Quantcast
Opinion

Letter: Free ice cream cone

Comments

Return To Article
  • Onion Daze Payson, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 12:11 a.m.

    This ice cream story is a repeat.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:19 a.m.

    The three groups that receive the most government funding are the elderly, the rural, and the southern. In other words, the GOP's core constituency. I'd say the Republicans have the free ice cream cone thing down pat. As for paying for it, compare Medicare Part D and Obamaacare. Obamacare is fully funded, while there is absolutely no funding mechanism for Medicare Part D. Every penny of spending for the program has gone on the national credit card.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:37 a.m.

    Onion, this ice cream story is a fantasy..the Greece of the western Hempisphere..that tells you all you need to know about the writer.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:52 a.m.

    If the DN wants to print nonsensical letters at least they should insist on originality. This fable is as old as I am (and that's old). I wonder if the author would explain how Republicans are showing "fiscal and social responsibility" with their current position on taxes. After Bill Clinton raised taxes and the nation showed a budget surplus, the CBO calculated that with similar tax rates and economic growth we could pay off our then $5 trillion dollar debt within 10 years. But the Republicans didn't want to pay their debt (the debt of all Americans); they preferred to keep their money (in the form of tax cuts) instead of doing the responsible thing. And for eight years during the G.W. Bush Administration, just like in the 12 years of the Reagan Bush Administration, they spent freely and ran up a debt that nearly destroyed our nation. Now that the current president has had to deal with lower tax revenue and despite increasing spending at rate lower than any president since Eisenhower, he and his party get blamed for our current situation. How is that being fiscally responsible?

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2012 8:10 a.m.

    "What the GOP needs to do is to find an "ice cream cone" that the Democrats don't already have covered."

    That's hard to read but it was Bush that sent out $400 "stimulus" checks to everyone, started 2 wars and reduced your taxes at the same time. He also gave out free drugs with medicare part d.

    Of course the republicans shouted that Obama was taking stuff away from medicare and there would be less free stuff for seniors as if that were bad. It wasn't true but that was the argument.

    Then there's the inconvenient truth that the states that have the most "takers" are republican states.

    Please secede from the union, we are smarter now and will definitely not fight to keep you in the USA.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 8:44 a.m.

    I don't need to say anything, it's already been said. Good job guys.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Dec. 22, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    And Republicans want the rest of us to get by with less so the wealthy can get two scoops.

  • Kent C. DeForrest Provo, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 9:13 a.m.

    Is the DNews so short on letters that it can't come up with something better than this ridiculous ice cream cone analogy and a diatribe about the "Chicago political machine"?

  • The Real Maverick Orem, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 9:28 a.m.

    What the GOP has offered and continues to offer is anything but fiscal and social responsibility.

    You and your ilk have no room to criticize others for being ill-informed or merely wanting handouts. If you really believe that responsibility is what your party still stands for then I suggest you get out of your cave and become informed. Please study history. Especially the records of the last 3 GOP Presidents.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    You all forgot the mention all the freebies garnered by big corporations, Wall Street, Banks, those who use offshore tax dodging banks, and on and on for an endless list of GOP supporters.

    They don't just get ice cream cones. They get the entire factory.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2012 9:41 a.m.

    I find it interesting that all the liberal regulars on here attacked the writer of the letter instead of answering his most important question: who is going to pay for all the Democrat freebies?

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:03 a.m.

    Mountainman - There are no Democratic freebies. As many have pointed out, all Americans have benefited from and are responsible for the government programs that now must be paid for. There is no doubt that many things can and should be cut from government where possible but it is equally true that we all need to step up and pay for the reckless spending of the past, on both sides of the aisle. I don't make anywhere near the $200K limit the president has established for having taxes raised but I would gladly pay more if it meant getting our financial house in order. For Republicans to completely refuse to make any effort to pay the bills that are now due (as witnessed this week in Congress) is not only irresponsible but, in my opinion, it runs counter to the values of American citizenship. Until we all accept our current situation and work together to fix it we will continue to have a slow moving economy where the poorest and most vulnerable in our society will suffer the most.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:26 a.m.

    "The GOP cares solely and exclusively about its rich contributors. The party has built a whole catechism on the protection and further enrichment of America's plutocracy. Their caterwauling about deficit and debt is so much eyewash to con the public. Whatever else President Obama has accomplished (and many of his purported accomplishments are highly suspect), his $4-trillion deficit reduction package did perform the useful service of smoking out Republican hypocrisy. The GOP refused, because it could not abide so much as a one-tenth of one percent increase on the tax rates of the Walton family or the Koch brothers, much less a repeal of the carried interest rule that permits billionaire hedge fund managers to pay income tax at a lower effective rate than cops or nurses. Republicans finally settled on a deal that had far less deficit reduction - and even less spending reduction! - than Obama's offer, because of their iron resolution to protect at all costs our society's overclass.
    ("Good-bye to All That the Confessions of a Gop Operative Who left the Cult" by Mike Lofgren)

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:41 a.m.

    ECR. All you did was bloviate! Again, I ask you, who is going to pay for all the entitlements? I guess I missed the specifics on where Obama is willing cut any spending, except perhaps the military. All I have ever heard him say, is more taxes, more taxes, more spending. In the meantime our national debt is over $16 trillion with no end to the explosion. That is really our current situation and Obama has no real answers. At least the Republicans has been in favor of serious spending cut, but Obama says NO! Again, I ask you, who is going to pay for all this spending?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:50 a.m.

    The metaphor is completely wrong.

    It's more like this ---

    2 kids are running for office.

    One says we need to takecare of ALL the kids in class,
    Everyone deserves healthcare in order to get good grades,
    We all need to eat and sleep and help each other.
    School needs to be a good place for everybody.

    The other says --
    We can's afford that!
    We need to take from those struggling or failing and give those getting A's.
    Only A-kids get to go to recess.
    They are Teacher's pets, and get 1st choice for everything.
    The A-kids get every privledge because they earned it - even if they CHEATED.
    The A-kids can bully and take anything they want from others and pass it around to THEIR friends on the playground, they don't have to share.
    A-kids can start fights, and bully other kids and never get punished.

    Mommy and Daddy's sweet little boo-bah-doo gets preferential treatment,
    the rest of the kids in class are a bunch of loosers anyway!

    Here little Johnny - have an ice cream cone.
    Any flavor you want, and size you want.
    Care for sprinkles?

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Dec. 22, 2012 11:17 a.m.

    LDS liberal; Your version would be much more accurate if you substituted a playground bully the federal government), for taking money by force away from those who earned it and then gets angry when the good kids don't have any more money to steal!

  • wrz Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 11:27 a.m.

    @Roland Kayser:
    "The three groups that receive the most government funding are the elderly, the rural, and the southern."

    You forgot the fourth and largest group... Democrats.

    "As for paying for it, compare Medicare Part D and Obamaacare. Obamacare is fully funded, while there is absolutely no funding mechanism for Medicare Part D."

    Yeah, right. Obama care is fully funded alright... with increased taxes.

    "Every penny of spending for the program has gone on the national credit card."

    Speaking of which, Obama has increased the national credit card debt by more than all presidents put together... from George Washington on.

    @ECR:
    "If the DN wants to print nonsensical letters at least they should insist on originality."

    The truth is worth repeating over and over. This truth exposes the Democrats as 'tax the rich and spend.' It also exposes the Republican as well... the guys who don't know how to get elected with promises of give-aways, amnesty, etc.

    "I wonder if the author would explain how Republicans are showing 'fiscal and social responsibility' with their current position on taxes."

    The Republicans are showing 'economic' responsibility... to keep from going over the fiscal cliff.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 22, 2012 11:40 a.m.

    Mountainman - What I did say was that we are all going to have to pay for the government that we have. Since you have trouble interpreting that message I'll say it more clearly. We are going to have to raise taxes to help get things back in order. Although the president is not proposing it, I am saying, and I did say, I would be willing to pay more in taxes even though I do not make the kind of income the president has set as the limit. I'm not sure those who make just enough to get by should or could pay more but I am willing to do my part. I also said that we should responsibly cut government spending where it is possible and where it won't hurt the most vulnerable. That is exactly what the president has said and he never, ever suggested we should just cut the military. But I am saying why shouldn't cut some of the military. Why do we need an Air Force base in Utah 700 miles from the coastline or the north and south border of the nation? I hope that statement is definitive enough for you.

  • Miss Piggie Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 11:52 a.m.

    @ECR:

    "There are no Democratic freebies."

    You ain't been paying attention have you, ECR...? For one thing, Obama and his Democrat friends wanna hand out free healthcare to the poor... including birth control pills and abortion on demand.

    "There is no doubt that many things can and should be cut from government where possible but it is equally true that we all need to step up and pay for the reckless spending of the past, on both sides of the aisle."

    Obama's willing to make spending cuts, alright. But he wants his tax increases now. Then maybe later on he'll address the cuts. Sure.

    "I don't make anywhere near the $200K limit the president has established for having taxes raised but I would gladly pay more if it meant getting our financial house in order."

    If you're so willing, all you need do is get your checkbook out and write a check payable to the IRS. And please accept my thanks in advance for your generosity.

  • ECR Burke, VA
    Dec. 22, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    Miss Piggie - Like so many of your friends form the conservative wing of the United States, I see you have adopted that same attitude "if you want to fix things so bad then go ahead and do your part but leave me out of it." We are all responsible for making our government work and no one should shirk that responsibility. Some have experienced good fortune and can better afford to make a greater contribution. I am willing to do that. Why aren't you?

    Your assertions about the Affordable Care Act are the usual uninformed hyperbole that we've heard for four years. There will not be any abortion on demand paid for by the ACA. And doesn't it stand to reason that if people have access to birth control there will be fewer abortions desired? It's a simple cause and effect formula but I know that is a bit complicated for those who choose to believe false statement without checking them out for themselves.

    And for your information, the president proposed changes to Social Security and Medicare as part of the Grand Bargain clear last year but John Bohner and the Republicans rejected it. Merry Christmas!

  • Mr. Bean Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 12:30 p.m.

    @ECR:
    "We are going to have to raise taxes to help get things back in order."

    Obama doesn't want higher taxes to 'get things back in order.' He wants higher taxes to grow the government. He's a socialist. He thinks the government should control everything... every aspect of human existence. He gets it from his Kenyan ancestry.

    "I'm not sure those who make just enough to get by should or could pay more but I am willing to do my part."

    Those people who just get by pay no income tax at all. That's the fallacy in the system. Everyone should pay some income tax.

    "I also said that we should responsibly cut government spending where it is possible..."

    Tell that to Obama. He wants his tax increases first... then maybe he'll think about cuts.

    "Why do we need an Air Force base in Utah 700 miles from the coastline or the north and south border of the nation?"

    Good point... and why do we need a Army base in Fairbanks, Alaska? It should be located on the US/Mexican border, where the invasion is taking place.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 1:15 p.m.

    By voting for Obama I gave up the "20% across the board tax cut" freebie Romney offered.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 1:24 p.m.

    I love the way all the liberals whine about this story being a used story, and then the continue to spout all the used rhetoric they have spouted for years. Spend spend spend, we are the USofA. We will never go broke.

    Yeah right. Greece here we come.

  • Miss Piggie Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 2:47 p.m.

    @ECR:
    "Miss Piggie... "We are all responsible for making our government work and no one should shirk that responsibility."

    Tell that to the folk who pay no federal (and likely no state) income tax.

    "Some have experienced good fortune and can better afford to make a greater contribution."

    Where you getting that? It's not in the Constitution. In fact, the Constitution requires equal treatment under the law... including tax law.
    '
    "There will not be any abortion on demand paid for by the ACA."

    True. Abortions on demand will be paid for by health insurance providers... which get their money from policy holders... who are required to buy the insurance by ACA.

    "And doesn't it stand to reason that if people have access to birth control there will be fewer abortions desired?"

    There will certainly be fewer kids.

    "And for your information, the president proposed changes to Social Security and Medicare as part of the Grand Bargain..."

    True. His plan will take $600 billion from Medicare to pay for Obamacare.

    "Merry Christmas!"

    How can it be? The world ended yesterday.

  • Christian 24-7 Murray, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 3:01 p.m.

    atl134 says:
    By voting for Obama I gave up the "20% across the board tax cut" freebie Romney offered.

    Uh, keeping what you have earned is not a freebie, it is keeping what you have earned, an earnbie.

    I would love to see more people have the opportunity to get earnbies.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2012 3:21 p.m.

    What is the magic number? At what point would liberals admit that the government cannot fix society? At what point would they admit that taking money from businessmen is the fastest and surest way to add people to the welfare rolls? At what point would they admit that ignoring the Constitution does not make for a stronger more self-reliant society?

    Yes, there will never be a "free ice cream cone". Someone has to pay for it. If every politician had to raise capital to fund his programs BEFORE he took office, he would be doing the same thing that every businessman has to do. No matter how wild the dream, a businessman has to raise the money BEFORE he puts that dream into action.

    Obama cannot fund his dream society where every able bodied people live off the sweat of some "rich guy". He cannot fund a $1.6 TRILLION per year deficit by raising $60 BILLION by taxing that "rich guy".

    Our education system has failed us. It has turned out a generation of people who can't do the simple math required to know that Obama's ideas are unworkable.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 3:55 p.m.

    A group of fishermen decided that a boat would make for greater fishing enjoyment. They agreed to pool their resources and buy a boat with the notion of equal sharing of it’s cost, it’s maintenance and it’s use.

    A different group of fishermen having the same thoughts, met in a similar meeting. One of the men was a boat dealer who sold boats. He convinced the others that they should simply rent a boat from him and let him handle all the maintenance and costs.

    Assuming similar boats, which set of fishermen got the most for their money.

    The fallacy of Paul’s story is the untold truth about what happed after the little girl failed to prove up on her promise. The little girl lost all her friends.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 4:17 p.m.

    Mike.

    There is no magic number. Governments are created to do the will of the people. Even if they sometimes have to riot and rebel to get the point across.

    People are not wanting to take money from businessmen, they want to stop the excess of money given to businessmen. The proper balance between management and workers has been upset and when it gets bad enough the people will change their government.

    The upset is mainly due to technology but the scurrilous, mean and unfair tactics used by businessmen to demean and handicap working people are a big factor.

    All the money from a business operation is derived from the consumers who are mainly working people. Even if they sometimes give some back, the amount given back to the community is not enough.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Dec. 22, 2012 4:37 p.m.

    Bob,

    We see things from opposite viewpoints. You stated, "People are not wanting to take money from businessmen, they want to stop the excess of money given to businessmen."

    Whose money are we talking about? Government cannot "give" anything to anyone without first "taking" it from someone else. Who pays more than 80% of all taxes? Businesses and businessmen. Who pays less than 10% of all taxes? People who either have no job, or who receive government benefit payments. If we excluded all the people on Social Security who paid for their "pension" all of their working years, how many others would still be on the welfare list? Personally, I don't know. It doesn't matter, because we, the people, have never authorized the Federal Government to pay them anything. Any payment that they receive MUST come from other levels of government or from concerned individuals. The Constitution does not allow payments of any kind for private welfare, only for the general welfare and then only for those duties authorized and enumerated in Article 1, Section 8.

    Working people can buy stock (ownership) in a business - but then they would have nothing to complain about.

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 22, 2012 5:11 p.m.

    Mr. Richards you've finally out done yourself.."Obama cannot fund his dream society where every able bodied people live off the sweat of some "rich guy". He cannot fund a $1.6 TRILLION per year deficit by raising $60 BILLION by taxing that "rich guy". My, my, my. This is exactly why the conservative movement is getting trounced nationally. You do nicely in little pockets like South Jordan in house elections but this hate filled departure from reality is simply going to continue to marganalize your opinions nationally. By the way the deficit is projected to be at around 500 bilion annually by 2015 and it has in fact gone down all of the past four years.

  • higv Dietrich, ID
    Dec. 22, 2012 6:11 p.m.

    Businesses get money by selling a product or service someone uses. If more people use it than the business rightfully gets more money. You can afford it we all pay for higher taxes in the form of added on costs. What right do people have to envy someone who earns his money.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:18 p.m.

    You shall live by sweat of your own brow.

    Now which side is actually living by God commandments?

    If one wants to share his of excess and be charitable, that is his choice, not his neighbors.

    -
    -
    @Ultra Bob

    All money from business operation came from a fair exchange with the consumer or from another provider for a product or service.

    If it were not so the business would a fail and properly so.

    And while their bad businesses and business man there are also bad consumers and bad workers.

    That is price we pay for Freedom and agency.

    But it is much much better than living under tyrannical government control, having big government control every aspect of our lives.

    And is is God's way to teach men morals and principles and what is right and let men govern themselves.

    If the government controls your pocket book, there can be NO charity, and NO goodness, NO reward

    because the converse is not possible.

    Just a world of power and force and dependence and entitlement.

    The kind of world you are looking for just does NOT exist without agency and a moral people.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:31 p.m.

    Just like the "ice cream girl", some posters promise that the deficit will only be $500 billion per year within ten years IF we do exactly as President Obama demands. How about using history as the true scale against which we measure what will happen instead of listening to his campaign promises?

    In 2008, he promised that he would cut the deficit in half. What did he do? He added more than $5 TRILLION to the deficit, increasing it by half in just four years. What plans does he have to reduce spending so that the deficit will stay under $500 billion per year? None! He plans on spending MORE! How is he going to pay for that increased spending? He's going to tax the "rich guy" and put $60 billion more per year in the treasury (according to the CBO). MORE spending with a revenue increase of only $60 billion will never decrease the deficit INCREASE to less than $1.4 TRILLION per year.

    Little girls make promises that they can't pay for. And failed Presidents make promises that they can't pay for.

  • Screwdriver Casa Grande, AZ
    Dec. 22, 2012 7:51 p.m.

    Businesses are making record profits they couldn't have without the bloated military controlling oil supplies, shipping routes and piracy. They couldn't make those profits without the fee free roads we have and police to keep thieves from stealing their shipments.

    What right do they have to use such commons and then decide they don't need to include that in the their own business costs? They already get away with not including environmental costs on their products.

    Why should I subsidize a business I may not use? That's robbery. Payroll taxes should never be used to supply free infrastructure to business.

    The only "fair" market is one where all the costs of a product are included IN the final cost of the product. Then the market will decide.

    Carbon taxes and fair taxes on businesses ARE THE FREE MARKET. There were never payroll labor taxes until 1913!

  • pragmatistferlife salt lake city, utah
    Dec. 22, 2012 9:19 p.m.

    Oh my word J Thompson let's look at history..in 2008 when Obama said he would cut the deficit in half what was happening..we were just beginning the decline into the great recession. The first three quarters in 2008 showed a gdp decline of 2%, not good but not tragic. One could have cut the deficit in half..then the third quarter of 2008..gdp declined 9%..that's right 9% and when did we figure this out..second quarter of 2009. So if you're going to quote history let's at least be accurate. Setting the recession policies aside what was Obamas deficit by policy alone..250billion. So year let's look at history..let's just look at it correctly.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:14 p.m.

    Isn't it interesting to scroll through posts at DN and see how many more the so-called "liberal" posts garner than those awarded to the "conservative" side.

    Could it be that most people out there are actually able to see which ones are most sensible and not hateful?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 10:48 p.m.

    @Christian 24-7
    "Uh, keeping what you have earned is not a freebie, it is keeping what you have earned, an earnbie. "

    It is a freebie when the gov't getting less revenue means larger deficits for future generations. I'd agree with you if the budget were balanced.

    @Mike Richards

    Well then it's a good thing our deficit isn't 1.6 trillion; it was 1.1 trillion the most recent year. The annual deficit has actually decreased since 2009.

  • There You Go Again Saint George, UT
    Dec. 22, 2012 11:30 p.m.

    "...What the GOP needs to do is to find an "ice cream cone"...".

    What the gop needs to do is to find an alternative to voter suppresion, to the war on women, to the war on the 47%, to the war on Americans who don't look like them...for starters.

  • Ultra Bob Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 9:15 a.m.

    The Truth.

    “You shall live by sweat of your own brow.” If you can find a job.

    “Now which side is actually living by God commandments?” Do you know?

    “If one wants to share his of excess and be charitable, that is his choice, not his neighbors.” Agreed, Stop the tax deduction for charity and religion.

    “All money from business operation came from a fair exchange with the consumer or from another provider for a product or service.” The legal sources of money going into a business operation include only the investors and the customers. Since the investor expects to recover his investment along with a profit, that leaves only the customer to supply all the rest.

    “And while their (there’re) bad businesses and business man there are also bad consumers and bad workers. That is price we pay for Freedom and agency.” Then why do we heap so much praise on soldiers?

    “But it is much much better than living under tyrannical government control, having big government control every aspect of our lives.” The most tyrannical government in your life is your church.

    Etc. Etc. Etc.

  • Shaun Sandy, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 9:32 a.m.

    Where is this free stuff? Where can I sign up for it? Surely someone can point me in the right direction because so many people seems to be experts on this subject.

  • Mister J Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    at pragmatistferlife (7:37 a.m. Dec. 22) and Onion Daze (12:11 a.m. Dec. 22)...

    Or, maybe the Greeks are like American 5th graders (Where's Jeff Foxworthy when you need him?).

    p.s. I love how conservatives keep pushing American Exceptionalism. Yet, they are whiney pessimists.

  • dave Park City, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 1:30 p.m.

    The gross oversimplifications and broad-brush statements do nothing constructive. This letter has zero substance and adds nothing to the conversation.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 6:46 p.m.

    @Ultra Bob

    Does some business owe you a job?

    NO one owes you anything, and no one said life would be easy or fair?

    The think otherwise, is intellectual immaturity, built on a belief you are entitled to take what another has.

    Why punish and take money away from NONPROFIT organizations and institutions that benefit others and society in general.

    Charities help the poor and needy and many others. What good come making it harder for them to help?

    Religion helps make better and more productive citizens by teaching right and wrong, morals, and good principles. Even marx recognized they atleast temper the behavior of the people.

    And the more the people help each other the less government we need, the smaller government we have, we the less government help we need, the less government spending we need, less government will have less power and control over us, and we are freer.

    How is all that a bad thing?

    And if you believe those organizations and religions are just corporations, well their business sides, profit sides are taxed.

    -
    -
    @one old man

    Popularity doesn't make you right, but the left does love patting each other on the back.

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 7:56 p.m.

    Wow, they really hit a nerve with the liberals out there. The liberals so far have desperately tried to justify spending. The problem is that we don't have the money to keep spending. Obama in 2008 said that Bush's $500 billion deficits were wrong. As has been pointed out, Obama also said that he would cut deficits in half. The recession that Obama dealt with in 2009 was declared over in July 2009, that was almost 3 1/2 yeas ago that the recession ended. Why is Obama still spending so much, the problem was resolved long ago?

    Where do you liberals think that Obama will find the money to pay for his spending? Even if he is given everything he wants for the fiscal cliff deals, that only generate $20 billion in new revenue. With $1.2 Trillion deficits, that is no where close to fixing anything. where are you planning on coming up with the other $1.18 Trillion?

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Dec. 23, 2012 8:16 p.m.

    Red, if you would take the time to do even a little fact checking, you would learn that most of the spending being blamed on Obama is actually spending policies that originated with administrations as far back as Reagan.

    The truth is that spending INCREASE under Obama is the lowest it has been under any president except Clinton. Increased spending originated by Obama is a conservative myth. Or perhaps, to be more accurate, a conservative lie.

    But then, truthfulness is not one of those mythical conservative values we hear so much about.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 24, 2012 12:56 p.m.

    "Wow, they really hit a nerve with the liberals out there."

    Oh oh. Somebody doesn't want "liberals" to talk.

    "The problem is that we don't have the money to keep spending."

    Really? We (I assume the Feds) can't keep spending? No more spending, huh?

    So what do we do? Just shut down the millitary?

    No, I think the Feds should continue to spend. But how about this, raise taxes back to a level that is reasonable, in other words a level that can cover spending and pay down the debt. And also cut spending in a reasoned well thought out manner.

    I really do hope that everyone that are talk about deficit spending have been out spoken on the issue since Ronald Reagan set us in this unsustainable path. I hope you people were outraged when George HW Bush continued the reckless policy. I hope you were livid and outspoken when George W Bush and the Republicans spent like drunken sailors. I was, and I still am.

    But if you guys never said a word before, but you are now just because of who the president is. Well, Johnny-come-latelys, where were you?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 24, 2012 4:46 p.m.

    "The truth is that spending INCREASE under Obama is the lowest it has been under any president except Clinton. Increased spending originated by Obama is a conservative myth. Or perhaps, to be more accurate, a conservative lie."

    Oh, I didn't know Ronald Reagan signed the $800+ trillion stimulus package in 2009. So, in other words you are saying it is still Bush's fault. Where have I heard that before?

    "But then, truthfulness is not one of those mythical conservative values we hear so much about."

    Since Obama and the democrats are all for truthfulness, could you please tell us what happened during Fast and Furious, the terrorist attack in Benghazi, and how some counties in swing states managed to get more than 100% turnout? Isn't it funny how none of the "irregular" election results ended up in Romney's favor?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 24, 2012 7:50 p.m.

    I meant $800 billion, not trillion; it is almost $1 trillion. Either way, the point is that I'm pretty sure Reagan didn't sign that. And tell me again how Reagan/Bush/Bush are responsible for Obama's failure to pass a budget or decrease spending?

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 24, 2012 9:21 p.m.

    What in the world are you talking about, Riverton Cougar?

  • Riverton Cougar Riverton, UT
    Dec. 25, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    You have no idea? No wonder Obama won reelection.

  • gee-en Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 25, 2012 10:18 p.m.

    Ha Ha...Love this story! Thank you! Also very funny to see those that worship at the Church of Obama get so upset and so defensive...what is the matter with you people? How can you possibly be so disingenuous and try to defend the outlandish spending that is going on right now in our country?

  • Pops NORTH SALT LAKE, UT
    Dec. 26, 2012 7:33 a.m.

    If the entire property of the wealthy were confiscated, it would not fund our federal government for even one year. The only way to fund the federal government at current spending levels is a massive tax increase on everyone. Of course, that would destroy the economy and so revenue would plummet. It seems we have reached a tipping point - current spending is unsustainable.

  • mark Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 26, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    That's so sad. You spout off some nonsense, you can't defend it, and yet you think you have said something profound.

    Yes, Riverton cougar, and we are all very lucky that most people in this country saw through the lies and misinformation that the Republicans and conservatives vomit. We dodged a bullet last election.

  • Wanda B. Rich Provo, UT
    Dec. 26, 2012 3:20 p.m.

    Reading the conservative responses to the liberal comments is like visiting an alternate universe where 2+2=1.6 trillion and you can spend like crazy without ever having to pay for it.

  • one vote Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 26, 2012 7:56 p.m.

    pure Kool aid in that ice cream.