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Robert Bennett: What is the future of the tea party?

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  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Feb. 10, 2013 11:46 p.m.

    And who tossed you out of office?

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:15 a.m.

    Mr. Bennett,

    After the emergence of the Tea Party, you were not able to even get the nomination for the seat you had previously, running on a Republican ticket, in Republican voting Utah.

    After the Tea party, Obama got his 1st & 2nd term.

    After the Tea Party, the Republican House has only passed 3% of legislation and has only a 10% approval rating.

    The calls from the Tea Party for an uncompromising and 'pure' concepts of conservatism...

    is what lead to devastating losses for...conservatism.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 5:04 a.m.

    To MapleDon 11:46 p.m. Feb. 10, 2013

    And who tossed you out of office?

    ---------------------

    Radical far right extremists who didn't give a hoot about the United States and its citizens.

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 5:45 a.m.

    For the future of our country there cannot be any future for the tea party.

    Unfortunately, despite the country rejecting the tea party's ideas, I have a feeling that as Lon as they're backed by the Koch bros, they'll stick around. What pests!

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 6:13 a.m.

    Actually, fact checking will show that the first Tea Party sprouts sprung up in 2008, as soon as it became apparent that Obama would be the Democrat candidate. His victory gave it momentum. By time he was inaugurated, it was a full fledged movement - before he even had a chance to sit his seat in the Oval Office.

    Additional fact checking will show that there was central leadership and financial support - it was never a truly organic movement.

    It did, however, eventually outgrow the control if its handlers and start creating problems for them - some tea party members (think Scott Brown) actually listened to constituents and tried to do things instead of just saying no and grandstanding all the time. This led to divisions within the Tea Party - which affected its ability to win and has thus ended its usefulness to the Republican Party which is now focused on attacking and destroying it.

    The problem facing the Republican Party - and leading to editorials like this one - is how to convince those who truly believed/believe in the Tea Party to give that up and return to the fold.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Feb. 11, 2013 6:25 a.m.

    You failed to mention that the "spontaneous movement" was fueled by millions of dollars from the Koch Brothers. The middle class Tea Partiers have been cynically manipulated by these .000001 percenters to campaign against their own self interests.

    People are seeing through this charade and the future of Tea Party will be increased marginalization within the Republican Party.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 7:06 a.m.

    @Bailout Bob: "...anti-government..."

    Wrong. We want "just enough government."

    "Nothing in politics goes on forever."

    But we'll be here long after you are gone.

  • Paul Scholes Provo, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 7:09 a.m.

    The Tea Party tossed Senator Bennett out of office when they were at the height of their power. Now, that power has decreased as evidenced by their inability to dislodge Senator Hatch as well as other evidence put forth in the article. The Tea Party has two choices, either continue in its ultraconservatism and continue to disrupt any possibility of Republican success in national elections or push more middle ground conservatism with a degree of tolerance for pluralism and have some impact in the national dialogue going forward.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    The comments about tossing people out of office and obstructionism indicate it was just like occupy wall street. Karl Rove, the guy with the money, has decided to prevent it from nominating any more weak candidates. All that is left is the yelling and blogging about Beck and Hannity concepts.

  • JerseyGirl Sandy, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 8:34 a.m.

    MapleDon, you're making his case for him. Utah lost Bob Bennett and got a completely ineffective tea party demagogue that has done nothing for the state. And given your own string of electoral losses, it's astonishing to me that you would take aim at someone who won three elections over the course of two decades.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 11, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Mr. Bennett’s analysis is a bit too “in the weeds.” A more succinct and accurate portrayal might be:

    1.Tea Party starts as outrage over bailouts and its early message was one of fiscal responsibility.
    2.Glenn Beck jumps on board and those who have never spent any time in “crazytown” begin to get nervous.
    3.Small government conservatives get on the bandwagon and they become the movement (and in 2010, the party) of “no.”
    4.Movement gets co-opted by social and religious conservatives, and that combined with #3 pushes the message of #1 totally aside causing them to lose all credibility with Independents and Pragmatists (who were on board with message #1).

    I recall a radio interview a couple years back that included a Tea Party and an Occupy Wall Street leader (if there is such a thing). Turns out they agreed on about 80% of the issues.

    We need a movement (or third party) based on that 80%, and marginalize the wing nuts… then it might be more than just an historical footnote.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:03 a.m.

    Senator Bennett omitted any reference to the influence of BIG MONEY in the rise of the Tea Party.

    Big money from the likes of the Koch brothers, et al.

    As for me -- I just hope the Tea Party will die. Fast.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:11 a.m.

    Political success in American politics comes from broad-based coalition-building. The tea party attempt to radicalize conservatism only succeeded in dividing it.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    The tea party would rather lose with their ideal candidate then to win with one that isn't perfect for them.

    Think a womans right to choose is reasonable? You are OUT.

    Think trickle down economics has not been shown to work? You are OUT.

    Think personhood rights for the unborn are unacceptable? You are OUT.

    If the T party would elect fiscal conservative and leave the social baggage alone, they may have something. Same goes with their followers. They dont leave room for even the slightest deviation.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:23 a.m.

    Tyler D

    Excellent analysis.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    The tea party continues to have entertainment value.

  • southmtnman Provo, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:15 a.m.

    The Tea has steeped too long in its own juices and become bitter and cold.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:17 a.m.

    Hooray for the radically uncommitted, meandering, milquetoast, moderates who stand and have conviction for nothing. If it weren't for the left-wing media and polls, where would they be?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    I am going to sort of disagree - I think in a moderated way, the tea party and its views add value. The problem is it became the catch all for every anti - something person out there... it became defocused, it became just anti to be anti. It was the conservative cool kids party. Problem is that it did get co-opted. It did become about other things than just fiscal conservatism. It did become about race - like it or not. There were all these fringe agendas pulled into this so call "party".

    Now, not to be misunderstood, there isn't much I agree with - when it comes to the Tea Party. But they, or their fiscal conservative parts, play an important part of keeping balance in Washington. If they stay to supporting that policy, there is room for them at the table.

    But as we have seen, Tea Party has become to mean something much more than that. They have become the "anti" party - which produces nothing or worth. As long as people like Sarah Palin and Glen Beck try to be the face of the party, nothing positive will come from it.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:25 a.m.

    The Tea Party was good when it was started under Ron Paul. But it became neoconned when Glenn Beck and Sarah Palin infiltrated it.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    And Utah has, what - 50% - of our Congressional representatives as members of the Tea Party Caucus?
    [Even though less than 10% of the entire GOP House belongs to it, and only 4% of the Senate.]

    All taking orders from Tea Party Caucus Chairman - Michelle Bachmann.

    Utah has affiliated itself with the worst of the worst.

    Isn't that right Mr. Fiscal conservative Tea-Party darling,
    Senator Short-Sale, Lee?

  • toosmartforyou Farmington, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    I'm one who helped "toss" Senator Bennett at my neighborhood caucus and I'm no tea partyier (even if that is a word).

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:49 a.m.

    At its debut, the 'tea party' came off as too confrontational and unyielding. Now it seems poised to lose most every battle they have fought. My solution? Send them the book 'Baby Steps' and if they are smart they may get somewhere.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:08 a.m.

    No future for the Tea Party. They have proved unworthy to govern, its as simple as that.
    And unles it reforms itself rather than just rebranding itself the Republican party is doomed. It is also just a regional party.

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    While Mr. Bennett's regarding the path and likely fate of the tea party movement obviously omits some significant details, overall it is a fair summary and makes a good point; namely, that the tea party movement has evolved into something that is monolithic, but not very cohesive, that doesn't resonate with the masses to the extent that it originally did, and that its viability is in serious doubt.

    As others have stated or implied, if the tea party movement, or any political movement in the United States, would focus on fiscal responsibility (vs. "starving the beast"), government accountability and optimization (vs. all-out minimization of the size and scope of government), and the notion that government exists to serve the people (vs. the notion that no good thing can EVER come from government), then that movement would almost certainly gain widespread support across party lines, would wield a tremendous amount of influence, and would likely be viable for a long time. The only real threat such a movement would have would be from those in power who benefit from the status quo.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:14 a.m.

    JoeBlow
    Far East USA, SC
    The tea party would rather lose with their ideal candidate then to win with one that isn't perfect for them.

    ==============

    HaHaHA, very funny...
    sad, but true.

    I thought of a few more GOP RINO -
    Think about and you are OUT(s) --

    Global Warming? You are OUT.
    the Earth is old than 6,000 years? You are OUT.
    allowing access to Healthcare for all Americans? You are OUT.
    banning military assault guns and high capacity magazine? You are OUT.
    Civil Unions or Domestic Partnerships? You are OUT.
    raising taxes of Billionaires? You are OUT.
    immigration reform? You are OUT.
    co-sponsoring a bill with a Democrat? You are OUT.
    even having lunch with a Democrat? You are OUT.

    Don't even think about it...

    Just one tick to the left, by ANY measure, or compromise...
    and the Political Puritan Tea-Party will burn you alive at the Stake.

    But go ahead and keep cannibalizing and self-imploding -- This sort of intolerence in the name of politcal purity and ideology will be your doom.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:23 a.m.

    The Tea Party seem to be super patriots with an economic cause and little regard for people. Their backing by the rich and powerful means that they have the resources to carry on even in the face of lost popularity.

  • cval Hyde Park, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:25 a.m.

    The Tea Party movement has proven once again that extremism, either right or left can get a lot of attention and a little momentum, but it is unsustainable.

    I sincerely hope that the Republicans learn this lesson before the next election.

  • ShaunMcC La Verkin, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:46 a.m.

    All political movements start with enthusiasm and idealism. I never jumped on the TP bandwagon and they never jumped to my aid. I think they have done much good in getting apathetic citizens to start thinking about what future we are creating with the two headed monster (D&R). The party movement may well fade if they don't go back to the basic fiscal concepts that energized the people, but those that have awakened may well be a force in modifying the existing parties or creating a viable third party. It will be interesting to see how this develops, but I fear that, if they don't find more success soon, apathy will again become the order of the day as those that care about the future lose hope that anything substantive can be done.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:07 p.m.

    I think a good questoion for Senator Bennett or any of us who might be wondering what the future of the Tea Party might be is to ask what they have accommplished. They took away seats from moderate Republicans but did they really take away seats from the Democrats? In same cases their presense on the ticket swung a vote away from the Republicansd and helped to elect a Democrat.

    Have they put forth any meaningful legislation that has helped us in any of our major issues? I can't think of any. They have mainly played obstructionist or they have put forth legislation that is so far out of line with the American people that it didn't have a chance of being passed. Any of us can waste each others time complaining about the government (in afct, I think that's what do every day on this page) but we need real leaders to actually make things happen in the government.

    Has the Tea PArty produced any of those? I can't see any from where I sit.

  • Utah_1 Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:11 p.m.

    In 2009 and 2010, tea party was TEA Party, as in Taxed Enough Already. Many agreed with that and became involved. When groups like the Freedom Works, claimed they were responsible for your dad loosing, when it was actually 3 candidate campaigns and local grass roots groups, things started going down hill.

    I believe Sen. Bennett lost despite Freedom Works' involvement, and those that wanted Dan Liljenquist to win this last year couldn't yell loud enough for Freedom Works to get out of town and stay out of the race. Freedom Works' involvement in 2012 was one of the reasons.

    Sen. Hatch won, along with Dave & Kitty, who are amazing.

    In 2011, TEA Party went from fiscal conservative to a combination of Libertarian and other specific issues. Yes, there were Libertarians at the beginning, but they hadn't claimed the movement yet. When Tea Party became associated with other issues besides conservative fiscal issues, and national groups started calling Tea Party theirs, it went from TEA Party, to Tea Party, to tea party.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:24 p.m.

    Bob Bennett was a wise and capable Senator, unlike Mike Short-Sale Lee who will not work with anyone. We have an utterly useless voice in Washington now. Will someone in the Republican party rise up and save us from Lee in 2016? Mr. Huntsman, how about you?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    "Hooray for the radically uncommitted, meandering, milquetoast, moderates who stand and have conviction for nothing."

    Why thank you. Considering the source, I take that as a proud endorsement. I would rather be radically uncommitted than just another drone that repeats the never ending sludge of negative, party purity, conformist types.

    I feel warm all over.

  • MapleDon Springville, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    @UtahBlueDevil

    Your comments have consistently been on the left (we call it "Radical Left"). I'm only surprised you didn't blame Bush. Now, get back to work.

  • 1covey Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 12:49 p.m.

    There was reason a'plenty to be angry at the time (still is); however the anger pushed aside reason and to a certain extent the tea party shot itself in the foot. Mr.Bennett's ouster was one of the latter, judging from Senator Lee's performance.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 11, 2013 3:28 p.m.

    Is the Tea Party over?
    Is the John Birch Society finally dead?
    Is Joe McCarthyism still rampant?
    Is the Salem Witch Trials over yet?

    They never go away,
    as long as there is ignorance,
    they will just keep re-incarnating themselves.

  • Swiss Price, Utah
    Feb. 11, 2013 3:45 p.m.

    1. I liked Bob. His Rural Business conferences are sorely missed Mr. lee. He never charged $150 to attend Governor.
    2. I believe Beck left Fox.
    3. Taxed Enough Already will reappear each time taxation with representation gets onerous on the middle class.
    4. If the Koch brothers truly financed many of the rallies and seminars they got much more for their money than Works did for financing Occupy. I hope NY and Oakland sue him for their loses.

  • stevo123 slc, ut
    Feb. 11, 2013 5:25 p.m.

    Maple Don, Please vote for yourself! You need to get a few more votes. The tea party needs them as they fall in to the decline they deserve.

  • mohokat Ogden, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 6:07 p.m.

    Nothing in politics goes on forever. Sen. Lee seen to that. Sen. Bennett sour grapes are just that. Sour. We witness often two sore losers. You and John Huntsman Jr.

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 6:19 p.m.

    What is the future of the Tea Party? I will tell you (with a grin):

    The March Hare (Ryun) thinks we in the "post-party" era, despite the fact that time has been punishing them by stopping at 6:00pm (tea time), giving the illusion that the Tea Party will never end.

    Meanwhile, the Mad Hatter (Glenn Beck) continues to weep voraciously while trying to figure out why a raven is like a writing desk, but being unable to find the answer in any of Skousen's revisionist history books.

    The very tired Dormouse (Meckler) was arrested at New York's LaGuardia Airport and charged with felony possession of a weapon, so he fell asleep on Jason Chaffetz' cot.

    Alice (Palin) is becoming insulted and tired of being bombarded with riddles (such as questions about what news magazines she reads), so she is painting the roses red for her daughters' "un-wedding" while preaching Family Values.

    Eric Odom is taking the advice of the Dodo (Bachmann) and organizing a caucus race in the House Permanent Select Committee on Intelligence, investigating the Muslim Brotherhood's "deep penetration" into the U.S. government using flamingos.

    And Mike Lee is a hedgehog.

    Croquet anyone?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 11, 2013 7:10 p.m.

    @MapleDon- you are confusing left wingedness with someone who was a life long moderate conservative tired of reading the never ending drivel of lies and misrepresentations. You don't have to be a liberal to dislike dishonesty and arguments made based on innuendo and half facts.

    I don't find hate a family value - and I see that a good portion of the Republican party has become the party of anti anything, and any one, without a single positive solution. I personally see no value in voting over 20 times against ObamaCare, without a single alternative put on the table.

    So if being against people who for party sake openly state their goal is to make our dually elected president fail - at the cost of every citizen of this nation - if that makes one a liberal... I guess I am a liberal.... what ever that means.

    But I would then also be a liberal who helped the Republican party sweep into power in North Carolina this election by working on the McCory campaign. In my opinion, anytime you are all one way or another, you aren't doing too much thinking.

    Just my opinion.

  • What in Tucket? Provo, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 9:40 p.m.

    interesting that just about all these articles about how bad and radical the Tea Party might be they never seem actually to mention where the Tea Party stands on issues. I thought it was lower taxes, less regulation , fewer Federal workers, a balanced budget for starters. These positions do not seem too bad to me.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 10:40 p.m.

    Upset about the bailouts?

    I hate to break this to you, but they started before Obama was even elected:

    **'Bush signs $700 billion bailout bill' - AP - Published by Denver Post - By Tom Raum - 10/03/08

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Feb. 11, 2013 11:57 p.m.

    Ask dick armey...

    The tp'er who scored the $8,000,000 golden parachute.

    The same tp people who moan about excessive spending spent $8,000,000 to make one of their grass-roots super-heroes go away...

    tp'ers...

    Please continue to do what you are doing.

    Thank you!

  • Nate Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 6:55 a.m.

    Tucket is right. The tea party movement really began when Rick Santelli appeared on CNBC in February of 2009, broadcasting from Chicago, and suggested that there should be a "Chicago Tea Party" to protest the unwise government actions which had led to the housing collapse. It is interesting that no one, including Bailout Bob, has mentioned these origins.

    Tea party protests are made up of ordinary, law-abiding people who go to work every day, who have come to the realization that someone needs to speak up in favor of Constitutionally limited government, responsible fiscal behavior, and lower taxes. That's all we are.

    Much vitriol has been employed by the media to paint an ugly picture of us (parroted by ignorant people who claim to be open minded) but those are only smears. Tea party demonstrations are orderly and peaceful, and the people who attend them are your neighbors. We love America and care about our children and grandchildren just as you do.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Feb. 12, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    What in Tucket?
    Provo, UT
    interesting that just about all these articles about how bad and radical the Tea Party might be they never seem actually to mention where the Tea Party stands on issues. I thought it was lower taxes, less regulation , fewer Federal workers, a balanced budget for starters. These positions do not seem too bad to me.

    9:40 p.m. Feb. 11, 2013

    ============

    And then they added:

    Global Warming is a hoax,
    The Eaarth is only 6,000 years old,
    Cut spending on everything but the military, and increase it,
    denying healthcare to those with pre-existing conditions,
    Everyone should have an assault rifle w/ high capacity magazines - and NO background checks,
    Drill Baby drill, Burn baby burn,
    taking away Women's rights,
    Hispanics are not equal,
    the young people don't need expensive higher educations,
    Obama's birth certificate,
    4 deaths in Benghazi is a a HUGE mistake, while 7,000 deaths and $2 Trillions in the Bush wars isn't,

    ...shall I continue?...

    Perhaps if they stuck to the core issues, they wouldn't seem so extreme - and might still be popular.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Feb. 12, 2013 9:13 a.m.

    What in Tucket?,

    "interesting that just about all these articles about how bad and radical the Tea Party might be they never seem actually to mention where the Tea Party stands on issues. I thought it was lower taxes, less regulation , fewer Federal workers, a balanced budget for starters. These positions do not seem too bad to me."
    ____________________

    Sounds mainstream, doesn’t it? No espousal of racial and gay-bashing slurs that have been reported at their rallies where placards were displayed with caricatures of Barak Obama with a Hitler mustache. They insist they’re mainstream but they’re finding it increasingly difficult to get the public to buy what they’re trying to sell. Why do you suppose that is?

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 11:55 a.m.

    The Koch brothers new vehicle runs on tea and bitter vocal protestation.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 12:35 p.m.

    Wow, reading the comments here, you can really see that liberals are bitter and angry.

    Why do you liberals hate so much?

    I have been told my many liberals that the liberal philosophy is to live-and-let-live, and that you accept everybody and their ideas. Reading the comments here it appears that if you are not liberal enough, you are considered evil and should be destroyed at all costs.

    The irony here is that many of the same people who complain about Utah being dominated by Republicans are the very ones who complain the loudest about any group that opposes the liberals.

  • Richard Larson Galt, CA
    Feb. 12, 2013 1:15 p.m.

    Are not tea parties known the world
    over for their theme of WHIMSY?

    And for that theme of whimsy are
    very, very popular and appealing
    to little girls and old ladies???

  • Carrick Layton, 84041
    Feb. 12, 2013 1:24 p.m.

    And yet there was one seat Jim Demint helped win, that of Senator Mike Lee.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 2:26 p.m.

    @Craig Clark "...racial and gay-bashing slurs..."

    These are serious accusations. Have you ever been eyewitness to a tea party event where they occurred? I haven't. I've never met a tea party activist who used such slurs. I'm inclined to believe that these accusations are an example of the Goebbels "Big Lie" tactic -- repeating the same falsehood over and over again until it becomes accepted as truth.

    One example: an allegation was made that tea party protesters yelled racial epithets at the Congressional Black Caucus on the day of the health care vote. The allegation was reported as fact in the news media. Yet, when Andrew Breitbart offered $100,000 to anyone providing a video of this occurrence, no one could do it. This, in the age of ubiquitous video coverage.

    Usually tea party racism goes something like this:

    TEA PARTIER: Obamacare is bad policy. It's too expensive, and it will foster dependency on government.

    LEFTY: You are only saying this because you hate black people. You are a racist.

    Who is the racist here? Who brought up race? And how do we have a rational conversation, when these kinds of tactics are being used?

  • Noodlekaboodle Poplar Grove, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 4:49 p.m.

    @TParty
    I'll say this. I've never been to a tea party rally. But i've been at thanksgiving dinner and heard about "our illegal (racist word for mixed race) president" or the "King N(fill in the rest of this word)". Or, how all of the (slur for hispanics) should leave the country, even if they are legal residents. I honestly believe that many of the people who call the tea party racist have heard from friends and family members, who really are racist, and cling to tea party ideals. I think the better question is why does the tea party attract this kind of element?

  • Vanka Provo, UT
    Feb. 12, 2013 5:29 p.m.

    T. Party wrote an extended dialog between a TPartier and a "Lefty".

    Wow! That Lefty Man was so full of straw it would make Ray Bolger envious!

    Why can't the TP-ers wake up and realize that it is just this kind of absurd, superficial, misrepresented diatribe that completely undermines their credibility?

    If you are going to take issue with the position of your opponent, the very least you can do is give the illusion of representing your opponents position with some semblance of integrity before you attack it.

    But since you didn't, it reveals that both your mischaracterization as well as your own position is full of straw!

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Feb. 13, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    @redshirt.... what hate talk are youi referring to? I mean, what here is classified as "hate" where as the same language used the other way is what? Or is it that you accept hate talk from conservatives, it just surprised you that "liberals" used the same negative tones in their messages.

    I even commented that I saw value in having the Tea Party having a seat at the table - even though I disagree with them, to which I was labelled a "Radical Leftie". If my position is "radical", I would hate to see what others opinopns are viewed as.

    Disagreeing does not equate to "hate"... at least I hope not. And I don't think either side has a hold on the disagreeing part.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Feb. 13, 2013 4:02 p.m.

    To "UtahBlueDevil" go back and read the comments made by many of the typical liberal commentors. They are not disagreeing with anything from the article or with any other commentor. They are attacking those who do not agree with their liberal ideology.

    Again, if the liberal philosophy is to live-and-let-live, and accept everybody and their ideas, why do they attack those who they don't agree with. There is no acceptance in their attacks.

  • Hank Pym SLC, UT
    Feb. 13, 2013 8:13 p.m.

    re: RedShirt

    "Wow, reading the comments here, you can really see that liberals are bitter and angry."

    And AM talk radio and Fox News is all sunshine & lollipops?

    "The irony here is that many of the same people who complain about Utah being dominated by Republicans are the very ones who complain the loudest about any group that opposes the liberals."

    The real, legitimate irony is that your comment about irony contradicts itself. Who wrote that last bit for you? Arnold Rimmer? Frank Burns?

  • Wally West SLC, UT
    Feb. 13, 2013 9:38 p.m.

    To J Thompson 6:39 p.m. Feb. 12

    The same tactics are used by Beck, Hannity, & Rushie.

    Yet, you probably believe that they are valiant crusaders for all that is decent.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Feb. 14, 2013 7:31 a.m.

    @Noodle "I think the better question is why does the tea party attract this kind of element?"

    I think this is a great question, and that it has a couple of fairly simple answers. One is that tea party activists tend to read the Tenth Amendment literally, and believe it limits the size and power of the federal government. But historically, going back to pre-Civil-War times, there have been people who wrongly interpreted the Tenth Amendment as allowing slavery. (One of the code words for pro-slavery was "states rights.") Racist elements today often are not smart enough to see that we believe in one thing without believing in the other.

    The other reason is that many tea party activists believe that the rule of law should apply to immigration policy, and this is interpreted both by racists and our political opponents to mean we're anti-immigration. We're not.

    Racists are not welcome among us, but their presence makes it convenient for our opponents, who apply the label falsely as a means of shutting down discussion.

    @Vanka "...straw man..."

    Keep your eyes open. The illustration in my previous comment was not a far stretch.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Feb. 14, 2013 9:20 a.m.

    T. Party
    Pleasant Grove, UT

    Racists are not welcome among us, but their presence makes it convenient for our opponents, who apply the label falsely as a means of shutting down discussion.

    ===========

    You T. Partiers support racial profiling.
    Racial Profiling is based on the premise of one's race = racism.

    Enough said.

  • Tyler D Meridian, ID
    Feb. 14, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    LDS Liberal – “You T. Partiers support racial profiling. Racial Profiling is based on the premise of one's race = racism. Enough said.”

    Not quite…

    I am neither a tea partier nor a conservative, and yet some level of racial profiling strikes me as not only pragmatic but logical. Israel uses racial (and age) profiling because they have identified a certain demographic as most likely to highjack an airplane.

    Whenever I see a grandmother or a child being patted down at our airports, I bemoan our own lack of common sense in this area.

    And as someone who leans left on many issues, I really wish the Left would show more discrimination (no pun intended) when bringing race into the conversation. We all know that racists are more at home on the (far) Right than the Left, but it is a fallacy to suggest that all conservatives (or tea party folks) are racist.

    That sort of “profiling” won’t win you many friends… at least among those are don’t already think the same way you do.