstrate English proficiency, history of employment,
and economic solvency. They'd have to get in line behind others and would
be penalized for it. The process would take them years. It's an earned path
to citizenship, not amnesty. Comprehensive reform is not charity.
It’s sound economic and social policy. Leading conservatives (including
Karl Rove, Paul Ryan, and others) agree. The House should propose,
debate, and pass their own comprehensive bill, rather than flounder in empty
rhetoric. It’s good for the country. It’s good for the GOP.
It’s good for families.
Joeblow,if johnny jumps off the cliff, it justifies you doing it?Bryant,for them to be taxed, they have to register, which they
won't do because they WILL be taxed. there are no consequences for being
here illegally, why LOSE money by registering, paying taxes and fines, etc? It
makes no sense.
@ fitness freak Do you know who those people are and their background?
Half of them are refugees most likely. The other half likely are wealthy
individuals who had the money to immigrate and only a small amount are those
eligible through the lottery. Our immigration process is long and arduous, and
in my work I meet these people and ask them about it. They complain of the long
wait and difficult process.Our current immigration process is not orderly,
and we have no way to track down or keep out those who overstay visas. We need
biometrics and E-verify. Also what do you do with the dream act kids? Have you
met them? Do you know them? It’s not as simple as just enforcing current
law. You can’t just stop people randomly on the street and ask them to
show their citizenship. You have to address each issue.
It is interesting the amount of paranoia expressed in the majority of these
comments above. The letter writer isn’t suggesting a blanket amnesty but
all the straw man developers are claiming that very thing. The letter writer is
simply suggesting that the vast majority of those who are here illegally are
doing everything else in their lives to live within the law, to be good, hard
working citizens and their addition to our legal population just might enhance
all of our lives. Thier commitment to family and hard work and their
contribution to our tax base can only be a good thing. And if they obtain
citizenship through a comprehensive process like the one being proposed, they
will cherish that citizenship, most likely more than most who were born here.And another note to lost in DC, for your apparently uninformed interest,
border security has continued to increase under President Obama every year he
has been in office. The statistics are there, if only you will do your part to
read them. Deportations are up, crime is down in the southern border states,
because the president is committed to making it so.
@fitness freakThe senate bill is not perfect but Republicans had
their chance to fix this in 2005 and they failed to do so based on the same
arguments you make. Every year the conservative position gets worse in our
ability to negotiate our ideas with this problem and if we don't fix it,
Hispanics who dislike the republican party will "birth" us conservatives
into a minority! The demographics are there the kids have already been born and
the future is almost certain that if we persist as the antagonist, the Anchor
Children will eventually vote and they will vote against those who were so
antagonistic to their parents. Our current laws are broke and that
is why this is even an issue. Amensty exists already and the current laws lack
the ability to enforce them whether aprobation by democrats/republican leaders
or through constitutional restraints on search and seizure. As a conservative I
will stand up and demand my congressman vote for this bill.
"if johnny jumps off the cliff, it justifies you doing it?"Nope, But is certainly is hypocritical to tell everyone how ignorant johnny
is when in reality, you both jumped.Wouldn't your statement
have been much more honest if it read"Why go through the bother
to obtain citizenship when they know that none of our elected officials would
send them home anyway?"But then, honesty was not your goal.
I am trying to figure out how changing the laws and doing everything they
propose will even work.The problem isn't that we don't
have enough visa slots open in a given year.The problem is that the
paperwork and hassle the government gives to any employer looking to hire an
immigrant. The government then has a very slow and bad process for the person
seeking the visa to go through.What do any of the current proposals
do to make the process easier for employers and people seeking employment?If the proposals go through, are we going to have a streamlined system
for visa applications? Are they going to hire more government workers to handle
the increase in applications?The government IS the problem, and are
using this issue for purposes other than helping immigrants.
@ SLarsYou comment that "It would hurt the economy, cause more
unemployment, and depress wages wages for decades (Congressional budget
office)" is patently and perniciously untrue.Here is the
truth:"CBO estimates that fixing our broken immigration system
will reduce federal deficits by about $200 billion over the next 10 years, and
about $700 billion in the second decade. "You really should be
ashamed of yourself for the incorrect information given that will affect
Sorry to say but the article's author is not thinking very clearly.If families are broken up it has nothing to do with our immigration
laws. If someone is here illegally and has a family here, take them with you as
you leave.All illegals have to do if they want to become citizens is
follow our immigration laws... that is, fill out the necessary papers, go home,
and get in line. There are millions who are doing it the right way now.If the US doesn't enforce immigration laws currently on the books
and continues to offer amnesty or a pathway to citizenship for illegals, we will
be flooded with more and more of the same. There are millions of people around
the globe who would like to come to America and if we make it too easy they will
flood in. In fact, we are being flooded now. We can't ease or circumvent
our immigration laws or we'll start looking like a third world nation.
Furthermore, illegals come for jobs. We already have millions of unemployed
Americans, which means we have no jobs for foreigners.
@bryant77:"The CBO report shows the Senate bill raises revenue by
taxing unauthorized immigrants..." They are required to pay
taxes now. How would a new law fix that?"The Senate bill
decreases undocumented immigration by increasing border security, guest worker
visas, and workplace enforcement."We already have laws for
increased border security and workplace enforcement. How would a new law fix
that?"Immigrants would have to pay a fine and demonstrate
English proficiency, history of employment, and economic solvency."And if they don't, are you going to deport them? I don't think
so..."The process would take them years."The
process would be circumvented by Democrats once the so-called
'Comprehensive' bill became law. They will drop the 'years'
to 'months.' They need the votes."It's an earned
path to citizenship, not amnesty."Amnesty is where you get to
stay... the details of how are irrelevant."The House should
propose, debate, and pass their own comprehensive bill, rather than flounder in
empty rhetoric."The House should say... 'we already have
adequate immigration laws. And for all illegals obey or get out.'
For the record -- Most Mormons don't live in Utah,don't live in the United States,and speak Spanish...Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the border [Lamanites], as
Dragline, bryant77The Congressional budget office claims that in 10
years they will contribute 197 billion to our economy. The facts show that the
only way this is possible, is if the social security trust fund was raided to
pay for all of the new programs. If the money was taken from the general fund,
it will be a 14.7 billion dollar loss. The CBO numbers do not include costs for
welfare, or local costs (state and local). The depressed wages and high
unemployment are in the CBO also. People come here illegally for
jobs, allowing them to stay, keep their jobs, and apply for citizenship is
amnesty. There is no enforcement in the Senate bill, just loopholes
to avoid it like the 1986 amnesty. The Border patrol, and the
Citizenship and Immigration Services Council say that amnesty is wrong and do
not support it. Also the the Citizenship and Immigration Services Councilsays that they can't handle this volume of people. The Black leadership
group protested the Senate bill and claims there will be 'disastrous
effects to the black community'
Most of the reason the minimum wage has remained so low for so long is due to
the continual influx of illegal immigrants.I always thought the
democrats were supposed to be in favor of helping working Americans get
ahead.When did they change?How many new immigration laws
will we have to write before we find one the illegal aliens like?
@Samuel the Liberalite:"Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the
border [Lamanites], as prophesied."They're not Lamanites.
Their DNA says they're Asian. Probably got here over the Rusasia-Alaska
land-bridge.Lamanites are/were located in and around the Hill
The government report says that all of Americans except the 1% will feel the
influx of 33 million people in ten years, rising to 46 million in 20 years.
Lower wages, higher unemployment, and a reduced standard of living. The only
people who will benefit are the business owners and those here illegally. Right now, under current laws, a person cannot come here legally if they
commit a felony. Yet those here illegally have committed multiple felonies (id
theft, social security fraud, perjury). Add in business who commits a felony
each time they hire someone here illegally, and those who encourage them to
come, who break the laws also. A changed country with more low
paying jobs, 29 hour work weeks, years of higher unemployment, a lower standard
of living, just so we can give amnesty to millions who have broken our laws for
decades. The business community has no respect for our country. They should not
be given amnesty either.
Readers,Here are the conclusions of the Congressional Budget Office
on the immigration bill: Read them and make your decision. They highlight over and again the economic benefits of comprehensive
reform. If there's something the GOP House doesn't like about the
Senate bill, they can change it. They can--and should--write their own version.
But they aren't even willing to do that. They're stalled, because
they're afraid of (ultra right) Republican constituents who adhere more to
empty rhetoric than non-partisan facts...But I think we're
better than that. We're smart and we're flexible. We understand good
policy when we see it. We care about families and our economy. Pass
@Samuel the Liberalite:"Most Mormons are Hispanic, living South of the
border [Lamanites], as prophesied."Not according to the DNA.
Most if not all have Asian DNA. The Lamanites are/were located in the area of
the Hill Cumorah in New York.. according the DNA testing.
Personally I'm totally FOR immigration and citizenship. But I'm
totally against people sneaking across our border. I'm also not for
rewarding people for sneaking across our border.I'm OK with
travel visas and work visas. At least we know who's here, when they came,
and when their visa expires, and if they left.
Since 1965, our immigration policies have engendered one of the greatest mass
migrations of people in the shortest period of time in human history. The U.S.
adds one international migrant (net) every 44 seconds.The
nation's immigrant population (legal and illegal) reached a record-setting
40 million in 2010. If the foreign-born population were a nation, it would be
the 33rd largest in the world, just behind Argentina and ahead of Poland.Ninety years ago when the ratio of the foreign born to the native
population was about the same as it is today, i.e., one out of 8, the country
reached a consensus that immigration had to be reduced. (250,000-300,000 per
year)The Immigration Act of 1965 and subsequent legislation raised the levels up
to 1.2 million a year, more than the rest of the world combined in terms of
legal immigration. Immigration is now primarily from the developing world as
opposed to Europe and legal immigrants are predominantly minorities as defined
by the U.S. government, which entitles them to special benefits like affirmative
action and minority business set asides. This reinforces and incentivizes group
identification rather than assimilation.
The U.S. government is systematically violating the rights of American workers
by importing millions of foreign workers without any correlation to the
nation's job needs. This results in job loss and wage depression for
American citizens. The government compounds the problem by not securing our
borders and not enforcing our existing laws. If we give any type of
amnesty, and those here illegally receive the same wages as American citizens,
it's going to put most of them out of work. They have a job because of
cheap labor. Business will slowly revert back to new arrivals here illegally.
The Congressional Budget Office said the Senate bill will stop only 25%.
That's if the border, everify and local enforcement are enacted. The same
laws have been ignored since 1986. The House cannot pass any
immigration bill, or the country destroying Senate bill will end in committe
with the house bill. Then we leave high unemployment, and reduced wages to our
"those here illegally are doing everything else in their lives to live
within the law, to be good, hard working citizens"Every day they
are here, they break our laws. They are here illegally through border crossing
or visa overstays. They are committing multiple felonies every day with id
theft, social security fraud, and perjury (i-9 form). This pattern of law
breaking should stop them from applying for citizenship under our laws. All the sunshine and lolipops won't take away their crimes. They
need to be paid for, like anyone else who breaks the laws. If our government
prosecuted them on ID theft, they would be gone in a month. Let's stop
trying to tell the public that there is no pattern of crime.