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BYU football: Scheduling as independent helps recruiting

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  • hedgehog Ann Arbor, MI
    July 1, 2013 6:11 a.m.

    These are great recruiting upgrades.....if your comparing your program against Idaho St or Dixie.

    Any BCS program can offer big venues but can also add

    1 for 1 with storied program forever
    Division and confernce championhips
    Elite bowl tie ins.

    Go ahead and drink th kool-aid but understand what it really means (big carp in a stagnat swamp)

  • Common-Tator Saint Paul, MN
    July 1, 2013 7:07 a.m.

    Was that "exposure" not precisely the driving force behind going independent? For fans, it was definitely frustrating while living outside the geographic bounds of "The Mountain", and only getting to see / hear Cougar games via streaming audio.

    For potential recruits, this is a decided boon. For fans, it's simply "fantastic." For missionary work (firesides), it is ideal.

  • u25 West Jordan, UT
    July 1, 2013 7:20 a.m.

    How can independence help recruiting. Since announcing indy the y has had there 3 worst recruiting classes ever.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 7:47 a.m.

    Lots of jealousy from the hill trolls this morning.

    It's a great time to be a BYU fan!

  • Bluto Sandy, UT
    July 1, 2013 7:57 a.m.

    @hedgie

    Don't be so nervous, just accept the fact that BYU is a unique institution with a National Brand and a "Genuine Legacy". They (BYU) are desired by the biggest name in the World of Sports, ESPN.

    BYU has averaged 10 broadcasts a year on the ESPN networks.
    Utah...1.

    Coat-tailing bottom-feeders of Conferences (and every conference has them) go unnoticed.
    They are the Washington Generals of their league. Sparring partners for the real football programs of their Conference.
    see...Utah

    Many schools need a Conference-Crutch. They are unable to go it alone on their own name.
    And that's OK too...see Utah

    BYU has established assets, one hundred million dollars has been invested into BYU broadcasting alone. Their program has checked all the boxes with College Football's highest honors.

    BYU fans all over the world can now once again see every game on TV.
    If that means playing in San Diego instead of El Paso or Boise...so be it.

    As for the only bowls that really matter, the 4 team playoff, BYU's access is just as good as any other school.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 8:14 a.m.

    You want to know what helps recruiting?

    Going to BCS games, winnings BCS games, top 5 finishes, having true athletes as potential teammates

    Out of Utah, BYU, and USU, care to know who WON the recruiting battle the last 3 years?

    Utah.

    And that "winning" can be determined by EITHER

    average stars

    OR

    number of kids who picked Utah out of kids who had offers to all 3 state schools

    And if you think stars don't matter....

    Nick Saban disagrees with you

    GO Utes!

  • BYU sports on TV in Missouri Lebanon, MO
    July 1, 2013 8:16 a.m.

    Having lived outside of Utah for the past 15 years I have seen a huge difference in exposure relative to independence.. As part of the MWC I had to really struggle to find the games and 30% of the time even if we maxed out our cable upgrades we still would not have access. Rarely did anyone from work mention they watched BYU play one of their games. Since going independent we have been able to watch every game and it is common for my coworkers to comment about having seen BYU playing on TV. Knowing that your friends and family can watch you play every week regardless of where they live in the United states I am sure helps to bring players to BYU.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    July 1, 2013 8:30 a.m.

    Chris B

    "Out of Utah, BYU, and USU, care to know who WON the recruiting battle the last 3 years?

    Utah."

    Last year between Utah, BYU and USU, Utah came in last in the final polls.

  • eastcoastcoug Danbury, CT
    July 1, 2013 8:41 a.m.

    Like most articles on BYU, most of the comments here are from frustrated little Utes with apparently nothing to do on a Monday morning. As bad as BYU may be, Utah gets its recruits and fan base from exactly the same places as BYU, and from an outsider's perspective is also a Utah school with mostly Mormons. One student body lives on a campus with lots of peculiar culture norms. The other lives at home with Mom. So not a big difference.

    I don't get it...if Utah has supposedly "moved on", why are some Ute fans so fixated on BYU?? I'm the oldest of several brothers...I could care less what my "little brothers" are doing and don't sit around dissing their achievements all week long.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 1, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    We are getting tons of awesome recruits right now.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2013 8:49 a.m.

    Quote All American BYU qb Mark Wilson. “(Independence) is interesting, but I’m an old-school guy who misses rivalries and all that history. Now we don’t talk about that stuff. It's different schools. They are great schools, but schools we don’t have much history with.” (added note - one or two games does not a history make.)

    Independence is like a one-time fling. Short term enjoyment. Long term meaningless. Nothing on the line. Each game means nothing towards league standings; nothing towards which, if any, possible bowl invitations; nothing towards all-conference selections; nothing in comparison with previous (or future)wins/losses against each opponent; nothing towards developed rivalries; in short, it is an island - isolated and set apart from any other considerations. It is only a game - be it against Nebraska or Idaho, or New Mexico, or Middle Tennessee State, or....

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 1, 2013 8:56 a.m.

    We will soon start to see the disadvantages independent recruiting.
    Then the byu "fans" can add another excuse to "honor code" and "the refs".

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    July 1, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Who am I sir?

    "Independence is like a one-time fling. Short term enjoyment. Long term meaningless. Nothing on the line. Each game means nothing towards league standings; nothing towards which, if any, possible bowl invitations; nothing towards all-conference selections; nothing in comparison with previous (or future)wins/losses against each opponent; nothing towards developed rivalries; in short, it is an island - isolated and set apart from any other considerations. It is only a game - be it against Nebraska or Idaho, or New Mexico, or Middle Tennessee State, or...."

    I will forward your sage analysis on to Notre Dame to illuminate them as the futility of independence.

    FYI: Last year the Cougs had 10 games nationally televised, your Utes 1. Conference bottom dwellers indeed get little national exposure and attention.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 1, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Replacing Utah with Nebraska is helping recruiting.

    Playing a ute team who is behind BYU, USU, Weber, and Bingham is not very attractive.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    July 1, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    Geez, look what furry friend came out of hibernation. Or has she been here all along using one of her other handles?

    This article and its conclusion cannot possibly be correct or my name is not Howie Vet Chris gored navel S. B. Earnest Mildred the IV.

    Only a national brand can make independence work to its advantage.

  • Cougsndawgs West Point , UT
    July 1, 2013 9:09 a.m.

    I think most BYU fans realized that going independent was going to be difficult at first in terms of recruiting. Independence was a gamble at first, and didn't provide the most enticing scheduling. I think BYUs recruiting suffered somewhat the initial couple years as recruits were mulling over what kind of program BYU would be and where they would play etc. Now that the schedules are becoming more enticing and BYU has shown that independence works (much more money and exposure than the MW), more of the bigger name recruits like Warner, Kurtz, kearsley, etc are starting to be more interested. I think in the end if BYU wins and makes splashes nationally you will only see that recruiting get better.

    Utah can continue being #1 in recruiting and finishing last where it counts IMO. Mcnasty hit it on the head...no one cares about your recruits, they care how you finish. For ute trolls it's all about stars, not championships or rankings, so it's no wonder U find yourself getting sent to the back of the line while your big brothers (BYU included) get their rankings, awards, and bowls and U wait for sloppy seconds.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 9:15 a.m.

    Busy morning for the Ute trolls. They are nervous that a school with higher standards for academics and personal conduct is getting more press. Being the doormat in the PAC12 doesn't seem to fill their needs.

  • morpunkt Glendora, CA
    July 1, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    @worf- I agree with you completely. And, as you especially know, coming from Texas, it will greatly interest many, within that vast football talent pool to look at living in Provo for 4 years.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 1, 2013 9:26 a.m.

    And the BYU spin continues...

    The truth is that BYU's three recruiting classes since the Indy announcement have been the lowest ranked in Bronco's tenure.

  • Y's Guy Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 9:51 a.m.

    Howard S.
    Taylorsville, UT
    "And the BYU spin continues...
    The truth is that BYU's three recruiting classes..."

    That's it? That's all you've got? BYU's three recruiting classes? That's what you're hanging your hat on? Talk about spin. LOL

  • Jim1027 St. George, UT
    July 1, 2013 9:59 a.m.

    Let's look at the next 20 years for BYU and Utah. Most sports writers and coaches would say that Utah will have a DIFFICULT, if not impossible, chance of winning a championship in the PAC12 in football or basketball. They'll be lucky to have a winning record.

    That's the hard facts. So how will that help Utah get into BCS bowls? It won't!

    So Utah will brag about playing in the PAC12 and probably get either no bowl games or some really horrible ones.

    And, they will not ever have the tv coverage that BYU will have, just based on reality. Plus, they don't have BYUtv.

    BYU will play some good opponents, have great tv coverage, and play in bowl games every year. That has been demonstrable and it looks like BYU will be getting better.

    How does that sound to Utah fans?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    @Y's Guy

    The article is about how Indy helps recruiting...

    The truth is that BYU recruiting has declined since the announcement of Indy.

    I'm not hanging my hat on anything other than the truth... no spin or elaboration needed.

  • Sounds right.. Cedar city, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    Why is it that ute fans are always on BYU articles to comment. It's because they are not really ute fans just BYU haters. I never read a Utah article, and that's because i could care less about their program. They finish at the bottom of the conference in every sport and everybody knows if it was not for BYU being a Mormon school they would be in that conf rather than Utah, because they bring so much more to the table.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    July 1, 2013 10:19 a.m.

    "Feeling the sting of rejection, Mendenhall chose to play at Oregon State."

    Chris, this can't be?

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Nice work Bronco; come for the football, stay for the education.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:30 a.m.

    @Howard S. "The truth is that BYU's three recruiting classes since the Indy announcement have been the lowest ranked in Bronco's tenure."

    The truth is that that statement is completely false.

    Per Rivals (every Ute fan's favorite recruiting website), we find the following information"
    Bronco Mendenhall Era Recruiting Class Rankings
    2005: #63
    2006: #67
    2007: #56
    2008: #83
    2009: #50
    2010: #40
    2011: #62
    2012: #61
    2013: #70

    2008 was the worst ranked class in the Bronco Mendenhall era at #83. The 2013 class would be next at #70, while both 2011 and 2012 would rank 5th and 4th respectively in Bronco's classes.

    So definitely NOT the lowest in Bronco's tenure.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 1, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    Howard S.;

    Recruit ranking is not very reliable.

    If it was, Notre Dame, and Texas would be playing for the national championship almost every year.

    BYU would never be a top twenty five team, or be winning ten games most years.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 1, 2013 10:32 a.m.

    "Recruits that sign with BYU, particularly from outside of Utah, often say one reason is the Cougars regularly appear on ESPN networks...Offensive lineman Tim Duran, a junior college transfer from Puyallup, Wash., who signed with the Cougars last February, is not a member of the LDS Church and didn't know much about BYU before he became a target of the Cougars' recruiting efforts...But he had seen the Cougars on television." -- Jeff Call

    I wonder if recruits that signed with the Indy-WACers often say one reason for their ultimate decision was that they were otherwise a 2-star recruit with zero other offers...like the aforementioned offensive lineman, Tim Duran?

  • thebigsamoan Richmond, VA
    July 1, 2013 10:39 a.m.

    To CB, Vet, Howie, Hedgie, ETB, Ms. Mildred, and others like you,

    So great you won the last recruiting battles. That was quite an achievement! Even more impressive was the results of winning those recruiting battles...a prime spot on your couches during the post season bowls and the prestigious honor of being bottom feeders in your college of champions ever since you joined. May I politely ask you guys to please stop the nonsense until you've actually accomplish something in your conference, will ya? I'll be the first to rise and acknowledge that if and when it happens, and I absolutely want to see you guys do it. But until then, can you please put a lid to it! Thanks!

    Go Cougars, USU, and the Utes too!!!

  • Wookie Omaha, NE
    July 1, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    I truly enjoy seeing the schedule of the Y getting stronger and stronger with each indepedent year. I think that this was the right decision for BYU for so many reasons. I think it would be fun to be a player for the Y going to all of the different destinations they travel to, including Idaho. I think it would be a challenge for coaching and players to learn all of the different schemes each program brings. This will only make the Y players and coaches better overall. Not taking anything away from the U, as it stands now, it is arguably more challenging to be the U and having top-notch teams week in and week out.

    Great article.

    Go UTES!!

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 1, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    "And the BYU spin continues..."

    The only spin I see is utah fans obsessed with BYU, making excuses for the lousy showing in the PAC 11+u, and fans who think they have moved on, but have to prove their self worth on BYU articles every day.

    I find it hilarious that u fans get all worked over by a newspaper being positive about the local team, and looking forward to this year.

    The question isn't why is DN so positive and "spinning" news that get the fans ready...

    The question is why ute trolls take exception to it and waste some much time trying to put BYU fans in their place?

    It is a strange little world you live in when your daily goal is try try to convince your rival fans that you are better than they are.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 1, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    Y's Guy:

    "That's it? That's all you've got? BYU's three recruiting classes? That's what you're hanging your hat on? Talk about spin. LOL"

    Well, considering that the title of this particular article is "BYU football: Scheduling as independent helps recruiting", Howard S's comment seemed extremely "relevant". Howard pointed out that the Indy-WACers recruiting has NOT been helped, and provided proof that was in direct contrast to what the article claims.

    I'm not sure your YOUR point was. You're LOL-ing that your last 3 recruiting classes were the worst in menden2star's coaching tenure at the Y? That's not "spin". That's the cold hard truth. Do you even know what "spin" means, or is that just a word you keep seeing popping up on these threads, and thought you'd use it too?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 1, 2013 10:48 a.m.

    Sounds right:

    "Why is it that ute fans are always on BYU articles to comment. It's because they are not really ute fans just BYU haters."

    Can't we be BOTH? What makes you think we're compelled to choose one path or the other? Are you THAT narrow minded?

    "...if it was not for BYU being a Mormon school they would be in that conf rather than Utah, because they bring so much more to the table."

    Does it bring a Medical School to the table? Does it bring "Tier-1 Research" status? Does it bring any BCS bowl history?

    No, no, and no.

    All it'd bring would be a whiney persecution complex. Utah brought the Med School, Tier-1 Research, and 2 BCS bowl trophies.

    Edge: Utah.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    @Howard S. "The truth is that BYU recruiting has declined since the announcement of Indy."

    Again, that statement is inaccurate.

    From 2002-2010 (the year before BYU went independent), BYU's average class ranking per Rivals was a 63.

    Since going independent, BYU's average class ranking has been a 64 (uh oh, we're going down!). But two of the classes that BYU has had since going independent both were ranked slightly higher than the average class ranking before going independent (62 in 2011 and 61 in 2012 compared to the average of 63). The only reason for the slight discrepancy in the average classes is the smaller sample size of recruiting classes that we have to draw from since BYU went independent, causing last year's class ranking of #70 to bring the average up to a 64.

    Because these two samples aren't balanced, it's impossible to draw an accurate comparison between the two. Why don't we wait another six years, and then compare the two again to see if BYU's recruiting classes really are "declining"?

    Thanks for your interest though, Howard. Nice to see another jump on to the BYU train :)

    Go Cougars!

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    @truecoug1

    Six year average per Indy is 60th...

    Three year average post Indy is 64th...

    Indy recruiting not really headed in the right direction as the BYU spin machine would have you believe.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:53 a.m.

    Interesting read...fun comments.

    The local press is still trying to sell the byu faithful on independence which is very telling in it's own right.

    byu fans still don't want an opposing point of view because it detracts from the harmony of a one sided conversation. Also very telling.

    byu fans still trying to explain on these boards why byu wasn't selected by the Pac-10 in fulfillment of their 30 year dream. Also very telling.

    No mention of the 2 for 1 arrangements byu has to settle for. Also very telling.

    No mention of the dearth of bowl opportunities. Also very telling.

    Talk of great recruits with no mention of the mediocre rankings of recruiting classes. Also very telling.

    No mention of ND moving to a quasi-conference arrangement while byu is completely invested in independence. Also very telling.

    Yep...all is well in independence land.

  • Juice19 South Jordan, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    Its comical how people put some much emphasis on conference affiliation. Really, it boils down to Coaching staffs and what the school presents and offers, not just the conference. I will say though, that the conference affiliation is like the cherry on top or in BYU's case, just plain vanilla.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 1, 2013 11:03 a.m.

    STuFOO:

    "It is a strange little world you live in when your daily goal is try try to convince your rival fans that you are better than they are."

    That's not a "daily goal". That's "mission accomplished". We convinced you all that 8 times over the past 11 seasons, including the last 3-yrs in a row.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 1, 2013 11:05 a.m.

    MyPerspective

    more interesting is that you still care.

    What does it matter if BYU fans want to root for their team and read positive articles about them?

    Why do you care if BYU like independence even though you feel it is a bad idea?

    Why do you come here to tell BYU fans that they are wrong and you are right?

    Who is more delusional?

    the BYU fan who is hoping that they will have a great year, is rooting for the team no matter the situation they are currently in, and is hoping for the best...

    or a fan from a rival team whose bent on putting them in their place and showing everyone that they are somehow superior?

    My bet...

    Your delusion is much more telling. One is normal and every team has the same normal fans (look at the Detroit Lions fans)

    One is not normal.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:07 a.m.

    @Howard S.

    See my last post. A 6 year period and a 3 year period are unbalanced, meaning any statistical comparison between the two is going to flawed.

    What should be REALLY disconcerting for U is the following:
    Since 2008, Utah's recruiting has been the best it has ever been (according to most Ute fans) while its subsequent record, and/or ranking, has decreased:
    2009: Class Ranking: #44. '09-'10 Record/Sagarin Ranking: 10-3, 24
    2010: Class Ranking: #32. '10-'11 Record/Sagarin Ranking: 10-3, 26
    2011: Class Ranking: #37. '11-'12 Record/Sagarin Ranking: 8-5, 39
    2012: Class Ranking: #28. '12-'13 Record/Sagarin Ranking: 5-7, 61
    2013: Class Ranking: #44 '13-'14 Record/Sagarin Ranking: ???, ??

    Not a very good trend. I'll be interested to see what happens this year.

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    @My Perspective

    The fact that a little over 1/3 of the comments on this board are from Ute trolls...also very telling.

    The fact that 5 of the 8 most commented articles in the sports section are BYU-related...also very telling.

    BYU drives the media and the ratings here in-state. It shouldn't be surprising, then, that the D News has a series of articles covering BYU as an independent in a positive light.

    I love being independent. It's a perfect fit for BYU and what BYU stands for. I also think it's great that Utah is in the PAC 12, not just for the university, but for the state as well. It's a great fit for the PAC and for Utah.

    Both fan bases should be very happy! I love this time of the year, though. It's when all of the trash-talking comes out, since nothing is happening right now. I always enjoy it :)

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:22 a.m.

    @Howard S.

    So there are two points that I'd like to make. First, recruiting is completely subjective...see worf's comment below. Databases differ in opinions, but also in size. No database has the scouts or the resources to go to evaluate every kid that's out there. So there are a lot of recruits that are evaluated, not on talent, but by how many offers they have, without any scout ever having seen them play.

    That's why you get guys like Eric Weddle and Dennis Pitta who were 2-star athletes coming in to college, but both of whom flourished in college and in the pros.

    Second, BYU is different. They have much higher standards, both academically and morally, than most every other university out there. That doesn't mean BYU is better than every other university, just different. As such, they have a much smaller pool of recruits to draw from. They will never have absurdly high class rankings, mostly because of the limited number of kids they can offer, and because they offer a lot of kids early, before they have a chance to be evaluated.

    BYU will be just fine. But thanks for your concern :)

  • Missouri loves BYU Lebanon, MO
    July 1, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    @ Naval Vet

    A team from the PAC 11+U played in the Rose Bowl every year..... The fact that Utah played in a couple of BCS Bowls isn't all that impressive to them. Next time a PAC11+U team comes to RES to play Utah for an easy win why don't you show them a couple ticket stubs from when Utah played in a BCS bowl. I will hear the laughing all the way out here in Virginia. Keep believeing the PAC11+U wants Utah to represent the conference in the Rose Bowl....In about 20 years the truth will finally set in as you again sit at home alone during bowl season.... Utah might be a member the conference, however, the real teams, accolades, awards and achievemnts in the PAC11+U are always going to be way out of your league.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:27 a.m.

    @Naval Vet

    To borrow a template from one of your fellow Ute "fans":

    "D-II QB", "tied for 3rd", "4th best full-season record", "upset GA Tech", "one of only two postseason wins" "19 months ago."

    "THAT's "something"."

    LOL!

    Go Cougars!

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:37 a.m.

    @ MacNasty

    "I will forward your sage analysis on to Notre Dame to illuminate them as the futility of independence."

    Please do; however don't delay. Next year they are a member of the ACC!

    Side note: To me the best thing BYU could do is recognize you are NO Notre Dame. And we are no USC. How many time have I read BYU fans say they want scheduling games "the same as Notre Dame has" or Bowl arrangements or..... Or when the Y fans say USC can schedule out of conference games in November why can't the U. Because we are not USC. We agreed to the negotiated PAC-12 entrance where it would be 4 years before we gained 100% revenue sharing as the other PAC-12 teams because we held no disillusions. Were we equals to other members at the time of admission? No. But we are in the PAC-12.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 1, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    @truecoug1

    You have written several hundred words spin the decline in BYU recruiting since the Indy announcement.

    The truth can be written in five words... Indy has hurt BYU recruiting...

    Simple and true.

  • CBPapa Cedar Hills, UT
    July 1, 2013 12:00 p.m.

    It's not often that I agree with a Ute poster on a BYU article, but 'Who am I sir?' does strike a nerve when he mentions Cougar fans comparing BYU to Notre Dame. Makes me cringe. Also glad to see that some Utah fans recognize that they are not USC.

    This time of year kills me...can't wait for the fall.
    It's going to be an interesting year for sure for BYU, Utah, and USU. I'll be rooting for the boys in blue (both teams) in all their games except when they play each other.

  • Down under Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    Howie,
    And yet BYU is still ranked higher than Utah and still goes to bowl games. I guess BYU coaches are far superior to the Utah coaches and do more with less.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 12:25 p.m.

    @Howard S. "Indy has hurt BYU recruiting"

    How? How has Indy hurt BYU's recruiting? U already lost all credibility when U "frantically and emotionally" said that the three Indy recruiting classes are the worst in Bronco's tenure, when, as I showed, they aren't.

    U lose credibility by saying "Indy has hurt BYU recruiting" when U have guys like Tim Duran, Trajan Pili, Fred Warner, Trent Trammell, etc all talk about how seeing BYU on ESPN helped them make their decision to commit.

    I've also showed that 2 of BYU's 3 recruiting classes since going Indy were better than their average class ranking before going independent.

    So how has independence hurt BYU recruiting? Please show me some empirical evidence that supports your position. Otherwise, I'll just be forced to conclude that you "frantically and emotionally" made that up.

    But again, thanks for your love of all things BYU, Howard. It's always nice to see BYU picking up more and more fans.

    :)

    Go Cougars!

  • ekute Layton, UT
    July 1, 2013 12:27 p.m.

    down under,

    Seems that when it comes to vs the Utes on the field, byu does less with "more".

  • Y Grad / Y Dad Richland, WA
    July 1, 2013 12:36 p.m.

    Better recruits go in, more drafted by the NFL players come out, but what are they doing in there in the middle???

    Going from mediocre to worse. Someone mentioned "carp in a stagnant pond." Nice illusion, but it just doesn't fit. @ ND, @ Texas, @ Wisconsin, @ USC (and yes, the article is talking about the recruiting advantages of playing in storied venues), these do not describe a stagnant pond.

    But the other day I went out to my koi pond and saw a guppy belly up, and it sure reminded me of Utah.

  • MyPerspective Salt Lake City, UT
    July 1, 2013 12:38 p.m.

    Actually, STuFOO...it's posts like yours telling those with opposing points of view to get lost that I'm referring to. Why are you people compelled to do that if not for wanting to ensure that you can elevate yourselves above others without objection?

    I have no problem with byu fans cheering on their team until I see comments conveying the notion that every program in the country wants to be byu. That simply is not the case and I will (and do) step in. Contrived conspiracy theories about why byu was left out of the Pac-10 will also illicit a response.

    Contrary to what you suggest, I don't think independence is not a bad idea for byu. However, I do think it's the only option they have. These feel good articles from the local media serve to keep the fan base energized but it's little more that a continual stream of selling ponies and rainbows to the fans. If it works for you, great. Refrain from getting caught up in talk that deep down, every program wants it. They don't.

  • Reno Cougs Fan 68 Reno, NV
    July 1, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    Hedgehog,

    Remind us all about the big venue that the Utes have!!! How they are fast tracking the expansion of RES to accommodate the people on the huge waiting list for season tickets!!! How the Utes have torn trough their competition, won their division and beat both foes in the Rose Bowl!!! I never get tired of seeing all the banners being raised in Utah's venues!!! I only wish I could contain my jealousy while seeing my lowly Cougars accept the commissioners cup for the lowly WCC conference!!!

    Go Cougs!!!
    Go Utes!!!

  • trueblueBYU Provo, UT
    July 1, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    Does Utah still have a football program? I never see them on TV anymore. Why would that be?

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 1, 2013 2:05 p.m.

    trueblueBYU
    Provo, UT
    Does Utah still have a football program? I never see them on TV anymore. Why would that be?

    _____

    Interesting, college football fans see BYU on TV, wonder why they have a football team, and flip the channel. Why would that be?
    BYU fans are exited to see the Cougs on TV, nothing else. Even why continuing the tradition of losing to ranked teams.

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    July 1, 2013 2:12 p.m.

    Re: Who am I sir @11:37 am

    Nice try at deception, but if you follow sports at all you know that Notre Dame football remains independent.

    Other sports will be with the ACC, but not football. OOOOPPPPS!

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 1, 2013 2:13 p.m.

    Bluto
    Sandy, UT

    

Many schools need a Conference-Crutch. They are unable to go it alone on their own name. 


    ____

    Apparently BYU had to go it alone on its name. Was not enough to get them invited to a conference.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 1, 2013 2:23 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    "Why are you people compelled to do that if not for wanting to ensure that you can elevate yourselves above others without objection?"

    Interesting. One need only look at who drew first blood to see if what you said is true.

    You attack BYU fans on BYU articles. BYU fans defend themselves. Now you are going to play the victim?

    Weak.

    It doesn't take a u bachelors of arts degree to see that your comments are disingenuous.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 1, 2013 2:36 p.m.

    MyPerspective

    This comment epitomizes u trolls faulty thinking

    "Refrain from getting caught up in talk that deep down, every program wants it. They don't."

    Who are you to decide that? Why are you lumping all BYU fans in the same group?

    Have you ever read a single comment where I have said that BYU is what everyone wants to be?

    Nope.

    Again, answer my original questions. what do you win if you convince BYU fans that they are second class to u?

    Nothing.

    But don't come to BYU articles, take a swing at BYU fans, have them swing back with a vengeance, and then play the victim.

    Don't pretend to be sanctimonious and that your only there to correct mistrusts. You're the one coming to the comment boards looking for a fight.

    It is laughable that vet, hegie, you, chris, and the lot come here to "justify" your place in the world. It is incredibly interesting that you would spend time arguing about something you can't win.

    Navel lint: Mission accomplished? Who are you Bush?

    Is football done?

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    July 1, 2013 2:48 p.m.

    To Naval Vet, Howard S, etc.:

    If Utah recruits are so much better than BYU and USU, exactly why is it that Utah finishes dead last of those 3 schools at end of the year national rankings? And if that is true, then why is it that Utah is the only one of those schools to be only watching instead of playing in end of season bowl games? It would seem your rationale concerning recruit quality doesn't carry much weight in the real world.

    One more thing you should eventually start understanding. Being in a BCS conference doesn't mean jack squat to most quality recruits if you can't win those conference games. It makes so sense at all to feel great about being on a BCS conference team that consistently finishes in a contest for the conference cellar each year. None. You really need to find something else to start touting... something that makes more sense.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 1, 2013 2:55 p.m.

    WACPaddingOurSchedule

    "Interesting, college football fans see BYU on TV, wonder why they have a football team, and flip the channel."

    You're confusing what you do with what many other people are doing.

    How could you possibly know what people do when they see BYU football on T.V.?

    Why would the opposing teams fans turn the channel?

    And why would anyone except u trolls look at BYU and wonder why they have a football team?

    Most of the country is not as cynical as you. I watch the BYU Notre Dame Game at Six Flags Magic Mountain with 100 other people. MANY of whom were not ND fans.

    No one asked to change the channel.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    July 1, 2013 3:16 p.m.

    To Who Am I Sir:

    You sir, are someone not very informed with your football facts. Like McNasty pointed out, Notre Dame has chosen to retain its football independence, even though they could've joined the ACC in that sport next year, too. Their independence has worked out great for them, something obvious to even people not so informed regarding college football facts.

    And though BYU is no Notre Dame yet, it's the same independence path they are pursuing, and for the same reasons. And most indicators are showing that it's working out very well. They are now playing on national TV multiple times as often as Utah is and they are continuing to play in post-season bowl games each year... something Utah can no longer claim.

    Please be a bit more careful with the facts you choose to use and from where you choose to cast your criticisms. Both things will help readers take you a bit more seriously.

  • Tators Hyrum, UT
    July 1, 2013 4:25 p.m.

    To WACPaddingOurSchedule:

    If college football fans were really turning their channels after finding a BYU football game on, do you really think ESPN would've given them a long, financial rewarding 8 year contract? No, they most definitely would not have. They are much smarter than that. And perhaps even more-so than some Ute commenters.

    It's pretty obvious that ESPN has the means and resources to know more of what it is that football fans like to watch more than you do. And it's also pretty obvious that on a national level, BYU must be somewhat in demand. The proof is in the pudding... I mean in the contract.

  • softbear Olympia, WA
    July 1, 2013 5:44 p.m.

    Ok,here it goes to both BYU & UTE fans, "Who cares which team has the best recruiting class", what counts is the final wins & standings. Doesn't matter who you play only if you win with the talent you have. Neither school will never have the 4 & 5 star players the "Big Schools" have, good talent but not yet best. USC has 9 5 stars that will never happen in the state of Utah with all the schools combined!!! So, play the games and see who wins the most, it's that simple.

  • Who am I sir? Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 1, 2013 6:04 p.m.

    @ tators and McNasty

    MY BAD! Thank you for correcting me. (That shows how much I follow independence!) I take pride in being able to support my claims - it truly is not often I have been found to make such a basic and erroneous mistake. Please follow my post and see if I can live up to this last statement.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 1, 2013 7:06 p.m.

    Tators
    Hyrum, UT
    To WACPaddingOurSchedule:

    If college football fans were really turning their channels after finding a BYU football game on, do you really think ESPN would've given them a long, financial rewarding 8 year contract? No, they most definitely would not have. They are much smarter than that. And perhaps even more-so than some Ute commenters.

    It's pretty obvious that ESPN has the means and resources to know more of what it is that football fans like to watch more than you do. And it's also pretty obvious that on a national level, BYU must be somewhat in demand. The proof is in the pudding... I mean in the contract.

    _______

    There is only so much that ESPN can do to protect its experimental investment with BYU. Especially since they have conference contracts, don't wan't to upset them by way of TV scheduling. If ESPN thinks a lot of BYU as you claim, why is BYU not showcased every Saturday night during prime time?
    Its because schools like Alabama, LSU, USC, Michigan and others get higher viewer ratings.

  • BlueCoug Orem, UT
    July 1, 2013 7:33 p.m.

    "If ESPN thinks a lot of BYU as you claim, why is BYU not showcased every Saturday night during prime time?"

    Be careful what you wish for.

    Already announced (and it's only July 1st):

    Sat, Sept 7, Texas at BYU, 7:00 PM ET ESPN2
    Fri, Oct 25, BSU at BYU, 8:00 PM ET ESPN

    Compare that to:

    Sat, Sept 14, Oregon State at Utah, 10:00 PM ET FOX Sports 1
    Thu, Oct 3, UCLA at Utah, 10:00 PM ET FOX Sports 1

  • MacNasty Rexburg, ID
    July 1, 2013 9:46 p.m.

    Re: Who am I sir @ 6:04 pm

    Thank you for your admission of your error; most trolls would not do that.

    I have a good suggestion, why don't you stop trolling BYU articles. I don't troll Ute articles and probably never will, but I find I have enough to say sticking to BYU articles.

    If you just comment on Ute articles, I believe both of us will be happier.

  • Whoa Nellie American Fork, UT
    July 1, 2013 10:14 p.m.

    paddywac,
    Yet BYU still has a contract with ESPN, a contract that does not include the word "experimental". Regardless of the date and time, BYU is still on national TV, except when they have to play a MWC team at their location.

  • JustTheTruthMan bountiful, ut
    July 2, 2013 12:34 a.m.

    2 for 1 is not as bad as the delusional would like to project it as. Which is truly better? Being part of someone's schedule by conference affiliated force or because they want to play the brand? Is it better to ... blah blah blah, I'm rambling. Bottom line is that I am looking forward to the years 2019, 2021, and 2023 as we will have even more compelling head to head balance to fight each other about... And so we have to go to the collesium twice after playing host first... So during the next 10 years two games are in Arizona to one in LES... Whoopty doo man! I mean seriously... The fights brought to the battle ground are petty at best and insolent in truth! Get the best possible schedule possible and go out and win... Win every game! That is the goal for any team worth cheering for... Not some measly conference affiliation!

  • JustTheTruthMan bountiful, ut
    July 2, 2013 12:43 a.m.

    While ND is in the ACC it is only for olympic sports. They still RETAIN their INDEPENDENT football status while being helped in the scheduling department with 5 ACC teams a year... and ACC whoopty doo! Yes, it was BCS during an era where those three nefarious letters 'meant something' but really didn't bring much meat to the potatoes of the 'system' in the championship game.... Will we within the next 5 months witness final acceptance from BCS land that it was the SEC and then every other swinging sally out there? No, we won't... Because pride is the root of all evil. :)

  • poyman Lincoln City, OR
    July 2, 2013 1:03 a.m.

    All of this comes down to money... Some schools need an AQ conference because they need to offset the taxpayer money they get to cover the cost of their athletic programs... And even then some fall short...

    Some are caught with substandard facilities, low gate receipts, and without enough revenue to bring them up to a competitive level... As a result, those schools will change just about anything just so they can be accepted by an AQ conference and some AQ conferences are more lucrative than others...

    If a school already has great facilities and has large gate receipts plus a strong national draw, then belonging to an AQ conference may not be as important... At least from a money stand point it is not, and as a result they really don't have to give up as much in tradition principals... They will be fine financially because their athletic programs probably pay for themselves... Notre Dame would be an example, and I'm sure their is a couple of others...

    Once the finances are taken care of all you have to do is worry about scheduling and reputation... And having the 15th best FB program is also probably enough.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 2, 2013 8:22 a.m.

    Tators:

    "If Utah recruits are so much better than BYU and USU, exactly why is it that Utah finishes dead last of those 3 schools at end of the year national rankings?"

    Because those rankings are subjective and based primarily on W/L records. And since the Indy-WACers SOS is so weak, they subsequently win more games. Polls are conducted for the purpose of deciding who the best teams are since obviously, they can't all play each other. But for as long as Utah plays our Indy-WACey little brother, there can be no question as to who is the better team. And since Utah keeps beating you, we're the better team.

    The Indy-WACers outrecruited the Utes only 3 times these past dozen years. And they won only 3 games. Over that same time frame, the Aggies were outrecruited EVERY year, and they won only once....and just barely. If you REALLY want to take the position that recruiting rankings don't really matter, then please explain why the team with the superior recruits is 16-4 (.800) against those other two.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 2, 2013 1:13 p.m.

    @Naval Vet "If you REALLY want to take the position that recruiting rankings don't really matter, then please explain why the team with the superior recruits is 16-4 (.800) against those other two."

    I don't understand...Notre Dame has out-recruited Boston College every year except one since 2002 (according to Rivals, your favorite recruiting site). Yet BC has won 6 out the last 10, including 6 in a row during a time when Notre Dame dominated them in recruiting.

    How in the heck did THAT happen, since Notre Dame was obviously the better team and getting better recruits?

    Fortunately, you explained that the finals polls are subjective, hence the discrepancy in why Utah has finished behind BYU in the polls for 3 of the last 4 years.. It's a good think that recruiting databases aren't subjective at all, or else we'd be in serious trouble and wouldn't know how to explain such crazy anomalies as the BC/Notre Dame series (roll my eyes).

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 2, 2013 1:19 p.m.

    @Naval Vet

    It's also interesting that when BYU finished beating Utah 3 out of 4 times back in 2009, Utah had out-recruited them every year but one during that streak.

    So I'm not really sure what your point about recruiting is. Utah definitely has scoreboard, but has it really been because of a huge discrepancy of talent? Local media here in Utah (Jake Scott and Tony Parks) were talking about how Utah beating BYU was a big upset last year, and that BYU lost the game rather than Utah winning it.

    Doesn't sound like they thought Utah was more talented.

    BYU has given Utah the rivalry game on a silver platter in two of the last three years. That's cool, because that's how rivalries go, and most games come down to one or two plays. That's what makes it awesome! It'll be sad to see it go away for a couple of years, though hopefully it will give us a break from trolls like yourself, so there is that to look forward to :)

    Go Cougars!

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 2, 2013 3:08 p.m.

    trueIndyWACer1:

    The BC-Notre Dame series was more likely some anomolous exception to the rule. Just look at the turnover in coaches at Notre Dame during that time span. This scenerio does not apply similarly to the recruiting amid the Utah schools since the only school to change coaches was Utah St.

    "It's also interesting that when BYU finished beating Utah 3 out of 4 times back in 2009, Utah had out-recruited them every year but one during that streak."

    Not quite little brother. You all outrecruited the Utes in 2: 2004 and 2007. The majority of your starters are Juniors and Seniors with missions and/or redshirt years. That basically puts the majority of those 2009 athletes in the 2003 and 2004 recruit classes.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 2, 2013 3:31 p.m.

    trueIndyWACer1:

    "Local media here in Utah (Jake Scott and Tony Parks) were talking about how Utah beating BYU was a big upset last year, and that BYU lost the game rather than Utah winning it...Doesn't sound like they thought Utah was more talented."

    It doesn't matter what Scott and Parks "think". The game happened. We won. In fact, that game was won by the 3rd Qtr.

    "BYU has given Utah the rivalry game on a silver platter in two of the last three years."

    Not so little brother. The Indy-WACers aren't in the business of gifting ANYTHING. In fact, the reason why you all were the most hated team in the WAC/MWC was because you all weren't "team players". You were all in it for yourselves. Utah won those games because we were the better team. And one of the reasons why we were the better team was because we have superior athletes (with more "stars"), and superior coaches. And while the Band of Little Brother upgraded their coaching staff by adding Anae and dumping Doman, Utah ALSO upgraded OUR coaching staff by adding Erickson and KEEPING Johnson.

  • STuFOO Korea, AE
    July 2, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    Navel,

    "In fact, that game was won by the 3rd Qtr."

    What game were you watching?

    That must be why the u fans rushed the field when the third quarter ended.

    I am going to love your absence when BYU beats utah this year.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 2, 2013 5:16 p.m.

    @NavalVet "The BC-Notre Dame series was more likely some anomolous exception to the rule. Just look at the turnover in coaches at Notre Dame during that time span."

    Oh, of course, the classic "anomolous (sic) exception" fallback. Nice try, Naval Vet. What does turnover in coaching have to do with anything? According to you, recruiting rankings have a direct correlation to one team's success against another. The team that is ranked higher should win the majority of the time. But that didn't hold true with BC and Notre Dame, nor with BSU/Oklahoma, BYU/Oklahoma, Utah/Alabama, Appalachian St/Michigan, etc.

    And again, the only reason BYU hasn't won 5 of 7 against Utah is because of a blown call from the refs in 2010 (not to mention a bunch of other fluke plays) and an unforced error by BYU last year (botched snap returned for a TD).

    Nothing to do with talent.

    If recruiting rankings determined success on the field, then Alabama wouldn't have been national champs 3 years in a row and Wisconsin wouldn't have been to the Rose Bowl 3 years in a row either.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 2, 2013 5:23 p.m.

    @NavalVet "You all outrecruited the Utes in 2: 2004 and 2007. The majority of your starters are Juniors and Seniors with missions and/or redshirt years. That basically puts the majority of those 2009 athletes in the 2003 and 2004 recruit classes."

    Okay, so using your logic, the majority of Utah's starters are juniors and seniors who don't have missions to worry about, which means the majority of their players in 2009 were from the 2005 or 2006 classes, both of which rank higher than BYU's class in 2004.

    Nice spin job, Naval, but your argument just got blown up.

    I think it's ironic that you call final polls subjective, but say nothing about the subjectivity of recruiting databases when each one of those varies wildly from the other.

    Example: Isaiah Nacua for BYU is rated as a 3 star prospect, 25th ranked in his position by Rivals, a 3 star prospect, 65th ranked at his position by Scout, and a 4 star prospect, 27th ranked in his position.

    So who's right?

    Just something for you to ponder.

    Go Cougars!

  • let's roll LEHI, UT
    July 2, 2013 8:54 p.m.

    The ironic part of this discussion is that the same posters who believe so strongly that a higher ranked recruiting class means you have the better team also believe that Utah is going to eventually have success in the PAC-12.

    Utah is near the bottom in PAC-12 recruiting and also near the bottom in the standings.

    I have yet to see a viable roadmap for Utah to outrecruit those at the top of the conference (USC, Stanford, Oregon) or even those in the middle (Washington, Cal, UCLA, the Arizona schools).

    I'm all ears if someone has one, since I'd like to see Utah have success in the PAC-12. Obviously, "We play a PAC-12 schedule" isn't a recruiting advantage when you're recruiting against PAC-12 schools. So how does Utah move up in the recruiting battle?

    That said, you'd think Utah fans would be proponents of the fact that innovation, desire and good coaching can lead teams to success over those more "talented." If not, I'm afraid Utah is in for years of futility in the PAC-12.

  • Avalancheskier Fresno, CA
    July 2, 2013 11:52 p.m.

    The Scarlet "REDS" up on the Hill recruit the same kids as the "Y" does. Remember that the "REDS" were in the beginning before the world ever was!

    Those that have "ears to hear, let them hear"!

    The "BLUES" have the most unique opportunity next to their "OTHER" mentor in Independence, aka "The Irish"

    I can hear the whisper from the fields!!! "If you build it, they will come"

    And come they will, from sea to shining sea..... And even beyond the borders of this Great Country

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 3, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    trueIndyWACer:

    "And again, the only reason BYU hasn't won 5 of 7 against Utah is because of a blown call from the refs in 2010 (not to mention a bunch of other fluke plays) and an unforced error by BYU last year (botched snap returned for a TD)...Nothing to do with talent."

    Nothing to do with talent? Who is more prone to producing "unforced errors"? The athlete with MORE talent, or the athlete with LESS? Furthermore, all that "unforced error" talk has been way overstated. It's really more of an excuse because you can't admit it when you're wrong, or when you're not the better team. Take that 1st TD in the 2011 game that you all like to call "unforced". After the Center snapped the ball over Heaps' head, who recovered the fumble?

    Indy-WACers would like to say Derrick Shelby, but the answer was actually Jake Heaps. Shelby recovered Heaps' fumble. And that WAS forced. Heaps could've fallen on the ball, or taken the sack, but instead, he panicked -- due to the pressure "forced" by our Defense!

    You keep losing because we've been the better team. Period. "Unforced errors" is just a weak excuse.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    July 3, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    @ MacNasty

    "FYI: Last year the Cougs had 10 games nationally televised, your Utes 1. Conference bottom dwellers indeed get little national exposure and attention."

    Last season:

    Utah vs. USU - ESPN2
    Utah vs. BYU - ESPN2
    Utah vs. USC - ESPN
    Utah vs, UCLA - Fox
    Utah vs. Oregon St. - ESPN2
    Utah vs. Arizona - ESPNU

    The rest of the games could be found on the PAC-12 newtworks or FX. Congrats on being 100% wrong.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 3, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    trueIndyWACer1:

    "...the majority of Utah's starters are juniors and seniors who don't have missions to worry about,...Nice spin job, Naval, but your argument just got blown up."

    Utah's players don't go on missions? Somebody better tell all those RMs in those 2 classes that they didn't really go.

    Nice spin job trueIndyWACer, but YOUR argument just got blown up.

    "I think it's ironic that you call final polls subjective, but say nothing about the subjectivity of recruiting databases when each one of those varies wildly from the other."

    How does reporting a 16-4 record against our other 2 instate FBS opponents NOT support that THOSE reankings reflect substantial validity? That's a lot of games there. Did Utah go 16-4 vs. teams like Michigan and Alabama? No. And notice that I didn't say that we went 20-0, or 16-0. Having superior recruiting classes doesn't "guarantee" victory. But it DOES impact greatly the outcome of the game. Better athletes (more "stars") = better record vs. inferior athletes (fewer "stars"). You can't effectively argue against it, so you're desperately tossing out all kinds of red herrings.

    But logical fallacies don't work on me. Epic fail.

  • AZUTE1 Mesa, AZ
    July 3, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    "Example: Isaiah Nacua for BYU is rated as a 3 star prospect...."

    Per Scout, Isaiah Nacua is de-committed from 2-Star byu.

    @ Naval Vet--

    That snap returned for a TD by Lee last September was 100% forced. When Star lined-up directly over C at NG, 2-Star byu's C immediately forgot about his responsibility of cleaning snapping the ball back and, instead, focused 100% on how in the world he'd survive to play another down. I witnessed this repeatedly throughout Star's career, as this C immediately became terrified/frantic/emotional, just like all of the others did. Look at the emotional-mess USC's Stud C Holmes became, for instance, as he attempted in vain to play Star straight-up, which immediately resulted in UTAH going-up, 14-0, before the USC coaches wised-up and gave him mandatory help.

    No, that bad snap was 100% forced by Star's mere presence, unequivocally!

    Also, UTAH forced 4 of the 7 TOs by 2-Star byu in 2011. There's a video online, in which all 7 TOs are analyzed, for all to view. This, too, is unequivocal! 44-PTS just simply can't be Spun-away!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 3, 2013 11:32 a.m.

    @NavalVet "How does reporting a 16-4 record against our other 2 instate FBS opponents NOT support that THOSE reankings reflect substantial validity?"

    Because it can be explained away as being an "anomalous exception", much like Boston College's record against Notre Dame over the past 10 years is to you. BYU was horrible back when you went on a 4 game run during the Crowton years, there's no denying that. But the 5-3 record against BYU that U have now could easily be 3-5 but for a blown call by the refs and an unforced error by BYU.

    U seem to think that there is a vast disparity in talent between the two schools which has led to Utah being up in the series. I would disagree. I don't think there was a vast disparity in talent when BYU took 3 out of 4 a few years ago against Utah.

    I will concur with U that the one thing Utah has been better than BYU at the last few years is recovering our unforced fumbles. Your "superior" talent has granted U that, lol.

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 3, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    @NavalVet "Utah's players don't go on missions? Somebody better tell all those RMs in those 2 classes that they didn't really go."

    Again, nice spin job. Why don't U do me favor? Go back to that 2009 game and list all of the starters at Utah that went on missions that would have been seniors that year (or in other words, all of the kids from the 2004 recruiting class for Utah)?

    Then do the same for BYU. I'll be fascinated to see your results.

    @AZUTE1 "Per Scout, Isaiah Nacua is de-committed from 2-Star byu."

    Per Rivals and ESPN, he's still committed.

    Which again begs the questions: which one of these recruiting services is right? I would venture to guess that it's the one that casts your school in the best light. And how are the final polls (AP, Coaches, BCS, Sagarin) all subjective, while recruiting services aren't?

    Just curious :)

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 3, 2013 11:41 a.m.

    @AZUTE1, Naval Vet, other Ute trolls

    Once again, the fact that U come onto BYU boards and are constantly comparing yourselves to BYU tells me all I need to know about U, and about Utah.

    Fun little factoid: there were two universities last year in the PAC 12 that finished 9th or worse in the conference in football, basketball, AND baseball: Washington St and Utah.

    That's just sad. How does it feel to know that your program is the same caliber as Wazzu?

    The fact that BYU football has lost 3 in a row to a program of that caliber is pathetic.

    It's even MORE pathetic that Utah IS a program of that caliber.

    No wonder you're here on the BYU boards...not a whole lot to cheer about over on the Utah side (unless you're into swimming program scandals and recruits switching commitments).

    Stay classy, fellas. And keep using BYU as your metric of success, it's extremely flattering and cute :)

    Go Cougars!

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 3, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    @NavalVet "Indy-WACers would like to say Derrick Shelby, but the answer was actually Jake Heaps. Shelby recovered Heaps' fumble. And that WAS forced. Heaps could've fallen on the ball, or taken the sack, but instead, he panicked -- due to the pressure "forced" by our Defense!"

    Which, again, I find ironic, since Jake Heaps was a "5-star" recruit, and Shelby was a "2-star" recruit. Shouldn't the higher ranked player with superior talent (supposedly) have won out in that situation? Shouldn't he have been able to fall on the ball, or scoop it up and thrown it out-of-bounds easily with just a lowly 2-star D-end bearing down on him?

    I'm so confused...

    Lol :)

    Congrats on beating the "lowly, indyWACers" 3 times in a row. I don't know if it's pathetic or funny that you demean BYU for being such a lowly, indyWACer team and in the same breath beat your chest about "3 in a row, and 8 of 11" over the Cougs.

    Hilarious!

    Go Cougars!

  • Spokane Ute Spokane, WA
    July 3, 2013 3:57 p.m.

    @truecoug

    Take a deep breath before you blow a gasket!

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    July 3, 2013 4:16 p.m.

    @NavalVet:

    You're a true Blue BYU fan.

  • truecoug1 Provo, UT
    July 4, 2013 5:30 p.m.

    @SpokaneUte "Take a deep breath before you blow a gasket!"

    ? I'm not blowing a gasket. It's the summertime, I was bored, and I decided to trash talk with some trolls on BYU articles. It's all in good fun, as I'm assuming your comment was, too :)

    If it wasn't, then don't take things so seriously. Just relax, and enjoy the playful banter...you'll be a lot happier :)

    Go Cougars!

  • idaho cougar fan Twin Falls, ID
    July 5, 2013 11:35 p.m.

    let's roll

    LEHI, UT

    The ironic part of this discussion is that the same posters who believe so strongly that a higher ranked recruiting class means you have the better team also believe that Utah is going to eventually have success in the PAC-12.

    Utah is near the bottom in PAC-12 recruiting and also near the bottom in the standings.

    I have yet to see a viable roadmap for Utah to outrecruit those at the top of the conference (USC, Stanford, Oregon) or even those in the middle (Washington, Cal, UCLA, the Arizona schools).

    I'm all ears if someone has one, since I'd like to see Utah have success in the PAC-12. Obviously, "We play a PAC-12 schedule" isn't a recruiting advantage when you're recruiting against PAC-12 schools. So how does Utah move up in the recruiting battle?

    That said, you'd think Utah fans would be proponents of the fact that innovation, desire and good coaching can lead teams to success over those more "talented." If not, I'm afraid Utah is in for years of futility in the PAC-12.

    I said that 2 years ago! Utah = forgotten!