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Brad Rock: Cougars' possible return to the MWC makes for good fiction

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  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 9:38 p.m.

    Why don't you guys just join the prestigious PAC 12 or big 12? Then you would be fighting for a prestigious conference championship and prestigious bowl game every year. I don't get why you guys would rather just fight for WAC championships. Can a cougar explain please?

  • Fuzz Springville, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 9:45 p.m.

    Am I the only one that's sick and tired of the TV revenue rhetoric? I thought BYU was all about exposure, not money. I guess that was just a joke. BYU being independent is a disservice to its players and fans...nobody seems to care about that. As soon as BYU's first inevitable loss occurs, the season is over. That sucks. Being in the MWC at least gives you something to play for after that first loss. I hate BYU being independent. It's just like Riley Nelson. Selfish and self-centered. Forget about the team.

  • 4601 Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 10:13 p.m.

    Chris,
    Pretty easy to explain. The WCC has no Sunday play, has higher academic standards then the majority of PAC-12 schools and provides a faith based education. Even a Ute fan should understand that.

  • Just the FAX Olympus Cove, Utah
    Jan. 12, 2013 10:19 p.m.

    chrissy

    "Why don't you guys just join the prestigious PAC 12 or big 12? Then you would be fighting for a prestigious conference championship and prestigious bowl game every year."

    Yes, we've all seen how all of that "fighting for a prestigious... whatever" is working out for the Utes.

    Tell ya what; why don't U call us the first time the Utes beat a conference opponent with a winning record?

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 11:17 p.m.

    @ Just the FAX

    So, according to you, BYU isn't going to join a great conference because Utah has struggled in it's first two years? Weird.

  • Fuzz Springville, UT
    Jan. 12, 2013 11:20 p.m.

    Hasn't BYU beaten a couple PAC 12 opponents with winning records the last 2 years?

  • sky2k1 Provo, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 12:04 a.m.

    The Cougars have come just as close to winning the Pac-12 championship as the Utes have in basketball and football. I know I shouldn't feed the troll, but I just can't help it.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    Jan. 13, 2013 12:35 a.m.

    Ahh the pleasures of independence. Why, let me tell you about how wonderful it is....it's....well, it's just,,,,,,well, we love it! True, it's not for everybody, but it provides so much---er---umm---it really free's us up to....umm, well uh....

  • Jimmer3More Wasilla, AK
    Jan. 13, 2013 1:14 a.m.

    I think it is great, I haven't missed a game and most of them are in high definition. I also like our chances in the three bid WCC. All of the sports have improved and we can get the best programing available. INDEPENDENCE ROCKS. ESPN3 and game day replay rocks. GO COUGARS.

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 1:37 a.m.

    Chris B wonders "Why don't you guys just join the prestigious PAC 12 or big 12?"

    One does not simply "just join" a BCS Conference. It is invitation only.

  • Pa. Reader Harrisburg, PA
    Jan. 13, 2013 8:05 a.m.

    If BYU enters into any new conference agreement I hope it's for football only.
    The WCC fit is ideal for the university. It's true the basketball team plays in smaller venues, but competition is with faith based institutions that are respectful of the Y's no Sunday policy, and the level of hoops play is very good. In my opinion, the WCC is a perfect home for the Cougars. They should stay put and help advance the stature of the WCC.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    Jan. 13, 2013 8:18 a.m.

    @Fuzz - a loss in the PAC12 dooms their NC hopes, too. Utah has no realistic hope of an NC just because they're in the PAC12. Rather the opposite.

    The only teams not named Alabama with a realistic expectation of an NC game in the current idiocy are three teams in the SEC and maybe one in the Big12. Ohio State with Urban Meyer and his criminals will get a shot next year. Oregon or Stanford might get a shot.

    So what does Utah or Oregon State play for? Wins. A bowl game. Pride. Ranking.

    What does BYU play for? Wins. A bowl game. Pride. Ranking.

    And BYU gets every game on TV. And plays cool teams all over the country. SEC plays Bo Diddley Tech out of conference.

    OTOH, Utah, Washington, WSU, Alabama have all backed out of games with BYU. Afraid to play BYU? Frankly, yes. Only on thing may be the impetus driving BYU back to a conference: scheduling.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 9:49 a.m.

    @BlueHusky

    "Ohio State with Urban Meyer and his criminals will get a shot next year."

    Judge not lest ye ... ah forget it, you and your fellow cougs will continue throwing stones from your glass houses regardless.

    By the way, scared to play BYU? Yeah, that's why we scheduled a stronger team in Michigan instead. I'll tell you what, I'd love some of whatever it is you're having.

  • Kyle loves BYU/Jazz Provo, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 10:40 a.m.

    The best part of being independent is the exposure. I can watch just about every BYU basketball and football game. It's awesome. What other university can say that?

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 11:06 a.m.

    The bottom line is that BYU simply doesn't work and play well with others.

    Oh, and let's be clear... Utah brought more money to the MWC with two BCS games than BYU ever did.

  • CKS007 Clearfield, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 11:48 a.m.

    Chris B: You can't just join a conference. You have to be invited. So who wants BYU? Not the PAC-12 they have the Utah market wrapped up. Not the Big-12 as they are looking east. Not the Big-10, ACC or SEC (too far and too big for BYU). If there was an interest in BYU, then they would already be a member. Any of those conferences would give you more exposure than independence. The Mountain West would be good for BYU, but their ego won't let them look at real life. The Mt West is now the best of the rest and with the new play off system, should see a lot of money and exposure. Instead BYU wants to stay in fantasyland. Good luck with that.

  • anti BCS Anaheim, CA
    Jan. 13, 2013 12:06 p.m.

    Howard S.

    The bottom line is that Utah was so desperate to be considered "one of the big boys" that they were willing to become a perennial conference doormat just to be associated with the big boys.

    btw, how much money is Utah bringing to the PAC 12?

    UNLV would have added more value to the conference than they've gotten from Utah - at least the Rebels have a basketball team.

  • Jim1027 St. George, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 12:30 p.m.

    When? and if? Utah starts winning Pac12 games then we can say it was a good decision to join. In the meantime, they are getting beat up on the field, in the press, and by fans. I guess being the doormat is not that fun.

    Realistically, when do they expect to start beating Oregon, Cal, Standford, USC, UCLA, and the Arizona teams? What new event will trigger that advance in winning?

    Will their coach get better? No.

    Will their recruting get better related to the big boys in the PAC? No.

    Will their players get a big swaggering winning attitude in the meantime? No.

    I'd say the team up North should start praying.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Jan. 13, 2013 12:29 p.m.

    Having SDSU and BYU return to the MWC would be awkward to say the least. First, there's that poison pen letter San Diego State wrote about the Cougars that wasn't supposed to become public. Then there's the never ending "We Wuz Wobbed!" rhetoric from the last game the Aztecs played in Provo.

    If you get past that, then you have to face Air Force who not only humiliated BYU the last time they met on the gridiron, but played "Hit the Road Jack" on the loudspeakers after the game.

    Then there's Nevada and Fresno State who assured BYU they would stick with the WAC through thick and thin unless of course they didn't feel like it.

    Let's not forget about Utah State who still is smarting over BYU insisting on 2 for 1 contracts for football after they went out on a limb for them.

    Its a sad state of affairs when the most friendly faces BYU could look forward if they return to the MWC are the Wyoming Cowboy fans in Laramie.

    I say BYU stands pat.

  • GTwo Rockledge, FL
    Jan. 13, 2013 1:23 p.m.

    Fuzz, you jumped to a lot of unsubstantiated conclusions. Do columnists and sportscasters set school policy? Nope.

    I think independence has been GREAT! I see the team more now than ever. Exposure on TV, Radio, and News is greatly increased. The team is playing in more locations than ever. Better than the same old tired places. This is exposure and it is great.

    Sure, I wish they would win every game. They don't. Few do. Most never have. Yet somehow they teams show up to play every year. Imagine that. And even after they lose a game or 10 they keep playing. Wow.

    Lighten up. Independence has been good. Things are far, far better than it every was in the MWC in my opinion.

  • Austin Coug Pflugerville, TX
    Jan. 13, 2013 2:15 p.m.

    Henry Drummond,

    Interesting you bring up AFA. BYU is 24-7 lifetime against AFA and had beat them 6 times in a row before their loss in 2010. You are making a big deal out of nothing. BYU and AFA have had a good series together and will play again in the future.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    Byu would dominate every conference so there only being fair by independence.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 3:26 p.m.

    anti BCS
    Anaheim, CA

    How much has Utah brought to the PAC? Actually about $2 million from last years Sun Bowl.
    Which is more than BYU has earned from 2 Poinsettia Bowls.

    Oh and in the lifetime of the MWC Utah brought about $30 million just from the Fiesta and Sugar bowls. BYU brought less than $10 million from their series of 3rd tier bowl games.

    Utah Desperate to be one of the big boys? Better than being rejected by every major conference in the county.

    As for UNLV... let's just say they have a better chance of an PAC invite than BYU.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 5:35 p.m.

    I love independence. I have absolutely no desire for BYU to join any conference. Just because utah must have other, greater schools to prop it up and lend it some small modicum of credibility, BYU does not need that. They are able to stand on their own. I really like it.

  • CougarBlue Heber City, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 6:43 p.m.

    Dear Fuzz, just because a sports writers says it is about money does not make it true.

    I have never heard BYU or anyone in authority say they are doing this because of the money. Quit reading between the lines and stick to the facts. Yes, they are making more money, but BYU has consistenly stated they are doing this to get more exposure for the University and for the Church. That is the bottom line. Before we, maybe, got into the homes of several million, now they are in the homes of up to 60 million through ESPN and BYUTV. I hope this is simple enough to understand.

    Don't forget FUZZ, it does take money to run a sports program. Everyone does not simply volunteer their time and the airlines do not give them free flights, nor do the athletic companies donate their equipment. The refs are not free. It does cost maintenance for the field and the lights. So, I simply do not understand why you are having a problem with them wanting to make money.

  • bigddan11 Odessa, TX
    Jan. 13, 2013 6:45 p.m.

    How exactly is Utah scheduling up when they replaced BYU with Fresno State, not Michigan. Utah straight out said they didn't want BYU on 2014-15 because they didn't want to risk losing 2 non-conference games. On the other hand BYU scheduled Michigan in 2015 in addition to their games at Nebraska, at Southern Miss, and home against Boise State and Cincinnati.

  • Kralon HUNTINGTON BEACH, CA
    Jan. 13, 2013 8:05 p.m.

    Independence is much better!

    The good:
    1. In spite of what CKS007 says there is less exposure in the MWC than being independent. At least that is true for BYU! Only six football teams last year had more TV exposure than BYU which also helps with recruiting.
    2. BYU gets to play an overall tougher schedule in Football which will help BYU get better and helps with recruiting. In Basketball it is kind of a wash as the MWC is really good this year.
    3. More ability to play all over the country which helps with exposure and recruiting!
    4. BYU would have to abide by what the MWC says which is kind of like being in an HOA (Home Owners Association) and having others make rules for you.
    5. More money - joining the MWC, even with BSU's deal, would result in less money for BYU. Probably one of the least important reasons but it does help with facilities, training and helps support other sports. This also helps with recruiting.
    6. ESPN helps schedule some football games.

    The bad:
    1. Football games are more difficult to schedule.
    2. Game times are not as convenient for the local fans.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 13, 2013 8:33 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    "I have absolutely no desire for BYU to join any conference."

    Which is really quite convenient because no conference in the country wants BYU.

    Kind of like a young guy who thinks dating is a "waste of time"... because no one will date him.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 12:51 a.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    "They are able to stand on their own. I really like it."

    I assume by "they" you are including Idaho and New Mexico State... Over 30 teams have been classified as a D-1 independent since 1978, including Colgate, Eastern Carolina, Indiana State, Richmond, Temple, Tulane, and Utah St.. Going independent is not some badge of honor; pretty much anybody can do it.

  • shorts Payson, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 6:44 a.m.

    RE: motorbike
    Cottonwood Heights, UT
    "By the way, scared to play BYU? Yeah, that's why we scheduled a stronger team in Michigan instead. I'll tell you what, I'd love some of whatever it is you're having." It is funny Utah fans keep bring this up BYU also scheduled Michigan and was still willing to play Utah. Utah inseted Scheduled Fresno State. That is the team you got insted of BYU I hope you will like that game. You have such a history with them. No more we scheduled Michigan insted of BYU because it is Frensno State you replaced BYU with.

    RE: Henry Drummond
    San Jose, CA
    Don't worry BYU is not going to take a step backward and join the MWC.

    RE:CKS007
    Clearfield, UT
    You do know Chris B. is a Utah fan and is being sarcastic

    RE:Fuzz
    Springville, UT
    When BYU beats Utah there only Pac-12 team they play they still will not beat a Pac-12 team with a winning record.

  • Nancy Smith Delta, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 8:32 a.m.

    the MWC would take BYU back in a second

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 9:22 a.m.

    Howard S.

    "Actually about $2 million from last years Sun Bowl."

    Sorry to burst your delusional crimson bubble, but it was the PAC 12's bowl contract with the Sun Bowl that brought in whatever the Sun Bowl pays - as far as the PAC 12 is concerned, it really doesn't matter whether it was a mediocre Utah last year or a mediocre USC this year.

    Utah provides a warm body so that PAC 12 can play a conference championship game, nothing more.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 9:36 a.m.

    @2fer

    Only a few could do it successfully, and there is the difference. But I didn't claim being independent as a "badge of honor", I claim BYU's ability to do it successfully as a badge of honor. None of those teams could get an ESPN contract, none of them could work out individual deals with bowl games, none of them could arrange the schedules BYU is arranging.

    You see there are those, like utah, that can only leech onto greater schools than themselves to try and gain some relevence. utah "fans" apparently know this on a sub concious level based on how all they talk about is the pac 12 and almost never about utah itself.

    For BYU fans all that matters is BYU.

    That is the difference in being a school that can stand on your own and a school that lacks anything of its own and must cling to the accomplishemnts of others in a desperate bid to claim it matters.

  • CougFaninTX Frisco, TX
    Jan. 14, 2013 10:12 a.m.

    As long as Notre Dame is independent and ESPN continues its contract with BYU, the Cougs will stay independent. Holmoe told us that scheduling would be tough the first two years, and it was. But look at the schedule for 2013. The schedule seems to be manageable going forward, and is a lot better than a MWC schedule.

    BYU has gotten the exposure from the media they wanted. Now BYU just needs a signature season to get "exposure" from the non-BYU football fans to recognize the Cougs as a powerhouse program. We missed a huge opportunity this year. With a decent QB, I think we could've finished the season 11-1 and possibly been selected ahead of N. Illinois for a BCS at-large bowl.

    Is it just me, or does anybody else see a simiarity in how Taysom Hill plays and how Colin Kaepernik plays? Taysom has a long way to go to get to that level, but their games look a lot alike.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 10:24 a.m.

    Loyalty is an admirable trait, in most circumstances. With the MWC, loyalty was not a two way street. BYU is fine as an independent unless something substantial changes. A teams first responsibility is to themselves - BSU and SDSU need to do what is best for themselves as does BYU. Conferences serve the needs of their members, not the reverse. Win-win situations are fine but BYU doesn't need to lie down for a conference that has proven itself unreliable, Big East or MWC.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 7:20 p.m.

    @Chrissy
    "Why don't you guys just join the prestigious PAC 12 or big 12? Then you would be fighting for a prestigious conference championship and prestigious bowl game every year. I don't get why you guys would rather just fight for WAC championships. Can a cougar explain please?"

    Happy to right after you explain to Cougar fans why Utah is never fighting for a presitigious conference championship and a prestigious bowl game and instead is fighting to stay out of the cellar. The only fighting Utah did this year was to stay out of last place.

  • BigCougar Bountiful, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 7:33 p.m.

    @CKS007
    "If there was an interest in BYU, then they would already be a member."

    Interest goes both ways. Conferences have been interested in BYU but BYU hasn't been interested in giving up EVERYTHING to join them. It's no different than negotiating for a new job with a new company. Higher pay doesn't make the new job ideal. When I interview and negotiate prospective new employees I find that pay is rarely the problem and benefits and work schedule is a primary concern.

    It's no different for BYU. It will be a moot point of discussion with any conference if they want BYU to give up the right to re-broadcast their own games and if they expect BYU to give up No-Sunday-Play.

    The MWC wasn't good for BYU before so what has changed that will make it good now? That was something that both Utah and BYU agreed upon when the Mtn Network was first launched. If a business partner you trusted knifed you in the back and then years later reached out to you to go into business together again, would you trust him a 2nd time? Only a fool would...

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    Jan. 14, 2013 9:53 p.m.

    Duckhuner

    "I claim BYU's ability to do it successfully as a badge of honor."

    BYU isn't doing it successfully until they can do it without 2 for 1 schedules with BCS teams.

    Notre Dame does independence successfully... no one else does.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2013 3:23 a.m.

    @ Duckhunter

    Yeah those pathetic schools like everyone in the SEC, BIG 12, BIG, and PAC-12 who must cling to each other for relevance. Or could it possibly be that schools like USC and Texas understand the benefits and advantages of conference affiliation?

    "For BYU fans all that matters is BYU." - and Utah. BYU fans, including yourself, talk about the Utes quite a bit.

    Lastly, in two years of independence Utah State played Nebraska, Iowa, Boise St., Utah, BYU, Southern Florida, Connecticut, Louisiana Tech, Fresno State, and they got Oregon to come to Logan. Scheduling isn't hard when you do 2-for-1 and 1-and-done with BCS teams and home-home with mid-majors....

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    Jan. 15, 2013 8:17 a.m.

    2fer

    Every conference needs its bottom dwellers so the big boys of the conference can pad their win totals. Credit the Utes for adjusting to that role so quickly; Colorado and WSU appreciate the company.

  • Cowboy Dude SAINT GEORGE, UT
    Jan. 15, 2013 9:42 a.m.

    JIM 1027 "When? and if? Utah starts winning Pac12 games then we can say it was a good decision to join. In the meantime, they are getting beat up on the field, in the press, and by fans. I guess being the doormat is not that fun."

    You mean BYU fans not Utah fans.

    You can't get a single ticket to a Utah game. We travel to California and Arizona to see Utah play. the fans have never been more excited. And the press outside of Utah finally give Utah respect.

    I guess being the "PAC12" doormat is not that fun "for BYU fans."

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    Jan. 15, 2013 9:34 p.m.

    Swoop
    Salt Lake City, UT
    2fer

    Every conference needs its bottom dwellers so the big boys of the conference can pad their win totals. Credit the Utes for adjusting to that role so quickly; Colorado and WSU appreciate the company.

    ____________________

    BYU pads their schedule with bottom dwellers all the time. And they only managed a 7-5 record this season. LOL! Credit the Cougs for being consistent. Idaho, Idaho St & New Mexico St. appreciate the company.

  • DaveKnowsWhatsUp Bloomington, IN
    Jan. 16, 2013 8:00 a.m.

    Duckhunter

    "For BYU fans all that matters is BYU." This is exactly right! and unfortunately, this is why those up north keep trying to prove to us they are better. All we've ever cared about is BYU, and this somehow comes across as self-centered and rude to an underdeveloped outsider perspective. Seriously, how many of us really care what the Utes do? I know I don't; I can't even tell you which teams they lost to in football or their overall basketball record is. I'll bet the Ute "fans" have all that information memorized about BYU. There are only two reasons I even respond to their rantings:primarily because I get tired of constantly being attacked, even though arguing back is like arguing with a democrat, and honestly, sometimes it's entertaining to encourage them a bit. Other than that, I simply don't care. All that matters is BYU. You're spot on.

  • Barb Wire USA, UT
    Jan. 22, 2013 2:42 p.m.

    BYU ia just another mediocre team in the land of alot of mediocre teams outside the SEC Conference. Don't worry BYU, you're along way from being one of the elite whether you're in the MWC or play as an Independent. Lots of big egos and wishfull thinking over there in Provo...