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Letters: Many dangers with guns

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  • Beverly Eden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:42 a.m.

    Newel: A very thoughtful and productive letter. Your position is supported by research. Thanks for making a positive contribution to this critical topic.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:46 a.m.

    Just so we are all clear on the terminology, automatic weapons are those that keep firing as long as you hold the trigger (and there is ammunition). Semi-automatic weapons fire once per trigger pull.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    Thank you for a sensible letter. It stands in stark contrast to many that have appeared here recently.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 8:04 a.m.

    'Many dangers with guns’

    That is why we need to be educated on how to use them, how to store them safely away from children and the mentally ill.

    More education, not less guns.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 8:19 a.m.

    Maybe Christian is on to something. If people were better educated, they'd understand that we don't really need more guns.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 8:40 a.m.

    More education, and less guns.
    The mentality of more guns make a safer society, is a dance with the devil.

  • Demisana South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:33 a.m.

    We already have school personnel with guns here in Utah, and have for several years. You won't know who, unless an incident occurs and somebody needs to pull their weapon. It's legal, and there are classes available for no cost to school personnel. I'm not aware of any problems arising from this situation. I have kids in the public schools, and I hope there's at least one person at each school who is armed. If a mass shooter (or any other serious threat) showed up, that person would be already on site. It took 20 minutes for the police to show up at Sandy Hook. Average number of deaths in a mass shooting when the police stop them - 14. Average when stopped by a civilian - 2.5.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    Excellent letter. Thanks for a sensible contribution to this debate.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:38 a.m.

    The more comments and letters I read from ultra-Conservatives posting on these boards --
    the better understanding I have of their version of America;

    it's like a Post-Apocalyptic America;
    Anarchy,
    Guns mounted on vehilces,
    everyone has an Assault rifle,
    hund-guns at the ready,
    No sense of Government, since the Government IS the enemy,
    No taxes,
    No schools or places of higher Education [they are Liberally controlled don't you know],
    When your ideas can't win at the ballot box, you sign petitions or claim secret conspiracies,
    Free Market Capitalism, where you can buy anything in this world, with money.

    A regular Mogadishu, or MadMax sort of world.

    I don't believe in it,
    and I do not want to have any part of it.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 9:55 a.m.

    Car's are not weapons made to kill...

    But ironically,
    We have to license and register them,
    We must buy insurnce to use them,
    We must pay property tax to keep them,
    We must take ;
    attend classes,
    pass tests,
    have complete back ground checks,
    and show competency to operate them.

    All this for the public's safety.

    Guns - a weapon, who sole function is to kill -- require NONE of that to assure public safety.

    No one is coming to GET your guns,
    No one is coming to GET your cars.

    Stop living in your mythical paranoid world of MadMax anarchy,
    or pertetually trying to sooth say the spirits of "patriots" from 1776.

    Get over it.
    It's bad enough how the AM radio has you all scared into buying every paranoid novelty available:
    Guns, Gold, Food insurance, and Life-Lock on-line security scam programs.

    The Government in not going to come and get you --
    Unless you act out your paranoid fantasies -- and thereby creating your own self-fullfilling prophecies.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:06 a.m.

    I find it rather ironic that someone with the moniker "Christian 24-7" is for guns, guns, and more guns. For some reason, I just can't imagine Jesus packing heat.

    As for keeping guns out of the hands of the mentally ill, good luck. According to the Substance Abuse and Mental Health Services Administration, one in five Americans experienced some sort of mental illness in 2010. Yes, 20 percent of the population. Only about 60 percent seek treatment of any kind. Most are not violent, but who can say when someone is going to launch over the edge and start firing away.

    Perhaps the more salient point is that of those who are madly scrambling to buy guns "before the government takes them away," the percentage of mentally ill is probably higher than average (seems to be a paranoia factor here). Is it possible that those we need to prevent from getting guns are the exact people who are trying hardest to get them? Just a thought.

  • Demisana South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 10:31 a.m.

    It's not paranoia to acknowledge the facts, and to be prepared. There might be an earthquake sometime in the next 20 years in Utah. Or not. I have a year's supply of food, some water, and other emergency gear, and nobody in Utah thinks I'm nuts.

    Facts are that there are more guns than people in the United States, and there are a number of young men who are unstable, and who occasionally go off the deep end. You don't know who, and you don't know when. It's not paranoia to acknowledge this, and to be prepared to defend ourselves. And far more commonly, there are muggers, rapists, and robberies. Again, it's not paranoia to be prepared. And Kent - even Jesus told his followers in Luke 22:36 to buy swords. Not to mention the many places in scripture where the righteous defended themselves.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:13 a.m.

    Is "1984" happening in America?

    How long before we have to go to the government to get a permit to speak?

    How long before the government enters our homes and checks which books are on our shelves?

    How long before the government tells us which god to worship and how to conduct that worship?

    The liberal left has started that ball rolling. They think that they are exempt, just like they believed that their taxes wouldn't be raised by Obama. I hope that each of them has received a paycheck this year. I hope that each of them knows first-hand what it means to be lied to by the government.

    The government doesn't want to limit guns because of some "nut job". The government glories in "nut jobs". Those "nut jobs" make it easier for them to get the Left riled up. Those "nut jobs" make it easier for them to get the Left to march in step with all the others whose shoes stomp all over the Constitution.

    Go ahead. Get in line. Be an Obama puppet. It's your freedom that he's taking away.

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:45 a.m.

    2013.

    You still have your guns.

    The claim Obama is going to 'take' them is proven a lie.

    4 years and counting.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:12 p.m.

    Mike Richards,

    First, I think you are engaging in hyperbole with the 1984 allusions.

    It is not that such things cannot happen. Of course they could. I simply think that it is a long jump to that point.

    Reference taxes, the only tax change I have seen is the end of the tax holiday which was well known and should have been anticipated by all - so there was no “lie”. If folks were surprised, shame on them.

    Your point about nut jobs is true. It does rile folks up and make it easier to impose regulations that limit rights.

    But what DO we do about the nut jobs? They exist and always will. I don’t like the idea of banning certain firearms but what is the answer for the nut jobs? Education won’t stop them. Background checks won’t stop them. We risk a whole other set of constitutional problems if we just lock up anyone who seems a bit eccentric.

    You have identified a problem (the clash with constitutional rights) but what is the solution for the nut jobs who can access a firearm?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 12:14 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    Is "1984" happening in America?

    How long before we have to go to the government to get a permit to speak?
    [See Bush Patriot Act.]

    How long before the government enters our homes and checks which books are on our shelves?
    [See Conservative - Controversial alternate-marriage book-banning in Davis County, Deseret news June 14 2012.]

    How long before the government tells us which god to worship and how to conduct that worship?
    [Where were you when Muslims wanted to build a cultural center in New York. As I recall, you opposed them their rights. Some of you'd run every Non-Mormon run out of Utah -- with every Non-Republican Mormon right behind them.]

    Get over it Mike.
    Yours is the least free, most repressive, and most Un-Constituional form of Government America we could have.

    Banning books,
    Banning movies,
    Banning "Liberals"
    Banning abortions,
    Banning Homo-sexuals,
    Banning smoking, drinking, etc.

    I will agree that 1984 is happening,
    but it is from the ultra-far-right [ala, neo-Facsist Nazis] who are doing it.

    all in the name of God, State, Business, and Religion.
    No different that Shariah law based countries I might add.

  • Irony Guy Bountiful, Utah
    Jan. 23, 2013 2:27 p.m.

    Newel points out serious flaw in reasoning on the gun lobby's part--constantly comparing guns to cars, hammers, and baseball bats. These are false analogies. None of these other things are designed to kill. Guns are. If anything, they should be more regulated than automobiles are.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 3:40 p.m.

    It is paranoia to overreact.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 23, 2013 4:20 p.m.

    Demisana
    South Jordan, UT
    It's not paranoia to acknowledge the facts, and to be prepared. There might be an earthquake sometime in the next 20 years in Utah. Or not. I have a year's supply of food, some water, and other emergency gear, and nobody in Utah thinks I'm nuts.

    ============

    I lived in Seattle and California for over 20 years -- and guess what, we actually had and lived through 4 MAJOR earthquakes.

    No one used a gun.

    I also have a year's supply of food, water, cash and alternative fules for my vehicles [deisels running on vegatable oil] and alternative electrical energy sources [solar, wind, and some geo-thermal] and EVERYBODY in Utah thinks I'm nuts.

    I have enough food for my one family for a year,
    or enough food for 52 families for a week.
    I'll share my food, water, cash and energy.

    My gun is to protect my family from the vigilanties who think they're the Government, or who wish to over throw our Government.

    I guess you could say, I'm paranoid of those who are paranoid.

  • Flashback Kearns, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 6:07 p.m.

    I hate to take issue with Newell, but there is no such thing as a safety lock on any gun. Some have mechanical safeties that have to be disengaged by the operator to fire. Some don't. The best safety on a gun is to keep your finger off of the trigger. Every time someone gets behind the wheel of a car, there is the potential that someone can get killed. Granted, it doesn't happen very often, but it does happen. That potential exists 100% of the time.

    The only time my weapon can operate is when my finger depresses the trigger. Nothing will happen until that is done. I can carry my gun concealed and it is an inanimate object right up to the point in time that I put pressure on the trigger.

    Guns are not bad. Having them, by law abiding citizens is not bad. Having one that has a 30 round magazine is not bad. It is when they are acted upon by people with evil intent that is bad. Once you liberals get that through your head, we can have, at that point an intelligent conversation about guns.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 11:29 p.m.

    Newel, you apparently don't have a very high opinion of your fellow teachers. If they are willing to go through intensive training and are judged mentally sound, they should be allowed to carry concealed, with the blessing of the administration. The title of "teacher" doesn't make them any less capable of becoming well trained. They are already on the scene with the children each day and in the best position to be first responders if one of these rare-but-horrific incidents starts.

    No, this is not the old west any more, but there are just as many (if not more) "bad guys" who will attempt to rob, rape, kidnap, injure, or kill if they think they can get away with it. But in places where it's widely known that law-abiding adults are allowed to carry concealed, these horrific incidents do not tend to occur.

  • cjb Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 25, 2013 6:08 p.m.

    Unless we commit to providing the mentally ill the help they need, There are only two possible outcomes in the path President Obama has proposed. Failure or total confiscation of ALL guns. If Obama succeeds in taking all military style weapons, the mal adjusted in our society will then use non military style guns to do what they do. If we don't take these away too, that would be failure in stopping gun violence. We're we to take those away too, then all guns would be confiscated.

    They will not stop at taking military style guns. To propect the 2nd Ammendment, not to mention do the right thing by those who suffer from mental illness, we must resolve to providing All of the mentally ill the help they need.