One of the principles of those wanting to gut the neighborhood election caucus
meeting and convention system we have in Utah, was this: " A system that
provides inherent advantages to those who are incumbent, wealthy or famous is
not acceptable."The problem is their proposals would do exactly
that.The Caucus System in Utah is the best way to make sure grass
roots movements can work over large amounts of money. It is the only way someone
with $100,000 can go against someone with $2,000,000 in election funds.There were about 120,000 republicans in Utah that went to the neighborhood
caucus elections in 2012 to elect the 4000 State Delegates. Add to those numbers
the democrats and the primary elections. Certainly the municipal elections
didn't do any better in voter representation.Bypassing the
Caucus / Convention System will NOT create more participation. There are 4000
state delegates that spend countless hours vetting candidates to be on the
ballot. They are selected by those that attend the neighborhood election caucus
meeting. You just have to attend.The current system does not protect
the incumbent, wealthy or famous. I think that is a good thing.
The 60% threshold to avoid a primary works, allowing a shot of a challenger to
eliminate an incumbent and yet requires a challenger to be a strong
candidate.Based on the state gop released stats since 2000 for state
wide or congressional races, at 60%, threshold to avoid a primary, 1/2 of
contested races went to primary. If at 2/3, 67% of contested races go to a
primary and at 70%, 70% of the races go to primary.70% would not
have helped Sen. Bennett in 2010. He was not in the top 2 coming out of
convention. In fact the more moderate Tim Bridgewater was selected by 57% of the
delegates in the last round. Mike Lee managed to get 43% and make it to a
primary. Sen. Bennett endorsed Tim Bridgewater during the primary, but with
voters ticked at TARP and ObamaCare, they went with Mike Lee.Sen.
Hatch just barely missed eliminating Dan Liljenquist by hitting just under the
60%, and Jason Chaffetz just missed eliminating Chris Cannon by hitting just
under 60%.The current system does not protect the incumbent, wealthy
or famous. I think that is a good thing.
Mona, We are a republic not a democracy. If you truly want a democracy may I
suggest you move to Russia? Also if you want a democracy you shouldn't have
a state representative, you should vote all decisions at the ballot box by the
The angry shouting extremists are in control.
Mona:If you want to change the system, you should do as the small
minority of extremists has done who control the current GOP - get organized.
Gayle Ruzicka has her phone tree. She has more power than nearly all of the
Legislators in our state, and they quiver at the hint she may mobilize her phone
tree.If you're not organized and capable of delivering
equivalent motivated numbers of like-minded voters, you're wasting your
emotion and energy in what will be a fruitless endeavor. I suspect
most Utahns agree with you, but if they don't show up and muscle out the
extremists, it doesn't matter if one Utahn agrees with you or 2 million.Power corrupts. Absolute power corrupts, absolutely. The
disproportionate power possessed by a active minority in the GOP won't go
quietly, without a struggle.
to one vote on May 27How else would Chaffetz & Lee get elected?
PendergastLee and Chaffetz won the party nominee in a primary. Lee only
got 43% of the delegate vote in the last round. Tim Bridgewater got 57%.
Breidgewater got Bennett endorsement for the primary. Lee still won.
If the caucus system was so wonderful and prevented big name, big business,
richie, career politicians from winning, then why is that ALL we have
representing us?Where are all the Joe Sixpacks? I don't see any
"average" joe representing us in our state or national delegation. Mike
Lee, Hatch, Chaffetz, Lockhart, Bramble, Stephansen, Herbert, etc all seem big
name rich etc to me.
Mona,That's the beauty of this system... IF enough people in your
neighborhood agree with you... you all vote and select the delegates you want
(whether it's because they commit to vote the way you want on this or ANY
issue). Another beautiful thing is... if nobody at the meeting
represents your point-of-view... you can volunteer youself, and IF enough people
want you to represent them at the convetion... you will be there representing
them. I think that's cool. I just have never got up the guts to
volunteer.Something to think about... How much say do you have to
pick who represents you at the DEMOCRAT Convention??? (hint... the answer is
ZERO). There is no citizesn involved selection process for the people who go
to the Democrat Convetion (where their primary candidates are selected).
Convention is made up of party-officials (career politicians).IF you
succeed in destroying Utah's caucus system... it won't be replaced
with a Primary to select the primary canidates. It will be replaced with a
convention like Democrats have (manned by career politicians, not popularly
elected delegates from all walks of life).
The Real MaverickYou asked, "If the caucus system was so wonderful and
prevented big name, big business, richie, career politicians from winning, then
why is that ALL we have representing us?"...I think you are
confused. What you described is exactly what Democrats have at THEIR
Convention. But nothing like the delegates at the Republican Convention.If you are honest about it... Who attends and votes at the Utah Democrat
Convention? (Hint... big business, richie, career politicians).Who
attends and votes at the REPUBLICAN Convention? My brother is a delegate
(he's an accountant). His son is a delegate from his neighborhood
(he's a software developer). My neighborhood selected 2. One was a
realator, the other was a school teacher. What's so terrible about
that?What say did I have in who represented me and my neighborhood
at the DEMOCRAT Convention??? (Hint, ZERO)I have never been asked
who I want representing me at the Democrat Convention. THAT's
terrible.Which group is more susceptible to coersion by richies,
career politicians, big business? The accountant, software guy, realator and
teacher? Or a convention of career Democrat big-wigs?
Go ahead. Have a tantrum. Try to turn this Republic into a mob controlled
Democracy. Demand that popular vote replace the Republic that we have. Tell
the founders how stupid they were for keeping the mobs from voting directly. After your tantrum's over, then get out your history book and look
at what happened to pure Democracies.
Mike RichardsSouth Jordan, Utah2:58 p.m. May 28, 2013**************"Go ahead. Have a tantrum. Try to turn this Republic
into a mob controlled Democracy. Demand that popular vote replace the Republic
that we have. Tell the founders how stupid they were for keeping the mobs from
voting directly."**************So, in your opinion, the
Citizens of the United States, as a whole, are a mob? That they(we) are the
great, unruly, unwashed masses, generally not competent to make decisions (read:
vote) regarding their(our) own governance??How very elitist of you.
Well, at least we have a (pseudo) omniscient one like yourself to look out for
us mere mortals . . .**************"After your
tantrum's over, then get out your history book and look at what happened to
pure Democracies."**************Oh, I don't know --
I'd say that Switzerland does pretty well for itself, for the most part.(Though, to be fair, there is really no real-world example of "pure
democracy", just like there is no real-world example of "pure
Yes and get rid of the senate filibuster as well. We do not need obstructionists
with minority radical agendas.