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Letters: Common Core controlling

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  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    June 23, 2013 7:16 a.m.

    So really, what are you worried about. I see a lot of hubbub about this, but no real concrete reason the Common Core is bad. Sex Ed for example, we teach kids about sex, are you worried about this? If so lets here some specifics. I'm not for or against Common Core, because there hasn't been one article in the Deseret News that accurately explains it.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 23, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Anyone else find it interesting that LITERALLY everyone who has written in against the CC and had their letters published by the Dnews are all mutual friends? Anyone else find that amusing?

    Not only that, but these folks belong to the same anti-public education groups who promote school vouchers? Vouchers were rejected by the vast majority of Utahns and yet these folks still want to jam them down our throats.

    The mere fact that the vast majority of those writing in against the CC belong to the John Birch Society, should tell you all you need to know.

    In fact, 3 years ago, these very same folks created a disturbance in Alpine School District:

    "A mural at the district offices with the wording "Enculturating the Young in a Social and Political Democracy" now is drawing criticism, as well as the mission statement: "Educating all students to ensure the future of our democracy."

    "The district is pushing a dangerous, progressive agenda," said Susan Schnell, a Highland parent"

    The district is pushing a dangerous progressive agenda?

    Folks, please ignore the vocal minority. They are merely just static trying to stir the pot once again.

    Support the CC. It improves education.

  • Chuck E. Racer Lehi, UT
    June 23, 2013 9:04 a.m.

    The problem is how CC forms a catalyst for the socialistic plans of the current administration. By having CC in place, political power groups can take control of our children's education, just as the Obama Administration is demonstrating.

    Ezra T. Benson said this: "The best way to prevent a political faction or any small group of people from capturing control of the nation's educational system is to keep it decentralized into small local units, each with its own board of education and superintendent. This may not be as efficient as one giant super educational system (although bigness is not necessarily efficient, either) but it is far more safe. There are other factors, too, in favor of local and independent school systems. First, they are more responsive to the needs and wishes of the parents and the community. The door to the school superintendent's office is usually open to any parent who wishes to make his views known. But the average citizen would be hard pressed to obtain more than a form letter reply from the national Commissioner of Education in Washington, D.C."

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    June 23, 2013 10:09 a.m.

    Actually David Cox is One Of The most Critical Voices Against Vouchers. As A Legislator He Constantly Opposed Them. And In Truth Vouchers Are Just As Bad As CC.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 23, 2013 10:42 a.m.

    Folks, the same people who were pro vouchers, anti-sex edu, and now anti-CC.

    These folks will find a communist takeover in everything! They're part of the John Birch Society!

    What does one do when a bully comes around? Give them the attention they seek? Or ignore the very vocal minority?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 23, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    One comment reads: "How do you get a middle ground nationally between the socialistic, historical revisionists and the strict constitutionalists? And what about the environment and sex ed.?"

    How about a short edit to read: ". . . middle ground nationally between the conservative extremism of the historical revisionists on the Texas textbook committee . . . " (Texas, remember, buys so many textbooks that they can dictate content to publishers. Do some research and learn what they pushed onto all of us a year or so ago.)

    As for environment, who will write those standards? Mike Noel maybe?

    And will Gayle Ruzika write the standards for sex ed?

  • The Hammer lehi, utah
    June 23, 2013 12:02 p.m.

    Using Political IdeologuesTo Write Curriculum Is Exactly What We DonT Want. That Is Why Common Core Is Bsd News. It Will Be Far To Easy To Appoint Extremists From Either Spectrum With National Standards Like Cc. Local Control Vs National control Is The Argument Here. Lets Keep Education Local And Avoid Extremists From Running Our Schools.

  • Oak Highland, UT
    June 23, 2013 12:39 p.m.

    Hey Maverick, David Cox is a public school teacher. He taught for years in Alpine School District, most recently in a charter school, and recently retired to go teach in China. Hardly an anti-public ed voice.

    On national sex ed standards, you can read what's coming if you Google for this document: "National Sexuality Education Standards - Core Content and Skills, K-12". 5th graders are going to have quite a sex ed experience. Oh, and they're written by Planned Parenthood so you know you can trust them...

    As for Texas curriculum, are you upset that they are including Hillary Clinton's accomplishments in studying history, or that they talk about the Venona papers that helped exonerate McCarthy as being correct? The fact that Texas is teaching real events from original source documents shouldn't scare people, unless you're a progressive.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 23, 2013 4:17 p.m.

    @ Oak

    I am familiar with you and your ilk. And it's ironic that you would bring up teaching REAL events and refrain from using fear. Like when you tried to "fear" people into believing that Alpine School District was trying to "brainwash" our children.

    "On national sex ed standards, you can read what's coming if you Google for this document..."

    Thank goodness! This is long overdue! This very paper (hardly what you would call a "liberal" source) reported in May 2009 that:

    "the Utah Department of Health shows the number of chlamydia cases rose 50 percent in the past five years"

    and

    "The number of gonorrhea cases doubled during the same five-year period"

    Obviously, something needs to be done! More awareness, knowledge, and better education. As D&C states, "we cannot be saved in ignorance." So why not educate our children and allow them to make their own choices? Or do you intend to take that away from them too?

    The state of Utah is tired of small but very vocal special interest groups like Gayle Ruzika and Oak Norton who are using education as a way to sell their kool-aid. Sorry Oak, but we aren't buying!

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    June 23, 2013 4:48 p.m.

    @ Oak

    It's ironic that you would bring up teaching REAL events and refrain from using fear. Like when you tried to "scare" people into believing that Alpine School District was trying to "brainwash" our children. You were defeated and you will be defeated again.

    "On national sex ed standards, you can read what's coming if you Google for this document..."

    Thank goodness! This is long overdue! This very paper (hardly what you would call a "liberal" source) reported in May 2009 that:

    "the Utah Department of Health shows the number of chlamydia cases rose 50 percent in the past five years"

    and

    "The number of gonorrhea cases doubled during the same five-year period"

    Obviously, something needs to be done! More awareness, knowledge, and better education. As D&C states, "we cannot be saved in ignorance." So why not educate our children and allow them to make their own choices? Or do you intend to take that away from them too?

    The state of Utah is growing tired of small but very vocal special interest groups like Gayle Ruzika and Oak Norton who are using education as a way to sell their very radical and bitter kool-aid. Sorry Oak!

  • JMT Springville, UT
    June 23, 2013 5:39 p.m.

    Dave Cox was a state legislator from Lehi who was aggressively targeted for defeat by the Eagle Forum. He is no John Bircher. It should also be noted that Diane Ravich, noted education historian from NYU, and an adamant opponent of vouchers, charters, Race To The Top, etc is leading a charge from "the left" in opposition to CC. Dr Ravich designed and crafted No Child Left Behind for President Bush and later came to regret it. She compliments the teachers union every chance she gets.

    The "left," "right" and "middle" are finding common ground with concerns for CC.

    One politician I spoke with stated CC is the Obamacare for Education. I agree.

  • Bob Dobbs Salt Lake City USA, UT
    June 24, 2013 4:25 a.m.

    @ Oak,
    Progressives? Let's start calling these folks by the term that really describes them: Extreme Leftists or radical Liberals (Yes they're very liberal with other people's money). The Leftists have mastered the technique of manipulating or guiding the course of the political dialogue. They have adopted the term "progressive" which they are not in any good way.

  • Hamath Omaha, NE
    June 24, 2013 4:43 a.m.

    This article is misleading. There are two companies currently that are writing tests for the Common Core. They are NOT the common core and states can chose to not use them. Other companies can, if they chose, write their own questions for the CC. I believe the CC has recommended these two companies, but the CC is an advisory board. They can't force any individual state to adopt their curriculum, nor can they, once a state has adopted it, force the state to evaluate their progress using any particular testing companies products.

  • Chuck E. Racer Lehi, UT
    June 24, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    If we have so much control over our "state" standards, as USOE refers to them, why are we "prohibited" from adding more than 15% (not that we would want to)? We are "prohibited" by copyright law. That's not what looks like "in control of our own standards" to me.

  • Grover Salt Lake City, UT
    June 24, 2013 11:49 a.m.

    I can't find any mention of the private company/copyright issue in any publication save right wing blogs. Left wing conspiracy of silence?? I doubt it.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 24, 2013 11:57 a.m.

    And Racer, whose "copyrights" are being protected?

    Textbook publishers, perhaps?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    June 24, 2013 12:03 p.m.

    I see that Oak is using a tried and true propaganda technique by suggesting that people Google the sex ed standards. He knows full well that most people will not do it, but will probably believe that they are something ugly.

    By all means, everyone. DO Google the standards "National Sexuality Education Standards - Core Content and Skills, K-12" and see what you find.

    It is NOT what Oak portrays. In fact, what is being taught in our fifth grade "maturity" classes right now is almost identical to what's found in the Common Core.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 24, 2013 12:32 p.m.

    To those who claim CC is better, you obviously don't have kids in school. My kids and my neighbor's kids struggle with the CC standards. My kids were at a school with high standards, but because of a move now go to a different school. The work they were doing before CC is not covered by the new standards for another year. The standards are quite literally dumbed down. On paper they sound better, but in practice do more harm than good.

    For example, under CC, spelling is not as important as writing stories and essays. I am sorry, but I think that kids should know how to spell before they are told to write essays.

    There are countless other examples of how CC looks good on paper, but unless you are tutoring those kids 1 on 1, it will prove to be bad for their education.

  • Eliot Santaquin, UT
    June 24, 2013 3:29 p.m.

    The Common Core is state standards for English language arts and mathematics. They do not contain standards for any other subject, including sex education. A multi-state effort led to the creation of science standards. Utah did not participate in writing the science standards and has not adopted them. The common core English and math standards were developed by a consortium of states sponsored by the National Governors Association and Council of Chief State School Officers. The standards are copyrighted but Utah was given a license to use any or all of the standards. There is no prohibition against inserting additional standards as each state sees fit. Utah does not participate in any of the multi-state testing consortia and will develop their own assessments. Thus, any additional standards the state inserts into their core will be tested. Utah has not received a dime of federal assistance as a result of their adoption of the common core. They have not incurred any federal obligations as a result of the adoption of the common core. The current presidential administration, including the federal department of education, had no involvement in writing the common core standards. I'm out of words.

  • tigger AMERICAN FORK, UT
    June 24, 2013 8:23 p.m.

    Most people who are against the CC seem to be affiliated with factions that I don't support or even feel comfortable with. I do not know much about it but judging from the people who are so vocal about it, I doubt I could stand with them on their side of the issue.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    June 25, 2013 8:29 a.m.

    To "tigger" I am not affiliated with any faction. I have seen first hand the damage and the poor quality of instruction that comes with Common Core. As I said before, it looks good on paper, but in practice is a failure. They push concepts at the wrong time, and essentially omit teaching the basics and ensuring that the base knowledge is there.

    Think back to your Jr. High school days and your Algebra class. No imagine teaching that same material to a 3rd grader who can barely add 2 digit numbers and is just learning to multiply and divide. Will they fail or succeed at learning Algebra?

    That is one of the many problems with Common Core.

  • 2nd lantern Payson, UT
    June 26, 2013 1:01 a.m.

    Hey, tigger....really? What percent is "most"? You know nothing of me, yet you judge me. Common Core opponents do not judge you, they discern potential problems over this education conglomeration that will affect their children. When a mother bear discerns a forest-fire she does not wait for the forest ranger to protect her young. My narrow sphere reveals busy people who do not have time to waste stirring the stew-pot of trouble. Others have serious health problems and could easily focus on personal needs. I have met a diverse group of men and women with sincere and legitimate issues over CC and feel they must not sit back and wait to see the indelible results of 10-15 years from now. Education molds young minds, we ought to be sure what the one-size-fits-all mold is. Also,for those folks without children, they ought to be up in arms at the tax money to be spent on CC, as no impact studies or cost analysis has been done. We want to free up Utah lands to pour more into education. Are we sure CC is what we want to gobble up that money?

  • 2nd lantern Payson, UT
    June 26, 2013 1:02 a.m.

    Hey, tigger....really? What percent is "most"? You know nothing of me, yet you judge me. Common Core opponents do not judge you, they discern potential problems over this education conglomeration that will affect their children. When a mother bear discerns a forest-fire she does not wait for the forest ranger to protect her young. My narrow sphere reveals busy people who do not have time to waste stirring the stew-pot of trouble. Others have serious health problems and could easily focus on personal needs. I have met a diverse group of men and women with sincere and legitimate issues over CC and feel they must not sit back and wait to see the indelible results of 10-15 years from now. Education molds young minds, we ought to be sure what the one-size-fits-all mold is. Also,for those folks without children, they ought to be up in arms at the tax money to be spent on CC, as no impact studies or cost analysis has been done. We want to free up Utah lands to pour more into education. Are we sure CC is what we want to gobble up that money?

  • Go West Taylorsville, UT
    June 26, 2013 8:47 a.m.

    I've studied both sides and have observed that those who are for CC use emotional arguments and resort to ridiculing the other side. And those in authority give hollow reassurances.

    Those who are against CC, use logical arguments based in historical fact.

    The Math CC curriculum is advanced in some ways, but below level in other ways compared to what we had before. So if it's not up to par with Singapore, why bother?

    Some of the Language Arts texts, even for early grades, are alarming. Marginalizing families and training children to use emotional arguments to manipulate others to support causes. Hello homeschool.