Once again we see the belief that a secretary should make as much as a brain
surgeon Fact: more women choose to be secretaries than menFact: more men choose to be brain surgeons than womenFact: job
differences account for nearly all the disparity between men's and
women's payNo, a female secretary should not make as much as a
male brain surgeon
Workers better unionize.Wait, R's hate that. Never mind...
"Once again we see the belief that a secretary should make as much as a
brain surgeon"Actually, it's the belief that a FEMALE
secretary should be paid as much as a MALE secretary and that a FEMALE brain
surgeon should be paid as much as the MALE brain surgeon. The 2 are doing the
same work at the same proficiency. So why should their pay be less because they
are female whose bosses have been sexists since the stone age?Let
their pay be equal!Amazing idea, right?Yet, it is
another idea which repubs are against. Funny, when repubs lose the
next Presidential election in 2016. They won't have to look very far as to
why they don't have women, young people, and minorities on their side.
There won't be any need to come up with some crazy commie "mainstream
media" conspiracy to be used as some excuse. Look at your OWN
From a recent Time Magazine article:It’s a galling and often
cited statistic: women make 77 (or 81, or 82) cents to a man’s dollar.
President Obama campaigned on it last year, announcing in an ad that
“women being paid 77 cents on the dollar for doing the same work as men
isn’t just unfair — it hurts families.” As the
article points out later on:"If you control for things like
college majors and occupations, the pay gap, or the discrepancy between
men’s and women’s earnings that can be attributed to bias and
discrimination, shrinks down to about one-third of its sizeIn other
words, 93 cents to the man’s dollar. Not 77 cents. Not 81 cents.
Ninety-three cents."Conclusion:Either this letter
writer was willfully deceitful by again throwing out the 77 cent claim or does
not even have a basic understanding of the US economy.Again, I
repeat:A brain surgeon SHOULD make more than a secretaryGame. Set. Match
I know that this does not fit into the popular narrative that some posters like
to push forward, but conclusions of a 2009 research report commissioned by the
Federal Dept. of labor..."In 2007, women accounted for 51
percent of all workers in the high-paying Management,professional, and related
occupations. They outnumbered men in such occupations as financial managers,
human resource managers, education administrators, medical and healthservices managers, and accountants and auditors.In 1970, the
median usual weekly earnings for women working full-time was only 62.1 percent
of those for men; by 2007, the raw wage gap had shrunk from 37.9 percent to just
21.5 percent.However,despite these gains the raw wage gap continues
to be used in misleading ways to advance public policy agendas without fully
explaining the reasons behind the gap."1 - A greater percentage
of women than men tend to work part-time. Part-time work tends to pay less than
full-time work. 2 - A greater percentage of women than men tend to
leave the labor force for child birth, child care and elder care.
3 - Some of the wage gap is explained by the percentage of women who were not in
the labor force during previous years, the age of women, and the number of
children in the home. 4 - Women, especially working mothers, tend to
value “family friendly” work place policies more than men. 5 - Some of the wage gap is explained by industry and occupation,
particularly, the percentage of women who work in the industry and occupation.
This 2009 Report goes into excruciating detail of the research and I
have only touched on the the conclusions.A 2010 analysis of Census
Bureau data showed that young, single women who’ve never had a child
actually earned 8% more than their male counterparts in most U.S. cities. The
findings seem to be driven by an ongoing trend: more and more women – now
more than men, in fact – are attending college and going on to relatively
high-paying professional careers.Does this mean that there are not
issues and problems to be addressed? No. But a
misrepresentation of the facts does nothing to help the dialog.
As has been pointed out, longevity in the work place is a large factor in the
equal pay discrepancy! It is a fact that women tend to work less years than men
for a variety of reasons.
In my previous employment I was often involved with the problems with workers
and their supervisors. When not otherwise occupied I would dream of
the time when workers didn’t have to come to work, didn’t have to
succeed on any thing but their own production, and discrimination of any sort
was gone. The supervisor would not even know the sex, age, race, or political
philosophy or even care about anything other than the product of the employee.
I think people should be free to make their own social world without
the threat of employment consequences.
Nobody with any brains is saying a secretary should make as much as a brain
surgeon. Those of us with brains are saying women shouldn't be paid less
for the same work and their often superior performance--just because they are
women. That is, to use a word that "conservatives" don't seem to
I have to admit that when I saw this headline I thought... What is this country
comming to (because I thought it was going to be some article about how the
GOVERNMENT deciding what fair pay is).Why should the GOVERNMENT be
deciding what employers pay?After reading I realised it was about
equal_pay for women. They should get equal pay for equal work. But who gets
to decide which employees are doing "equal work"? The Employer? Or
the Government?It just ERKS me to see Americans pushing for a
Government controled Pay "Fairness" act. Just sounds like such a
Marxist thing to do (trust the governmetn to decide what "Fair" pay is
for the people).It's just so hard to write LAWS that determine
what "Fair" is. Because as most adults know... all people don't
agree what "Fair" is. Especially if they have a vested interest (ie
they want the Women's vote, or the Hispanic vote, or the Gay vote... just
propose a law that increases their pay (or decreases their taxes) and you got
em!!!I just don't like the presidence it sets. Government
deciding and mandating what "Fair" pay is to employers.
Irony guy"Nobody with any brains is saying a secretary should
make as much as a brain surgeon"The letter writer(Drora Oren)
throws out the 77 percent number, which does not take into account differences
in pay between brain surgeons and secretaries.So yes, Drora is
suggesting it is wrong for a brain surgeon to make more than a secretary.Its not too difficult to understand, and yet liberals still have a hard
Attention. Attention to all you anti-government people. Who will speak out for
the rank and file middle class if not the government which is the only protector
we have left now that only 7 in 100 are union workers. You all base your
judgements on your limited experience so you think because your company has made
a point to be fair, (because of government and labor laws) that all will follow
suit. Well guess what? There is a major attempt by the real government to roll
back rules and regulations to pre 1900 levels and take all empowerment from the
98% and have created a wage gap that has now eclipsed even the 1920's. That
government are the multinationals and banks that control everything they do and
don't do in Washington. The irony, they have convinced you to do their
bidding and they are laughing at you behind your back.
ugottabkidnI'm not "anti-government". But I trust my boss
more than I do some beurocrat in Washington who doesn't even know me or
what I do to decide what my work is worth.Just because you
don't want the government deciding what we get paid... doesn't
neccesarily make you "Anti-Government".Political_rheotoric
and believing political_stereotypes is lame (labeling people
"anti-government" if they question anything the governmetn does, or
calling people "Socialist" if they approve of government social
programs, etc).We need to tone down the rhetoric and talk about the
ideas themselvs (not the people, or calling people names)."Fairness" is just not something I want to leave up to a Government
beurocrat to decide. If that makes me "anti-government"... then I guess
I'm guilty.What super_trust_worthy people would you put in
charge of the "Fairness" department in Washington? People like those
at the IRS? (who just proved hunman nature is to abuse that power)? Medicaid
people (again provably full of fraud). Do you think the "Fairness"
department won't eventually get taken over by fraud and graft? Ooops...
there I go being anti_government again.
I would have to say this, in the public sector women and men are on the same
exact pay scale...
As has already been noted, women typically work in jobs that pay less. Women
take time more off for children than men. Women work less hours and over-time
than men to support the children. Women work for more "family friendly"
employers, who most likely pay less. And, perhaps, women aren't as
aggressive as men in negotiating pay.I don't mean to be harsh,
but if there is a "problem" with this which results in women being paid
less than men, then the women are to "blame". Actually, I don't
blame women at all. I am glad that family is more important to them than
increasing their pay more. I applaud this. But let's don't force a law
when there really isn't a problem - there isn't a problem because
women choose this by their own freedom of choice. And the consequence of this
are that families benefit. If less pay results, then it is worth it. Let's
don't destroy this by passing some law that disrupts the free-market and
freedom of choice.
Why is it that republicans are being blamed for pay disparity? Our current
President pays the women of the White House less than the men are paid. Equal
pay is a good thing for equal output but the issue is not republican vs
democrat. As far as unions are concerned, they want equal pay for all so that
they can take it equally from everybody. Non-union workers today make as much
Chris B -- you have COMPLETELY missed a very important point. It's the
idea of equal pay for equal work.That's very important.No one is saying that a secretary should earn as much as brain
surgeon.But if a man and woman are both stocking shelves at WalMart,
shouldn't they be paid the same?Let me guess -- you're a
high school fan -- let's see some documentation for your ridiculous claim
of unequal pay in the White House.Can't find any?No
Conservatives would have some really great philosophical points, if we
didn't have 3000 years of recorded history showing us that women have been
Ok one old man. Here it is but I would have thought you knew this. In a report
dated April 11,2013 it was reported that the median average wage for women in
obama's whitehouse is $11,000.00 less than the average median wage for men.
Additionally, this figure is almost $2000 worse than two years earlier. In
addition, in case you wanted to know, by far most employees in the White House
are male, so not only do they not make as much, they don't get hired as
much. You have a computer, search it.
I have never personally worked anywhere; that I have found this urban legend to
be true. Everywhere I have ever worked; Women and men make the same money, for
the same job.Even had several bosses that were women.I am sure the
majority of people would say the same thing.So where do these surveys come