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Letters: Obama and Trayvon

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  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 6:29 a.m.

    The killing of an unarmed young man by an armed, self-appointed vigilante was certainly a tragedy. What I also find tragic was the unrelenting, non-stop media coverage of the event and the ensuing trial (especially by CNN and MSNBC). It was as though no other news was important enough to override the broadcast of the trial. One can debate whether the media coverage was the cause or the result of the case being thrust into the American consciousness, but whatever racial overtones may have been inherent in the case were grossly overplayed by the media, IMHO.

  • Rand Ogden, UT
    July 25, 2013 6:37 a.m.

    I have to chuckle at this letter. Such grand nobility, calling for unity and an end to "vitriol", "rhetoric", and the "divided states of America". And embedded within is this little gem: "What a racist comment, by the president of the United States no less." Hypocrisy Mr. Grossman. I don't believe you want unity. I don't believe you want an end to vitriol. I believe you wanted to get a dig in at a president you don't like, regardless of the topic. Glad to see the Deseret News obliged.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 25, 2013 6:44 a.m.

    The uniqueness of this trial was not the murder of a teenager nor the killing of a black American by a white American but the stand your ground law that allowed a person to target, follow, and provoke another, then when retaliated against shoot and kill an un-armed person and have it all perfectly legal. To miss that point is the very essence of the problem with the American gun culture.

  • Mark B Eureka, CA
    July 25, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    How can anyone accuse the President of making racist comments, THEN ask that everyone be more united? And,no, I don't agree that anyone was "forced" to watch the Zimmerman trial, or that HAVING to watch was a "tragedy".

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 25, 2013 8:15 a.m.

    35 years ago Obama was living with his white mother in Hawaii attending the best schools in a privileged lifestyle. He has nothing in common with Trayvon Martin.

  • SEY Sandy, UT
    July 25, 2013 8:26 a.m.

    The president made a monumental mistake when he injected himself into this controversy. When was the last time a president commented on a case before or after a verdict, thereby fueling a disproportionate interest in a very localized situation. Why was he so willing to come down on the side of one person's innocence and another's guilt without knowing the facts or the verdict? The author of this letter is correct.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    July 25, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    I, too, agree we need to move on. But we don't. It seems we also need, every summer, a celebrity type show trial to keep tongues wagging. We need an attractive white girl to disappear somewhere, ideally with at least two occurrences of the letter E in her name. This year we get a bonus to fawn over, a royal baby. So, next time there's an interracial shooting, or kylee disappears in mexico, remember it's not that there isn't thousands of tragedies of a similar nature that occur, it's just that we only care about a very select few.

  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    July 25, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    I would like to know how many commentors to this petty letter have any experience being a minority in America.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 25, 2013 9:00 a.m.

    I'm not a minority (except for my political opinion in this State) nor do I pretend to understand what it is like to be one.

    I for one appreciated the President's remarks. They were tempered, appropriate and correct. He was not victimizing himself, nor minorities. He did say that there are a disproportionate amount of blacks arrested, but also that there is a disproportionate amount of crime committed by blacks. He commented that blacks are more likely to hurt blacks, just as whites are more likely to hurt whites, we tend to hurt our peers.

    He also commented that the Defendant was given a fair trial, the jury was properly instructed and came back with their verdict, and in America, that is the final word. he didn't incite protest, or a pitch fork mob.

    He didn't try to start a national conversation on racism, rather the opposite because sadly, it would be counter productive.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    July 25, 2013 9:17 a.m.

    Anytime an unarmed young person is killed it is a tragedy.

    This case became hypercharged in the beginning (yes, by the media) because immediately following Trayvon's death, Zimmerman was given his gun back and sent home after 5 hrs of questioning. I as a parent would never accept that and neither would most parents.

    I recall a case in UT involving armed "Neighborhood Watchmen," that turned out very different.

    The overriding problem is people, because they are armed, "forget" they are only suppose to watch from the safety of their cars or homes.

  • tenx Santa Clara, UT
    July 25, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    When a case such as this, with Hispanic and Black content, is questioned by Geraldo Rivera for even going to trial you know it has no merit and should not have gone to trial. Now the racists among us are trying to make a federal hate crime out of it.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    July 25, 2013 9:28 a.m.

    Just ask yourself if the races of these two people had been reversed. Would a black man who killed a non-black teenager be out on the street now? If you believe that, your brain is lost somewhere in Fantasyland.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    July 25, 2013 9:39 a.m.

    @ Irony Guy. According to the FBI young black men commit 10 times more homicides than all other races combined, so apparently there is another fantasyland that the race hustlers of America are living in.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    July 25, 2013 9:45 a.m.

    Some court cases become national news. That's always been the case--remember Lizzie Borden?--and will continue to be. In this case, an unarmed child was killed by an armed adult, without suffering legal consequences. It's not surprising that it became a media event.
    The President was raised by a single mom for much of his childhood, and by his grandparents. Of course he relates to Trayvon. I found his comments very moving and quite appropriate, especially as he honored the dignity and restraint shown by Trayvon's family.
    What I don't understand is the willingness of some people to turn George Zimmerman into some kind of hero, or to cast Trayvon in the role of thug and villain. That's the dialogue that's entirely unhelpful.

  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    July 25, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    If you look at the jells across the world it could color the the topic.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    July 25, 2013 10:11 a.m.

    Since on the DN monitor ignored my post from more than three hours ago I'll try a different approach.

    Mountanman claims the president lived a life of privilage and has nothing in common with Trayvon Martin. Of course this is nonsense. The president's family lived a middle class lifestyle at best and just because he attended prestigious colleges doesn't mean he didn't have to sacrifice to do so. Studying hard to obtain great grades that lead to scholarships is hard work and the president and his wife had significant student loans.

    The president and Travon Martin had this in common - they were both black boys in a white community. That is what made George Zimmerman suspicious and it is the excuse some have used to claim he was responsible for his own death. The president's speech simply asked us all to put ourselves in another man's (boy's) shoes before we judge them. Until you have experienced another person's life, based on their circumstances, you just can't, and shouldn't judge.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 25, 2013 10:33 a.m.

    "....I think it was a tragedy for America. But not in the way our president does. I view it as a tragedy that all of America had to endure a trial that had nothing to do with the entire country...."
    ______________________________

    Your dismay is better directed at the press than at the President. They are the culprits who gave this story in-your-face saturation coverage on television and the Internet. The not so innocent press doesn't merely report events as they would have us believe. They literally invent the news each time they decide which stories get reported and at what decibel level.

    As for the President, he is criticized for speaking out, for not speaking out sooner, for what he said, and for what or didn't say. It makes me glad I'm not President. I don't need those kind of headaches.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    July 25, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    age 6, Catholic school in Indonesia.
    age 8, public school in Indonesia
    age 10, moving to Honolulu to live with his Mom's parents. His grandmother was a Vice President for the Bank of Hawaii and was able to afford to send him to the prestigious private college preparatory Punahou Academy, still considered the finest school in Hawaii.
    He attended there from 5th grade, and graduated from high school there in 1979.
    then attended Occidental College
    transferred to Columbia University
    From 1988 to 1991 Obama attended Harvard Law School

    Hardly middle class.

    Common trait with Trayvon 35 years prior, doing illegal drugs. It is in his book.

  • Makid Kearns, UT
    July 25, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    Here is the problem with the case. Had Trayvon a gun in his possession and used it on Zimmerman, he would have been following the basis of the "Stand your ground" laws.

    He was being followed, profiled and chased. He most likely feared for his life (Based on his supposed attack on Zimmerman.

    Shouldn't the "Stand your ground" law also affect non gun carrying people as equally?

    Chasing someone means you are provoking the situation and any outcome is your fault.

    Think about it. If you are following someone relentlessly, even looking for them if you lose them. Then you are attacked because someone fears for their life. You shoot the person attacking you to defend their life and claim self defense and them as the provoker of the attack?

    Whenever anyone feels they are backed into a corner, they will strike out. That is what happened here. Trayvon was backed into a corner by a pursuer, he struck out at his pursuer, his pursuer is able to claim self defense?

    That is what most people have a problem with. Zimmerman controlled all the cards as he could have stopped at any point.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    July 25, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    Yes, The previous black American President said it all. Right?
    President Obama should keep his thoughts to himself.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    @no fit in SG
    "President Obama should keep his thoughts to himself."

    Yeah, how dare a black guy talk about his personal experiences as a black man... seriously, do you even realize what you come across as?

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:34 a.m.

    @pragmatistferlife "The uniqueness of this trial was...the stand your ground law...."

    Stand Your Ground was never invoked in this trial. Zimmerman's claim was straightforward self-defense. According to him, he was pinned to the earth with no opportunity for retreat. In that situation, Stand Your Ground doesn't come into play.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    @Makid

    You think it was justified for Trayvon to attack someone who was merely keeping an eye on him? Really?

    And what evidence do you have that he was "backed into a corner?" There was no such evidence presented in court.

  • Darrel Eagle Mountain, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    When a case such as this, with Hispanic and Black content, is questioned by Geraldo Rivera for even going to trial you know it has no merit and should not have gone to trial. Now the racists among us are trying to make a federal hate crime out of it.

    =============================

    Full disclosure, I think Zimmerman probably should have been found guilty of at least manslaughter.

    That being said, I think it would be a very travesty of justice if the Federal Government charges him with civil rights violations. That would smack of double jeopardy. The government had their chance to present their case, and was found to be wanting. That should be that.

    Most people I have talked to that agree he should not have gotten off agree that he should be facing further prosecution,

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 25, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    BO and his cabal don’t care about all the black on black murders that occurred because they cannot politicize them. Sad.

    Georgeofthejungle,
    “jells”? Is that what happens when you mix up Jello, then put it in the fridge, it jells?

    No fit in St. George, atl134,
    Playing the race card, again? So old. Evidence of a weak argument when that is all you can resort to.

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    July 25, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    atl134.....
    Thought you might see the sarcasm.
    Guess you missed that?
    I am in agreement with you!

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    July 25, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    @pragmatistferlife:
    "The uniqueness of this trial was not the murder of a teenager nor the killing of a black American by a white American but the stand your ground law..."

    You got that right. If there were no stand your ground law, Martin would have been obliged to beat it home rather than stand his ground and beat Zim's face to a pulp.

    @SEY:
    "The president made a monumental mistake when he injected himself into this controversy."

    Which makes him look alot like a racist. 'If I had a son he would look alot like Trayvon' and 'that could have been me 35 years ago.'

    @Darrel:
    "He did say that there are a disproportionate amount of blacks arrested, but also that there is a disproportionate amount of crime committed by blacks."

    But did he say why? No, So I guess I'll have to opine... The reason is the breakdown and failure of the Black family. Seventy three percent of black babies are born out of wedlock. There's the problem in a nutshell. How can black kids learn to be good, law-abiding citizens with absent fathers to provide discipline?

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    July 25, 2013 12:18 p.m.

    A finding of "not guilty" does not mean that a defendant did not do the crime. It only means that the state is unable to prove the defendant's guilt "beyond a reasonable doubt". The question for the nation -- and it is a national issue not just a Florida matter -- is whether or not we need to change our laws to make Zimmerman like interventions less likely and less deadly. The Zimmerman jury complied with the law in their findings, but did they really do justice? An act may be circumstantially lawful but also unjust. Slavery was once legal, but it was never just.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    July 25, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    To "Edgar" he didn't just attend the expensive universities, he also went to a PRIVATE highschool. If you bothered to look, you would see that he went to Punahou School in Hawaii. According to its website it is a private, co-educational, college preparatory school. How many middleclass kids do you know that can afford a private school?

    To "Curmudgeon" how about a thug kid with a racist chip on his sholder attacking a neighborhood watch member, that is what this case ended up showing. Trayvon was a thug, and just picked the wrong guy to attack.

    To "Makid" Trayvon didn't fear for his life. People that fear for thier lives typically don't throw the first punch.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    July 25, 2013 12:33 p.m.

    @Truthseeker:
    "The overriding problem is people, because they are armed, 'forget' they are only suppose to watch from the safety of their cars..."

    Let's say 10 people was observed by Zim that night, heading home... Was Zim supposed to stay in his vehicle and report them all to the police? The police would stop coming after about the third call.

    @Irony Guy:
    "... ask yourself if the races of these two people had been reversed. Would a black man who killed a non-black teenager be out on the street now?"

    Ask yourself, if the jury were all black would Zim be on the streets now?

    @Makid:
    "Here is the problem... Had Trayvon a gun in his possession and used it on Zimmerman, he would have been following the basis of the 'Stand your ground' laws."

    Martin followed the rules with his fists. You don't need a gun for 'stand your ground.'

    "He was being followed, profiled and chased."

    He was being observed and reported to the police.

    "Zimmerman controlled all the cards as he could have stopped at any point."

    Martin controlled his cards to run home and inform his dad.

  • Rand Ogden, UT
    July 25, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    WRZ,
    "But did he say why? No, So I guess I'll have to opine..."

    Wait! Don't do that! Opining without facts, you might end up writing something that "makes you look a lot like a racist"... Oops. Too late, you went ahead an opined anyway. Good news, though. Now you can explain how your statement about the "Black family" wasn't racist while the President's very reasoned statements on first-hand experiences are.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    July 25, 2013 12:41 p.m.

    re:Jsf

    Yes, Obama was honest enough to admit he used drugs. Unlike other presidential candidates he remembers and admits the things he did wrong growing up.

    Obama was fortunate to have a grandmother and mother that put his education at the top of their priority list. No doubt these two women had a huge impact on his life. His grandmother, a high school grad, started at the bank as a secretary and worked her way up the ladder. Still, that did not shield Obama from being a minority wherever he lived. He was teased relentlessly while living in Indonesia. When he returned from Indonesia he lived with him grandparents in a two bedroom apt. and attended the private school paid for, in part, by a scholarship.

    I think because Obama had a unique ethniciy, upbringing, and post-graduate experiences he's seen both sides of the race issue. It must be extremely disappointing to him that he hasn't been able to be the bridge to the divide.

    I think the most surprising thing to me is the comments by conservatives--including unabashed birthers--on DN.

  • 2in1year Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 25, 2013 12:44 p.m.

    Well said, Israel.

  • Rand Ogden, UT
    July 25, 2013 12:46 p.m.

    lost in DC,
    Given the comments you are complaining about, your definition of playing the race card is set rather low. But you willingly played the Over-reactive Conservative Victim card. Not sure which I am more tired of.

    Redshirt,
    "a thug kid with a racist chip on his sholder attacking a neighborhood watch member, that is what this case ended up showing"

    Nope. Wrong. The trial showed that there wasn't proof beyond reasonable doubt that Zimmerman was guilty of murder and manslaughter. It did NOT show beyond a reasonable doubt that Martin attacked Zimmerman or was a racist thug. It's an important distinction to make. The burden of proof is always on the prosecution to prove guilt rather than the defense to prove innocence.

  • Mr. Bean Pheonix, AZ
    July 25, 2013 1:02 p.m.

    @atl134:
    "Yeah, how dare a black guy talk about his personal experiences as a black man..."

    If you want to fan racist fires, then you need to talk about race, pointing out the disparities... but, of course, don't mention the causes of the disparities. And no, it ain't about slavery. It's because of broken black families... seventy three percent of black babies are born out of wedlock... no fathers to discipline their kids and teach then acceptable behavior and respect for themselves, others, and the law.

    @Mike in Cedar City:
    "A finding of 'not guilty' does not mean that a defendant did not do the crime."

    Oh, but it does. Before a trial, a defendant is 'innocent until proven guilty.' If the defendant is found to not be guilty by a jury, 'innocent' remains intact.

    "The question for the nation... is whether or not we need to change our laws to make Zimmerman like interventions less likely and less deadly."

    It's not an issue for the law. It's an issue for the families... and most black families are broken, so nothing is ever taught... except maybe in street gangs.

  • wrz Pheonix, AZ
    July 25, 2013 1:12 p.m.

    W@Rand
    "Wait! Don't do that! Opining without facts, you might end up writing something that 'makes you look a lot like a racist.'"

    The prez talked about issues and problems of his race... I talked about the underlying cause of those issues and problems and how he and his fellow blacks could solve them. That ain't racism on my part.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    July 25, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    re:wrz

    "Let's say 10 people was observed by Zim that night, heading home... Was Zim supposed to stay in his vehicle and report them all to the police?"

    Yes.
    Donald O'Brien, president of the Retreat at Twin Lakes homeowner's association said,
    "Since day one with the neighborhood watch, they said at that meeting and every meeting we had after that, 'Do not get close to anyone, stay at a safe distance, call 911 and let the police handle it."

    Wendy Dorival the volunteer coordinator with the Sanford Police for Neighborhood Watch program Zimmerman attended, said volunteers shouldn't follow suspicious people. She emphasized that citizens shouldn't engage anyone suspicious, but rather, contact police.

    A resident at The Retreat at Twin Lakes, where Martin was fatally shot, said the homeowner’s association there permanently suspended their neighborhood watch program immediately after the shooting in February 2012. The neighborhood now has a community enforcement agreement with the Sanford Police Department.

  • RedShirtMIT Cambridge, MA
    July 25, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    To "Rand" go back and read "Curmudgeon's" original comment. Why go after me, why do you let the lies from people on the left go unchecked?

    Why go after the racial motives that the press has lied to us about? How do you know that what I wrote is not true? Based on the evidence and investigations that have gone on, Zimmerman was shown to not be a racist. The FBI investigated Zimmerman and found nothing. However Zimmerman's defense team was able to get all sorts of racist text messages from Trayvon's phone. Since Trayvon was shown to be a racist and had a history of fighting and was known to use drugs, do you really think that it was that difficult to prove the Zimmerman was defending himself?

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 25, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    "....Martin controlled his cards to run home and inform his dad."
    ______________________________

    That might have defused the situation and been the prudent course to take against someone who believes he has a legal right to be a bully. At least Trayvon would have lived through that night - maybe.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 25, 2013 1:42 p.m.

    The mere fact that the right wing is still talking about obama's birth certificate well into his 2nd term tells me that they haven't learned anything from the past 2 embarrassing presidential elections. So maybe after they lose in 2016 they'll finally get a clue? Maybe?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 1:53 p.m.

    @no fit in SG
    "Thought you might see the sarcasm.
    Guess you missed that?"

    Completely missed that one.

    @lost in DC
    "BO and his cabal don’t care about all the black on black murders that occurred because they cannot politicize them."

    Michelle Obama went to the funeral of Hadiya Pendleton who was murdered in Chicago in one of those instances of violence you say is never noticed by Obama or the media (that one, and urban violence in general, is repeatedly mentioned by liberal hosts like Melissa Harris-Perry).

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:19 p.m.

    Rand,
    your threshold for the race card must be pretty high. Do you have to go to Mars to reach it, or just the moon?

    Maverick
    YOU are the only one talking about BO's birth certificate. Is 43% a majority yet?

  • Liberal Today Murray, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:20 p.m.

    African-Americans are incapable of being racists, because to be a racist you have power and money.

    The whites have all the power and money in the USA, and around the world, so they are the ones that are racists, keeping it all for themselves.

    Martin is guilty of a racist killing because he is white and he killed a black man. It is that simple. The president just wanted to help people understand this.

    For those who have been injured in demonstrations because they are white, it is because Blacks are angry, not because they are racists. It is the whites fault for being so mean.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 25, 2013 3:36 p.m.

    Sorry Nate you are wrong. Zimmerman didn't invoke stand your ground in his pre trial but the instructions from the judge to the jury contained this"If George Zimmerman was not engaged in an unlawful activity and was attacked in any place where he had a right to be, he had no duty to retreat and had the right to stand his ground and meet force with force, including deadly force if he reasonably believed that it was necessary to do so to prevent death or great bodily harm to himself or another or to prevent the commission of a forcible felony."

    Even if the defense didn't argue it the judge did and gave the jury instructions to consider stand your ground.

  • Edgar Samaria, ID
    July 25, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    jsf and RedshirtMIT - You guys don't get it. It doesn't matter that he went to prestigious schools or what is income level is - he's a black man in America. And that makes a difference in how many or most people approach him or consider him when they're in certain situations. You can deny it all you want but if you are really honest with yourself you will admit that it makes a difference and you never just say "Hey, there's a guy over there." You say, "Hey, there's a black guy over there." Ask yourself this question - When you're telling a story and one of the characters is black, do you leave that detail out of the story? Just be honest with yourself.

  • patriot vet Cedar City, UT
    July 25, 2013 3:56 p.m.

    I was born in Mississippi and lived most of my young-adulthood (1960's) in the East Texas-Louisiana area. I'm not a minority, but have witnessed the brutal laws and treatment of the black people. They lived for over 100 years as sub-citizens and treated like animals.

    President Obama described the b;ack person's perspective of life in America. He is exactly correct.

    Most people in the West cannot understand this. They never will, because they have not witnessed it. But predjudicial hatred of blacks is still alive and well in the South.

    This young man was essentially hunted, found, threatened, put up a fight and then killed. John Grisham's book "A Time To Kill" would be an excellent read for westerners.

    I hope the DOJ's investigation reveals the problems with Stand Your Ground laws and charges Zimmerman appropriately with violating the Civil Rights of this innocent young man.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 25, 2013 4:50 p.m.

    @Liberal Today
    "African-Americans are incapable of being racists, because to be a racist you have power and money. "

    Minorities can definitely be racist as individuals. What you're talking about with power and money is "institutional racism" that exists within a system and that typically flows in a majority->minority direction.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 25, 2013 4:51 p.m.

    @pramatistferlife

    The law requires that those words be included in jury instruction whenever self-defense is claimed. However, the fact remains that Stand Your Ground was never invoked by the defense. They didn't need to. The facts of the case didn't warrant it. Zimmerman's supposed duty to retreat wasn't in question. He said he was attacked by surprise and pinned to the ground. There was no opportunity for retreat.

    You claimed earlier that Stand Your Ground is what makes this case unique, and it's just not so.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 25, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    Stand your ground is a bad law and a worse mentality. Either Martin or Zimmerman might have ended the standoff by walking away. Neither of them did. The standard in play was stand your ground when it should have been use your head.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    July 25, 2013 5:14 p.m.

    Here, i will summarize this letter for potential readers:

    GOP good
    Obama bad

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    July 25, 2013 5:21 p.m.

    @PatriotVet
    You hit the nail on the head. The south is very different than here in Utah when it comes to race relations. First, because to be racist against black people there would have to be a black population that lives here. Second, while slavery was technically legal at one point in Utah it wasn't a widespread practice, so there really isn't the same culture of it here. I lived in Georgia from age 14-19 and let me tell you, in the back woods of that state racism was alive and well in the late 90's early 2000's.

  • Rand Ogden, UT
    July 25, 2013 5:34 p.m.

    Lost in DC,

    I just looked over their comments again, and I'm sorry, I can't see the race card being played there. I saw a sarcastic comment about conservative reaction to Obama's speech and a defensive retort, but that's it. I didn't see them blaming an outcome on race, making excuses because of race, calling someone racist in order to deflect from the argument at hand. I think you believe that any mention of race by a liberal is "the race card".

    Maybe if I had your goggles through which to view the world, the race card would stand out plain as day. I'd also then be able to see the War on Christmas, the War on Religion, the evils of climate change science, the liberal conspiracy of higher education, and the Little Bird of Perpetual Gloom that whispers in your ear that all the world's ills are the fault of liberals. Kind of glad I don't, though.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    July 25, 2013 9:54 p.m.

    Nate I still think your wrong because prior to the passage of the stand your ground law the instructions to the jury would have been, "cannot justify his use of force likely to cause death or great bodily harm if by retreating he could have avoided the need to use that force.". I know he was eventually supposedly pinned to the ground but previous to that he had stalked and confronted Trevon for no reason. In fact he was told to not follow him. Self defense only makes sense with stand your ground. I'm pretty sure also that the first juror who spoke out and supported the decision, referred to stand your ground as justification.

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    July 26, 2013 8:25 a.m.

    @pragmatistferlife

    You say that Zimmerman "confronted Trevon," but this was never established as fact in the courtroom. Juror B37 said they found Zimmerman's account to be most consistent with the evidence. The dispatcher told him not to follow Trayvon, but also asked if he knew where Trayvon went. By Zimmerman's account, he left his truck to find an address, and Trayvon attacked him.

    Juror B37 said that the jury read and re-read all the related laws: second-degree murder, manslaughter, self-defense (which included Stand Your Ground). They considered all of it. But what it came down to was, "He had a right to defend himself. If he felt threatened that his life was going to be taken away from him or he was going to have bodily harm, he had a right."

    That's straightforward self-defense. Even under the old law, with the old jury instructions, the conclusion would have been the same. According to the account the jury found most credible, he was pinned to the ground before he began to fear for his life. He was no longer able to retreat. Stand Your Ground wasn't in question.

  • totom Warwick, RI
    July 26, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    First off my heart goes out to the family in this horrible tragedy. The thing that bugs me from go is, The watch guy called it in to police, They told him ok and not to pursue him (that's his job!!)But he takes it upon himself to follow this young man anyway. How long did he proceed to follow him? If I'm a young man doing nothing wrong (taking into account that Zimmerman told to get back in his car). I would be getting a little freaked out by this point and nervous and a little angry for being followed by someone I don't even know. So he approaches a man presuming he is unarmed because the weapon is concealed and most likely ask why you following me what exchanges from there is a mystery. In the heat of battle most things get blurred. I left race entirely out of it. I believe Zimmerman never would have got out of his car if he had no weapon. Fight to get the gun law changed that's the need. The laws failed this young man not a Hispanic/white person.

  • totom Warwick, RI
    July 26, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    First off my heart goes out to the family in this horrible tragedy. The thing that bugs me from go is, The neighborhood watch guy called it in to police, They told him ok and not to pursue him (that's his job!!) So his job should have been done right there. But he takes it upon himself to follow this young man anyway. How long did he proceed to follow him? If I'm a young man doing nothing wrong (taking into account that Zimmerman told to get back in his car). I would be nervous and a little angry for being followed by someone I don't even know. So he approaches a man presuming he is unarmed because the weapon is concealed and most likely ask why you following me what exchanges from there is a mystery. In the heat of battle most things get blurred. I left race entirely out of it. I believe Zimmerman never would have got out of his car if he had no weapon. Fight to get the gun law changed that's the need. The laws failed this young man not a Hispanic/white person.

  • the old switcharoo mesa, AZ
    July 26, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    The right wing is holding up Zimmerman as a folk hero when I can't imagine anyone thinking any better of him than a man who should have stayed in his car.

    The fact IS that Trevon hadn't done what Zimmerman suspected him of doing.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    July 26, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    totom,

    "....I believe Zimmerman never would have got out of his car if he had no weapon...."
    ______________________________

    Carrying a gun gives a false sense of security that might embolden one to take ill-advised risks he might otherwise choose not to take. The accessibility of firearms in America is a factor that’s been barely mentioned in the Zimmerman case. Reluctance of gun advocates to consider its role in this tragedy is proportionate to the disproportionate emphasis on the conduct of the unarmed Trayvon Martin that night.

  • VIDAR Murray, UT
    July 26, 2013 11:38 a.m.

    Craig Clark:

    Carrying a gun gives a false sense of security that might embolden one to take ill-advised risks he might otherwise choose not to take

    I would take this a step further and say having a gun creates confrontation.
    There are those who have a false sense of security with a gun. Normal accepted behavior in our society is unless there is immediate and imminent danger. You do not get involved in a conflict. You call the police; Zimmerman was brave because he had a gun. He would not have gotten out of the car without one; he would have called the police, and stayed in his car.
    I believe some people want an opportunity to use their gun, so they go out looking for conflict. In states like Florida, they give these vigilantes a get out of jail free card; with the stand your ground laws.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    July 26, 2013 12:56 p.m.

    Caucasians should be worried that Zimmerman is being persecuted by the press, the feds, and activists, all because he looks Caucasian.

    Latinos should be worried because the above mentioned guy is actually Latino, so they are being targeted too.

    The accusers should be worried because when racism is condoned, it perpetuates, and the wind could blow the other direction, making downwind.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    July 26, 2013 1:04 p.m.

    "The right wing is holding up Zimmerman as a folk hero..."

    Zimmerman:

    Mentor for troubled youth
    Helps accident victims
    Looks out for his neighbors
    Acquitted of criminal activity

    The left win is holding up Martin as a folk hero...

    Martin:

    Pot smoker
    suspended from school (guilty of school rule violation)
    racist (called Zimmerman a "... cracker")
    walking near houses in private property complex (trespasser)
    punched out a middle aged dude he didn't even know (assault)

    The right is behind the right guy, as usual.

    And alas, Martin's death was a tragedy. But it doesn't make him a hero. It makes him a guy who shouldn't have pounded on Zimmerman.

  • Badgerbadger Murray, UT
    July 26, 2013 2:30 p.m.

    My post should have said,

    The accusers should be worried because when racism is condoned, it perpetuates, and the wind could blow the other direction, making THEM downwind.

    @ Lib2day

    The POTUS, the most powerful man in the world, is a self proclaimed African-American. African-Americans have a lot of power, (in the press, the president, the attorney general, many congressmen, the well funded organizations like the NAACP, the Al Sharptons of the world) and in this case, they are using that money and power to persecute George Zimmerman, because of his color, ie racism. Call me a sheltered UT person if you want, but I know racism when I see it.

    As a nation, we have made great progress on the challenge of racism, but we are stuck on a plateau. The perpetuation of hate and racist persecution of Zimmerman is a step backwards. The fact that is comes from a group that has previously been the victim of racism, does not excuse it or make it okay. It is still wrong. In fact it is likely that Martin's racist attitudes contributed to his death.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    July 27, 2013 11:59 a.m.

    He is killing race relations in this country. That's what race baiters do. The establishment wants another civil/race war in this country and they see this trial as another way to try and provoke one.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    July 27, 2013 12:01 p.m.

    If Zimmerman was a liberal/victim he would be labelled as latino, not white.

    If Obama was a conservative, he would be labelled as white and not black.

    It's astonishing how race baiters can control reality by labelling bi-racial people according to their political agenda.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 29, 2013 10:54 a.m.

    the real tragedy here beyond the fact that a life was lost is the fact that once again this president saw fit to inject race and politics into the matter thus dividing Americans once again. Yes the 'great divider' Obama continues to predictably play the race card at every opportunity instead of trying to be the president of ALL Americans including George Zimmerman and his family. Obama has NEVER been the president of all Americans and never will. A real US president is not so petty and politically once sided but again we are dealing with a demagogue here who plays to his base of voters instead of trying to heal the entire nation. Sickening.