Before Ute haters come on the board and pile on (yes, in the D News this
happens---shocking, I know), let's let the facts come out. Give Dr. Hill
his chance to show his side of the story. Let him tell what he knew and did not
know. A writer in the Trib has already done his best to stir the pot against
him (Hill). It would be nice if the readers could reserve judgement until the
whole story comes out.
NCAA athletics, where students not only have scholarships held over their head
but are forced to stay with their school or suffer a redshirt season while
coaches can come and go as they please, is the perfect environment for abuses of
@goredThis is a comment board, where people, you know, commment. I
understand your desire to not have to read anything negative about utah and its
athletic department but the truth is this is a very big story, a very big deal,
hill looks like he is in some serious trouble, the university itself looks like
it could be in some serious trouble, and utah "fans" like yourself are
just going to have to deal with those facts.Your plea for restraint,
from those you call "haters" rings hollow since you certainly would not
restrain yourself in the slightest if the tables were turned, your record here
proves as much. Nor would the other utah "fans" on these boards restrain
themselves. I'm sure that other than attacking BYU fans that make comments
about this though all of you will refrain from commenting on it since you would
prefer the ostrich approach and a quick as can be cover up.
Go Red,I couldn't agree more. We always have to be careful not
to immediately believe those who sling accusations ... especially when
they're coming from disgruntled former athletes (or the parents of those
athletes) who had scholarships taken away.I'm certainly not
saying that the accusations shouldn't be taken seriously. The U or even an
outside entity needs to do a VERY thorough investigation to uncover all the
facts. And if even some of these accusations are true, I hope the U will take
swift action against those in the wrong ... including Chris Hill if he had any
prior knowledge and didn't appropriately act on that knowledge.
@gored and motortrikeSo what is appropriate commentary on this? Can
we say that this looks bad? Can we say that it appears hill may be in some
serious trouble? Can we say that it appears that the university has some serious
questions to answer? What can we say about this?Can we not say
anything at all? Are we supposed to just ignore this, for utah "fans"
sake, and pretend nothing happened? Should we ignore the parents and athletes
that have almost all verified this? I'm waiting on permission
from you guys on how I should react to this, afterall we can't have people
commenting on subjects that might cast the univeristy of utah, its athletic
director, its president, and least of all its sports, in a bad light. Why that
would be unconscienable, far worse even than ignoring the complaints of a group
of parents and athletes over half a decade. It is always wrong to discuss things
that might expose corrupt behavior at utah, things now publicly reported.
Duckhunter--yes. You can say it looks bad.
Go Red - stop with the hypocrisy! We all know how these comment boards would be
lit up if this were to happen at BYU under Holmoe's watch.
DuckhunterDid you actually read my comment? Cause if you did
you'd see that I'm pretty much saying the same thing you are.There's nothing wrong with commenting on the article. But there's
certainly a difference between a rational comment and what Go Red was talking
about - assuming guilt before the process has been played out.Bottom line,
if Hill and others are guilty of wrong doing then I absolutely hope the U
doesn't hold back on punishment, penalties and firing people where
necessary ... and that includes Chris Hill.But for now, all the public has
to judge this by are the stories from a few athletes that had scholarships
pulled. We have yet to hear the other side and probably won't hear much
because it would be extremely unprofessional for the U of U to respond to
comments prior to doing a full investigation. THUS the reason for Go
Red's comment about using restraint. There's this little thing in our
country called "innocent until proven guilty."
DuckhunterLet me more clearly answer your questions for you:"Can we say that this looks bad?"Yes. Because it does look
bad."Can we say that it appears Hill may be in some serious
trouble?"Yes, because he "may" be in serious trouble."Can we say that it appears that the university has some serious questions
to answer?"Yes, because they obviously do have serious questions to
answer."Should we ignore the parents and athletes that have
almost all verified this?"We certainly should NOT ignore them, nor
should the U ... which is why a full investigation is under way._______It seems you just want to stir the pot since all of your questions have
very obvious answers.This situation isn't about the U looking
bad or looking good. This is about doing the right thing. If an investigation
finds that there are serious improprieties, then U of U leaders and even law
enforcement, need to take serious action.However, the point here is
that no one on these threads knows the full story and we would be wise to
withhold judgement until that story has been told.
It's just as I feared. there is an apparent lack of institutional control
and the athletic dept is starting to crumble around Dr Hill as we speak.
He's run a top 25 basketball program into the ground, is well on the way to
doing the same with the football program, and now this with the swimming team.
Often times with every cockroach you see they are 25 more you don't see. Is
this just the tip of the iceberg with the Athletic Dept?It certainly
looks like Dr Hill is in over his head and maybe this is just a sign that trying
to remain competitive in the Pac12 is just too great of a strain and they are
beginning to flounder. Is it just a matter of time before we hear things like
this from the football program?Sound like it's time for a
Article reminds me of the late Jo Paturno at Penn State. Let the coverup of the
motorbike,why do you take the bait?
I'M a Ute fan . Yes if this was about BYU it would have a 100 comments
already. What do u expect you are held to a higher standard right, or u think u
are right. I think the Doc on the Hill needs a reality check. There is a good
article on Yahoo about this and if all is true Doc Hill needs to go and fast.
The win-at-all-costs mentality has invaded lots of corners in college athletics.
The problem is that there is too much $$$ in university sports. Sometimes,
less is more. Sometimes, a more prestigious conference is not worth the
pressure it creates to compete.
It doesn't matter how many comments there would be for a similar story
about BYU. The bigger question is why allegations aren't addressed hard
and fast, especially after Penn State. Every university in the nation should be
doubling down on investigations.I am interested in hearing the
administration's side. They are a public institution, and owe us
something. I'm not going to leap to the "cover up" conclusion.
Joe Paterno, you kind of get that. He is a football legend. Swim coach is one
of those positions you presume a school has. Dime a dozen. Certainly not a
position you need to protect with a cover up.
Dr. Hill and the University of Utah were notified in writing as early as May
2009 of allegations of abuse occurring within the swimming and diving program
and they've received other complaints since then. In December 2012 the
university was notified that Greg Winslow was being investigated for criminal
sexual abuse of a 15 year old girl during his previous coaching position in
Arizona.Yet, Utah apparently did NOTHING until a blogger connected
the dots from Arizona to Utah?There's absolutely no excuse for
Utah not immediately suspending Winslow as soon as Utah learned of the Arizona
allegations, at the very least, until that investigation was completed and
Winslow was cleared of the charges.This whole thing reeks of a cover
I am a Utah grad. I am a big Ute sports fan.But if these credible allegations
are true, Chris Hill needs to be fired. It sounds as if Hill was sweeping many
independent and serious allegations under the rug in an attempt to protect the
athletic department.I expect better things from the school I
attended. I expect better behavior from its employees and from their superiors.
It may be time to clean house and Chris Hill has to be the first person cleansed
from the U.
I'm a Cougar with much respect for Utah and Dr. Hill. I'm gonna wait
til I have more facts before I drool on my tie as some of my fellow Cougs have
Many years ago(early 1980) dr hill was a co-author of a white paper
investigation into the performance of staff at the Utah State Training School
(now known as The Utah State Developmental Center).As an
administrator who favors transparency, dr hill would be the first person to
agree that he needs to receive the same rigorus treatment he urged investigators
to give to the staff working at the USTS.
gored / motorbikeInstead of buying into Hill's embarrassing
cover up, read Brad Rock's column and the associated Yahoo article
detailing the abuse that has gone on for years within the Utah swimming
program.Get back to us when you're more enlightened.
The headline for this article is disturbing:"University of Utah
AD Chris Hill vows to look into allegations aimed at athletics dept."SEVEN years after reports of abuse first surfaced at the U, Chris Hill
is FINALLY going to look into the allegations???Where have you been
for the last seven years Dr. Hill?
This is what I love about college sports. It builds character, good
sportsmanship, honesty,etc.etc. etc. Sports bring out the best in people. And
participation is so inexpensive, it's a wise use of tax dollars. And the
University of Utah sports program brings a lot of good publicity exposure to the
state of Utah. Why spend the taxpayer money on education when you have an
I agree with Go Red, lets wait and find out what happened before we jump to
anything. RE:BalanSouth Jordan, Utah"Go Red - stop
with the hypocrisy! We all know how these comment boards would be lit up if this
were to happen at BYU under Holmoe's watch." You are right
BYU haters would be lighting up these comment boards. But why do we need to do
the same thing? Lets wait and see what happened.
Two items: First, I lost a lot of respect for Chris Hill way back when he was
first starting as AD, and he pressured then-KALL to fire a sports-talk host for
airing a program allowing listeners to vent their spleens after Hill fired a
middling but popular basketball coach (before Majerus). ADs, and head coaches,
for that matter, too frequently treat their departments as fiefdoms. Second: to
the parent who sat on accusations for 3 1/2 years until his own son was fired
from the team - Aren't these allegations serious enough that you should
care about others in the program, and not just your own son? If you are so
concerned, why wait 3 1/2 years?
Another reason to love USU
Not Good! Get this cleared up, no matter cost.To the Ute Haters,Have your fun but this ain't going to help anything at byu. The Utes
already went racing past you, and with the basketball team up and coming, even
the trail of dust is starting to disappear.
Oh, LOOK, a comment NOT made about other comments, but about the article:"Two former Utah assistant coaches who resigned in 2012, Charlie
King and Lisa Pursley, were contacted by the Deseret News, but both declined to
comment about their time at Utah or why they left."Were they
paid off, or are they just cowardly?
"I agree with Go Red, lets wait and find out what happened before we jump to
anything."In other words, let's just sweep it under the rug
and pretend that nothing happened. Heaven forbid that Hill and company could
actually be involved in a cover up after all of the $$$ he brought to the
school.Forget that "what happened" has been going on for
five years without Hill saying a word about this to the public.
The Dr has been practicing on the hill way too long. Got lucky with Urban and
let Big Rick way overstay his welcome. Other than that what has he done?
Something that is obvious here to anyone who knows anything about the inner
workings of competitive sports is the characterization of the accusations.
Until the Arizona issue comes up all the accusations are from disgrunteled
athletes and their parents who are unhappy with treatment by coaches. Most
competitive sports programs could build a staircase to heaven with the stacks of
such letters..including highschool programs. I read accusations of hazing,
excessive training, and racial slurs. All things to take seriously, but nothing
that would set an AD's hair on fire, and say oh my the program is out of
control. Such behaviors pale when compared to what happened at Penn State..not
even in the same universe. We'll see what comes..but slow down
with the hyperbole. It reminds a little bit of the hatchet job the Allred
family did on Majerus.
@thebig1He hired Whit,he got us in to the Pac12,and he hired coach
"NCAA athletics, where students not only have scholarships held over their
head but are forced to stay with their school or suffer a redshirt season while
coaches can come and go as they please, is the perfect environment for abuses of
power."Civil said it perfectly.For every one report,
you know there where many times that that went unreported since a kid's
scholarship was the leverage held by the coaches, and the coaches alone. As for the OEO office.... Wow what can I say? You are everything that we
have come to expect from bureaucrats. That entire office sounds like it needs to
be flushed.As for Dr. Hill. If even part of the Yahoo article is
accurate (and it sure seems like it is) your time at the U has come to an end.
Time for the U to start looking for someone that will shake up the whole
department. Like David Brandon did at Michigan.The U should be
interviewing his Asst AD now.
According to other news accounts, "For years, student-athletes and their
parents approached the University of Utah athletic department with multiple
allegations of abusive behavior by head swimming coach Greg Winslow, and yet the
university never disciplined Winslow until it became aware he was the focus of a
police investigation into the sexual abuse of a 15-year-old girl."But according to the apologists, since the abuse allegedly "pales in
comparison" to what happened at Penn State, none of this should be setting
Hill's hair on fire and we should all assume ostrich position.I
wonder how "pragmatic" these apologists would be if it was their kid who
was being abused?
Innocent until proven guilty. My only question is, who is conducting the
investigation? If Dr. Hill has been alleged to have acted improperly, the
investigation should be conducted by an organization outside the athletic
department. This article seems to indicate that Dr. Hill is conducting the
investigation, including whether or not he acted improperly. Conflict of
interest there if you ask me.
SLCguy"As for Dr. Hill. If even part of the Yahoo article is
accurate (and it sure seems like it is) your time at the U has come to an
end."Couldn't agree more. Why is Dr. Hill
"investigating" the allegations if he was part of the cover up?
I realize that in this day of the internet lynchmobs, this guy is already
guilty, and maybe he is. There certainly seem to be a rash of stories about
teachers sleeping with their students. But in general, I don't know why
anyone joins the teaching/coaching profession anymore. You become certified and
start your career, and at any moment it could all be taken away based on the
accusation of a kid who was mad at their grade or not making the team.
ekute"The Utes already went racing past you, and with the
basketball team up and coming, even the trail of dust is starting to
disappear."Your obsession with all things BYU betrays U.This has NOTHING to do with BYU. It has EVERYTHING to do with a
continuing pattern of abuse of student athletes at the U being ignored by the
administration - first Majerus, and now Winslow.
ModerateLots of justifying there, but we're not talking about
ONE kid making ONE accusation that may or may not be true; we're talking
about MULTIPLE kids making MULTIPLE accusations over a period of MULTIPLE years
at MULTIPLE institutions, and a complete failure on the part of the University
of Utah to properly investigate the allegations.The university
already "lynched" the abuser by running him and his boss out the door;
the question now is why did it take so long when Utah's administration has
apparently been aware of the abuse for years?
Moderator"I realize that in this day of the internet lynchmobs,
this guy is already guilty, and maybe he is."Are you serious?
The university has already fired the guy and his boss, apparently without
conducting an investigation, and now the administration is busy trying to cover
Wow! This is a new phenomenon: Parents complaining when little Jimmy or little
Mary is cut from the team, or when Coach is too hard on them, or when Coach
speaks unkindly. I've never heard of parents complaining before. This
must be serious! Heads must roll!Frankly, if I were Dr. Hill, I
would have considered the source of every parental complaint and assumed a
mountain had been made of a mole hill. I'm glad I don't have his job
to do. We all owe JoPa and Ohio State such a big debt of gratitude for making
every program and every coach suspect!I'm a Cougar fan and BYU
alum, but I'm giving Hill and the U the benefit the doubt for having a slow
chris hill conducting an investigation into himself and his own athletic
department is akin to the proverbial fox guarding the henhouse. What a joke.
Linus"Parents complaining when little Jimmy or little Mary is
cut from the team, or when Coach is too hard on them, or when Coach speaks
unkindly."So now you're claiming that Dr. Hill fired
Winslow for no other reason than some parents complaining about mistreatment of
their little Jimmy or Mary???I wonder how you'd react to having
a long piece of PVC pipe taped along the length of your kid's back, having
the pipe bound to his outstretched arms, and then having your kid forced to swim
a series of underwater sprints until he blacked out because he couldn't
breath.I swam in high school and college, have been coached by
coaches who coached Olympic swimmers, yet I've never seen this particular
training "technique" employed.In a word, it's ABUSE,
regardless of how you want to characterize it, and those responsible for
allowing this to happen at any institution should be fired.
@Linus and others saying this is just about disgruntled athletes and parentsYou should read the Yahoo report before saying this is all about
'playing time' or 'not making the team'. I'm not saying
every word of it is true, but these are not small accusations.
Aquatic version of Rick Majerus.
After listening to Mr. Hill on a local radio station, I felt his comments and
answers to questions were vague and came just short of "no comment".
There were zero hard denials which to me is not a sign of confidence. Could be a
seriously bad day and ugly black eye for the U if and when the allegations and
coverup are proved correct.
If he'd won a PAC 10.2 championship and taken the Utes to a runner-up
finish at nationals, the Utes would have hung a Winslow banner in the natatorium
instead of firing him.That's just the way they roll up on the
Duckhunter"chris hill conducting an investigation into himself
and his own athletic department is akin to the proverbial fox guarding the
henhouse."I wonder what Chris will do when he uncovers his own
The fact that Winslow is no longer going to be employed at the U, speaks volumes
about what they already DO know...If Winslow was accused in Arizona,
what happened to THAT case? Why were charges dropped? And if dropped, why is
he automatically dismissed at Utah, if there are not real reasons for doing so?
It does not look good from where we, the public, sit. This is not
about sports...this is about abuse allegations, no matter what the surroundings
are. So drop the BYU this, or the Utah that...this is purely about management
and administrators, and teachers, and allegations of young people being preyed
upon by adults, and those in positions of authority. Justice MUST be meted out.
This is the obvious thing to do in this case isn't it? So why isn't it
just as obvious that an independent investigator needs to be done for John
Swallow and Lt. Gov. Bell? What a double standard!
Oh Henry! What does John Swallow and Greg Bell have to do with u?
Can you imagine the outcry if someone tied a mesh sack and a PVC pipe to a dog
or cat's back and then chucked that animal into a pool to watch it drown? A
respectable human wouldn't treat animals this way! I read the Yahoo! sports
report and it said that Winslow sat poolside and laughed as he watched these
kids basically struggle for life. I'm sickened by the fact that this abuse
was allowed to go on for years. Shame on Dr. Hill.
Boy, I wonder what the Pac-12 Conference is thinking right now? Bet Mr. Hill got
a call from them on this. Chris hired the coach and from what I've read and
just heard on the radio, he has ultimate responsibility. My guess is that he
will fall on his sword for the University President. Swimmers and divers will be
allowed to transfer without penalty. Its' going to be a mess, this is just
the tip of the iceberg.
Dr. Hill and the university haven't answered the two most important
questions:If, Greg Winslow didn't do anything wrong, why was he
fired?If, Greg Winslow did do something serious enough to be fired,
why wasn't he fired sooner?So far, the university hasn't
given a straight-forward answer to either of these questions, and until they do,
they're leaving the question of the lack of institutional control
hanging.This is going to get really ugly for the U if they continue
Just released: "The University of Utah announced Monday it is
hiring a pair of outside investigators to review allegations of physical abuse
and inappropriate behavior by the school's ousted swim coach.The university already has said it won't renew the contract of suspended
swim coach Greg Winslow based on allegations that he sexually abused a teenage
girl he coached in Arizona six years ago."Hopefully, we'll
finally get some answers instead of stonewalling.
Sad to see these issues. I only hope this isn't systemic of "your tax
dollars at work." Utah residents whose taxes support the institution
deserve answers. At least it is now finally going to be investigated fully.Dr Hill is in a bad position, at least in the press, because of the long
time supposedly these abuses has transpired, without his taking action.
However, keep in mind we DON'T KNOW THE FACTS and shouldn't rush to
judgement. The truth will come out and then it will be time to pay the piper,
so to speak. I can wait. I'm willing to see what transpires. In the meantime, I wish the best to the Utes as they sort throught this
tangled mess. No ill will from me about this situation.
The University of Utah Athletics Department does not receive any Utah Tax payer
dollars. No need to worry about "your tax dollars at work."
@SportsCenterWho said that we were buying into Dr. Hill's
"embarrassing cover up" as you say? I have only said that Dr. Hill
deserves due process. And how is it that you have all of the facts? You tell
me to "come back when (I'm) more enlightened". Does that mean that
you are the enlightened one who has all of the facts concerning what Dr. Hill
knew in this situation? If you do, you should come forward with them!
So Dr. Hill promises to investigate his own *documented* egregious oversights?
goredIt's laughable that the first comment on this thread was
you passing judgment on "BYU-haters" before a single comment from a BYU
blogger had been posted, yet you expect NOBODY to pass judgment on Dr. Hill
until he's been given his "due process".Where was your
"outrage" about due process when Dr. Hill fired Coach Winslow?We know this is embarrassing for U, but, this isn't a court of law. What gives you the right to chastise other bloggers for not refraining
from "passing judgment" until "all of the facts" are known? What
if Hill NEVER announces any facts? Are we expected NEVER to pass judgment?As another blogger posted, there are really only two questions that Hill
needs to answer:1. If, Greg Winslow didn't do anything wrong,
why was he fired?2. If, Greg Winslow did do something serious enough
to be fired, why wasn't he fired sooner?Regardless of the
answers, Hill doesn't appear to have a legitimate excuse for waiting until
March 2013 before firing Winslow.
MAFU"The University of Utah Athletics Department does not
receive any Utah Tax payer dollars."Who pays to maintain all of
the facilities used by Utah's athletics department?Who pays for
traffic enforcement and stadium security on game days?Who collects
student fees that are given to the athletic department?The truth is,
millions of taxpayer dollars are used every year to support the Utah athletics
@ MAFURead again carefully, please. I said "I hope" not
that it was a fact. I also said that tax dollars support "the
institution," not just the "athletic department."Also, I
am one of the few critics of Utah athletics that also said we don't have
the facts and that we should find them out first.Now, respond
Uteanymous, who said anything about assuming the ostrich position. I simply
said compalints about harsh treatment and unfair treatment are a dime a dozen in
competitive sports programs..thus such claims wouldn't be alarming..as
would an accusation of sexual abuse. What does a hypothetical of one of my
kids being mistreated have do with anything? The parents aren't being
questioned here..you're just making up unrelated nonsense.
Uteanymous and killarney. I'm sorry you missed the point of my comment. I
am in no way defending the coach at Utah or the actions of that University.My concern was in regard to the teaching profession. Again, I
don't know why any kid would choose "teaching" as a profession. I
don't know how an honest, non-molesting teacher or coach protects
themselves from false accusation in this day in age. That seems to be a
profession high in risk, with little reward. Too bad, because we need good
teachers and coaches.
pragmatistferlifeIf these are "dime a dozen" complaints, why
was Winslow fired so abruptly as soon as the allegations became public?Hill and the Utah athletic department have had five years to address numerous
complaints against Winslow, yet nothing was done until the complaints became
It is about time!
Marked it down..your two comments have nothing to do with one another..stay on
topic. Complaints being common in sports programs are a fact..ask a high school
head coach. Everything from unfair treatment to harsh treatment. But the
commonality of complaints has nothing to do with why these complaints were
treated the way they were..I have no idea, and neither do you..so again stay on
topic and quit asking irrelevant questions.
@phantombladeThe comments after the article have everything to do
with byu,Utah and the rivalry. That's why the majority of the comments are
fron byu fans. Thus the essence of my comment. Save your sermon for your meeting
on sunday. No doubt,this is a black mark on the Utah athletic dept. We'll
see how much of a black mark at the conclusion of the investigation. Probably
not as much as the byu fans are hoping. So I maintain...That on the field of
play, this does nothing for byu. the Utes already raced past you and now even
the trail of dust is starting to disappear. Go Utes
yes, I'll look into this and get back to you on it.
Too bad for all involved, get it figured out and move forward. This and other
situations like this are terrible.