I think that this was Obama's plan all along. It is to bad that people just
were blind by him and his smooth talking and promises that he is not keeping. To
me it is sad but now it is just to late and we all need to pay the price for
what others have done and will do. God Bless America
@ Neanderthal: Since there will still be other sources of income, that whole
"run the government for 8 days" thing is a red herring. (How long will
the government run if we don't raise taxes?)Since not all the
deficit is related to Obamacare, that also is a red herring.There
needs to be a balanced approach of tax hikes and spending cuts - which is what
is being proposed. (If we just do cuts without tax increases, how much will
that reduce the deficit? Of course, the answer to that depends on what is cut
and by how much, but most programs people are willing to put on the chopping
block add very little to the deficit and reducing them or even cutting them
entirely will do little to help - and they might make things worse.)
How about cutting congressional salaries, pensions, budgets, and many other
benefits for lawmakers? If my Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid are on
the table, why are the same benefits for Congress not equally on the table?
Belt tightening has taken place all over corporate America, so why can't
belt tightening occur on the beltway?
"Fewer than half the Republicans polled favor continuing the Bush-era tax
cuts for the wealthy."And the GOP is fighting this because?
They are obviously putting party ideology ahead of their constituents. Clearly.
NeanderthalI agree, taxing the Rich is not the solution.
No one has ever said that it was.However, it IS PART of the
solution. Reforming Medicare is not a "viable solution" by
itself.Reforming SS is not a "viable solution" by itself.Cutting defense spending is not a "viable solution" by itself.By your logic, we should not even look at them.But guess
what? Taken together, a bunch of partial solutions do become
"viable".It is not that difficult of a concept.
It seems to me that what these polls really say is please do something that does
not impact me. I do not make over $250,000 per year so it is ok to raise taxes
there. I will be impacted by cuts to Social Security and Medicare so leave
those alone. We live in a republic rather than a democracy so that our elected
officials can make difficult choices that are in the interest of the country.
We need courage on the part of our elected leaders to acknowledge that
entitlements hold the key to solvency and future economic prosperity. While I
am fine with a tax or revenue increase from the top 2%, it may be necessary to
push the shared sacrifice down the chart even further through increases to many
of the rest of us or cuts to the entitlements we enjoy or hope to enjoy. Now is
not the time to govern by polls. It is the time to do what is right for the
country as a whole as hard to define as that may be.
Ahh yes, but Obama needs a straw man, someone to blame for his miserable
failures. Who else could he blame than the "rich"? Those people who
already pay nearly 80% of all federal income taxes. He certainly can't
blame the 47%, those who pay no federal income taxes, could he? Never mind that
taxing the "rich" will not even begin to solve our deficit problems for
more than 8 days, its the lie that got him elected and re-elected! The bad news
is now we have to face the truth; we don't have the money to fund all
Obama's entitlements! Nobody does and more smoke and mirrors from the White
House doesn't change that fact!
The people have spoken! Let it be! I hope House Republicans just get out of the
way and let fate take its course. Let Obama, the man we voted for, do his thing.
When things are really bad four years from now, when have incurred
insurmountable debt, when the US dollar is worthless, when all the rich people
and their businesses have moved to China, they will no longer be able to blame
Republicans. Let's just get this over with. It's going to happen.
Might as well happen sooner than later.
Keep singing his praises that its OK to steal someones personal property. When
the rich are not rich then the socialists/communists will come after the middle
class.Obama wants taxes raised on everyone but he needs to start with class
warfare. Remember trickle down.I hope all of you that work for a rich guy ends
up in the bread line and sooner rather than later. Instead of making a rich man
poor it should be make a poor man rich. Obamas plan does not have that in
mind.His is to make everyone dependant on the Government. He want to bring this
Country to a point where it is just one of the other countries instead of the
County we have been.
Watch words and tag lines are among the favorite devices of propagandists.
Fiscal Cliff is an excellent case in point. Ask any one, even politicians what
it means and you will have many different answers. The reality is
there is no such thing as the "fiscal cliff" but rather a fictitious
point of argument to force a predetermined outcome, the perfect Marxist
application of the Hegelian Dialectic. We would all do well to look
at the much bigger picture and see that the United States is fiscally bankrupt
and not by accident but by design. Obama has been working the class warfare this
whole time, another Marxist strategy. We cannot be distracted the from the very
real peril of the total destruction of the United States by bickering over
something as ridicules as a phony "fiscal cliff".
Wow! So more people are starting to believe that someone else should pay more
for the services they are getting? Maybe we should test this out at
restaurants. Everyone order whatever they want and after we are done eating, we
can vote for who pays for the food. I guess with the deficit, the people who
pay for everything that night can pay for last nights meals as well.Are we past the tipping point? Have the takers reached a majority? What
happens if Obama gets the House for his last 2 years?
Raising taxes is never the answer when facing a economic catastrophe,
that's just ingnoring the problem. Even the rich can't bail us out of
this mess.And please stop proposing programs that only the rich can
afford like green energy (who can afford an electric car that needs a $10,000
batter replaced every 5 years), healthcare (the rich will buy their doctors
while the rest of us will have to settle for the "system") and bailouts
for failed green companies and mismanaged corporations (bailouts only went to
already wealthy CEO's)...Pres. Obama has no plan for America an
it's prosperity. It's obvious becaus what he puts on the table his own
party members even won't vote for. We don't need anymore evidence,
it's pretty clear we are being lied too.
On Tuesday, FedEx Chairman and CEO Fred Smith, an adviser to Sen. John
McCain's presidential campaign, said that the notion that tax hikes on the
richest Americans would kill jobs was simply "mythology."Monday, a gathering of the nation's top defense executives took a
surprising turn when they endorsed tax rate increases on the wealthy and cuts of
up to $150 billion to the Pentagon's budget. Top executives from Northrop
Grumman, Pratt & Whitney, TASC and RTI International Metals appeared at the
National Press Club at an event organized by the Aerospace Industries
Association, the top defense contractor lobbyist.David Langstaff,
CEO of TASC, said "In the near term, [income tax rates] need to go up some,
This is a fairness issue -- there needs to be recognition that we’re not
collecting enough revenue. In the last decade we’ve fought two wars
without raising taxes. So I think it does need to go up.”AT&T CEO Randall Stephenson, who was also at the meeting, said in a
statement that a deal "will require a compromise involving an increase in
both tax rates and revenue."
Truthseeker,Thank you. I was so against raising taxes, but since you
just appealed to a bunch of rich CEOs who think taxes should be raised, out of
fairness, I feel so much more at ease about it. Just like when 40 billionaire
Warren Buffett says we should pay more taxes, out of fairness, I absolutely,
wholeheartedly agree with him. Because when you're a CEO who makes (and
more importantly hoards) millions or billions, you know all about fairness and
equity (no pun intended), right? Who's side are you on?
I know republicans want to cut entitlements, but why do they only want to cut
entitlements for the poor and middle class? I have not seen them propose
cutting the entitlement program for big oil. They also propose
closing loopholes, like the mortgage deduction and charitable giving. Those are
the only tax deductions most middle class Americans have. Why not close
loopholes like the ones for private jets.When you look at the
republican plan (if you can call it that) it hits middle and low income
Americans the hardest, and as would be expected does very little to wealthy
Americans. Republicans assume that most Americans are cannot see
through their little bait and switch game.
A Federal Budget Lesson* U.S. Tax revenue: $2,170,000,000,000* Fed
budget: $3,820,000,000,000* New debt: $1,650,000,000,000* National
debt: $16,271,000,000,000* Recent proposed budget cuts: $38,500,000,00 Obama’s proposed tax increases on the rich: $150,000,000,000Let's now remove 8 zeros and pretend it's a household budget:* Annual family income: $21,700* Money the family spent:
$38,200* New debt on the credit card: $16,500 New income from taxes
on your rich neighbors: $150.00* Outstanding balance on the credit card:
$162,560* Total budget cuts so far: $3.85Got it???
A fundamental principle of economics as well as business is that you cannot cost
cut your way into prosperity or out of a recession. Period.
Soak the rich. Cut defense by 10%. This will help "defense" actually be
defense instead of empire maintenance.
@Kalindra:"Since there will still be other sources of
income..."Like what?In fact, there's a high
probability that tax revenue will diminish as job creators pull back... and
possibly move their job creation capacities to somewhere overseas."How long will the government run if we don't raise taxes?"The way to keep the government running is to make it more efficient...
buy cutting our waste and abuse. The Federal government is bloated and too
big."Since not all the deficit is related to Obamacare, that
also is a red herring."Obamacare will exacerbate budget
problems... as well as increase taxes on the middle class... something Obama
promised not to do."There needs to be a balanced approach of tax
hikes and spending cuts..."Sounds like a Democrat talking
point.I prefer a sane approach to a balanced one... such as reducing
the size of the Federal government."If we just do cuts without
tax increases, how much will that reduce the deficit?"About the
equivalent of 8 days worth.
Lets just raise taxes on everyone making less than $250,000 and no taxes on
those making above that because they are the job creators and entertainers and
have suffered so much in their altruistic view of humanity. It's about time
we all give back to those who have given more, and when they have all of the
money, the plutacracy complete, we can all eat cake.
Hey Mountanman, you are right. But there are a large number of parasites in the
moocher class that do not care about those numbers. They only believe that Obama
is not going to tax them so they are fine with his approach. But they will find
out that they will be impacted as this nations economy goes into a tailspin.I am a member of the evil rich that makes more than $250k per year. Go
ahead and try to tax me to death. Believe me when I say that my employees will
suffer more than I will because they will lose all of their income before I lose
all of mine. And I have a lot more in reserve than any one of them has. I started my business and risked everything I had to make it successful.
My employees risked nothing. Yet every one of them makes more working for me
than they have ever made before. But if you think they will somehow do better as
I do worse then congratulations, you are fully qualified to be an "Obama
voter"! And you will pay a very heavy price for your ignorance.
Republican logic:One time stimulus of 700B=outrageous expense that
crashed our economy. Yearly income of 800B from taxes=drop in the bucket that
won't make any difference at all.
Surprise Surprise, Polls indicate the majority would like to vote the minority
out of their money.
@Neanderthal"Sorry, but taxing the rich will give only enough tax
revenue to run the government for about eight days. Doesn't sound like a
viable solution to me."That's not the only thing Democrats
want to do to help balance the budget..."What we needed was
someone to kill Obamacare."Repeal of Obamacare has been scored
as increasing the deficit, not cutting it as you think it does (remember,
Obamacare comes with Medicare reductions and tax increases, those pay for the
bill so repealing Obamacare negates the things that pay for it and thus does not
help the deficit).@MountanmanTwo problems with your house
budget.1. Obamas tax increases on the rich is 80 billion a year, not 150
billion. 2. You removed 9 zeroes from that number, if you take into
account my first point and remove 8 zeroes it should be $800, not $150.Yes, I know that's still nowhere close to the entirety of the budget
deficit. I'm one of those 12% of people who want to go off the fiscal cliff
and increase taxes across the board while slashing defense spending. We'd
instantly cut the annual deficit in half.
@I Choose Freedom"But there are a large number of parasites in the
moocher class that do not care about those numbers. "Oh
please... you voted for a guy who promised to give you a 20% tax cut.
You're just as bad as those you claim to be parasites.
Point 1. If you tax the wealthy, you are only taxing yourself. The money taken
from the wealthy will come back to you in higher costs in your goods and
services.Point 2. The U.S. Government is beyond ridiculous in its
size and scope. Downsize please. Defend us and make treaties, other than that,
leave it up to the individual states to govern themselves. Point 3.
How can many of those in the 1% (not all) live with themselves. In the
1950's those same people made about 4-6 times what there workers made, now
they make 200-400 times what there workers made. There is a reason Louis XVI
was hated by his people. It wasn't just about the money either. Its the
attitude, behavior, and greed- and more greed. This is coming from the point of
view of a low middle-class peasant.Point 4. Americans need to quit
blaming the wealthy. The problem is the government. While I don't like
the way greed has infested the wealthy class, take control and responsibility of
your own life. People just want free handouts. Nothing is free. Last point. See Mountainman's comment. Right on the money.
I Choose Freedom said:“But there are a large number of parasites in
the moocher class.Believe me when I say that my employees will suffer more
than I will because they will lose all of their income before I lose all of
mine. And I have a lot more in reserve than any one of them has. My
employees risked nothing. Yet every one of them makes more working for me
than they have ever made before.And you will pay a very heavy price for
your ignorance.”So kneel before me and pay omage that I might
find favor in your bidding.Spoken like a true pluracrat, what an
arrogant attitude towards to your fellowman, no less your employees. I’m glad to see your not my neighbor.
To Neanderthal:You say that Obamacare will increase taxes on the
middle class and cause budget problems. Do you have any facts or sources to back
that up??? Please don't count fox news as a source.Just
because you believe something does not make it "true".
@ Alt134 I read that Obama has changed his mind and now wants $1.5 trillion
over 10 years in tax increases. That's the number I used. But your are
correct in my line about increased income of $150.00. It should be $1500 for the
family income. But the points I am trying to make is clear.
To Satch:I disagree. All of the research I have seen says that most
rich people put the money they save from tax cuts into bank accounts (some of
them in the Caymen Islands and Switzerland) rather than pump it back into our
economy. Your information is a myth created by Fox news and the rich. :)
@atl134Salt Lake City, UT@I Choose FreedomOh please...
you voted for a guy who promised to give you a 20% tax cut. You're just as
bad as those you claim to be parasites.11:01 a.m. Dec. 6, 2012============= Agreed!Perfect!Loved it!Mitt Romeny and 20% tax cut to everybody campaign promise!Malarkey! Hahaha!Thanks atl134
JoeBlow: "I agree, taxing the Rich is not the solution. No one has ever said
that it was."Then why is it the only thing Obama has put on the
table himself and he rejects any other proposals that contain anything
else???If you think otherwise, please tell me what spending cuts he
is proposing. (I mean real cuts - as in spending less next year than this year,
not those magic, make-believe cuts that just mean spending increases less than
what was planned.)The solution requires less spending, much less.
That means smaller government and is against everything Obama stands for.
Satch I agree with you on 1-3, But the Government has a responsibility to
not let monopolies and corporate interests write the laws so that the money
stays where it is in the hands of very few. If the wealthy are writing the laws
that only benefit them, then some blame lies with them, although most blame
should be on those easily bribed politicians by the wealth to do their
bidding.Lobbyist are just a way to legally bribe our representatives
by way of their own greed to work for a few select people instead of all of us.
To all of you on here that says we can't raise taxs on the rich because it
will stop them from createing jobs and they will take there money over seas. I
say oh well, where is the jobs? Hey GOP you ran in 2010 on the platform of
jobs,jobs and more jobs still waiting on them. Now i ay lets go over the cliff
and start new next year and clean house in 2014 and a gain in 2016.
atl234: "Oh please... you voted for a guy who promised to give you a 20% tax
cut. You're just as bad as those you claim to be parasites."Spoken like a true liberal. Letting someone keep more of their own hard-earned
money makes them an equal parasite to the government.So if your wife
lets you keep $20 out of your paycheck to spend as you see fit, then you are the
same parasite to the family budget as your lazy brother-in-law who is living in
your basement while he is "between jobs" and going through his third
@ capitalist2: What counter offer has the GOP put back on the table
and what loop holes are they willing to close? Or are they like Romny and just
say trust me we will close some but we need to support the rich.
raising taxes won't do squat to lower the deficit ... but it all sounds
good to the uninformed. In 2007 when the Bush tax cuts were installed the US
government had the BIGGEST revenue year ever....something you won't here on
MSNBC. Tax cuts allow small business to expand and hire and more tax payers
equate to more tax revenue. Pretty simply economics but of course socialists
don't rely on economics... they are all emotion and here - say.
@Joecapitalist2"Spoken like a true liberal. Letting someone keep more
of their own hard-earned money makes them an equal parasite to the
government."Because we have a massive deficit. The tax cuts
would be paid for by increasing the deficit for future generations. The
great-grandkids don't care if the deficit came from too much gov't
spending or too little revenue, as far as the deficit is counted, they both
count the same way; they're both bills left behind for them to pay. If we
had a surplus instead of a deficit, I'd be totally fine with paying it back
to the people in the form of tax cuts, but that's not what we have.
BTW -- Whatever happed to Grandpa Hatch, the Senior Senator running
that all powerful Senate Finance Committee and his Constitutional Balanced
Budget Ammendment?Oh ya-Like our other Utah Sentor Mike Lee,
He won his election and quietly slinks away to hide and morphs back into
who he really is - Senator Nobody.
Reagan raised taxes. Apparenly he was a socialist/communist!
So what if 99 percent of the people voted to take something belonging to the
remaining one percent? That vote would be immoral and wrong and is entitled to
no respect at all. It means absolutely nothing if a majority favors taxing
someone else so that they can take the fruits of another man's labor. It is
merely another symptom of how far our populace has degenerated.
So, gramma b, what exactly is your solution? Shall we get rid of taxes
altogether? Does that seem like a plausible solution? There has been a tax
code for an awfully long time, and I would bet that you have reaped the rewards
of "another man's labor" in some aspect of your lifetime via
whatever governmental program you have possibly taken advantage of. If I am
incorrect, then you can put me in my place. But unless you have lived a
self-sustainable lifestyle for your entire life, then you have reaped the
rewards of another man's labor!
I reaped the rewards of my father's labor when I was a child, then my
husband's labor, until I got my sixth child in school and went to
professional school myself. Family relationships are the only relationships
which should give one person a legal claim to property belonging to another.
Since then, I have been forced to pay more in taxes than I will ever get back,
whether through social security or Medicare. I don't mind
paying my "fair share" for services that we all use, like reasonable
infrastructure and regulation and defense. I mightily resent having my income
redistributed to others who did not earn it. I especially resent being forced
to support women who, through their own choices, have been burdens on society
through their entire adult lives, and are raising a new generation of burdens on
society. The fact is, the most productive members of our society are already
paying more than their "fair share." That is why so many are now
willing to vote for bigger government. It doesn't cost them anything.
That is immoral.
I'm quite sure that if we put it to a family vote of whether or not we
should raise allowances to $1000 per week or not, my wife and I would be
outvoted by our four children.
Turn off the lights, the partys over. The lib's can't add and the
Republicans can't lead. That leaves the rest of us to clean up for our
@Church member:"You say that Obamacare will increase taxes on the
middle class and cause budget problems.Do you have any facts or sources to back
that up???"My health insurance is going up. I call it a tax...
My in-law will be billed a couple-a thousand per year in fines (SCOTUS called it
a 'tax') since he doesn't have health insurance.Does
that help?"Just because you believe something does not make it
'true.'"I believe all you have to offer.@Church member:"All of the research I have seen says that most rich
people put the money they save from tax cuts into bank accounts... rather than
pump it back into our economy."Too funny! What do you think
putting money in bank accounts do? Ans: Banks lent it to businesses which pumps
the economy.@not here:"Hey GOP you ran in 2010 on the
platform of jobs, jobs and more jobs still waiting on them."Shouldn't you be asking that to the guy who won 2010?
I listened to Limbaugh driving back from Atlanta today..... Not much I can say
about that other than I can see where a whole lot of these comments come
from.Speaking of Atlanta.... "I am a member of the evil rich
that makes more than $250k per year. Go ahead and try to tax me to death.
"Well, if you are truly part of that over 250k crowd, you are
also equally aware that you pay nothing near the nominal advertised rate. Each
year I get a nice 5 figure check back from the government because I have a good
accountant. I am sure if that your making that king of income, you too have an
accountant that is taking advantage of every tool available. For
example - I have several "income" properties that under current tax
rules, I show a 6 figure loss on. The average working class still doesn't
get that. 30% of my income is capital and long term gains - I pay no FICA or
Social Security on that income.So lets be honest here. Unless you
are a complete idiot... which I am sure you are not.... you will not be paying
35 or 38 percent tax.
@UtahBlueDevil:"Not much I can say about that other than I can see
where a whole lot of these comments come from."And it's
just as easy to see where all the Lib comments are coming from."Each year I get a nice 5 figure check back from the government because I
have a good accountant."You have an extremely poor accountant if
he's letting the government hold that much money until you file for a
refund."For example - I have several "income" properties
that under current tax rules, I show a 6 figure loss on. The average working
class still doesn't get that."Perhaps you should try to get
some properties that you can get a six figure income on."30% of
my income is capital and long term gains..."The tax on those
gains will be going up with Obama in our White House."... I pay
no FICA or Social Security on that income."And you'll get
no benefit from the SS fund when you get old and decrepit.
@southmtnman:"A fundamental principle of economics as well as business
is that you cannot cost cut your way into prosperity or out of a recession.
Period."The government is not a business. And it's goal is
not prosperity for itself. A fiscally responsible government will aim to
balance the budget annually, live within it revenues, and exercise frugality.
@Gramma B: Since when? Be more specific? Since professional school? If so,
then you corroborate my point: We've had taxes for an awfully long time!
But I don't imagine you took advantage of tax deductions for your house,
the amount of kids you had, etc. If you didn't, great! If you did, then
someone had to pay for that!Your second paragraph is just plain
contradictory. Either you don't mind paying taxes or you do. Who are
these people you think your income is being redistributed (nice buzz word) to?
Although I do think you are insinuating who these people are, so I will ask you
and everyone else a question: Should we as a society let those who are poor and
cannot work just die? Please, if we are not going to have programs to help them
out, please, please tell me what your solution is for these people?And these women you talk about, I'm certainly not sure where you are
going with that, but you know there are men most likely involved also, right?
WRZ..... actually no..... I choose not to take 100 deductions. Right now, if
I put those funds in say savings of bonds, I would get a yield of what, at best
1 or 2 percent. I have had to do battle with the IRS in the past. Trust me,
the cost of gambling I have everything in perfect balance isn't worth the
risk. Been there, done that.Then your comments on the properties,
you show you don't get how it works. I don't want to show a profit on
those properties. Don't confuse what can be listed as a loss, and what the
real net economic effect is. If I put 50k down on a property, that in 10 to 15
years translates into a 400 to 500 k asset, and I will have not had to
personally fund any of that equity growth... I prefer to take that path. WRZ, if you can have personal asset growth without having to show
income, or personally fund that growth... that is the perfect solution. Your
comments show you don't understand how the game works. The whole game is
showing personal wealth growth without showing income.
Sorry Muslim Brotherhood, but we're broke, and won't be able to give
you anymore money.That wasn't hard to say! Let's try that
with other countries, and governments.What causes a large amount of
Is it fair that half our people don't pay federal income tax, while we
increase on the ones who already pay eighty percent?Half our people
are too poor to pay income tax? Are on some form of welfare? Two thirds of our
school children are on free/reduced lunch. Fifty million people on food
stamps?This is the United States of America, and we shouldn't
be on our knees begging for entitlements. Shouldn't be demanding any group
of people to carry the load.Let's have some pride. As for me,
I'll starve before having someone pay my way.
The wealthy know how to avoid paying taxes. Foreign Bank accounts, etc.People like Nancy Pelosi, Harry Reid, Mitt Romney, Barack Obama, know how to
shelter their money.So, who are the rich ones to pay increased
taxes?Small business owners! The backbone of American employment.