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Dan Liljenquist: Irresponsible states will lose jobs to the others

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  • george of the jungle goshen, UT
    May 9, 2013 6:21 a.m.

    How are you going to heat your home. That is a big issue to me. How far away do I have to drive to work. Will the wages keep up with inflation. Is property taxes increasing as the house decreases.

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    May 9, 2013 6:31 a.m.

    Yes, the recent Texas fertilizer explosion, limited regulatory oversight of the plant, and limited insurance of the plant required by the owners are all evidence of "responsible" business climate in Texas.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 9, 2013 6:51 a.m.

    Unintended Consequences

    Illinois and California have indeed been fiscally irresponsible almost unbelievably so. However going into their states and trying to take their companies makes their situations even worse. This has and will lead to out migrations from those states. When those people with teiir certain group think move into your state, it will lose its character, and it will become more like them.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 9, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    I think it is rather ironic this piece with the back drop of probably the biggest industrial accident in recent history happening in Texas, with many fingers pointing to lax controls and inspections by the state as key contributors to that horrific event. There has not been as great loss of life in an industrial accident in decades....

    I would think that just perhaps the state of Texas should pull back just a bit while it gets its own house in order. Obviously something went wrong. A town was devastated.... not just a singular business. When companies can put entire communities at risk, you have to wonder if the state is doing all it can to protect it citizens - its primary role.

    While we have a political uproar about events that happened in Libya, there seems to be little passion to find out what happened in Texas at the cost of all those lives.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    May 9, 2013 7:43 a.m.

    cjb: California is now doing just fine. And when they were struggling they had repub governors.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 9, 2013 8:11 a.m.

    Re Ernest T Bass

    California is now doing better? Good. The economy is improving.

    Any person, family state or nation who is so far in debt that it can get by only when the economy is running full steam really isn't doing that well though.

    Utah for the most part is out of debt. We don't fund continuing operations using debt. We have a rainy day fund.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    May 9, 2013 8:12 a.m.

    Yup -- no regulations. Explosions. A failing school system. The leader in executions -- many of which have been discovered to have been in error. A state school board that rewrites history and denies the possibility that evolution was part of creation.

    And much, much more.

    Yup.

    Texas. What a winning place to do business if all you care about is profit.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 9, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    If you examine unemployment rates you will find that there is not much correlation between unemployment rates and the political outlook of the particular states.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    May 9, 2013 8:42 a.m.

    I'll take utah's 4.9% unemployment over CA and Ill's 9+% any day of the week.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    May 9, 2013 8:51 a.m.

    Re:cjb

    Yes, CA has had some tough years. For example, the Enron debacle cost the state billions. Additionally, until 2011, the state constitution required 2/3 of the CA State Legislature to pass a state budget. Intransigence between the 2 parties made it impossible to effectively deal with the economic issues. Things are better as a result of cost-cutting, tax increases, and an improving economy. There is more work to be done.

    CA has many of the top public universities in the nation, which is one reason why it is attractive to businesses.

    What i want to know is how many jobs in UT do church donations fund?

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 9, 2013 8:59 a.m.

    Re Truthseeker

    You seem to think I am picking on California and you want to start a tussle. My purpose in mentioning California wasn't to put them down but to point out that getting into debt is unwise.

    I like California. Most of the time when we vacation, we go there. Take my criticism as constructive criticism. Your state will be even better if you will learn to avoid debt and live within your means.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    May 9, 2013 9:25 a.m.

    Baron Scarpia
    Logan, UT
    Yes, the recent Texas fertilizer explosion, limited regulatory oversight of the plant, and limited insurance of the plant required by the owners are all evidence of "responsible" business climate in Texas.

    6:31 a.m. May 9, 2013

    ==========

    Don't forget the BP oil spill out in the Gulf of Mexico.
    and Texas Congressman Joe Barton grobbling and apologizing to the BP Corporate heads for Americans being so "mean" and "angry" at them for the mess they made and the people that died....pathetic.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    May 9, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    BTW - Dan,

    Did it ever occur to you the reason Chicago, Illinois and California got in the trouble they did was because years ago - in order for them to swoon businesses to move THERE in the first place, THEY needed to lower their taxe rates and deregulate as much as possible?

    Over time, Texas [and Utah, if we follow suit] will end up being the next Illinois or California.
    In the red, not able to pay the bills, and having to increase taxes which were held too low, for too long.

    Used up, and Dried out.
    Corporations will just up and move to the next State that comes a sweet talking {bribing}.

    Businesses are all about making the most ($), and giving the least ($).

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    May 9, 2013 9:48 a.m.

    Re:cjb

    At the height of the recession, unilike most other states where the construction industry ground to a halt, and many lost their jobs, UT had several major construction projects going on in downtown SLC and in Provo.

    And, during the Olympics the federal govt invested more money in SLC than any other Olympics.

    Every year money i pay flows to UT.

    I asked a sincere and fair question.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    May 9, 2013 9:50 a.m.

    Until governments (city, state, and federal) get their pension obligations under control, they will continue to be burdened with promises that there is no way to keep.

    Governments have to adopt the same system as private companies..."come work for us and we will give you X dollars each year to help you fund your own retirement". You get to decide when there is enough in there to retire. No more guarantees of benefits. No more gaming the system so you can live extravagantly on the taxpayer's dime for 30+ years.

    Working for 15 or 20 years and being able to retire on 90% of your last year's salary for the rest of your life just doesn't work out mathematically. While I might personally love such a system at my company, I know such promises could never be kept and still keep the company in business.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    May 9, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Re Truthseeker

    Okay. The LDS Church had a major construction project going on during the recession in downtown SLC, this helped us as did the Olympics. Also the LDS church employes a lot of people in Utah. Granted you are correct. All states have their particular advantages though. In spite of this good fortune, the recession still took its toll on us.

    We were able to weather this storm better than we would have otherwise because of our debt policies and our rainy day fund.

    Personally I have experience something similar in my own life when I lost a good job. It hurt, but it hurt less than it otherwise would have because my house was paid for and I had savings and no debt.

    I did this by buying less house than I could afford, and living below my means and saving and investing the difference. This is a great way to live, I recommend it highly, for people and states, cities and nations.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    May 9, 2013 10:29 a.m.

    The claim that Dan makes just is not true. Businesses will go where they will spend the least amount on the environment, health care, and labor. After so many years of favorable legislation and booming record profits it is no longer financially viable for companies to comply with government regulation. Meaning, the penalties they pay are so small that it isn't worth it to them to protect their workers and community members. Just watch, this Texas company rolled the dice and it still might pay off as taxpayers rebuild that city and bail out that company.

    Theland which Dan lives in where companies are actually threatened is nothing more than a fantasy. Texas will continue to be unbelievably deregulated and workers will continue to pay the price. It is just too financially good for big CEOs. And they will make sure that legislators continue to do their bidding.

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    May 9, 2013 10:50 a.m.

    Ernest T. Bass, your name is from the 60s and so is your world view. California has been dominated by Democrats for years now, and none of this is Repbublican work. The Termanator tried to do something with propositions but was defeated by unions. Just today a report showed that the best economies in America are with Repbulican states and the basket cases are with Democrat states. Anyone who thinks California with highest taxes in the nation and biggest debt short of the Federal Governent is an example of good management should stay away from accounting as a profession.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    May 9, 2013 10:52 a.m.

    Ironic how Republicans say they know all about how businesses, politics and capitalism really worked...

    SOLD!, to the highest bidder!

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    May 9, 2013 11:12 a.m.

    @SCFan
    I hate to break it too you, but Arnold Schwarzenegger is a Republican, not a Democrat.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    May 9, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    "I hate to break it too you, but Arnold Schwarzenegger is a Republican, not a Democrat."

    Yes, Arnold had an R by his name, but he was very moderate. He was certainly farther left than some democrats.

    If all Republicans were like Arnold, the party would be hard to beat.

    We need moderates, both r and d

  • SCfan clearfield, UT
    May 9, 2013 11:35 a.m.

    Re: Noodlekaboodle

    That was my Point! When the Republican Schwarzenegger (thanks for the spelling by the way) was in office, he had absolutely no power do make change because of the Democrat dominance in the legislature and all of their powerful public employees unions. Now they have Brown back. Brown in case you're not old enough to remember, was the governor of Ca. back in the 70s. And from what I see, he has not learned one thing about financial responsibility in over 30 years. Oh, plus before becoming governor this time he was mayor of Oakland. What a success that was. With as many Democrats as there are in Ca. is this the best they can do? Maybe not.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    May 9, 2013 11:56 a.m.

    If high taxes are the key to success in State government, then why not raise taxes? Why not tax the companies that hire the people who pay income tax right out of business? Why not do just what California and Illinois are doing - tax the rich guy and give personal welfare to the everybody else?

    It's working so well for them!

    There's no crime in Illinois! They have gun laws to protect them.

    There's no "insurance salesmen" who "protect" your business - for a fee. That's just not possible.

    People in Chicago freely walk the streets at all hours of the day or night. Nobody fears for his life. Nobody takes drugs. No crime. No way!

    Of course the liberals would want us to ignore reality. Their fairy tales are all that count. They will never accept reality.

    The choice is very simple. With Illinois' high tax rate, companies can go to States like Texas or they can go offshore. Illinois doesn't want them.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    May 9, 2013 12:21 p.m.

    Perry did the same thing in California - recruiting companies to come to Texas. This is called capitalism. If you are building a home you pick the builder that can do the job you want for the least amount of money. Perry is simply saying to companies - come to Texas where the taxes and regulations are much less. Texas has alot too offer with low taxes and regulations, sunny weather, beaches , great colleges etc... California and Illinois are both liberal - socialist - stink holes that are drowning in debt and high taxes. I wouldn't be surprised to see alot of silicon valley companies move to Texas as California continues to die at the hands of Jerry Brown. A company isn't going to wait around and get taxed to death - at some point the company has to get back to profitability. New York City is also a place that is becoming more and more anti-business with the high taxes and other regulations. Basically - ANY liberal controlled state is dying and ANY conservative controlled state is growing and expanding. Hmmmm - is there a message here?

  • Sabrecat South Jordan, UT
    May 9, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    @Noodlekaboodle

    Yes the Governator was Republican, at least on paper. As SCFan also mentioned any reforms that he proposed through the proposition process was defeated by well heeled unions. The reason he had to try through propositions was because he had an openly hostile legislature the entire time he was in office.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    May 9, 2013 1:08 p.m.

    Come to Texas where safety and security match other civilized counties, like, say Bangladesh.

    Conservative Dreamland where low regulations, meet low wages and low taxes for corporations.
    "How low can ya go"

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    "Working for 15 or 20 years and being able to retire on 90% of your last year's salary for the rest of your life "

    Joe, what retirement system are you talking about. Because its not Utah's.

    Also, you talk about working until you can put enough money into an account to last you through retirement. For many people that would mean working until they die. But do you think a cop of a firefighter can really work into their seventies, or even their sixties? These guys, and gals, work in public services during their prime years. Years they could have been investing moving up the ladder in the private sector. A lot of these people would have done exceptionally well in the private sector. But they choose to serve the public. Usually with very little thanks.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    May 9, 2013 2:57 p.m.

    The reason that the progress of civilization is grinding to a halt is that business has outgrown it’s true purpose. We are entering a period like that of the “middle ages” where the rich and powerful milked the last dregs of wealth from the people and the only government was force.

    Unfortunately, because of the weapons of mass destruction in today’s world, there may not be a renaissance this time.

    The reasons that business would pick up and move is because of gifts of money or favors to reduce expense. In any case, it will be the taxpayers of the destination state who will pay the bill.

    However, it may be possible to forestall that fate if people would claim their right to control government and put business into it’s proper place.

    Business is the child of society. The purpose for it’s existence is the serve the society wherein it exists. Businessmen falsely claim that the purpose of business is a freedom the make some men rich. Business is not a freedom or right.

    Only people have rights and freedoms, not business, not religion, not any thing that is not human.

  • The Taxman Los Angeles, CA
    May 9, 2013 4:31 p.m.

    It is really amusing listening to some of you Utahans describe California and it's problems. Especially since you obviously know very little about California. California has been doing much better under Gov. Brown. It has a balanced budget and is paying down its debt. It has the best educational system (both college and high school) in the country and an economy to be emuluated and envied. And of course it is a "giver" state and not a "taker" state relying on the federal government to get by.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    May 9, 2013 6:06 p.m.

    "The choice is very simple. With Illinois' high tax rate, companies can go to States like Texas"- Richards

    "come to Texas where the taxes and regulations are much less. . . . California and Illinois are both liberal - socialist - stink holes that are drowning in debt and high taxes."- "patriot"

    Perhaps more significant, Illinois ranks relatively well among other Midwestern states, even after jacking up its income tax at the beginning of 2011. Iowa is lower at 8.5 percent, and Missouri just below at 9.2 percent. But higher are Minnesota (10 percent), Indiana (10.6 percent), Ohio (11.1 percent), Gov. Scott Walker's Wisconsin (11.3 percent) and Michigan (13.3 percent).

    Down in Texas, whose Gov. Rick Perry recently came up here ona rather bellicose corporate raiding mission, the total tax burden is a little lower than ours. But at 9.2 percent — compared to 9.6 percent in Illinois — the difference is what a good Texan might call a 'lil itty-bitty. -- GREG HINZ ON POLITICS, Surprise! Illinois biz taxes below average, study says

    Are you silly little conservatives just making stuff up again?

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    May 9, 2013 7:23 p.m.

    Texas has an income tax rate of 0%. Illinois has a flat tax rate of 5%.

    Dallas has a sales tax rate of 8.25%. Chicago has a sales tax rate of 9.25%.

    Cook County's property tax rate jumped 27% last year.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    May 9, 2013 8:56 p.m.

    "Basically - ANY liberal controlled state is dying and ANY conservative controlled state is growing and expanding."

    Really..... facts please.

    For example.... Utah is behind Massachusetts, Michigan and Oregon in GDP in annualized growth rate. Last I checked, those states are very blue... not red. In fact, Utah is tied with California, Washington, Connecticut, and the District of Columbia in annual year over year growth rate (2.5%). Add to that, of the 12 top states with the fastest growth rates, only 5 are Red states.

    Even if you look at 5 year numbers, Utah falls into the middle of the pack with other Blue states.

    So your claims.... are in fact..... false.

    I am not sure where you are getting your data... but it is not accurate.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    May 9, 2013 9:20 p.m.

    Utah is 24 billion dollars in debt. So much for the best managed state accolades.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    May 10, 2013 9:01 a.m.

    @J Thompson

    "Texas has an income tax rate of 0%. Illinois has a flat tax rate of 5%."

    Ask anyone in Texas what their property tax bill was last year.