Impossible! Guns are banned in schools!Or, maybe criminals ignore
laws and do whatever they want, no matter how heinous or irrational. But, the
law abiding victims are dead because they were denied access to legal self
defense tools.(NOTE: In Utah, law abiding people with concealed
carry permits are allowed to carry concealed self defense guns in schools.
Criminals and crazies should know that...)
This is the sickest thing I have read in a long time. What would possess a
person to do a rampage--especially on harmless children? This is awful. I hope
the families can get through this horrific ordeal.
The guns are not the problem,The meds are.
Let's hope the next generation can get some kind of hold on this.Years ago there were numerous hospitals (Charter Canyon Hospitals was one
group...we medical professionals did rotations there). These hospitals,
throughout the country specialized in working with mentally ill individuals.
Suddenly funding from insurance companies and other sources vanished and these
hospitals disappeared.The entertainment industry glamorizes weapons in all
aspects of media. Who will change this?The emotionally disturbed, mentally
ill, those starving for attention, and those fascinated with the macho gun
culture will continue to cause horror, death and destruction til something
Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The guns are not the problem..." Right, guns
don't kill people, people kill people (oh BTW, with guns).
What on earth is going on here? Who are these animals that keep killing innocent
people? It's truly frightening to see the absolute war zone that our nation
has become.Movie theaters, local congressional meetings and now
elementary schools?And I don't care what side of the gun debate
you're on, all of us must agree that this blood bath has got to end.
At this point 1020 am PST, the authorities aren't releasing the name of the
Shooter. The news media reported that the Principal and the School Shrink were
amoung the dead. First it was 3 dead, then ten, then 20 now 28 and many
children. Yikes !!.
Time for door to door gun confinscation. This I feel is all the leverage they
need to come for our guns. Civil war is going to be declared.
First of all this is really sick, but if those planning on committing the crime
knew others were armed in most cases the crime would not be committed. For
Marist, killings are committed more with hands, bats, knives, chains, cars, etc.
Do ban everything, if so vehicles should be the first to go.
Clubs and knives kill more people than guns each year. Should we have
background checks and remove every club and knife in the country along with
guns? I wonder if this person used marijuana before. Then we can pin marijuana
causes people to shoot other people....Since the begining of time,
mankind has always found a way to kill each other. Take away the gun,
they'll move to explosives, take that away they'll steal a truck and
run over people, take that away they'll used rocks, ropes, nails, poisons,
illegal weapons etc.Maybe instead of working on symptoms, let's
focus on the illness.
They are coming for the guns. This administration wants to start a civil war or
It's useless to respond by condemning the attacker. Instead, we need to ask
why there are so many such people. What is it about life in our society that
creates so many deranged shooters?I suggest that one problem is a
sense of being abandoned. Often, shooters turn out to be people who fell through
the cracks; who lacked a sense of belonging in society. They feel ignored, so
they do something heinous to ensure that the world pays attention to them.Why is this problem so common? I think it correlates with the decline of
community, broadly speaking--such as close-knit neighborhoods and churches.
Certainly mental health and other factors play a role, but those have always
been with us. The problems turn deadly when the emotionally disturbed lack a
support network.We don't know much about the shooter yet.
I'll see whether my theory is supported in this case, too.
Re:Marist yes guns were used but if there weren't guns it would be
something else like aresen, explosives, chemicals,and so on there are thousands
of ways to take a life and if someone has the drive and the want they will find
a meansstill this is very sad my heart goes to the families.
A mall in Oregon, a school in Connecticut......We better soon
identify and treat mental illness. Getting hollywood to back off the glamor of
killing should be considered, too, but won't be. (And arming everyone
isn't the answer, either.)Many, many innocent victims.
Sympathy to each person and family affected. This community will suffer the
effects of this day for decades. I wish them well.
Marxist not just with guns, Yesterday, 22 in china, at an elementary were
attacked with a knife. The worst U.S. school massacre was in 1927 when a school
board member set off three bombs killing 48 students. This is not an issue with
what but why.
It's a sad day for our Country. Sad for many reasons... My thought's
and prayers go out to the families involved in this tragic event. It's sad
people find themselves in such misery to commit such acts. I wish we could find
a way to help them before they resort to such evil. As far as the
"gun talk", both sides, we always see after these events... I find that
discussion sad too... you people, both sides of the arguement, need to get over
yourselves. Why do you feel tragic events, such as this, are your forum?
As long as we refuse to commit to institutions individuals with mental illness
we will continue to see this happen. The pharmaceutical companies have done
much to help manage mental illness with medication. However, there are many,
many cases where patients refuse to consistently take their medication, or where
the medication actually causes homicidal and suicidal acts, and many more
patients need to be institutionalized. We need to change laws back
to an allowance of mental illness commitments. We have had several murders in
Utah in the past 2 months by mentally ill people who have killed their family
members (usually mothers, dads, spouses and grandparents who they live with).
These poor families are left with no where to turn for their own safety. We are
all at risk. We need new laws and new facilities for the mentally ill, and
taxpayers are going to have to fund it. It is that or be subject to this type
of tragedy happening to our children and ourselves.
I've lived in Germany. Pretty safe place by all standards. Strict gun laws.
In 2011, the German police used 85 bullets. Total. For. The. Entire. Year. In.
The. Whole. Country. When will we figure out that in the 1780s America was a
different place than it is now? The Constitution needs some serious renovation.
Apologies to Mike Richards for speaking so frankly about reality.
We don't have the luxury of waiting for the next horrendous shooting to
discuss this issue.Evil people will get a hold of guns. Period.
Teachers should start carrying concealed weapons and so should decent,
law-abiding, trained citizens. I hate to see us go back to the Wild
West, but I don't see any other solution. We can't continue to be
sitting ducks for these nihilistic, narcissistic monsters.
How is it that the crime statistics show that we have less and less violent
crime, yet mass shootings reported in the media appear to be on the rise?
Something just does not add up.
Marxist -Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The guns are not the
problem..." Right, guns don't kill people, people kill people (oh BTW,
with guns).BTW - more people are killed in the US with baseball bats
or cars than guns. Look it up. I don't supopose you'd be in favor of
banning bats or cars, would you?Its not about guns people - its
about them trying to get control us; just ask Mr. Hitler.If people
are going to kill they will kill; method doesn't matter.My
heart and prayer will be with those in Conn.
"The pharmaceutical companies have done much to help manage mental illness
with medication." And much to exacerbate the problem by pushing
more and more medication on people."Ask your doctor if drugs
will work for you!"
Children and their mentors are dead. It did not occur, as suggested by DN
Subscriber, because other people lacked guns, it did not occur, as suggested by
Anti Bush-Obama, because politicians want to start taking guns away from others,
and it was not, as far too many have suggested through social media, because the
public education system is unsafe. It happened because a man decided to go to
the school and kill others. That's the only cause to this tragedy.There are millions of children in public schools. Realistically, a
child is more likely to die at home as a result of parental neglect or parental
abuse than by a gunman at school. That does not diminish the real tragedy of
this event, but it should quiet the frivolous statements by those looking to
stand on their political soapbox.You want to stop this? Stop hating
others, stop belittling others, stop bullying others, and stop using these
comment boards to degrade and defame and figuratively shout at others for having
different opinions. Learn to be civil, learn to be tolerant, learn to love one
another; something we all should remember during this Christmas season.
When these kinds of horrible crimes happen, I wish the media would have a policy
of not showing the perpetrator's picture, perhaps not even revealing his
name. The only pictures that should be shown are those of the victims. Sick,
desperate, immature people who commit these types of crimes crave notoriety.
Why grant his wishes?
Is simply declaring that more guns will make situatios like these the answer, or
do we need to be looking in other directions for the solution?
@Ford DeTreeseThe gun issue is so emotionally charged, it is
difficult to have a logical discussion about it, no matter what side you're
speaking to. But having said that, I am willing to listen to any logical
argument about how we can make guns less of a problem. Between the
shootings this year in Colorado, Oregon and now Connecticut, along with numerous
other gun related murders, we've got to do something.
I am going back a few years or perhaps centuries when evil people used stones to
kill people. A time when there was not even the thought of
"semi-automatic" weapons. I am sure a few progressive political leaders,
intellectual thinkers, media propagandists would have loved to have had
semi-automatic rock slings to conquer and divide there subjects.This
is all about control and power which in the words of the current political
quasi-leader "it is simply a case of workplace violence".
@DN Subscriber 2"(NOTE: In Utah, law abiding people with
concealed carry permits are allowed to carry concealed self defense guns in
schools. Criminals and crazies should know that...)"Yeah,
that'll do you a whole lot of good against a suicidal maniac with a
A few facts people need to be aware of if you want to have a rational discussion
on the matter:1. Mass attacks, including school attacks, have always
happened. The first one in the U.S. happened in 1796.2. The deadliest
school attack in U.S. history occurred in Michigan almost 100 years ago.3.
Contrary to what the Deseret News is reporting, this is NOT the 2nd-deadliest
school attack in U.S. history. This is 3rd or 4th (depending on what numbers
you used).4. The number of school attacks, as a percentage of the U.S.
population, hasn't changed in 200 years. You're just hearing about it
more now because the country has grown (more schools now) and we have 24/7
news.5. As the population continues to grow, you can expect to see school
shootings continue to grow proportionally.
We have got to find a way. And arguing over gun control will not solve this. We
have to find a way to reach the hearts of our children before they grow up as
The shooter took out his Mom, who was a teacher at the school, during the
rampage[Updated at 3:09 p.m. ET] The suspect's mother was shot
and killed at the school, according to source close to the investigation. She
was a teacher there.And we now know that Ryan Lanza, the suspected
gunman, was 24.[Updated at 3:01 p.m. ET] The principal and guidance
counselor at Sandy Hook Elementary School were both killed during the shooting,
according to a witness that spoke to CNN.
If banning guns from society would actually make us safer, maybe we should think
about outlawing Heroin and Meth from our society. Oh wait, we did make these
drugs illegal a long, long time ago. That must be why these drugs can be found
in anytown USA and in ALL of our schools. So I guess it would be different if we
made guns illegal to own. I'm sure there wouldn't be any guns to found
for people to use then. Yea right.This is still a very tragic event
that a troubled mind decided to use guns to kill people. I just don't want
those of us who are law abiding guns owners made to feel guilty or responsible
for the actions of these crazy people.
Looking at the photos, I cannot help to think of the 18 sets of parents who are
crying alone right now.
Can you spot the difference between the U.S. and China news today?"BEIJING -- A knife-wielding man injured 22 children and one adult outside
a primary school in central China as students were arriving for classes Friday,
police said, the latest in a series of periodic rampage attacks at Chinese
schools and kindergartens." "A teacher's son clad in
black and carrying two handguns rampaged through a Connecticut elementary school
Friday, killing 18 small children and seven adults, including his mother, in the
nation’s second-worst school massacre, law enforcement officials
@activ2004You're the lunatic side who wants everyone to have guns.
You're the side of the psychopaths who support no restrictions at all.
You're the ones who cause the US to have homicide rates 5-20 times that of
Canada, Spain, Germany, England, even after adjusting for population. Your
"rights" kill other people and they deserve to be well regulated, just
as the amendment calls for.
My condolences to these poor people.
marxistSalt Lake City, UTQuote: Re: Open Minded Mormon - "The
guns are not the problem..." Right, guns don't kill people, people kill
people (oh BTW, with guns). Close quote.Glad you understand that
guns don't kill people. Cars don't either. Nor baseball bats. Nor
explosives. Nor hammers. Nor drugs. Nor...Well, you get the idea. Guns don't teach violence. People teach violence. That,
'marxist' is the problem at its core. It is the culture WE
live in. Not any other country. We live in a society that glorifies shooting via
Hollywood, video games, etc. You want to change the culture? Change mass media.
And change the family. As a young man growing up in the sixties, we
often carried rifles in gun racks to school. We even road the city bus with our
rifles to go the shooting range in the basement of Hayward HS in California.
Guess how many school shootings there were? None. In the intervening years, it
is not that guns have become the problem--a lack of morals in society has become
the problem. But, you go ahead and continue thinking that the solution is simply
'ban guns'. Indeed.
@Ford DeTreese: And yet, in 2009, in the city of Winnenden, Germany (near
Stuttgart) a gunman with a Beretta went into a school and killed 16 people.
Perhaps the German police should use a few more bullets per year.Gun
arguments aside...lots of praise should be given to those teachers who were fast
thinking and got the majority of those kids to safety until the police arrived.
atl134Salt Lake City, UT@DN Subscriber 2""(NOTE:
In Utah, law abiding people with concealed carry permits are allowed to carry
concealed self defense guns in schools. Criminals and crazies should know
that...)"Yeah, that'll do you a whole lot of good against a
suicidal maniac with a bulletproof vest..."Then ban bulletproof
Liberal Ted: "Clubs and knives kill more people than guns each
year."IJ: "more people are killed in the US with baseball bats or
cars than guns. Look it up."Please provide sources for your
claims. I did look it up and found something completely different.FBI statistics published online by the Criminal Justice Information Services
Division at the Uniform Crime Reports page (Table 20, Murder by state, by types
of weapons):2010:Total murders: 12,996Total by
firearms: 8,775 (68%)Total by knives, other cutting instruments:
1,704Total other weapons: 1,772Total by hands, fists, etc.: 7452011:Total murders: 12,664Total by firearms: 8,583
(68%)Total by knives, other cutting instruments: 1,694Total other
weapons: 1,659Total by hands, fists, etc.: 728Firearms
account for twice the murders of all other weapons combined.Please
explain to me how this member of a well regulated militia exercising his
uninfringed right to bear arms is helping to secure the freedom of a free state
by slaughtering children. Perhaps he saw a budding socialist or government
tyrant in one of their faces.
I cannot focus my mind sufficiently to articulate any arguments one way or
another about gun control. My heart is broken over the murders of these
precious, innocent children and teachers. If I was not experiencing such
disabling shock, I would worry about my sense of morality.So tragic.
So unbelievable. I can hardly bear it.
Can we NOT have a gun control debate attached to this article? Good heavens, 27
people are dead, 18 of them children. (yes, I know, some will debate gun control
anyway, with only a passing remark on the tragedy.)
This is the worst of all nightmares of any parent and for that matter any adult
employee. I don't ever remember this sort of thing happening when I grew up
yet today it is becoming commonplace. The complete DE-sensitivity toward respect
for human life in our society is appalling. This is something akin to the
actions of the SS in Nazi Germany. I watch TV and what do I see - violent video
games advertised and sold as top sellers in the age group 14 and above. Go to
the internet and malls and you see these games everywhere - killing killing and
more killing. There is no history we can look to and learn from regarding these
violent games - I think we are learning on the fly unfortunately. No one knows
if this evil nut job was influenced by video games or not but certainly there is
a BIG issue in our society that is getting worse regarding the respect for human
life and glorifying killing is something that should be legislated out of our
society. Wicked world.
@BYR"Can we NOT have a gun control debate attached to this
article"I'm fine with that, if someone can answer this one
question... after every tragedy we're told this isn't the time to have
a gun control debate. When I'm told that we should wait to have that
debate, is that intended to suggest there actually is a time in the future when
we can have this debate (and if so when would that be), or is it just a way to
never have the debate since people get killed every day somewhere?
Violence rises, as economy declines.Coping with the stresses of
surviving is difficult.
Thanks to Lagomorph for providing something other than cliches. Surely, there
are many ways to kill or injure someone, but the weapon of choice is guns.
re:Ford DeTreeseSwitzerland has mandatory gun training and ownership
and violent crime is the lowest ever reported in that particular country since
this policy was started. Chicago has virtually banned guns and it's violent
crime rate is the highest in its history since that policy was enacted. Also - as I recall Nicole Brown Simpson and her friend were NOT killed
by a gun owning OJ either. A knife will do the job just as quickly and easily.
For that matter someone intent on killing can build a bomb (follow instructions
on the internet) that will take out an entire class room or movie theater or
work place. The Oklahoma City bombing taught us that sad lesson. citizens of this country have the right to protect themselves from evil people
intent on killing and banning guns won't stop the desire to kill innocent
Worf...Best that your politics be silenced for a time.
Good thoughts and prayers for the victim. As far as the gun control discussion
goes, the debate was over years ago. The NRA and its advocates won that
argument using fear. There are only two types of gun owners, sportsman and
Guns don't kill people. Insane people who should never have access to guns
in the first place kill people.With guns.It's time for gun
control. Get over it, it's time.
How Awfull to happen like this. Why, what is wrong in this nation and eveywhere?
Now I wondered my wife know any family members might be the victim in CT. This
is sickening. So sorry for little ones that they don't deserved. This is
re:patriot"Chicago has virtually banned guns and it's violent
crime rate is the highest in its history since that policy was enacted."On June 28, 2010, in the case of McDonald v. Chicago, the U.S. Supreme
Court ruled the handgun bans of Chicago and Oak Park to be unconstitutional. Homicides in Chicago are up by 38 percent from a year ago, and shootings
have increased as well, even as killings have held steady or dropped in New
York, Los Angeles and some other cities. As of June 17, 240 people had been
killed here this year, mostly in shootings, 66 more deaths than occurred in the
same period in 2011.
We cannot blame guns, we cannot outlaw guns, otherwise this ceases to be
America. I do however believe that the obtaining of guns should be stricter,
somehow there needs to be access to medical and psychiatric records before one
obtains a gun. If a person owns a gun, EVERYTHING should convince the seller
that the buyer is mentally responsible.
It really does not matter about statistics or how guns are prohibited. This is
tragic. This is the most foolish and idiotic decision really to ever be
decided. I see no reason on taking anger out on such young, innocent little
It won't surprise me in the least if, the next time we have another mass
shooting in Utah, the shooter turns out to be one of the government hating,
Obama hating people who so frequently post hateful rants about gun control in
places like this.
re:atl134the reason that people don't want to start a
discussion of gun control alt134 is because it won't BE a discussion at all
- it will be to revoke the second amendment outright! The radical progressive
left have clearly stated many times all guns should be banned and that is their
goal. These people want no part of a rational discussion and sensible gun law
legislation - which I support by the way. You can lump Barack Obama into the
anti-second amendment crowd as well. I personally think each state should pass
it's own gun laws and keep the federal government out of it altogether.
What might make sense in New York makes zero sense in Utah or Wyoming.
Ford DeTreese, LagomorphLest you be tempted to think school shooting
are just recent see DN article about history of school shootings in U.S. Lest
you think gun elimination and extreme gun control will stop such actions see
these in some of the strictest gun control countriesCanada, October 10,
1902, May 28 1975, October 27 1975, October 1978, December 6 1989, August 24
1992, April 28 1999, September 13 2006, May 23 2007, September 16 2008,
September 30 2010.Germany June 20 1913, Sweden March 4 1961, Germany
June 11 1964, Germany June 3 1983, Finland January 24 1989 Denmark April 5 1994,
United Kingdom March 13 1996 March 13, 1996, Netherlands December 7 1999,
Germany April 26 2002, Germany July 32003, Netherlands January 2004 Russia
September 1 2004, Germany March 7 2005, Germany November 20 2006, Finland
November 7 2007, Finland September 23 2008, Germany March 11 2009, Greece April
10 2009, Norway April 28 2009, Hungary November 26 2009, France March 19 2012,
Italy May 19 2012Israel May 15, 1974, Yemen March 30, 1997,
Philippines February 19, 1999, Australia August 3, 1999, Australia October 21,
2002, Australia, October 21, 2002, Thailand June 6, 2003, Argentina September
28, 2004, Lefanon January 25, 2007, India December 12, 2007, Israel March 6,
2008, Azerbaijan April 30, 2009, Brazil April 7, 2011, Australia May 11, 2012
Guns are NOT the problem folks!Drugs have been outlawed for decades.
Murder has been outlawed for centuries.Yet,Millions of
people are drug addicts.And thousands of people are murdered every
year.The old saying that "when guns are outlawed, only outlaws
will have guns" is absolutely true.Criminals will always find
ways to get guns, no matter how many laws are passed to outlaw guns.The only way to prevent this type of senseless violence is to identify and
solve the root problems that motivate people to commit such heinous acts.
It should not be easier to buy a Glock than it is to buy Xanax.
I just read in China a man broke into a school, and using a KNIFE killed many
children and teachers.
I'm pretty sure just about everyone who believes in God is praying today.
We can pray AND talk about the issue.We should act before the next
Sandy Hook happens, the same way we acted after 9-11 when we armed pilots.
Schools should have armed security and/or armed teachers. I
don't like it either. I miss the days when I could walk onto an airplane
or into a courthouse without going through a metal detector but we've
adapted for the times -- sadly.20 murdered kids must never happen
It was just reported on the news by the brother of the shooter that the shooter
was Autistic or something similar. He first shot his dad then went to the school
where his mom was a teacher. If it is true the man was Autistic there has to be
better gun sale legislation to prevent the sale to irresponsible people who
obviously should be no where near guns.
Obamacare includes mental health parity to take mental problems seriously again.
Nobody is going to take your guns! Stop being scared little people.
When this happens and all you can think of is your guns you have a problem.The police lean to the right and won't take your guns, the national
guard leans right and won't take your guns. Army - nope. AirForce -no way.
Navy nope, Marines - are not going to take your guns. Liberals can't do it
- we are the ones without so many guns. Obama obviously can't take your
guns by himself.Your fears are irrational and are fanning more
irrational fear. Stop it!
This is a truly a sad day and people are arguing about gun control and the
second amendment. It is always easy to say if a teacher had a gun that this
would of never happened or less kids would have been murdered. Instead lets focus on the children that were murdered senselessly by a coward.
Some supposedly thoughtful people will say we shouldn't enact gun controls
in the heat of the moment. Consider this: A mother and father, after learning
that their child died in a car crash and was not wearing a seat belt, both
decide silently in the heat of the moment that they and their other children
will never fail to buckle up. Maybe the heat of the moment can be a good time to
make decisions.I'll tell you this. If we wait, in a few weeks
another multiple shooting will occur, and the pro-gun crowd will say,
"Let's not enact gun controls in the heat of the moment." And, as
usual, nothing gets done.
On facebook there is a post going the rounds. Paraphrased it says 'If your
first thought on hearing of the shooting was that the blankety blank liberals
were going after your guns, your priorities stink". Its time to grieve
and start thinking of ways to prevent this happening again, not hiding your
There are laws prohibiting the sale of firearms to people who lack mental
capacity. Yet, there is much that we do not know about this incident, such as
where he got the guns and what was his mental capacity. Did he buy the guns?
Did he steal them? Did he obtain them illegally? Until we know more facts
about the case, so much of what is being said appears to be speculation.
Some kill others with water, (in bathtubs,) some with gasoline and matches, some
with baseball bats, some with explosives- even bombs, some with cars, some with
poisons--I think a teaspoon can be a weapon, and bare hands, or a pillow or the
very rocks on the ground . --- with some of the above, usually it
isn't mass killing- but some do. ---- Isn't the challenge
to teach correct principles raising children in loving homes - where they are
taught to respect life and are not exposed to games or movies of violent killing
May I suggest that the NRA has been perhaps the greatest reason why no
meaningful, sensible gun measures have even been considered in this nation?There are sensible solutions out there -- you say you support finding
them. But until the paranoia and insane fear-mongering from people like Wayne
LaPierre can be overcome, not much is likely to happen.Some of the
posts here reflect that madness. What is becoming of America? We spend money
on violent entertainment, we argue with one another endlessly. Why?
@atl134 and all others who want guns to disappear from society...“Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding
citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million
times every year—or about 6,850 times a day. This means that each year,
firearms are used more than 80 times more often to protect the lives of honest
citizens than to take lives.”“As many as 200,000 women
use a gun every year to defend themselves against sexual abuse”“Handguns are the weapon of choice for self-defense. Citizens use
handguns to protect themselves over 1.9 million times a year.”More info can be found at http://gunowners.org/fs0404.htmSo, I
wish someone would explain to me why these statistics are ignored. Seems to me
guns are used more for good than for bad and gun control activists want to take
@cjb and others, the knife-wielding man in China injured 22 children and one
adult but killed no one.There are two reasons why the debate focuses
on guns: because, as Lagomorph's statistics demonstrate, guns are a
murderer's weapon of choice, and because guns can be used as murder weapons
with less effort and less risk to self than knives, clubs, cars, bombs, swimming
pools, etc.I'm not opposed to sensible, sane people owning
guns, but I'm scared to death of mentally ill people with guns. We need to
help these people and heal them to the extent possible, but we need to keep guns
out of their hands.
Women are the key to changing America's gun culture. When a young single
woman learns that a single guy owns a firearm, she needs to tell him that she
thinks guys who feel more secure with a gun are, in effect, girly men (which is
often the case).Wives need to tell their husbands to get rid of
their guns because having a gun around the house dramatically increases the
chance that someone in the family will be shot or killed.
"Yesterday, 22 in china, at an elementary were attacked with a
knife."Yes, jsf, and not one of those children died.
DN: This my revised comment. I hope this one doesn't hurt your
sensibility.@BYR 1:46 You wrote: Can we NOT have a gun
control debate attached to this article? NO! , we should debate this, if
not now, when? You wrote: Good heavens, 27 people are dead, 18 of
them children. Exactly! That is why we need to talk and debate this
issue. Or you just pretend to mourn them for a few hours and then go back to our
normal lives? We can find crazy people all over the world. THe
difference is that our crazies have access to guns. As long as the
NRA continue oppossing gun control laws and our politicians continue being who
they are, we will continue having tragedies like this one.
It's a shame the NRA has spent so much money making it so easy for the
mentally unstable to obtain guns. One more public massacre sponsored by the
NRA. And, predictably, their response will be that this is a result of too few
guns in the hands of the untrained, untested, completely unregulated public.
It's a shame.It is way past time to discuss reasonable gun
access controls. Way past time.
Tragic at the best. My heart goes out to those personally affected. Now hear
this the anti gunners are going to be out now especially with who we are saddled
with as President. Those that love the 2nd amendment better get ready communism
is on its way. Remember 9/11/01 over 3000 people were killed with airplanes. Ban
those evil airplanes!!!!
We need to be talking about mental health care. It's just not
working to have people that are unstable and just give them a bottle of meds and
trust that they will take thier meds all by themselves. THEY"RE UNSTABLE!And trust me, ask a Dr, most of us can't be trusted to take our
diabetes neds or high blood pressure meds reliably. Why trust people that could
be a danger to society?This is not a gun issue. We have 600,000,000
plus guns in the country , more than 2 per capita- we can't undo that. This
is a mental health issue. A mental health issue that includes a lot of gun nuts
that honestly first think of thier guns to solve our problems. Seek help,
at134-There are several great examples of why we don't make
knee jerk reations. One is 9/11. We were mad and upset. More than 90 senators
voted to go to war with Iraq. It was a clear majority with the senate vote.
George Bush declared war. We went to war. And all the left has done since is
complain about it and condem the action. No one ever mentions the majority vote
in the senate. It is very political to jump on this bandwagon to try an
"easy fix" when the real reason is the moral breakdown of society. It
is not popular to tell society they have decreased morals, that fathers need to
stay in the homes and be fathers, and there is too much violence in hollywood
and video games (among many other societal breakdowns). That is where the
discussion and fix needs to start.
"Guns are used 2.5 million times a year in self-defense. Law-abiding
citizens use guns to defend themselves against criminals as many as 2.5 million
times every year"Boxerdog, you are citing a study by Gary Kleck
that has been widely used by pro gun groups. It has also been thoroughly
debunked as using extremely unsound methodology. It is just as bogus
as the claim that more people are killed by bats then guns.
@boxerdog915"@atl134 and all others who want guns to disappear from
society..."Uh... I don't want that, very few people do.
Wanting things like mandatory gun safety courses and limits on high-capacity
clips does not make guns disappear from society. "So, I wish
someone would explain to me why these statistics are ignored."I
would like to know why your so-called stats should even be considered real at
all.@patriotVery few progressives want to ban all guns. We
just want tighter gun control laws. Doesn't require a ban on them.
Notice these lunatics are typically always young men. The problem is a lack of
strong male role models. Where was this sick kid's father? Boys need
fathers that show them how to be men, taking an interest in their lives, provide
guidance and discipline, and lead by EXAMPLE. Men have to grow up and learn to
be MEN again. There are too many 30 and 40 year old juveniles with kids that
haven't a clue. This is the result of decades of allowing government to
take over the raising of our kids, and losing the ability to pull ourselves up
by our own bootstraps. It's a sick and sad commentary on society, that has
nothing to do with guns. It's about the gradual breakdown of the family,
and weak kneed liberal policies that systematically destroy the fabric of
society through futile policies that rob us of our agency and personal
responsibility. This tragedy will further push us down a path of government
sponsored band aids that mask symptoms, and utterly fail to cure the illness,
costing us our lives, liberties, and the pursuit of true happiness.
DN Subscriber you are talking idiocy. Further proliferation of guns is not the
answer and you and your friends at the NRA are totally complicit in the deaths
of these innocent children. What good does it do to advertise that guns are in
teachers' hands when the whole purpose of these insane killers is to get
themselves killed while creating endless hurt?
What ever our past thinking, regarding guns, pro or con, just is not working.
Something must change now.For those that say they will not give up
their guns because it is for their own protection, I can understand. Look
around in the middle east. Without guns, what protection does one have against
their own govenment.For those that say, all guns should be collected
by the government, I understand. It is easier stopping the crazy person if he
only has his hands or a knife to kill with. It is pretty hard to stop a person
with a gun unless you yourself is carrying a gun, which in most cases, is not
legal.Something has to be done before one more life is lost. I
don’t know what the answer is.I heard there was a town in Arizona
where everyone had to wear a loaded gun to enter the city. Zero crime. Would
be thieves or killers would no that he/she was outgunned from the start. Every
other person in the room would have their guns pointed at the bad guy.Government needs to figure something better than that approach. It needs to
be top priority.
My prayers go out to the victims and the defenseless and the vulnerable. I also
pray for those who have the mindset to maliciously murder others. Our society
is losing its moral anchor because many families today are disintegrating,
becoming corrupted in the ways of "the world" where "the natural
man" takes over. We need a return to traditional values as in putting off
the natural man, turning to the "Prince of Peace" and in giving as our
gift for Christmas, the gift of obedience to God's law. Should we defend ourselves against gun attacks like this? If the secretary at
the head office had a gun on hand, if the custodian had a gun on hand, and if
each teacher had a concealed weapon on hand, would there have been such a loss
of life? I know how I would answer.
A survey by researchers at the Harvard University School of Public Health found
strong statistical support for the idea that, even if you control for poverty
levels, more people die from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun
ownership. And despite what gun advocates say, countries like Israel and
Switzerland don’t disprove the point. Scholars Richard
Florida and Charlotta Mellander recently studied state-to-state variation in gun
homicide levels. They found that “[f]irearm deaths are significantly lower
in states with stricter gun control legislation.” This is backed up by
research on local gun control efforts and cross-border gun violence.Congress has passed several laws that cripple the ability for current gun
regulations to be enforced the way that they’re supposed to.
Guns/weapons don't kill people, people kill people. OK. Then why
can't we purchase our own rocket launchers, or grenades, or nuclear devices
even. It isn't the weapon, it is the person. Only blame the person, not
society for allowing people to have hand held machine guns or rocket lanchers,
et al. Blame the person.........
There are stories coming out about people who saved some children's lives.
Good. How fast did someone come who had the means to stop the killing?
We've all heard about the cops being only minutes away and what can happen
in a minute. Hopefully they learned from Columbine that those sounds they heard
while they were putting on the protctive gear marked the loss of a child. I
hoped that when they got in, the shooter could see that he couldn't do more
damage and was forced the shooter to have only one exit.Now let us
steel ourselves. It is the old fight, flight, or freeze option. What would we do
in that situation if we were a teacher? What are the possibllities? Hide, block,
resist. List all of them. Resist? Effectively? With what?Doors that
with a push of an office button can not be opened, like watertight doors on
ships that almost condemn those behind? No. Especially if there was a fire.I hope this is worded to get the comment, and the thoughs approved and
seen. Else an unexpressed thought is worth nothing. Especially if it is believed
to be truth.
If we want to stop this it is time for PARENTS to stop trying to be the best
friend and be PARENTS. Listen to the music your kids are listening to not just
the radio version but the CD version as well. If you can not understand it look
it up on line read the words. If you find it offensive do not let it in your
house. Turn the TV off or change the Chanel when inappropriate shows come on.
If shows or movies have a lot of violence in them TELL your children NO you are
not watching that. Do the same with the video games. these games were you go
around as a soldier killing people do you know what they were original designed
for? After WWI 13% of solders would not pull the trigger the first time training
on round targets. WWII this was lowered to 3% by using silhouettes. This was
still to high so other virtual methods were developed. These games are the
offshoots of those methods developed to make solders more likely to pull the
trigger. So before letting your kids play them think about what they were meant
1aggie said" even if you control for poverty levels, more people die
from gun homicides in areas with higher rates of gun ownership. And despite what
gun advocates say, countries like Israel and Switzerland don’t disprove
the point."Strange than that this happened in the state with the 4th
strictest gun laws! By your logic this then never should have happened. Then
again perhaps if we would go after the REAL problem our culture of glorifying
violence through music, TV, movies, and games rather than the guns we could
really solve the problem.