Many leaders support citizenship moves, but rank and file differ
Thank you!This is the first article I have read from Deseret News that
explains how I feel.I get so tired of reading article after article saying
that I am basically a bad person or a bad Christian because I think that there
is a difference in the words "Immigrant" and Illegal alien."
I wish that we had all the money and supplies and food and medical etc...
for all the poor in the world. Truth is, that is unrealistic. Truth is, that we
don't have enough to support even our own people born and raised in this
country.In airplanes, we are taught to take care of ourselves first when
the air mask fall, then when we are secure to take care of others. That is the
way the government needs to look at this problem. Take care of the citizens
first so that we can have all that is needed to be able to truly help others in
the world that need our help. Don't bypass the needs of the citizens in
order to give help to others.
Churches should tend to mens souls and not politics. It is frustrating to me
how the Churches have become more "me, me, me" and turning their back on
those who need the church for sanctuary.When did we lose the moral
compass, to reject anything out of hand?
Thank you for a well-written, accurate description of the different opinions
within the evangelical community. Richard Land may formerly have
represented Southern Baptists at the Convention, but his group does not speak
for the millions of independent Baptists and community-church "evies".
He is welcome to his opinions and efforts at a viable solution. But the
realistic threat as seen by the realists is the abysmal lack of enforcement, as
your article accurately described.We have seen the enemy 'and
the enemy is us'. We saw this Administration attack our republic neighbor,
Arizona, with vicious disregard for its precarious border dangers and offer NO
solutions outside of litugation. 'Nuff said.No regard for the
laws already on the books indicates that the cartel-stronghold is well embedded
within our legislatures. Pray for those living within a stone's throw from
the Mexican Al Queda amassed at our borders. After 17 years, our church can no
longer take our high schoolers to cross the Yuma border at Easter vacation to do
Vacation Bible School because of that very threat. Tragic.
The same could be said about the LDS in Utah. The leadership of the LDS Church
also has a disconnect with its membership on illegal immigration. The LDS Church
didn't sign the Utah Compact, but they openly showed support. The LDS
Church has supported those who have broken U.S. Immigration laws, in spite of
the 12th Article of Faith, and favors amnesty for illegal aliens. With the support of the LDS Church and cheap labor employers the Utah
Legislature and Governor have made Utah, and especially SLC a sanctuary state.
This reinforces in the minds of others that Mormons are mindless political
robots, similar to what is said of Evangelicals. Both Mormons and Evangelicals
are very concerned about how the media perceives them, especially the LDS
Thank you for the insight. Missing from the article was any information about a
disconnect between LDS members and statements from Church HQ. Believe me, it
exists.And I would dare say the Catholics have the same disconnect.At the end of the day leaders from all churches are driven by congregational
growth. Immigrants are the growing contingent in most Christian churches. I
believe that to be true for the LDS Church as well.But Mormon doctrine is
clear about obeying the law of the land. And the handbook advises immigrants to
come here legally. The rub comes when those principles are disregarded to
accommodate missionaries and leaders who are known to be living fraudulent
According to current figures from ICE, Obama has removed 1.4 million people
during his 42 months in office so far. Bush's cumulative total was 2
million, over eight full years.Comparing the presidents’
monthly averages, it works out to 32,886 for Obama and 20,964 for Bush, putting
Obama clearly in the lead. Clinton is far behind with 869,676 total and 9,059
per month. All previous occupants of the White House going back to 1892 fell
well short of the level of the three most recent presidents.We
wondered whether there might have been a surge of undocumented immigrants that
explained the increase, but there wasn’t. During the first two years of
Obama’s tenure, the Pew Hispanic Center estimated the illegal immigrant
population nationwide at 11.2 million, compared to an average during
Bush’s eight-year tenure of 10.6 million. And illegal immigration actually
peaked late in Bush’s second term, at which point the recession hit and
the numbers declined under Obama. Such patterns do not explain the 57 percent
bump in monthly deportations that we found under Obama.(Politifact)
Could it be that the leaders have let their commercial desires exceed and
diminish the desire for religious activities. When religion is a
business, it is no longer a religion.
Re:BrerRabbit"the Utah Legislature and Governor have made Utah, and
especially SLC a sanctuary state."According to Census Bureau
numbers, UT ranks #11 in the U.S. for the highest percentage of white
population--86.1% in the 2012 report.Doesn't the LDS church
teach we are all brothers and sisiters--God's children? Weren't early
church members expelled from several states because they were viewed with fear
and loathing when they started to congregate in large numbers? One would think
an LDS dominated state would approach immigration with a more compassionate
Lay members don't hire public relations firms and make public statements in
order to massage their image. Many churches do. This obsession with public
opinion can affect churches' stance on public, civic, moral, and political
issues. Further, churches are after converts. More converts means more revenue
and greater power and influence. I'm not trying to be offensive, but just
point out the fact that churches compete with each other to grow their
memberships.Lay members, however, have been taught repeatedly to
"choose the right", or "obey God and leave the consequences to
Him". Further, LDS hold as one of their major beliefs to "obey, honor,
and sustain the law".The LDS Church and Evangelicals have had
great success in converting Latino immigrants, so for their leaders, prospects
outweigh principles (they call it "compassion"). Lay members, however,
see this issue clearly: breaking the law is wrong. If illegal
immigrants as a whole had no interest in joining any other church, the level of
compassion or desire to "keep families together" by church leaders would
undoubtedly be less. Thus, no call to keep polygamist families together.Overall, many of us are disappointed by our leaders' behavior on
When Christ comes again, he will arrive as an illegal immigrant. Think about
it. A native Palestinian suddenly appearing at a temple. Will He stop for a
visa? Will we give Him amnesty?
Seems to me that this idea was being swept under the rug by the government while
they kept the population busy chasing around after a gun law that has to be
approved by both sides before being endorsed and years before any
implementation.The gun law was getting all the attention there while
trying to legalize 12 million illegals. I was totally amazed that both parties
could agree on this immigration bll in about 25 minutes when they couldn't
agree on the color of the sky in Washington for the past 5 years.The
people up to the trough look at it like there could be up to 5 million new tax
payers and that can bring significant revenue, no mater what it might do to the
country. Smoke and mirrors, entertain the masses and the press with
gun lobby and pass 12 million people into the country
@marcamusWhat an utterly trite and pointless comment that has no
relevance to this discussion. The subject is church leaders' and lay
members' views in regards to illegal immigration. You might as
well have brought up the Three Nephites.
truthseeker,the problem with the stats you cite is BO's
"deportations" include interdictions at the border, which are not the
It has been said many times that we are a nation of immigrants. This is a
misleading statement. We are a nation of LEGAL immigrants. Truthseeker tries
to make a point regarding the deportation of illegal immigrants during various
presidential terms. The information, while interesting, is flawed. From the
period of 1892-1954 the immigration laws were very different than they are
today. From the period of 1892-1924, when immigration laws were most liberal,
some 20 Million immigrated to the US. From 1925-1954 the number of immigrants
significantly dropped to 4.1 Million, reflecting tighter laws. Over the period
from 1892-1954 over 600,000 were not allowed into the country, principally due
to lack of proper papers or the potential to become charges of this country.We still welcome LEGAL immigrants today. Those that have come here
illegally are not welcome under the law. They should respect our laws, not
ignore or protest them. And they should voluntarily return to their country and
go through the legal process to come here. We are supposed to be a country based
on the rule of law. They current immigration laws should be duly enforced.
Evangelicals know quite well how to hate those (who are different especially)
who break Gods law or any law,Its time they now learn to focus on
loving their neighbors.
re marcamusgoochland, va---The more revelent
question is .. Will he give us amnesty?
Obviously the leaders are more in tune with God's will than the membership
of the churches.
marcamusWill God allow illegal immigration into Heaven. And just
ignore the laws.
To a Christian, national boundaries make no difference. All human beings are
God's children and should be treated as God told us to treat our neighbor.
Evangelical and LDS church leaders understand that concept.
Truthseeker needs to discover the truth that the Obama administration is playing
fast and loose with the numbers; it is now counting "voluntary removals in
lieu of deportation" as deportations, which they were not before.Actual deportations are down even from the depressed numbers under Bush.Those claiming to practice Christian charity ought to be concerned for
their existing neighbors more than their prospective new ones. Everywhere that
Mexicans or Jamaicans or Somalis have come to live in the USA, their
surroundings have come to resemble Mexico and Jamaica and Somalia in all
respects, including the negative ones like lack of respect for education, single
motherhood, misogyny and crime. Roughly half of all "Hispanic" children
in the USA are now born out of wedlock. If you are pro-family, you will work to
keep Hispanic families together where their governments do not subsidize family
breakup. That means OUTSIDE THE USA!
My thinking is that Evangelical ministers the leaders do not necessarily
represent the members views. That in my opinion is not rare in Protestant or
even Catholic denominations. Somehow we have to do something about immigration.
If they are going to be here let's have them pay taxes and fees, etc. A
strong border is a must. I am not happy if a suitcase nuke enters and is set
off somewhere. In the meantime we need an adult at the head of the country. I
hope we get one in 2016 who is pro free enterprise
I'm very liberal and not white and I want the laws we actually have
enforced. Amazing how those who don't do the same jobs are in favor of
Many of you need to review the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints
concept of families. A Bishop and a Stake President never asks if a person is
legal or illegal as far as citizenship is concerned. They ask pertinent
questions pertaining to the individuals worthiness pertaining to callings and
temple attendance. How the individual answers is strickly up to the individual.
I really would like to see how some of you can honestly come up with a way to
round up the 11-12 million illegal aliens in this nation and send them back to
where they came from. How you plan to make our borders which are extensive
safer and impregnible. It is impossible. So the answer is to do things in a
compassioniante and loving way. Sure Arizona's law was probably too strong
but it was what was needed in that state. Obama took it upon himself to
ridicule it because it didn't agree with his idealogy at all. He has no
more compassion for the illegal alien than he has for the legal alien. The LDS Church and many church leaders of others sects are showing the
compassion and love needed.
The sole motivation of this Administration is clearly to curry favor with the
Latino vote. After all the Latino vote secured his re-election. BO has little
regard for anything remotely to do with economic reason.