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Survey: Utah Boy Scout leaders oppose BSA policy change

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  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    March 25, 2013 12:05 p.m.

    So 83% in Utah oppose homosexual scout masters while only 33% nationally? I would bet the national number is closer to 50% since alot of the Southern Christian-Protestant states (Georgia, Carolina's, etc..) oppose homosexuality. The 83% Utah number is most significant simply because the LDS churches heavy involvement in BSA. I think BSA understands the big picture now - they lose major funding and participation if they elect to allow homosexual scout masters. BSA would most likely die as an organization within a couple years...or be changed into something else.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    March 25, 2013 12:13 p.m.

    Our local scout leaders have a deformed conscience. If they think they can teach Scouts to be kind and fair and loyal to others while excluding boys who are "different," they are sadly mistaken. Bigotry does not belong in the Scout law.

  • PA Rock Man Allentown, PA
    March 25, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    BSA is not only at risk of losing funding and membership if they do allow homosexuals, but also if they don't. They are already losing big corporate sponsorships and members in many districts because of their current stance. That trend will accelerate if they reaffirm that policy. No matter what BSA does they are going to take a big hit so the BSA board might as well disregard everyone's opinion and just do the ethical thing. There is no path forward for the BSA where they don't upset a sizable portion of their membership and the public.

  • runnerguy50 Virginia Beach, Va
    March 25, 2013 12:34 p.m.

    I took the recent national poll and wish it were worded a little different. Any Scout who comes to the realization that he is gay should not be kicked out. Having said that I am not in favor of gay scoutmasters.

  • Andrew American Fork, UT
    March 25, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with an adult female? No (high risk)
    Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with a practicing homosexual male? No (high risk)
    Do I want my 12-15 year old son interacting with a pracitcing homosexual merit badge counselor? Fine with me as long as it is just a functional transaction. (low risk). Not complicated in my mind.

    FYI. Is not the Catholic church being excoriated (and paying heavy fines) for covering up pedofilia yet some that would critize that are willing to allow homosexuals to mentor youth on scouting trips? Hypocrisy. So who pays when(not if) homosexual scout leaders start abusing boys. I would assume the scout councils. If they pass this change, they better start putting aside alot more money for abuses than they have historically.

  • MiddleRight Orem, UT
    March 25, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    After hearing the questions being asked in the survey I am surprised it wasn't >90% in favor of the change... Those question were written to get a specific response. Sounds like they didn't get what they wanted here.

  • BYU_Aggie LOGAN, UT
    March 25, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    @Irony Guy:

    I agree that bigotry does not belong in the Scout Law, but unless they want to take out "morally straight" from the Scout Oath, the BSA needs to stick to this policy. Mind as well take out "do my duty to God" as well. My point is, if the scouts are going to profess to promoting moral values and faith in God, then this policy cannot change. No one is teaching the scouts to ridicule a homosexual child - just to see that homosexuality is still a moral choice.

  • BYU_Aggie LOGAN, UT
    March 25, 2013 12:57 p.m.

    @patriot:

    I'm very surprised that the Great Salt Lake council (Salt Lake City metro area) received this high of opposition. If this was done in the Utah National Parks Council (Utah Valley and south) or Trapper Trails (Ogden and north), we probably would have seen up in the 90% opposition range.

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:01 p.m.

    I'm one LDS member and long-time scouter that doesn't believe in exclusion from scouting based on sexual orientation.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:03 p.m.

    No kidding. Still, it's only a policy change. I doubt that there are a lot of (any?) potential gay scouts or leaders in utah anyway.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:05 p.m.

    I dont think my nieces should be camping with neighbor men.

    Similarly, not appropraite for a homosexual to be camping with young boys.

    this is all about commmon sense and protecting the boys.

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:07 p.m.

    Andrew,

    Do you know the difference between a pedophile and a gay person? Why do you think an adult female going on a camping trip with your son is a high risk? You need to look at the stats! The highest percentage of pedophiles are married men. Pedophilia is a crime of opporturnity and control. If a pedophile has the opportunity to be alone with a child (male or female), they want the control that they can exert over this child. It is much different than an adult that is attracted to another adult of the same or different sex.

    Catholics are being sued for having PEDOPHILES that abused boys and girls in their charges. Not for having homosexuals as their priests. If they were just homosexual, there were other homosexual priests that they would be attracted to.

    Please understand the difference or your children could be in danger. Do not give pedophiles the opportunity to be alone with them - whether they are heterosexual or homosexual. Learn and protect.

  • fish8 Vernal, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:10 p.m.

    The issue is: Is homosexuality a moral issue? If you feel it is, then BSA is justified in it's stand. Any organization has the right to follow their own moral beliefs without someone say that they want to join them, but they want them to change their moral beliefs to suit the person wanting to join.
    If homosexuality isn't a moral issue then majority rules as to what society will accept.

  • Vladhagen Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:12 p.m.

    I think we need to understand the difference between a person who is an active homosexual and a person who is attracted to someone of the same gender. The first should not be allowed in scouting, as such is a choice. The latter should be allowed in scouting, insofar as he does not actively promote or participate in homosexuality.

  • Markhorse DENAIR, CA
    March 25, 2013 1:12 p.m.

    As a member of the church how in good conscience can we deny a homosexual from leading or participating in scout activities? These brothers and sisters are kind,loving and good people who are loved by our Heavenly Father.Get over it people!

  • Lane Myer Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    I wonder what would have been the results if the LDS church had sent out a survey on whether or not we should allow gays to attend church and hold callings...My guess is that it would probably be about the same: 80% against.

    Luckily, the church made their decision without any consultation from the members and did what is loving, inclusive and right.

    I wonder what a young gay member who is living the gospel is supposed to do while all the other aaronic priesthood holders are scouting? Does anyone have an idea? He is being moral and truthful in telling his attractions, but the church has nothing for him nor any role models of how he should live his life. Sad.

  • VA Saint Chester, VA
    March 25, 2013 1:16 p.m.

    Why such a big deal? It is a private organization with high standards. Leave them alone.

  • Vladhagen Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    I think that this decision will place a lot of organizations in a difficult situation. If BSA allows active homosexuals to participate in scouting, would it come to the point where it is not just an issue of allowance, but an issue of forced acceptance? That is, for example, would churches that oppose homosexuality be forced to take on an active homosexual leader on the grounds of "equality?" It then becomes an issue of not just allowing homosexuals to participate in scouting, but moreover to dictate the entire operation of the organization.

  • Well.ok Lehi, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    Man I'd hate to be the teachers quorum advisor who when talking about and preparing for the weeks scout activity each week in church has to remind little Johnny that he's not invited simply because he's homosexual. Talk about making an already difficult situation even worse. Remember the church teaches us that being gay is not a choice and that only acting on it is a sin.

  • Itsme2 SLC, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:21 p.m.

    It's a shame that this is even a question. Homosexuality (or sexuality of any kind) should not play a part in the Boy Scouts. The motto is to do your duty to God and your country, as well as to be "morally straight." There's no place in the BSA for any other "alternative" type of behavior.

  • Say No to BO Mapleton, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    What a fascinating coincidence. The Supreme Court is hearing Prop 8 and suddenly dozens of elites are expressing support.
    Groups like BSA are forced into the debate and the long knives come out for anyone willing to stand up against the tide.
    For me the answer is still no. I suppose I can still believe that in America, right?

  • Carnak Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:36 p.m.

    Let me know what you decide and I will let you know if I keep contributing to the BSA.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 25, 2013 1:38 p.m.

    Message to gay scouts and scout leaders: You have 2 choices:
    1) you are not welcome to participate in the Scouting program.

    2) Hide who you are. Lie if necessary.

    A Scout is:
    Trustworthy, Loyal, Helpful, Friendly, Courteous, Kind, Obedient, Cheerful, Thrifty,
    Brave, Clean, Reverent

    Apparently not.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    March 25, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    Andrew said, "Do I want my 12-15 year old son to go on a camping trip with a practicing homosexual male? No (high risk)"

    According to Dr. Fred Berlin, a Johns Hopkins University professor who founded the National Institute for the Study, Prevention and Treatment of Sexual Trauma in Baltimore, Md., pedophilia is a distinct sexual orientation marked by persistent, sometimes exclusive, attraction to prepubescent children.

    The US Catholic Bishops commissioned a study on priestly child sex abuse from John Jay College and researcher Margaret Smith reported to the Bishops:

    "We do not find a connection between homosexual identity and the increased likelihood of subsequent abuse from the data that we have right now. In the book Mental Disorders of the New Millennium (2006), author and from the same study psychology professor Thomas Plante writes:

    "Although the majority of clergy abuse victims are males, homosexuality cannot be blamed. First, many of the pedophile priests report that they are not homosexual. This is also true of many non-clergy sex offenders who victimize boys... Sexual orientation is not predictive of sex crimes."
    cont.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    March 25, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    The BSA claims to be a diverse organization with this statement coming from their website: “Scouting is truly a melting pot. Scouts come from all walks of life, all types of family units, faiths, and racial and ethnic groups. The BSA respects the rights of people and groups who hold values that differ from those encompassed in the Scout Oath and Law, and aims to allow youth to live and learn as children and enjoy Scouting without immersing them in the politics of the day.”

    The scout leaders polled in the recent study mentioned don’t seem to hold these same values.

  • BYU Fan in DC Washington, DC
    March 25, 2013 1:50 p.m.

    epic fail for Utah again! How is that people can not see that gay men are not more sexual than heterosexual men? I know plenty of homosexual men who would be much more trustworthy with your sons that some of these scout masters out there right now.

    I have heard of plenty of scout masters caught for molestation of young men, none of them claim to be gay. Perversion is not a product of homosexuality, rather perversion is a product of ignorance to the fact that all men are sexual and the ones who no one thinks would do such a thing (heterosexuals with kids and a wife), end up being the ones that do such a thing.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 1:54 p.m.

    FACT:

    100% of men who have ever abused boys are either homosexuals or bisexuals. This is be definition.

    The BSA and much of the public is simply asking people to consider that the #1 priority is SCOUT SAFETY.

    Sadly we say from the Sandusky Penn State scandal how much damage one homosexual pedophile can do. The great majority of gay people are likely good people. However, just as most adult men are good people, that does not mean its a good idea for men to be camping with neighbor girls.

    Scout Safety is paramount here.

    Protect the boy scouts!

  • Don Bugg Prince Frederick, MD
    March 25, 2013 2:00 p.m.

    I'm not surprised, but I am disappointed, by the number of people here who are automatically equating "morally straight" with having no same-sex attraction. How does feeling attracted to members of one's own sex amount to a moral violation or a sin?

  • Luke.Bahr Orem, ut
    March 25, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    The BSA would be wise to leave it up to the individual chapters as to admitting gay members. However, it is a private institution so the BSA gets to make the choice.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:07 p.m.

    Re: "I have heard of plenty of scout masters caught for molestation of young men, none of them claim to be gay."

    Yeah -- I've heard of people doing time for burglary, shoplifting, embezzlement, etc. None of them claims to be a thief. But the issue sorta speaks for itself.

    The poster that spoke of not wanting her daughter to go camping with a male neighbor is correct. The Church also prohibits female scouters from camping with boys.

    There's a reason for that. And, it's not bigotry.

    Just as there is also a reason for having an organization that allows boys to be boys, learn important skills, and be instructed on being morally straight by those with some experience in the subject. Without having to worry about or be exposed to the shifting norms and nuances of sexual politics.

    If Scouting will no longer be that organization -- OK. It's a private organization that can choose its rules and bylaws.

    But it shouldn't expect the Church or other similarly-situated religious organizations to go along.

  • dustman Nampa, ID
    March 25, 2013 2:08 p.m.

    One day Utah will quit putting homosexuals in the same category as pedophiles. Pedophiles are predators looking for victims. All those past scout leaders that molested young boys, I bet they don't consider themselves homosexual. Same sex orientation does not equate to pedophile.

    As an LDS scout leader, it is hard to recommend an organization that discriminates based on sexual orientation.

    There are so many safety precautions out there in the scouting handbooks to ensure children are kept safe. Try following those. Try having two-deep leadership. Why don't scout troops put an emphasis on training their leaders instead of only on merit badges for their kids? Parents of scouts should demand that their scout leaders watching their children are fully trained before the safety of their children is jeopardized. Let's go parents.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:16 p.m.

    First off how many homosexual 12 year old's are there - really. I would say you would be hard pressed to find ANY homosexual 12 year old boys period and the reason is obvious - homosexuality is a developed behavior and not something you are born with. Sorry but there is NO homosexual gene. Secondly the BIGGER issue here is not the boys but the adults. Parents don't want ANY association of homosexuality with their boys especially in the secluded confines of the back woods. I'm sure you understand all the reasons for parents concerns so no need to elaborate. The scout oath clearly states that a scout must be 'morally straight' which implies New Testament morality as taught by the Savior as far as the LDS church and most other Christian churches are concerned and not 'worldly' morality which has nothing to do with sexual promiscuity. Being accepting does not imply abandoning standards.

  • eEditor Kaysville, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:18 p.m.

    I wish the LDS church would part ways with the BSA, regardless of it's decision on this issue. Have LDS young men focus on the Duty To God program instead. The BSA might have been swell in 1955, but it has outgrown it's importance and appeal to many. I know this will anger all the "gung-ho" scouter types, but the fact is, not all of us are the real outdoorsy type. In fact, some of us hate hiking and camping. It's insane to me that this program is still such a big deal.

    The BSA is top heavy in "leadership" and their salaries are outrageously inflated. I say we part ways as friends, & let them do what they will with the homosexual decision. Problem solved.

    The LDS Young Women aren't involved in the Girl Scouts of America, and they seem to be doing just fine. Better, one could argue. The Young Men could still go camping, etc., if they wanted, where they could focus on DTG goals while in the outdoors, instead of badges. They have Foursquare on their iPhones for that, anyway.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:17 p.m.

    Being gay gay, does mot make a person a child molestor

  • slave American Fork, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    Why has sexuality even become an issue in Scouting? As a Scout we were too busy at the age of Eleven thru Fourteen to even give sexuality a thought. We spent our time learning skills and enjoying time together. This whole issue has been blown way out of proportion by adults (joke) who have nothing better to do than push a personal if not a political agenda. The vast majority of our youth at this age could really care less and only want to continue enjoying their youth. It is sadly gone to soon. Why don’t we behave as the adults we pretend to be and allow our Children to grow up not hating instead of teaching them hate.

  • RBN Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:41 p.m.

    @Itsme2

    But, there's room in the church for a someone who's sexual orientation is gay, but chooses not to act on those feelings? Using your argument there is no room for anyone who is not honest, true, chaste, or benevolent because we believe in being "honest, true, chaste, and benevolent". And what about those that don't do good to all men or follow Paul's admonition.

    Do you think that straight in the Scout Oath refers to sexual orientation? I think it means something more than that... it means being true. Don't you think that the boy that identifies as being gay, but chooses to obey the law of chastity is being morally straight? I think that such boys are among our most strong and valiant and I would want them to be a part of my troop.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    March 25, 2013 2:53 p.m.

    PA Rock Man

    As far as BSA is concerned they can do what they want. As far as the LDS Church is concerned they have a great back up plan minus BSA. The LDS Church already has a great model for their young women that the young men can step right into with the Duty To God award being the main focus so no big deal really. It would be nice to continue with scouting but I suspect BSA's days are numbered anyway with the PC world we live in. Scouting was fun while it lasted.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    March 25, 2013 2:56 p.m.

    The arguments for and against gays participating in scouting can be applied to other areas as well.

    What about young gay LDS men and women who want to serve a mission? Many have served missions.
    Should the policy be changed? Is it about behavior or who one is?

    Should the LDS church adopt a policy that gay young men and women should not serve missions?

    Or should there simply be standards of behavior--no promiscuity, celibacy, whatever?

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    March 25, 2013 3:07 p.m.

    I'm a Scout leader and there currently are rules in place that shouldn't allow any leader to be alone with any boy at any time. These rules hopefully protect the boys regardless of the leader or scout's sexual orientation.

    'morally straight' is part of the scout oath, so do I need to start asking the boys if they have ever lied? or stolen? or where does it end? Should we start excluding boys and leaders that have lied to their parents?

    I've always thought this was an oath of what we are striving for, not necessarily what we have achieved so far!

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 3:11 p.m.

    @Donn Bugg

    "How does feeling attracted to members of one's own sex amount to a moral violation or a sin?"

    It doesnt.

    Similary, a man being attracted to women is not a moral violateion or a sin.

    YET

    most people agree men going on campouts with young neigbor girls is a BAD idea.

    Again, poor attempt to play the victim card

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    March 25, 2013 4:08 p.m.

    These Utah BSA leaders will all do what the LDS Church decides. If the LDS Church continues to use Scouting as its program for Young Men, then these so-called BSA leaders will fall in line. An opinion poll is therefore meaningless.

  • Artemisia Tridentata Hawthorne, NV
    March 25, 2013 4:21 p.m.

    This change would put the National in line with the way LDS units operate. The LDS Handbook of Instructions directs that ALL boys inj the ward be regestered as cub, and Boy Scouts. The program will not change as "sexuality" is not, and would not be an issue.

  • ProudUtahn St. George, Utah
    March 25, 2013 4:26 p.m.

    @Lane Myer
    "I wonder what would have been the results if the LDS church had sent out a survey on whether or not we should allow gays to attend church and hold callings..."

    Everyone is allowed to attend church as long as they do not disrupt those officiating and other worshipers. Same as holding a calling as long as they do not practice or openly advocate the homosexual life style. We are all sinners but we try to refrain from our weeknesses. Same sex attraction is no different as long as it stays between the individual, the Lord and the Bishop.

  • dlw7 LOGAN, UT
    March 25, 2013 4:43 p.m.

    If you are a Christian, a follower of Christ, we should show love to all people. If you believe the scriptures to be true then you must believe homosexuality is a sin.As member of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latterday Saints, we can only love the "sinner", but detest the sin....that is what the Lord calls homosexuality.

  • sid 6.7 Holladay, UT
    March 25, 2013 4:48 p.m.

    I grew up around Gay men. My mothers 2 best friends were a Gay couple. Who were together for 50 some odd years I might add. With all of the parties I attended at their home with several Gay's and Lesbians in attendance I can't ever recall a time when I was molested or even felt in fear of that happening. I even traveled with them in their Motorhome on several occasions with out my parents being there. Again, nothing ever inappropriate ever took place. They were dear family friends and wonderful moral people.

    Any one should be able to reason out the fact most homosexuals are not pedophiles just like most heterosexuals are not pedophiles. Pedophiles are pedophiles weather Gay or Straight. One has any thing to do with the other.

    The BSA is a private organization they can make any rules they want. I just hope clear minds prevail and they do the right thing.

    What would Jesus do?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 4:56 p.m.

    @patriot
    "So 83% in Utah oppose homosexual scout masters while only 33% nationally?"

    If I understand the article right I think the 83% is scout leaders in Utah while the 33% is anyone nationally. I suspect the national scout leader number is probably on the order of 50-55% rather than 33%.

  • Bebyebe UUU, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:02 p.m.

    Pedophiles are statistically men. Perhaps men shouldn't be allowed to be camping with children, male or female.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:06 p.m.

    @ patriot

    There are literally thousands of testimonies from homosexual people who said they knew they were gay at a very early age. Just because you don't personally know any homosexual 12 year old kids does not mean they aren't out there.

  • snowman Provo, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:06 p.m.

    Claudio: You are obviously unaware that the Church does not run the scouting program. The Church does however, sponcor some units.

  • Buzzards LEHI, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:08 p.m.

    As a practical matter, non-practicing homosexual youth are not being excluded today from Scouting. If he has only told his bishop and/or parents, it's confidential and probably not public knowledge. If he has "come out" to his fellow teens, odds are that he is not being chaste any more. Of course, exceptions exist.
    But it's not like the Scouts are hunting down 14 year old boys dealing with SSA. Openly gay scoutmasters and assistants, that's a little more problematic...

  • Bill in Nebraska Maryville, MO
    March 25, 2013 5:11 p.m.

    Lane Meyer: As a poster stated that all are welcome to come and worship. However, what you failed to state and what is very much practiced is those who have same-sex attraction may be fully fellowshipped as long as they remain in a chaste lifestyle. This goes the same for an individual that is heterolsexual as well. However, if the individual who has same sex attraction is living the LBGT lifestyle they will not be allowed to attend the temple, hold callings. In fact, if a person is living the gay lifestyle and wants to join the church they must first repent and forsake that lifestyle before baptism would even be considered. THe same is true for a couple who are co-habitating. They either get married as defined by the Lord, which is between a man and a woman, or they must remain celibate.

    Boys and men with same sex attraction are already acting as scout leaders and scouts in the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints. However, if they start acting upon that attraction they will be asked to quit attend scouting activities and be released from their callings.

  • Meadow Lark Mark IDAHO FALLS, ID
    March 25, 2013 5:21 p.m.

    It is so interesting. Everything is fine as long as I agree with the prevailing viewpoint of the group pushing for the change. When I disagree with their viewpoint then I am a bigot or intolerant or perhaps something worse. Why is it wrong for me to disagree with a viewpoint when I feel it compromises my moral values? Isn't there prejudice on both sides of the fence? Why do special interest groups feel it only goes in one direction?

  • Steve C. Warren WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:27 p.m.

    The issue, of course, is whether an individual troop should be allowed to set its policy on gay Scouts and leaders. This wouldn't force individual Utah troops to change their current policy. It merely allows a choice.

    In Utah, however, we're not real strong on allowing free choice when it comes to religious beliefs. Last fall in Highland, for example, city voters were asked whether individual businesses should have the right to choose for themselves whether to disobey the 4th Commandment by opening on the Sabbath. Voters said NO WAY.

  • DaveRL OGDEN, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    I grew up going through the Scouting Programs, Cub Scouts, Webelos, Boy Scouts, Explorer Scouts and we had gay members. The boys all knew who they were and guess what it didn't matter. They were our brothers in scouting, it was never a problem, one even became our Senior Patrol Leader. To exclude certain individuals because of their orientation is morally wrong. It is time for Utah to step into the 21st century and be accepting of those who might be different. It's time to teach & practice tolerance.

  • dhsalum Saint George, UT
    March 25, 2013 5:33 p.m.

    I'm sure no one cares about my opinion of everyone else's opinion, but oh well.. here it is:

    I would not feel comfortable with an openly gay scoutmaster with my son, but I do not believe he would be at any greater risk of being abused, sexually or otherwise--Most likely less at risk, in my opinion.

    I think it is silly to state that little Johnny in church would feel left out when he doesnt get invited to scouts because he is gay... The question is regarding openly gay, or avowed gay men (as the survey says), and if a young man in the church were openly gay, then he would already feel left out by the other boys, I guarantee it---Even though it is wrong and the church's policy is against it, the boy would be ridiculed relentlessly. This does not mean that a young man who is confused about his emotions/feelings cannot be involved in scouts. But if he had a 'boyfriend' and everyone knew it, I think his involvement in scouting would be the furthest thing from the parents' and leaders' minds.

  • IA Cougar West Des Moines, IA
    March 25, 2013 5:45 p.m.

    @ironyguy...so if you don't agree with the GLBT movement, you are a bigot? This is what bothers me about the movement in general. If straight people say they prefer straight, then they are called names of hate and bigotry. Temples are defaced, buildings are burned and names are called.

    Civility needs to exist for commonality in purpose to exist. I am one who agrees with the current BSA policy. I agree with what is "morally straight." I do not agree that my feelings make me a hater or bigot in any way shape or form and it offends me greatly to be called as such.

    Sadly, the GLBT movement will bully it's way and leave a wake of hate behind them. I respect those within the movement who seek understanding and not discord. Unfortunately, that is not going to occur. The majority of people under 30 prefer a "who cares" policy and so it won't be long before all laws are changed and straight people will be in the minority. In the mean time, right is still right and understanding is something we should seek for.

  • yarrlydarb Ogden, UT
    March 25, 2013 6:12 p.m.

    DNews "Most Utah Scout leaders oppose BSA gay policy change"

    No kidding! What a surprise!

    Most of them probably still like guns, though!

    Just sayin'

  • Jonboy Bedford, WY
    March 25, 2013 6:13 p.m.

    I suspect that if the BSA chooses to accept so-called GAYs, especially gay leaders, the Sustaining Membership drive will be hard pressed to collect enough donations to keep the BSA afloat.

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    March 25, 2013 6:46 p.m.

    Snowman,

    I am perfectly aware of the LDS Church's involvement in Scouting. I didn't need the correction, as I didn't err.

  • Contrarius Lebanon, TN
    March 25, 2013 7:36 p.m.

    IA Cougar --

    " if you don't agree with the GLBT movement, you are a bigot?"

    Simple disagreement doesn't make anyone a bigot. But attempting to deny a group of people their constitutional rights does.

    As for the vandalism and name-calling, there is plenty of that on both sides of the issue. But I bet there's not many straight people who have been beaten to death just for being straight, or who have been fired from their jobs just for being straight, or who have been kicked out of their rental homes just for being straight. All of these things, and many more, have happened and continue to happen to homosexuals. Just because they're gay. It's only natural that they should get a little bit upset about such things.

  • Francis LeGuarde Sandy, UT
    March 25, 2013 8:10 p.m.

    There are two questions, and it's important to distinguish them: 1) Should we allow gay scouts and/or leaders; 2) Should we allow scouts and/or leaders (of any sexual orientation) to promote homosexual behavior. Let's be clear, admitting you are gay doesn't, in and of itself, encourage a homosexual lifestyle. Even inside the LDS Church (and many others) there is a clear delineation between thought and action.

    I don't have a problem with my son being around gay scouts. I don't have a problem with my son being around gay scout leaders. My primary concern is that my son spend time with people and groups that support and respect the belief system taught at home and at church.

    Regardless of your opinion, let's calm down the rhetoric. Having a standard about (any type of) sexual behavior does not make people or an organization "bigoted." Allowing gay scouts and leaders isn't the same as allowing pedophiles. I'd like to think we are past those stereotypes.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    March 25, 2013 8:22 p.m.

    Re: "Simple disagreement doesn't make anyone a bigot. But attempting to deny a group of people their constitutional rights does."

    What a typically bigoted liberal statement!

    In real English, it translates as -- "Disagreement doesn't make you a bigot. Disagreement with ME makes you a bigot."

    Nothing in the Constitution guarantees extension of marital rights or other special protections of immorality, or those choosing to engage in it. The Supreme Court has ruled as much in the past, and will shortly do so again.

    Hopeful liberal elevation of immorality to the level of a virtue and a Constitutional right does not make it so.

    Suggesting anyone's a bigot that disagrees with that erroneous liberal legal position certainly DOES constitute bigotry, however. Or maybe, ignorance.

    But, certainly not legitimacy.

  • MIMom Mt Pleasant, MI
    March 25, 2013 8:38 p.m.

    I think that some fail to understand the meaning of the concept morally straight. It is being interpreted as synonymous to the use of straight vs gay. Straight is a word meaning on a straight path, moving forward, holding to a direct course. One can still be morally straight and still be gay.

  • spring street SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    March 25, 2013 10:12 p.m.

    @chris b
    As ECR has already proven your "FACTS" don't square with a scientifically confirmed reality even when you type I.n all capitals.

  • Big Bubba Herriman, UT
    March 25, 2013 10:18 p.m.

    If it is inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen girls, then it is inappropriate for a gay man to sleep in a tent with teen boys. 'Nuff said. Let's move on, folks.

  • Way of the Warrior ARLINGTON, WA
    March 25, 2013 10:21 p.m.

    "...that ye love one another as I have loved you". when we think of people in terms of labels such as "gay", "atheist", etc., how easy it becomes to stop seeing each other as children of God. How easy it becomes to stop seeing everyone for who they really are. It sure makes all our arguing seem so trivial and insignificant doesn't it?

  • Mainly Me Werribee, 00
    March 26, 2013 1:30 a.m.

    I will withhold any support of the BSA if they change their policy.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 26, 2013 4:04 a.m.

    For those concerned about what "morally straight" means.

    Should adults who have been divorced be allowed to be leaders?
    Should adults who have committed adultery be allowed to be leaders?
    How about those who have cheated on their taxes?

    How about adults who occasionally drink alcohol or drink coffee daily?

    Guess it all depends on how we define "morally straight"

  • junkgeek Agua Dulce, TX
    March 26, 2013 6:46 a.m.

    None of this matters. BSA will do what it is prepared to do.

  • sigmund5 Salt Lake City, UT
    March 26, 2013 8:28 a.m.

    The methods used to determine the facts on which this story is based are seriously flawed- leaving aside the issues of rights and evil. The following comment in no way breaks the rules of posting on this page. How many Mormon scout leaders are going to publicly state they favor letting gay boys into scouting? A young Mormon woman was recently not given the opportunity to serve a mission because she stated she was in favor of equal rights for gays. How many scout leaders would be called into the bishops office if they publicly questioned church doctrine on this issue? Please don't block this post. If you do could you explain to me how it breaks any guideline thanks

  • Itsme2 SLC, UT
    March 26, 2013 8:38 a.m.

    RBN, you're ascribing beliefs to me that aren't fact just to stir up controversy. I stand with the LDS Church on this issue. I did not say there was no room for chaste people regardless of sexual orientation. The thing is if a person is identifying themselves as gay, then they want their sexuality recognized. There is no room in the BSA for this kind thing. If a gay person is chaste and forever plans to be and wants to be in the BSA, then they should keep their sexuality out of it completely.

  • Itsme2 SLC, UT
    March 26, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    You hit the nail on the head, Meadow Lark Mark.

  • MrsH Altamont, UT
    March 26, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    Personally, I don't think it's the "openly gay" ones we need to worry about.

    If someone is going to prey on young boys, they are not going to advertise it... gay or not.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    March 26, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    Re: "A young Mormon woman was recently not given the opportunity to serve a mission because she stated she was in favor of equal rights for gays."

    Unlikely.

    Since such a position agrees entirely with the position of the Church, she would not have been excluded from missionary service for adhering to it.

    If, on the other hand, she repudiated Church doctrine, suggesting that practicing LGBT are doing nothing wrong, or that they should be allowed to marry same-sex partners in the Temple, why would she even want to represent the Church, and why would the Church select her as its representative?

  • bandersen Saint George, UT
    March 26, 2013 12:22 p.m.

    A civil society requires trust that can't be mandated. A majority of mothers out there want their boy in a safe environment where he can't be influence by those whose beliefs and actions are contrary to their own. Mess with mother, goodbye Scouts!

  • thunderbolt7 DUTCH JOHN, UT
    March 26, 2013 12:28 p.m.

    Why aren't men allowed to be Girl Scout leaders and camp with girls? Sexual attraction.
    Why aren't women allowed to be Boy Scout leaders and camp with boys? Sexual attraction.
    Why shouldn't homosexuals be allowed to be scout leaders and camp with kids? Sexual attraction.
    Yoo-hoo! Anybody paying attention to common sense?

  • Claudio Springville, Ut
    March 26, 2013 1:14 p.m.

    Re: thunderbolt7

    There are women who work at BSA camps and spend the night. Does that defy your common sense argument?

    Maybe my experience was unique, but I never had a scout leader sleep in the tent with me or any other youth. The only exception was if the scout was the son of the leader. I never hear anyone worried about incest in the Boy Scouts. By the logic suggested by some on these boards, maybe we need to be.

  • ulvegaard Medical Lake, Washington
    March 26, 2013 1:39 p.m.

    I have a problem with the word "bigotry" being used with this issue. To my understanding, bigotry irrational disagreement with another person based solely on different characteristics of the group or individual in question.

    I do not nor have I ever seen the BSA teaching hate against any group of people outside of their own organization. The NRA does not appreciate members in their organization who are opposed to complete gun bans - that doesn't make the NRA bigots. The BSA excluding individuals who do not recognize or cooperate with their long established by-laws is not a hate inspired act. The BSA was not formed, a hundred years ago, to either promote or judge a person's sexual orientation. Their bylaws were established to promote strong character and standards in the young men who chose to join their organization and were willing to accept each and every oath and directive of the organization.

    As far as I understand this situation, the BSA is not trying to eliminate gay scouts, unless they outwardly oppose scouting values so much as to restrict gay leaders - and that is their right to set the boundaries of their organization.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    March 26, 2013 5:26 p.m.

    "Why aren't women allowed to be Boy Scout leaders and camp with boys? Sexual attraction."

    Our troop has women leaders who absolutely go on campouts.

    A bit of self control goes a long way. I am pretty sure it works that way for those who are gay.

  • Mike123 Layton, UT
    March 26, 2013 6:17 p.m.

    I am currently the Deacons Adviser in my ward. It is these demeaning attitudes toward homosexuals that made it difficult for me to accept the calling. Why is the church so intermingled with a secular organization?

  • luvbug WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    March 26, 2013 7:25 p.m.

    I don't want my children influenced by gay people. I don't have anything against them but that lifestyle is not acceptable by God. And if it's not acceptable by God why are we accepting it as a society and condoning it?

  • Really??? Kearns, UT
    March 26, 2013 8:13 p.m.

    "If it is inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen girls, then it is inappropriate for a gay man to sleep in a tent with teen boys. 'Nuff said. Let's move on, folks."

    It's also inappropriate for a heterosexual man to sleep in a tent with teen boys. It's a rule the scouts live by and stand firm on--separate tents for the scouts and the scout masters.

  • Jack Aurora, CO
    March 26, 2013 9:11 p.m.

    @ Mike123,
    Perhaps you should do some research into why the LDS Church chose to affiliate with BSA over their own brand of scouting in 1913, and have endorsed it ever since. Every Prophet since then has supported it, and their statements are clear why. The values of Scouting reflect the values of the 13th Article of Faith. The Methods of Scouting are the very tools needed to raise capable and worthy young men to go on missions. Tell me sir, do you question the Prophets in other matters too? BSA isn't demeaning anyone. They have membership standards and are currently examining those standards. The Church has membership standards, the military has membership standards. If you cannot or will not adhere to them you are free to disassociate yourself. Let things sort out, let the Prophet speak and then you can make your own decisions. I have already made mine and I will be here no matter what the decision may be.

  • Bill Vernal, UT
    March 26, 2013 11:59 p.m.

    I was a boy scout. In 64 years I have met and known gay and lesbian people and couples from every walk of life and every state I have lived in. I'm not gay but honestly, I have never known a gay or lesbian person I didn't like or have had a lot of respect for. Lets give this silliness up, we have much bigger fish to fry.

  • GC Addicted Washington, UT
    March 27, 2013 8:53 a.m.

    Seems like most of what we are hearing in the news these days revolves around gay rights. The institution of marriage is be attacked in the Supreme Court and now our youth are under attack on the Boy Scout front by gays demanding that we give up our rights for what the see as theirs. What has happened to the protected family values that we had in our country?

  • Simply Mom North Salt Lake, UT
    March 27, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    I think this entire issue is a farce. I’m sure that there are many men and boys who are gay who are currently participating in the Boy Scouts of America without a problem. That is NOT the issue. No one is trying to exclude any group—as the liberal forces are trying to make us believe—because gays are already participating in the Boy Scouts. The issue is this--the gay movement wants validation. They want to promote their gay lifestyle—not just be included as they already are. Why do they have to force their agenda and their way of thinking on an organization that stands for high moral principles? It is one more destructive tactic that is eroding our society. And lest you think I hate gay people—I don’t. I just don’t believe they have the right to force their agenda on society. Apparently they don’t want to just blend in. So if they want to flaunt their sexual orientation, be identified and singled out, let them start their own gay BSA.

  • Hurteau Auburn, MA
    March 30, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    It's strange that male homosexuals are vilified, yet lesbians are all about being inclusive in the Girl Scouts and that's OK?

    There is no war on women,,, It's a war on the male species.