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Jimmer watch: Jimmer Fredette wraps up productive week; earns praise from teammate

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  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:13 a.m.

    I've poked fun at the "Jimmer Watch" a couple of times, but on this occasion I'll say this instead ... Jimmer strikes me as a good guy who approaches things the right way. I hope for him that when he eventually gets an opportunity for consistent minutes, he'll do well and become an important part of that teams success.
    I still think this "watch" should include the leading rookie of the year candidate ... Mr Lillard.

  • Cougs4Life Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:40 a.m.

    Jimmer might need to hit the weight room. JJ Reddick is a similar player (slightly undersized, good 3-point shooter, limited defensively), but based on this picture, Reddick looks to be much stronger, at least in the arms and shoulders.

  • OCoug Ogden, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:42 a.m.

    Jimmer had a good week. Kind of surprised to hear praise coming from D. Cousins. Jimmer needs to play well enough that come trade deadline time, another team will take a risk trading for him. Banking on his ability to put the ball in the hoop. He doesn't play great defense, what true point guard really does? The last great point guard defender I recall is the Glove Gary Payton.

    The D-News should do a Lillard Watch.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:03 a.m.

    Glad Jimmer is doing well...now on to bigger and better things.

    Lillard Watch:

    @ Cleveland: 24 pts, 6 Reb, 11 assists
    @ Charlotte: 24 pts, 3 Reb, 9 assists
    @ Indiana: 23 pts, 3 Reb, 6 assists
    vs. Sacramento: 12 pts, 1 Reb, 9 assists

    The Trail Blazers won the at Cleveland and Charlotte before dropping games to the Pacers and Kings. Damian Lillard was named Rookie of the Month for November, and he is currently 12th in the league in scoring. He is averaging 19.1 points per game, 6.3 assists/game and 3.3 rebounds per game. Unfortunately the head-to-head matchup against Jimmer didn't happen as Fredette did not play in that game.

    Cheers!

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:12 a.m.

    @Cougs4Life

    At the NBA combine, Jimmer bench pressed 184 punds 14 times. This was better than almost every one in the draft. JJ Reddick is only stronger than Jimmer in his dreams.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:18 a.m.

    So glad for this update! Sometimes I forget what to be obsessed with.

  • WON84 PLANO, TX
    Dec. 10, 2012 12:24 p.m.

    Agreed on the sentiments regarding Lillard. He's sick.

    Sea bass, I don't know what we're going to do with you!

  • Still Blue after all these years Kaysville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 12:39 p.m.

    First, if Fredette got the minutes Lilliard got, his number wuold be as impressive, if not more. Second, if Fredette played on a team with any concept (the Kings have none) of team basketball - both offensively and defensively - his numbers would be better than Lilliards. Everyone says his defense is bad, but he has no backup defense. Jazz guards would be beat almost every time without backup. And Jimmer could burn every defender he played except they have backup. Third, Fredette will never become what he is capable of becoming in the sorry Kings organization. They are dumb, don't care and only trying to suck cash out so the owners can have money. Smart is hardly an NBA coach and will absolutely not allow Fredette to flourish. But I applaud Jimmer's attitude in the face of this ridiculous mess in Sacramento.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 1:06 p.m.

    Still Blue.

    Lillard has a better FG percentage, better 3-point percentage, and averages 5 times as many assists.

    But go ahead and stick your head in the sand and don't let any amount of facts convince you that Jimmer is not the greatest player in the NBA, nay, the greatest player in the history on mankind.

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    @Still Blue after all these years:

    I kind of find it ironic that Jimmer is suffering playing behind a lineup that isn't team-oriented. Maybe his college days are coming back to haunt him. He definitely had a shoot first mentality...if you doubt it, watch the last few minutes of the tournament game vs. Florida. I'll say it again...I thought he was going to take his shoes off and chuck them at the hoop that game. Or remember when he was double-teamed in the closing seconds vs. the Jazz--he wasn't going to pass up taking the last shot for anything. The 35 footers were cute when he made them, but made him look like a giant ball hog when he missed them.

    Fredette is a great kid and a quality person. He's an inspiration to church basketball hoopers everywhere, and the D-News (barring a restraining order), just can't quit him, but let's not get carried away and say he is better than Lillard, good as Lillard, or even in my opinion, relatively close to Lillard.

    Lillard is the real deal! Future Rookie of the Year!

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    Dec. 10, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    @Two For Flinching
    Then there is the fact that The Jimmer has trouble guarding the faster PGs in the league. That's why he tends to remain on the bench the entire game on several occassions. He gives up too many points.

  • MSA lehi, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    @ 2 for flinching
    Sorry, you are the one with the fact problem. Where are you getting your facts? Lillard does have more assists but Jimmer has a better FG% & 3P%. Not to mention a much better FT%.

    With that said, I think Lillard has the athleticism to be a great (not just good) NBA PG. Jimmers skills at PG are much better suited for the college level; however, if used right he could be a very deadly weapon for an unselfish team.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:07 p.m.

    Two For Flinching

    Lillard could have a hall of fame career in the NBA (possible, but unlikely) but that would still be overshadowed by what Jimmer accomplished as a collegian.

    There's a reason EVERY college basketball fan remembers Jimmermania, but Lillard's college basketball career was hardly a blip on the national radar.

    Jimmer - concensus national player of the year
    Lillard - virtually unknown outside of Utah and the Big Sky

  • FatMan86 West Jordan, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:10 p.m.

    I hope Jimmer can figure it out and become a great NBA player, but the facts are indisputable at this point, Lillard is the better all around player.....and it's not even close. I can't put my finger on it, but some players are just better suited to the NBA style game.

  • Coach Biff Lehi, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:10 p.m.

    How did Jimmer and Lillard do head to head in college? Just wondering....

  • SCCougar LEXINGTON, SC
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:29 p.m.

    Jimmer is in the top 10 for points per 48 minutes. For the limited amount of time he is in a game he is being very productive. If he could consistently get 25 to 30 mpg you would see his ppg go way up.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:52 p.m.

    poor flinched

    Would a change of subject make you feel better? Let's talk Alex Smith... lost his starting QB slot... there does that make you feel better?

    I guess you're still upset that Jimmer made that half court shot a couple of years ago and its still on YouTube.

    Get over it. Jimmer makes the news in the Dnews.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    Dec. 10, 2012 2:55 p.m.

    Jimmer Fredette gained national fame during his collegiate career at Brigham Young University, where he was the leading scorer in all of NCAA Division I basketball during his senior season and earned every major National Player of the Year honor, including the Wooden Award, the Naismith Award, the Adolph Rupp Trophy, and the Oscar Robertson Trophy.

    Jimmer led his team to the Sweet Sixteen and a Top 10 ranking.

    As a redshirt junior, Damian Lillard led Weber State University to a 14–2 record in Big Sky conference play and an appearance in the Big Sky championship game.

    Lillard couldn't even lead his team to a Big Sky championship.

    Regardless of what Lillard does during his NBA career, he will NEVER be the Concensus National College Player of the Year!

    --------

    Collegiate and professional careers are mutually exclusive. You don't need a great pro career to validate an outstanding collegiate career. And an under-the-radar collegiate career doesn't rule out having a great pro career - see Sam Bowie and Scottie Pippen.

  • AzTim Gilbert, AZ
    Dec. 10, 2012 3:13 p.m.

    What language is "Dog, Jimmer got moves, dog"? My grade school English teacher really let me down.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 3:14 p.m.

    I love Jimmer and hope he gets his chance to play more minutes. I'd love to see how he does now as a starter, with some experience under his belt.

    But, you can't make any relevant comparison between his stats and Lillard's. Since Lillard starts and Jimmer comes off the bench, they're usually playing against very different teams. Gordon Hayward scores a lot more points coming off the bench than he did when he started. Jimmer may be developing into one a credible threat off the bench, but probably would be expected to curb his shooting and dish out more assists if he started. And, when he does create a shot, he's usually doing so against a second team defense.

    The statistical comparisons are absolutely meaningless.

    And, I've said it before and I'll say it again, everyone who bemoans Jimmer's defense is woefully oblivious to horrible defense being played by many starters, including some of the Jazz. Jimmer's defense is no worse than NBA average, and those who keep beating that drum are just lazy scout wannabe's who regurgitate lame cliches to sound more knowledgeable than they really are.

  • dbrbmw Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 3:31 p.m.

    To Mr Wildcat,

    I wonder if Jimmer had the minutes lillard was given what his numbers would be. I'm betting better. But until a different coach is in charge of Sacramento we just won't know. Until then we might as well root for both players. An angry Ewete fan would boo anyone not from the U. Us classier fans surely can root for all players who played at any Utah school.

  • dnay Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    To compare Jimmer to Lillard is stupid, Lillard is a natural point guard and Jimmer is not, so Jimmer has to convert to that position, that's not a easy thing to do in the NBA and especially when you have no support from the organization or the coach. To Sacramento you don't go out and continue to sign more point guards if you want to develop someone. Now Lillard is a better pro and I think will have a great career, I like his game and I think he could become one of the better point guards in the league. Jimmer on the other hand can become a good player but I think his ceiling is lower because his defense will hold him down a little. As far as a college player Jimmer was better, but the pro game is different. And for those who say Jimmer is selfish, well usually teams don't win with selfish players, most guys couldn't put up those numbers without hurting their teams but Jimmer did it and improved the team. Bottom line there both fun to watch.

  • #utesnation Centerville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 4:11 p.m.

    @ true blue

    you really aren't letting go of your obsession with Jimmer are you??? Are you that worried about him?? To say that what lillard is doing and WILL continue to do at the HIGHEST level of basketball (rookie of the year, elite PG, Hall of famer) would be over shadowed by one year of jimmermania is foolish. i'm sorry but I think "jimmermania" is going to be overshadowed by the fact that jimmer doesn't play more than 10 minutes a game.

    You're right jimmer was the national player of the year... but that was two years ago... and I think its safe to say that when you're picked 6th overall and you're in the race to win rookie of the year you're not only known, but well known outside of the state of utah and the big sky... it was a good attempt though..

    Also, byu fans don't start beating your chests thinking this is some underlying attempt to start a war about byu and utah....

  • oldcougar Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 4:14 p.m.

    Because Lillard is having a wonderful rookie season, does that somehow mean Jimmer is no good? Because Jimmer was in a situation and on a team where he could shine in college, does that mean Lillard was not a top college player? Of course, the answer to both questions is "NO!" They're both fine players. I'm proud that Lillard went up from Weber and that he's doing so well. I wish Jimmer was in a situation to play and improve more. We're lucky to have had them both here in Utah. I wish them both the best.

  • OCoug Ogden, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 4:21 p.m.

    @Wildcat

    Still waiting for your Lillard Watch to give us the number of minutes and turnovers per game from Lillard. As stated previously, I think your watch is great, but it needs to be more complete and balanced.

    @Two for flinching

    You and Chris B. seem to enjoy posting inaccurate information.
    Lillards FG %43 Jimmers 48% Lillards 3pt %38 Jimmers 41%
    Lillards APG 6.5 Jimmers 1.3 Lillards MPG 38 Jimmers 11

  • eagle Provo, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 6:08 p.m.

    They need to play the guy, simple as that. While he sat on the bench the Kings stunk. Maybe they will continue to stink. So you might as well play him and see what happens...

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2012 6:36 p.m.

    #utesnation

    Gotta laugh at the inconsistency of Utah fans who still follow Alex Smith around like lost little puppies, but whine about BYU fans continuing to show an interest Jimmer.

    Regardless of how you spin Lillard's early success in the NBA, it doesn't retroactively apply to his barely noticed on a national level collegiate career.

    I see you're still living with the nightmare of Jimmer's last game in the Huntsman where he literally destroyed the Utes single-handedly?

    No wonder utenation is in such a panic about the possibility of Jabari committing to BYU.

    Following Jimmermania with Jabarimania would be more than utenation could handle.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 7:29 p.m.

    Snack PAC

    That was funny... thank you!

  • Straitpath PROVO, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 8:14 p.m.

    We have someone we love to follow, Jimmer. Who cares about other good players? Jimmer is the whole package.

  • 56chevy dana point , CA
    Dec. 10, 2012 8:26 p.m.

    Why is it that the Lillard fans come on to every Jimmer article and start trying to compare the their abilities and records. This is not about Lillard. The indisputable fact is that Jimmer is probably the most famous college basketball player to come out of Utah.....FACT! That does't mean we start comparing him to Danny Ainge. Only people who are trying to compare Jimmer to Lillard are Lillard fans. Both Jimmer and Lillard have a long long way to go to finish their NBA careers. Let's just see how it all works out. It is totally stupid to compare the two. If we go on the record results....they speak for themselves. Believe me.....barring a career ending injury for either player, they will be great in their own way. One thing is for sure and is also a fact, Lillard does not sell the tickets that Jimmer does nor does he have the following nation wide, nor will he ever have the fan following that Jimmer has.

  • Cougarista Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:00 p.m.

    Right on Snack PAC. Alec Smith was a good collegiate that Utes fans still idolize. He looks like Aaron Rodgers until he gets on the field and then - nothing. Hey Ute fans, Jimmer is a good guy and fun to follow. Don't try to spoil the fun.

  • From Ted's Head Orem, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:20 p.m.

    I never watched Lillard in a college game. In fact, I know more about Kemba Walker than Lillard. Lillard could go on to be the NBA MVP and I would still pay more attention to Jimmer...because I enjoy the story of the short white Mormon kid trying to make it in the NBA. I hope he continues to improve and gets a chance to play enough minutes to get his rhythm and confidence back. Jimmermania is not dead...just waiting to roar again, even if just in Provo or for a few games. Which is one of the reason's for the Jimmer Watch. :-)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2012 9:49 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Following Jimmermania with Jabarimania would be more than utenation could handle.

    -----------

    Judging by how BYU played last weekend against the team picked to finish last in the PAC-12 you better hope you land Jabari.

    Lillard vs. Jimmer comparisons, really?

    Lets just hope Jimmer stays around for Jabari vs Jimmer comparisons. Now that would be interesting.

  • Snack PAC Olympus Cove, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:04 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Judging by how BYU played last weekend against the team picked to finish last in the PAC-12 you better hope you land Jabari."

    Why? BYU already has a Top 10 recruiting class committed for 2013. Jabari would simply push that closer to, if not all the way, to #1.

  • Mitchell_12 Ogden, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:33 p.m.

    We Lillard fans are NOT trying to talk bad about Jimmer. All we are trying to do is ask for the same exposure for Lillard. Why not be happy for both guys that have made it to the NBA. I hope Jimmer can get more minutes/get traded. Glad Lillard is having a great year and hope he continues his rookie of the year ways! Lets give credit where credit is due.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 10, 2012 10:39 p.m.

    @Snack PAC

    Why? BYU already has a Top 10 recruiting class committed for 2013. Jabari would simply push that closer to, if not all the way, to #1.

    ---------------

    Nope.

    With a Lone Peak High roster you are ranked:

    ESPN #17
    Rivals #30
    Scouts #25

    Jabari is the real deal, but not sure how a roster full of Lone Peak High players gets you passed the Sweet 16 considering a PAC-12 "bottom feeder" was too "physical" for your team last weekend.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:18 p.m.

    Per ESPN:

    Lillard: 43.4 FG percentage, 38.2 3-point percentage
    Jimmer: 40.0 FG percentage, 36.7 3-point percentage

    Also, claiming that being the national college player of the year is a bigger deal than being inducted to the hall of fame in the NBA is laughable. NBA is bigger/better, and it's not close.

    @ Sammy

    If you want to talk about Alex Smith that is fine. He has already accomplished far more in his career than Jimmer ever will. Not only that but Smith will be a starter in the league next year. Think Jimmer is going to be starting for anybody on this side of the Atlantic Ocean?

  • USNGary South Jordan, UT
    Dec. 10, 2012 11:38 p.m.

    Uteology, who won that game? U can't beat the Y even when they shoot in the low 30% for the game

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 6:45 a.m.

    Thank you Mitchell_12 (credit where credit is due),

    I hope Jimmer does well. He is a great talent. I didn't like his style of game in college and didn't think it would crossover to the NBA as well, which is proving to be correct so far.

    There are reasons why Jimmer doesn't get more minutes. I hope he does get on a different team, but I think his role is not going to be what many Cougar fans think.

    OCOUG--I will try to update my Lillard watch but only have 200 characters to do so.

    In the meantime, the D-News not even posting a story when Lillard wins Rookie of the Month for November--SHAMEFUL. The DesNews readers deserve better--and I'm going to give it to them.

    Your Pal,

    Wildcat

  • gchris rock springs, wy
    Dec. 11, 2012 7:20 a.m.

    To all the Lillard fans: This article is about Jimmer Fredette, not Damien Lillard. I saw Lillard play once in college--against BYU--and I wasn't impressed. I've seen him play twice in the NBA and he did okay, but he's no Jimmer. Fredette will have his day--just not with the Sacramento Kings, a team that happens to be the worst managed, most poorly coached and most disfunctional NBA team in history. I enjoy reading the "Jimmer Watch" stories. I wouldn't even read "Damien Watch" stories. Does the Ogden Examiner run Damien Watch? Good, go there.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 9:07 a.m.

    @Two For Flinching

    Per NBA's official website:

    Lillard: 43.4 FG percentage, 38.2 3-point percentage, 82.1 freethrow percentage
    Jimmer: 48.1 FG percentage, 41.4 3-point percentage, 91.7 freethrow percentage

    NBA stats are not open to opinion or interpretation, and I'm guessing that ESPN is not in charge of official NBA statistics. While you may be entitled to your own opinion about Jimmer's abilities, you are not entitled to your own facts, and neither is ESPN.

  • SportsFan Orem, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 11:01 a.m.

    2fer

    Being a National College Player of the Year IS a MUCH Bigger deal than having a few good games to start your rookie season in the NBA.

    btw, Lillard was 2-14 last night, 0-5 from 3; 5-13, 2-5 from 3 the previous game; not exactly HOF-type numbers.

    Call us when Lillard is inducted into the NBA HOF and we'll talk.

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 11:23 a.m.

    Uteology

    Bottom line,

    which you conveniently overlooked,

    with Nick Emery, Eric Mika, Luke Worthington, Jakob Hartsock, and Braiden Shaw already signed,

    TJ Haws already committed,

    Kyle Collinsworth returning from a mission,

    and Tyler Haws, Matt Carlino, Anson Winder, Josh Sharp, Cory Calvert, Nate Austin, and others returning next season,

    even without Jabari, BYU is loaded with talent for the next several years.

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 1:09 p.m.

    gchris

    "To all the Lillard fans: This article is about Jimmer Fredette, not Damien Lillard."

    Amen!

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 2:32 p.m.

    @ Lets debate

    Just looked at NBA . com

    Jimmer's number are .476 FG percentage and .400 for his career. 3 point shots .400 (.366 career). FT's .920 (.863 career). Nothing like having a blatant lie completely exposed, am I right? Btw, NBA's website also confirmed that Lillard's career numbers are better than Jimmer's.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 3:52 p.m.

    @Two for Flinching

    You can call 1/4 of one season a "career" if you like, everyone else is making an honest comparison of numbers for this season. The only "career" either of them has at this point to make any kind of meaningful comparison is a "college career." Need I embarrass you about that comparison?

    Nothing like having blatantly dishonest spin completely exposed, am I right?

  • Wildcat O-town, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 3:53 p.m.

    If the DNews would show some sense of professionalism and do a Lillard Watch, I would stay on that thread. A potential Rookie of the Year deserves a story...much more than a faded out college fad from a couple of years ago (although I gotta admit, that small, slow, and pale kid sure plays a mean bball).

    Until then, just get used to your old pal--Wildcat!

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    Dec. 11, 2012 6:56 p.m.

    USNGary
    South Jordan, UT

    Uteology, who won that game? U can't beat the Y even when they shoot in the low 30% for the game

    -----------

    We're picked last in the PAC-12, so why are you shooting 30% against Utah at HOME? Why not take high percentage shots inside, why couldn't you dominate the paint, why keep shooting from the outside? Oh yea, we were "too physical" for your team.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 7:46 p.m.

    @Uteology - even the very best teams have bad games sometimes, even shooting a low percentage in their own building on occasion. So what? It's still true that even on a bad night, the Cougs beat your Utes with just over 30% shooting.

    Although even decent teams would have trouble beating Duke on an off-night for Duke, BYU's not exactly Duke. Aren't you embarrassed to have such a horrid team that they can't beat an above average team on one of their worst shooting nights? I thought the Utes played some good defense and showed some real potential, but they still lost to a very lackluster and underperforming BYU team. Seems that your slamming BYU only has the effect of piling on embarrassment for your beloved Utes. Seems you have a pretty low opinion of the Utes. Just how awful do you think they are?

    Obviously the Utes weren't "too physical" because #1 the Cougs won, and #2 nobody on the team was complaining about the Utes being "too physical."

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 11, 2012 8:00 p.m.

    Hey Uteology - the Utes were physical on Saturday, I could see that. But, they lost, so apparently they "weren't physical enough" to keep BYU from scoring more than them. How could they be "too much" of anything good if they lost, and who said they were "too physical" for the Cougars anyway?

    And, why did BYU keep shooting from the outside? Who knows, but I don't think it has anything to do with Utah being physical. Have you watched any BYU games for the last 5 years? That's their game plan for every game. Live by the 3, die by the 3. If they miss their first 20, they'll shoot 20 more hoping the averages work in their favor.

    But yeah - everyone's crying about Utah being "too physical."

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 2:18 a.m.

    @ LetDebate

    What is dishonest? Lillard's career NBA numbers (so far) vs. Jimmer's career NBA numbers (so far) are completely valid. And the numbers clearly show that Lillard has outperformed Jimmer.

    As for college careers: Comparing both of their senior seasons Lillard had a better FG percentage, a better 3-point percentage, and averaged less turnovers. The only difference is that Jimmer took over 750 shots and Lillard took just under 500. In short, JF was a ball hog.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 11:02 a.m.

    @2Fer

    What is dishonest? Jimmer's season NBA numbers (so far) vs. Lillard's season NBA numbers (so far) are completely valid. And the numbers clearly show that Jimmer has outperformed Lillard in the minutes given.

    See - I can play the same game. If you don't want a battle of cherry-picked stats with ridiculous claims of dishonesty, you shouldn't start one. On the first comment page I explained why statistical comparisons between the two are absolutely meaningless, but you keep trotting them out with your own spin to somehow "prove" Lillard's superiority.

    Let's see - they play on different teams, under different systems, playing different roles, at different times of the game, and their levels of NBA experience are different, yet you think there's enough data to prove something. The only thing you're proving is that your bias prevents you from offering a credible analysis.

    Same with a meaningless college comparison of two great players in wildly different circumstances. I guess you should have been in charge of all the national collegiate basketball awards, since your 3 statistics clearly show your prowess in comparing all factors that make the best overall college player.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 2:28 p.m.

    Memo to the BYU Homers ... it's not all about Jimmer's offensive stats per minutes played. There have been a ton of players who never made it in the NBA who had good offensive minutes for the few minutes they were played ... yet the reason they never made it was for something else ...
    ... DEFENSE.
    End of story.

  • OCoug Ogden, UT
    Dec. 12, 2012 8:49 p.m.

    @Wildcat and others

    Jimmer is not a worn out fad as the more than 50 comments on this thread alone show. What does Jimmer being "pale" or dare I say white have anything to do with anything? Love him or hate him, we can't leave him alone.

  • Two For Flinching Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 6:45 p.m.

    LetsDebate

    They both play in the exact same league, and in the same conference. They both play against the same 31 teams. Basketball is pretty simple to understand. The better, more valuable players, play more. Lillard plays a ton while Jimmer warms the bench. That fact alone effectively ends the argument. Add in their respective stats and the comparison between the two becomes absurd.

    You did make me laugh with the experience comment though. Since when is having less experience considered an asset?

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 7:43 p.m.

    @2Fer

    Basketball is simple to simpletons and casual observers. The more one understands about basketball, the more complicated it becomes. Probably better for some to stay simple, where a few stats seem to tell the entire story, and you can pick the stats that support your biases.

    You might notice that I've not claimed that Jimmer is a better NBA player than Lillard. I just think your arguments and stats are meaningless and show a rather weak understanding of the many facets that determine a player's worth. I've countered your simple and manipulated arguments with simple and manipulated arguments to demonstrate how easy it is for a simple person to manipulate an argument with cherry-picked stats. Obviously, my parallelism has been lost on you as you keep returning with equally shallow points.

    For example - you think starters play the same team as 2nd-stringers. Good one!

    Your rationale that Lillard had a better college career than Jimmer is truly worthy of a hardy laugh, and is probably the most obvious example of your blind man-crush on Lillard, or your blind hatred of Jimmer. Either way, it's surely strips you of any credibility.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Dec. 13, 2012 8:04 p.m.

    To the Flinchman - you ask "Since when is having less experience considered an asset?"

    Yet, in the prior paragraph, you encourage us to add in their respective stats to make a comparison absurd.

    I've got to agree with LetsDebate - you're far too biased, and obviously so, to make a rational analysis.

    Having more experience (Jimmer) has led to better on-court play, and his stats per minutes played this season are BETTER than Lillards, so adding in the stats seems to only diminish your argument and make YOU look absurd as a debater.

    I'll concede that their roles on their respective teams, and their respective minutes on the court, give a clue that Lillard is indeed more valuable with possibly better talent at this given time. It may be a glimpse into his future, but he may be a flash in the pan - you have no idea with just half of half a season under his belt. Good grief - CJ Miles gave us stretches just as long that made us think he was a superstar in the making.

    Your reasoning is extremely weak, so maybe stop pretending you have it all wrapped up.

  • sammyg Springville, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 6:10 a.m.

    And to all you Ute homers still smarting from last week's 'we almost beat BYU' moment that said Jimmer would never make it in the NBA...

    ... he did.

    Go watch a 49ers game this weekend and watch Smith backup CK.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Dec. 14, 2012 8:51 a.m.

    @sammyg

    "And to all you Ute homers ... that said Jimmer would never make it in the NBA ... he did. Go watch a 49ers game this weekend and watch Smith backup CK."

    What's your version of "make it in the NBA"? We all knew he'd get drafted and he's under contract so it's not like he's not staying for a while.

    The funny thing is you then go straight to Alex Smith as if that's your version of not making it in the big leagues ... yet Alex has had what, 2 or 3 new contracts since his rookie deal? And by the way, he's a backup ... not a backup to the backup.

    sammyg = FAIL