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Letters: No regard for our Second Amendment rights

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  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 12:45 a.m.

    We spend as much on defense as the rest of the world combined, and most of the other big spenders are our allies. Spending a little bit less is not going to make us vulnerable. We could cut our defense spending by 80% and still spend more than China,the number two spender. Not that anyone is proposing cuts of that magnitude.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 5:10 a.m.

    Oh please... even after anything Obama proposes this nation will have a defense budget more than 4x that of 2nd place China and still have the highest gun per person ratio in the world. You people are paranoid...

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 5:26 a.m.

    Kim, I don't understand your letter at all. Where on earth are you getting the idea that the president wants to reduce military spending to the point of only using "sweet talk" against terrorists? And what proposal has the president given that would restrict 2nd Amendment rights to the point of only allowing "BB guns"? You need to read more newspaper articles.

    Your hyperbole is what's wrong with this country. You're outraged, but you don't know why. You are making things up to fuel that outrage, but you don't know that you are completely wrong. You have a wealth of information at your fingertips, but you choose to ignore it.

    Unbelievable.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:33 a.m.

    @ Kim: Let's suppose you want to buy a car. The dealership shows you two options. Option one is a classic - it has been around for a number of years and reflects the best technology from when it was built. It is also big and bulky, it lacks many of the modern conveniences that cars come with, it gets lousy mileage, and costs lots of money. Option two is hot off the assembly line. While smaller and sleeker it is still sufficiently large to meet your capacity based needs, it is chock full of all the latest technology, it has a higher safety rating than option 1, it gets excellent gas mileage, and costs about half of option 1.

    Do you buy the classic because it is the classic and costs more, or do you buy the car that actually meets your needs?

    According to top military personnel, this is the situation the military faces.

    The question you need to ask yourself is do you want an expensive military or a strong, safe military? Because we can have the second without spending all the money required for the first.

  • Maudine SLC, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:45 a.m.

    President Obama's proposals and executive orders are designed to make it more difficult for the rapists, murderers, terrorists, and individuals with certain clinical mental illness diagnosises from being able to purchase guns or use their loved ones' guns to kill their loved ones and then go on shooting rampages with said guns.

    Someone who, for whatever reason, cannot legally buy and own a gun in their state of primary residence should not be able to go to a gun show or answer an ad or cross state lines and buy one. Nor should someone else be able to buy it for them.

    These are common sense regulations.

  • CHS 85 Sandy, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:48 a.m.

    A scalpel needs to be taken to all federal agencies - DOD included. Unnecessary and overlapping programs need to be either eliminated or consolidated. The Department of Defense does not get a free pass to have whatever they want. Hard questions need to be answered and hard decisions need to be made. The agency I work for has been slashed. Vacant positions have not been filled, programs have been eliminated and/or consolidated and we are more lean, efficient organization after being slashed. We still accomplish our mission, but for far less taxpayer money.

    How many aircraft carriers do we NEED, not WANT? How many Army and Air Force bases do we need in the European theater? Couldn't those troops be just as effective stationed in the United States? Is that four-hour plane ride worth the billions we spend every year? Hard decisions to be made by rational, knowledgeable people is what we need, not silly rhetoric.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 7:49 a.m.

    Civilization is a process where we voluntarily give up some, perhaps lesser, rights and freedoms in exchange for other rights and freedoms that are more dear to us. The problem with civilization is that as we gain more people and pack them in tighter the need for this exchange becomes more important and mandatory.

    The unlimited, unregulated, non-infringed right to own and use a device, made expressly for killing, when compared to the safety, security and peace of mind for the general public must be limited, regulated and infringed.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:31 a.m.

    Amen, to Ultra Bob. The movie Lincoln makes that specific point, that a civilized society is required to make tradoffs, and that an infringment on one liberty is many times simply a tradoff for a greater and more valuable liberty. Air quality standards, CDC standards, and in this case a restriction on killing capacity.

    To the DN..come on, on one page you print a resaonably written editorial, and then below it print another hyperbolic rant that even you know makes no sense (referencing your editorial). If you hadn't all ready printed a dozen of these maybe, but come on.

  • Bergbub Midway, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:37 a.m.

    Why on earth does the Deseret News continue to publish silly letters like this on a daily basis? Kim, have you ever read the Constitution or the Second Amendment? I would assume not. Are assault gun owners today part of a well regulated militia? Are they packing muskets? I think not. Assault rifles have no place on the street, unless carried by law enforcement, and not in the hands of the delusional yahoo down the street who thinks he's Boss Hog or part of some possee protecting us from terrorists. As part of a greater good we all have to sacrifice, and the safety of all must trump the desire of some to pack an uzi. Keep your handgun, keep your hunting rifle, and please quit whining. It's the only moral thing to do.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:50 a.m.

    Is this letter part of the solution or part of the problem?

    May I submit that it is the latter?

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:55 a.m.

    I spent 2 years in one of the world's most violent cities as a LDS missionary.

    We heard gun shots ringing out almost ever night.

    My companions and I during that time stopped 4 rapes, 2 burglaries, and witnessed 2 beatings to which he gave affidavites to the police....not to mention almost getting beat up ourselves numerous times.

    We NEVER carried a weapon.
    and I have know doubt I'm alive today because we didn't.

    Was I scared? Yes at times, in the beginning.

    But I grew more and more confident as time went on - and it wasn't just becuase the "Lord" was protecting me, it's because I soon realized the odds were always in my favor.

    Using the scaredy-cat insecurity right-to-bare-arms answer to all problems,
    The LDS Church should be sending 60,000 missionaries out with semi-automatic glocks and .38 specials along with their Scriptures.

    Like that young man in Tiannanmen Square,
    who stood up to the tank, and even placed a flower in the cannon.
    He bravely stood his ground, and won the battle.

    Faith, Hope, and Charity.

    THAT'S the answer.
    Not more and more, and everyone packing assault rifles.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 8:58 a.m.

    Open Minded, that is one GREAT comment! Thank you.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:08 a.m.

    I'd bet you're not a part of a 'well regulated militia', are you? Talk about disregarding the second amendment. Besides, you're not allowed to own ballistic missiles, so the line is drawn somewhere. And, even with the proposed changes, you'll still have your 'terr'ist huntin' guns'.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:37 a.m.

    By all means, OMM, let's disarm the police and the military. Let's let them deal with things as if they were Nephi or Ammon. Let's disregard Captain Moroni who raised the banner of liberty and demanded that the government supply men, arms and supplies to enable him to do his job. Let's disregard King David who demanded that men, arms and supplies be sent to help do the job that he had to do. Let's just focus on you and your solution. Let's all gather around the campfire and sing your peace songs; you, who tell us that you were part of a rifle company in the military; you, who (incorrectly) told us that you swore and oath to defend the government of the United States when you should have told us that you swore and oath to defend the Constitution; you, who talks about using force against the "wack-jbs". You go ahead and change your story whenever it is convenient.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:46 a.m.

    @mike
    please tell us where OMM made the case for disarming the police or military mike. you do know we can all read their post as well as yours right?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 9:56 a.m.

    I'm beginning to wonder if Mike Richards is one of those in my high priest group whose hateful comments make it very difficult to attend church on Sunday.

    Is it apostasy to quit attending because you are so disgusted with what you hear there?

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:07 a.m.

    @Mike Richards: You seem to be very intent on the original intent of the founding fathers. You know that they almost single one of them was adamantly opposed to maintaining a standing army don't you? You know that this country never maintained a standing army until after WWII don't you? How do you reconcile support for a standing army with support for the wishes of the founders?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:26 a.m.

    One old man.... you need to keep attending to counter the high priest crazies. Not leave. It has been long enough that the bircher types have cast a negative cloak over our church and its members. We don't all hate. We are not all paranoid. We are not all anti-US Government. It amazes me that these so called patriots hold their own representative government in such disdain. We need men of peace in the high priest meetings.... not people who hold their neighbors in disdain.

    Mike Richards..... just try... once..... to not attack people or their ideas. Give it a try. Put something positive forward.

    And who said anything about disarming the police, military or anyone else. For crying out loud, you really need 100 round clips to defend your house? Perhaps instead of "spray and pray"... these people actually learn how to use their weapons.

    I have no problem with gun ownership... I have guns. I like guns. But the rhetoric now days makes gun owners look like.... whats the word Mike.... "whack-jobs".

    Using scriptures to try to justify your disdain of others.... really. What's next.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:36 a.m.

    Roland Kayser
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    @Mike Richards: You seem to be very intent on the original intent of the founding fathers.

    [Agreed. I believe all these 1776 purity extremeists - would still support slavery, and strip away women's rights, given the chance. And yet ironically - aren't these the same one's constantly meddling with and trampling the Constitution by ammending it when they don't get their way?]

    ================

    one old man
    Ogden, UT
    I'm beginning to wonder if Mike Richards is one of those in my high priest group whose hateful comments make it very difficult to attend church on Sunday.

    [Agreed. I'd also bet Mike Richards has pushed more AWAY from Christ, than brought TOWARD Christ.]

  • glendenbg Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:41 a.m.

    This letter isn't about second amendment rights or defense budgets, this is a letter about fear. Reread the first sentences of the first two paragraphs - they are litanies of things of which the author is afraid. It's fair to ask if those fears are realistic and if the author's implied solutions (more guns, more defense spending) would actually address the source of her fears.

    FDR's great quote that "we have nothing to fear but fear itself" doesn't end there - he added "nameless, unreasoning, unjustified terror which paralyzes needed efforts to convert retreat into advance." Overreacting to real world problems is as harmful as ignoring them. Governed by fear - whether its of criminals or terrorists - we will make mistakes, we will overreact, we will harm ourselves and others.

    According to the FBI, crime rates and low and falling. Terrorists aren't flooding across our borders. There are criminals and there are terrorists, but turning those real world dangers into some cosmic asteroid threatening life itself is a paralyzing and unreasoning fear which prevents us from doing what is needed.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:43 a.m.

    Mike Richards:

    I guess I'm not surprised that you, the epitome of righteousness, would extol Captain Moroni, who sought and obtained "power to compel those dissenters to defend their country or to put them to death," who killed 4,000 such dissenters who resisted conscription, and who imprisoned, without trial, their leaders who were not killed. And I'm sure you do not see the irony in the fact that the remainder of the dissenters "were compelled to hoist the title of liberty."

    So much for liberty and agency. Desperate times call for desperate measures, right?

    Let's see, who was it who originally wanted to compel people to be good?

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:45 a.m.

    OMM, Yes there are places where gang rule is the law and the "God men or women", or missionaries, or nuns, are respected and not bothered, after the gang members totally follow them and check out what they are doing and make sure they won't be a threat to their dominion. But if the "God men and women" were to ever get enough followers to even look like they could be a challenge to the control and power of the gang, they would find themselves looking at the wrong end of a gun, just like everyone else in those neighborhoods.

    I feel for the people who live under the threat of those regimes. It is a far cry from freedom.

    And if you think that your way always works on this earth, go try it in the middle east, where they do think Mormon missionaries are a threat to their power. Be sure to tell everyone you love good-bye and that you love them before you go.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:55 a.m.

    "It appears that there is no regard for our Second Amendment or the proper role of our federal government as defined by our Constitution."
    ______________________________

    It's exasperating to read irrational statements like that. The Second Amendment and the proper role of the Federal government is PRESCISElY what the President is speaking in regards to. Inverting the argument and jumping to wild conclusions about a perceived sinister intent to abrogate freedom underscores why we're having this debate. If the availability of certain types weapons and complacency with the status quo is unreviewed, it helps perpetuate a growing menace to public safety that outweighs the benefits of leaving things as they are.

    Thank heaven the President is addressing a problem we've ignored at our own peril for far too long. That's the worst nightmare of a gun manufacturing industry whose pursuit of profit outweighs its sense of public responsibility.
    We've seen these

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:58 a.m.

    Christian 24-7
    Murray, UT

    I don't recall ever hearing about the entire Amish community raising up taking up arms and AR-15s or AK-47s after their massacare.

    I can only supppose THEY make the better Christians.

    I will pray for you, and the rest of the radical, extremeist Mormons on these boards.

    ~Peace

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 10:59 a.m.

    Have conservatives abandoned all rational thought? Can they think for themselves? Are they so caught up in regurgitation the vitriol against the President that they no longer think before they attack?

    Is a .08 percent cut to defense ($60 billion annually to our nearly $700 billion bloated defense budget) really going to "decimate" our military?

    Is asking persons to pass a background check really an infringement upon our freedoms? Does one really need to have endless amounts of ammunition and semi-automatic weapons to defend themselves and to hunt?

    Again, has the radical right completely abandoned all rational thought? Do they really hate President Obama so much that they would speak out against common sense? Time for the GOP and its followers to wake up and smell the hot chocolate.

  • Craig Clark Boulder, CO
    Jan. 18, 2013 11:20 a.m.

    The Real Maverick,

    "Is asking persons to pass a background check really an infringement upon our freedoms?"
    ______________________________

    No more so than any public law that needs to be obeyed. Carried to the extereme, it can become an argument for total anarchy. The only law then will be the law of the jungle.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 11:24 a.m.

    Christian 24-7 - again, not really sure where you get your information. But for example, there are about 110,000 Christians living in Tehran, Iran. Yes, they are a minority, and as such, suffer the safe challenges any minority lives under. But they are there... and growing. In 1996 there were only 75,000.

    In Saudi Arabia.. there are about 1.2 million Christian, mostly foreigners, working in the my industry. No they are not allowed churches... no churches are allowed. But they are their, they meet at designated places, like Embassies and consulates to worship. Saudi Arabia is the extreme... but blanket statements like yours really show.

    I go to Dubai and Saudi Arabia all the time, they know I am Christian... even Mormon.... we even talk about our faiths. Your comment is just silly. It comes down to respect. As long as you show respect, there is nothing to fear.

    And tell me, if Muslim missionaries started knocking on doors... how do you think that would go in many parts of our own country?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Jan. 18, 2013 11:42 a.m.

    I like how people like to throw the word "Extremist" around without having a clue as to what it even means. Here is the definition of it.

    ex·trem·ist (k-strmst)
    n.
    One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

    From the definition, conserving 2nd amendment rights is not extremism. It's those anti-american new world order democrats who want to eviscerate the constiution who are the extremists by definition.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Jan. 18, 2013 12:17 p.m.

    ex·trem·ist (k-strmst)
    n.
    One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

    Me - personally - lying is beyond the norm.... but then again in politics.... perhaps it is the norm.

    Pretty sad.

  • Open Minded Mormon Everett, 00
    Jan. 18, 2013 1:17 p.m.

    Anti Bush-Obama
    Washington, DC
    I like how people like to throw the word "Extremist" around without having a clue as to what it even means. Here is the definition of it.

    ex·trem·ist (k-strmst)
    n.
    One who advocates or resorts to measures beyond the norm, especially in politics.

    ==============

    You mean like:
    Signing petitions to sucede when your guy does win?
    Insisting on having .223 assault rifles with high capacity clips?
    making ZERO exceptions for aboration [life, health, rape, incest, ect.]
    not allowing ANY muslims their religous rights.
    walking into a JCPenny's with an AR-15 over one shoulder and a Glock on your hip?
    like making up stories that Sandy Hook was staged so Obama could come take your guns?

    All not very "normal"
    All for politcal reasons.

    There's a very clear reason why the Far-Right-Wing is being called -- Extremeist!

  • SteveD North Salt Lake, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 1:30 p.m.

    Idological, missinformed statements like this are just as bad as those made by the left wing nuts. Fact are facts and neither extreme side seems to care about facts.
    Obama has not proposed anything that would violate the second ammendment, not one single thing. But, what worries me is the proposals he is making will do nothing to curb gun violence. And coupled with his statements about "doing what ever is neccessary", he has shown he is willing to violate the second amemndment. So after these laws are passed, (If they are) along with the last 50 or so and they still do nothing about the gun death rates. Then What?

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 1:32 p.m.

    UtahBlue

    Oh I recognize there are Christians throughout the Middle East, but I said missionaries. Most Middle East countries with stable governments don't allow missionaries because they see them as a threat to their power. Then there are the countries without stable governments, which don't allow missionaries either, for the same reason, only they are more likely to stop them with bullets than arrests.

    OMM also specified a most violent city. Your cities were hardly the most violent cities in the Middle East.

    I stand by what I said.

    OMM I don't think that protecting children, by carrying arms, makes people any less Christian. I oppose child (and human) sacrifice in all forms.

    I also respect the Amish beliefs on what is best means for protecting their children, I just don't happen to be Amish nor do I choose the same way. I would be honored to be able to protect them, by bearing arms, if needed.

    My reading of the Bible tells me that God does support His people taking up arms in their own (and family's) defense, in the defense of others, and in His causes.

  • JustGordon Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 18, 2013 4:13 p.m.

    I sometimes wonder why a letter like this one, filled with obvious misstatements and misrepresentations, would get published. Doing so only encourages others who believe similarly weak minded allegations do continue to spew such dribble.

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 12:24 a.m.

    Do these guys even listen to what they're saying? It's all crazy talk. From the fearful rhetoric that basic gun rights are being taken away to the extreme crazies involved in the conspiracy nonsense regarding the Sandy Hook massacre, there is absolutely no talking with these folk.

    And the argument elucidated on Fox News that these guns are necessary to fight a tyrannical government is really the last gasps of angry, extremist conservatives. They spend their time shouting about the Constitution and the 2nd Amendment and are the same people signing petitions for their states to succeed from the union. They rant that nobody loves America like they do and yet propose an agenda to destroy America. Apparently, Democracy is not for them when they can't have everything their way. They are afraid of change and want to take "their" America back. To what, no one knows.

    The idea that the Founding Fathers envisioned a country where the people would have to rise up against themselves is beyond absurd. A "well-regulated militia" was not intended to violently contest election results.

  • Ali'ikai 'A'amakualenalena Provo, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 12:40 a.m.

    Perhaps what is needed for individual states to enact more draconian measure to reduce gun violence and the Second Amendment wouldn't even be an issue. There is nothing to prevent states from passing legislation, even banning the possession of guns, since they have ultimate authority.

    Since the argument isn't at all about the Second Amendment and is all about eventaully fighting a tyrannical government sometime in the future, let's stop all the silliness and address the concerns of those survivalist-types caught up in a frenzy of psychotic paranoia and who fear the coming of the black helicopters. However, this cannot be rationally discussed in this thread because we are now dealing with a mental health issue.

    The conspiracy people see a threat under every rock. It is difficult to argue with their reality because it is so vastly different from mainstream America. Perhaps they are harmless until they feel threatened; then they will come out shooting like they claim. They just don't understand the uneasyness they generate in the larger population when they talk about going to war against America.

  • The Sensible Middle Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 6:03 a.m.

    Fortunately 2nd annendment rights will probably not be taken away, at least this go round. Supporters of the second amendment need to also be supporters of ... the government Is some times the solution ... . We need to ensure that all of the mentally ill get the treatment and support they need and the government is best situated to see that this happens.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 9:40 a.m.

    Lots of moralist, judgmental opinions on both sides. It's not clear whether it's funny or sad.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Jan. 19, 2013 10:27 a.m.

    What country are most of the posters citizens of? Look at what some are saying. They think that they have somehow been appointed to be America's "wise men". They think that they have the right to reject the Constitution and replace it with one of their own.

    The Constitution is the voice of the people. It required 75% of the States to ratify it. The Constitution can be changed but it requires the 75% of the States ratify any amendment. There is not some panel of "wise men" appointed to change the Constitution.

    This very thread shows why we have a Constitution. There are many in America who would seize power "for the good of the country". This very thread shows the importance of requiring 75% of the states to ratify any changes to the supreme law of the land.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Jan. 19, 2013 11:01 a.m.

    It's a concrete fact as from my previous post, That anything proposed in congress that takes away the constiutional rights of law abiding citizens is extremism. That's the reality that none of you will accept.

    The man broke no law except the law in your imagination by carrying a gun in the store. It it makes you unconfortable, leave.

    Who are you to have a monopoly on when people can oppose anything or not? That is authoritarianism sir.

    When have I ever said anything about opposing the religous rights of muslims? Show me a date.

    Yes I have signed the petition to seceed. And if that makes me a traitor in your eyes, I really don't care because i'm not doing this to make friends.

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Jan. 19, 2013 11:11 a.m.

    Another, thing, If they want to change the law, they need to do it legally through the proper channels. Executive orders that violate the constiutional rights of law abiding American citizens are ILLEGAL.

    Soon they are going to be saying that they don't need congress at all and that they can just issue executive orders for anything.

    This is does not help the mentally ill also. They will just use other ways in the future. Chainsaws, Cyanide, or home made pipe bombs. Whats going to happen when one of them decides to run a bunch of pedestrians down? Are we going to let them take our vehicles away? give me a break.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 11:16 a.m.

    To one old man 9:56 a.m. Jan. 18, 2013

    Is it apostasy to quit attending because you are so disgusted with what you hear there?

    -------------------------

    It sounds like you are facing the issue my husband and I faced about 25 years ago (when the more "conservative" members of our Ward, men and women both, couldn't undertand how my husband could "let" me go to law school, or why I would want a career instead of just raising children). We kept attending -- we realized the problem was theirs, not ours, since we were doing what our Heavenly Father directed us to do. Our Bishop gave us some very good counsel -- the Gospel is true; the people often aren't, and the ones who werre causing trouble for us would ultimately have to answer for their actions. He then called me to teach Gospel Doctrine, to force them to deal with me.

    My advice? Keep attending. Keep speaking out. Don't let the actions of others affect your spiritual growth and nurture. Don't let their actions control yours. Keep yourself in line with Gospel standards, and just ignore the people who try to tear you down.

  • Dave D Pocatello, ID
    Jan. 19, 2013 2:37 p.m.

    "How are we going to defend ourselves from evil that exists in this world? With BB guns or sweet talk?"

    NO! I will defend myself the same way the Anti-Nephi-Lehis and Jesus did: By teaching true principles of PEACE, living my life with non-violent resistence, and letting whatever happens, happen. Our president is doing very little to limit your right to bear arms. Please calm down.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 4:58 p.m.

    Dave D
    Pocatello, ID
    "How are we going to defend ourselves from evil that exists in this world? With BB guns or sweet talk?"

    NO! I will defend myself the same way the Anti-Nephi-Lehis and Jesus did: By teaching true principles of PEACE,

    --------

    Agreed. Great comment.

    Remember too - when Peter drew his sword to defend the Son of God,
    Jesus rebuked him, and told him to put it away.

    Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword.

    Amla and Amulek were forced to watch women and child thrown into the fires.
    Amulek knew Alma had the power of God within him, and asked him why he didn't do anything to stop the horror.

    Alma told him that the wicked must be allowed to do their wickedness.
    [Also a plug for that whole Free Agency and not Forcing others to do the right.]

    Wise words indeed.

    Conservatives should turn of their radios and read the scriptures.

  • Ying Fah Provo, UT
    Jan. 19, 2013 6:27 p.m.

    Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    9:37 a.m. Jan. 18, 2013

    And how does this relate to Xenu and the coming of thetans to Teegeeack (earth) and the ensuing global conflict and the R6 implant? There must be a connection to your narrative and how it merges with the current need to fight tyrannical oppressors.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Jan. 19, 2013 7:19 p.m.

    Is there a national reading comprehension problem? Nobody has said they are taking your guns!

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 8:43 a.m.

    Those having militia guns should register their milita and reason to want weapons.

  • Peter Coyotl West Jordan, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 11:52 a.m.

    Soon Glenn Beck will convince the latter writer that the President is trying to take away our freedom to "sweet talk."

  • Pagan Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 20, 2013 1:41 p.m.

    20 children are dead.

    Your guns did not protect them.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 20, 2013 2:44 p.m.

    @Maudine

    "President Obama's proposals and executive orders are designed to make it more difficult for the rapists, murderers, terrorists, and individuals with certain clinical mental illness diagnosises from being able to purchase guns or use their loved ones' guns to kill their loved ones and then go on shooting rampages with said guns.

    Someone who, for whatever reason, cannot legally buy and own a gun in their state of primary residence should not be able to go to a gun show or answer an ad or cross state lines and buy one. Nor should someone else be able to buy it for them."

    They will just buy them on the black market. When the 18th amendment was passed which had mandated prohibition on alcohol, gangsters, such as Chicago's Al Capone, became rich from a profitable, often violent, black market for alcohol. The federal government was incapable of stemming the tide

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Jan. 21, 2013 10:16 a.m.

    zoar63
    Mesa, AZ

    They will just buy them on the black market. When the 18th amendment was passed which had mandated prohibition on alcohol, gangsters, such as Chicago's Al Capone, became rich from a profitable, often violent, black market for alcohol. The federal government was incapable of stemming the tide

    2:44 p.m. Jan. 20, 2013

    =========

    You've just made a perfect case for the legalization os Marijuana.
    Is that what you intended to convinced us of?

  • Anti Bush-Obama Washington, DC
    Jan. 22, 2013 10:21 a.m.

    Agreed. Great comment.

    "Remember too - when Peter drew his sword to defend the Son of God,
    Jesus rebuked him, and told him to put it away.

    Those who live by the sword, shall die by the sword.

    Amla and Amulek were forced to watch women and child thrown into the fires.
    Amulek knew Alma had the power of God within him, and asked him why he didn't do anything to stop the horror.

    Alma told him that the wicked must be allowed to do their wickedness.
    [Also a plug for that whole Free Agency and not Forcing others to do the right.]

    Wise words indeed.

    Conservatives should turn of their radios and read the scriptures."

    Great life to live by if you actually believe in it and from comments I read about you bragging about how many guns you own, it's clear that you do not. If you don't believe in guns and don't want anybody to have them , then you can start by getting rid of your own. If you don't like guns then don't own any. It's really that simple.

  • zoar63 Mesa, AZ
    Jan. 22, 2013 12:37 p.m.

    @LDS LIBERAL

    "Wise words indeed.

    Conservatives should turn of their radios and read the scriptures."

    I took your advice and found this in the BOM
    See Alma 43:45-47

  • homebrew South Jordan, UT
    Jan. 23, 2013 3:38 p.m.

    The original 2nd ammendment talked about "A well regulared militia being necessary to free states" "the right to bear arms shall not be infringed. Where does it say you can own any weapon you like? Arms at the time, consisted of a single shot musket. In the old west in dodge city, and tombstone, there were gun control laws. When a well regulated militia becomes an unregulated populace of gun loonies, something needs to be done. Noone is going to take your deer rifles, shotguns, and pistols. Millitary style weapons, and bullets are what is being dicussed. If you want to own millitary style weapons, then join the millitary.