Those who signed secession petitions are no more than whining, petulant children
who promise to hold their breath until they get their way. I doubt that any of
them have thought through the consequences of really trying to secede, nor do
they understand the concept of sedition. Their venting is best ignored, lest
they think anyone is paying serious attention to their rant.
Amen and amen.
"If the Civil War was waged to keep slave-holders part of the Union, surely
we should not divide our nation over a few Obama supporters."Funny statement, since it is the "fewer Romney supporters" who are
talking about leaving the union. Regarding the Civil War, it should
be noted too that the "slave-holders" were the wealthy white males who
wanted to keep the status quo, despite the moral problems with their way of life
and a changing world filled with technological change, scientific enlightenment,
and progressive thinkng. Many parallels today with how the
conservative wealthy male Romney-supporters want to keep the status quo of
Bush-era tax cuts and free-wheeling, non-regulated business dealings and a
fossil-fuel based economy in an era of a changing demographics of diversity,
advanced social media and technological living, mounting scientific evidence of
climate change, economic/military hardships associated with oil, and states
inceasingly acquiring renewable energy to power their communities and economies
(think Texas, Iowa, Colorado). I've heard some commentators
describe it that the GOP are "Mad Men" characteres living in a
"Modern Family" world.
I thought it was a few Romney supporters pushing to leave the union.
"If the Civil War was waged to keep slave-holders part of the Union, surely
we should not divide our nation over a few Obama supporters."=============I agreed with everything in the letter until I read
this one line.It was ROMNEY supporters who signed Secession
petions.And those FEW Obama supporters? Hello - that was the
MAJORITY!Nice try at spinning facts and reality.Meanwhile - Let's compare reality.Pres. Obama wants to simply
let Bush ear tax cuts lapse, and they scream bloody murder.Yet these
same conservative worship Abraham Lincoln, the ultimate Liberal.Who
without Congressional approval, and with the simple stroke of his pen signs the
"Emancipation Proclamation" and strips away people's
"property" and Frees the Slaves.It amazes me how confused,
twisted, and disconnected from reality Tea-Partiers have become.
We're just grumpy, and a little selfish right now.
"Don't boo- go vote. Vote for revenge". - President Barack Obama
"They're gonna put ya'll back in chains"- Vice President Joe
Biden. The Obama administration spent 3 years dividing citizen against
citizen with class warfare, the alleged war on women etc. They passed the ACA
that the American public was overwhelmingly opposed to without a single vote
from the opposition party- the largest piece of legislation ever passed without
support from both parties. And yet, people on the right are considered
kooks because they don't feel like they are part of this country anymore.
It's an upside down world.
Fine letter. I would add that Spielberg's wonderful Lincoln film shows the
importance of politics, of political maneuvering and at times, ever, compromise.
"Abraham Lincoln, preserved the Union by ending the Civil War."I
wish they still taught history in school. Abraham Lincoln preserved the nation
by GOING to war. When southern rebels attacked the nation, Lincoln struck back.
He didn't wave a white flag to preserve the union.Most who
"signed" an online secession petition did so as a joke. They don't
have the spine to actually secede. Its just like those people who protest
against a new Wal-Mart swearing "I'll never shop there", but are
first in line on opening day to take advantage of good prices.
You can see more and more that repubs are willing to drop our country off the
fiscal cliff in order to prevent a small tax increase on their rich puppet
masters from going through. Sad.
Eric SamuelsenProvo, UTFine letter. I would add that
Spielberg's wonderful Lincoln film shows the importance of politics, of
political maneuvering and at times, ever, compromise.10:29 a.m. Nov.
27, 2012============= Agreed!Lincoln even
selected a Democrat - from the South! to be his running mate his 2nd term in
office.Talk about compromising.Imagine, putting party politics
aside, offering that level of olive branch for peace and healing a torn
nation -- the #2 man in America -- A Democrat from the South.Oath to
the Constitution?Sworn to the citizens?Representative to whom?Today's Republicans have a signed pledge to Grover Norquist.A
non-elected, random no-body lobbyist.Lincoln must be spinning is his
Why does this always get compared to the Civil war. Do the liberals and their
ilk not realize that what the people who signed the secession petition can also
be compared to the revolutionaries who separated the US from oppression by
England?Maybe some of the leaders in the secession movement are
modern day Geroge Washingtons?You do realize that the only
difference between the south in the Civil War and 13 colonies was the simple
fact that the colonies won.
@RedShirt, if the parellels you draw from those two wars lead you to
believe the only difference was the winners, you should re-read history, as its
never that simple. You sound like you want to be part of the secession, why?
Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtDo the liberals and their ilk not
realize that what the people who signed the secession petition can also be
compared to the revolutionaries who separated the US from oppression by
England?===========Bahaha!RedShirt - you are
always good for a good 'ol laugh!Let me makes this perfectely
clear ---The signers of the Declation of Independance and the
Confederacy were not throwing a hissy fit because their guy lost an election,
and a Session letter in NOT simply signing a protest letter.They knew it they'd be HUNG for treason for what they were doing.They knew they were traitors to their nation.Is that really what
you want?Is that really how you feel?Is that really what you are?
-- a traitor?Nothing could be further from reality than having
Mitt Romney loosing and having to:paying 50% in taxes to a King to
pay for HIS foreign wars, forced to quaurter Soldiers in your private
residence, not have any Representation in Government because you are
Colonist, and not "really" a citizen.I'll remind you
yet again - Lucifer and his followers were not cast out for their plan -
but for their REBELLION.Capisce?
If we keep going in the direction we are heading as a nation, then there will
inevitably be a secession movement. Only it will probably be a quiet one without
a civil war or a declaration of independence.It will be when the top
10% decide it just isn't worth the hassle any more and quit pulling the
wagon that too many people have hopped on for a free ride. Our country has been
the greatest on Earth because millions of enterprising individuals took great
personal and financial risks to try and realize the American Dream. The driving
force behind those risks were the substantial rewards that accompanied
success.Take away all the rewards and too many people will simply
stop creating businesses, hiring new workers, and inventing lots of cool
gadgets. There will certainly be less "wealth inequality", but everyone
will just be a little poorer than now.
To "LDS Liberal" again, your lack of understanding is overwhelming.The Declation of Independance and the Confederacy were in fact
"throwing a hissy fit", as I stated before, against policies that they
did not agree with.The American citizens were in fact "paying
50% in taxes to a King to pay for HIS foreign wars" since the UK was
involved with 3 other conflicts at the same time that the US revolution was
beginning.Also, they people are not wanting to seceed because Romney
lost. They want to seceed because of Obama policies that are eroding our
freedoms and destroying the US economy.What does Lucifer losing the
war in heaven have to do with the civil war or the Revolutionary war? Also,
according to the LDS church doctrine, Lucifer was cast out because he lost the
war. Lucifer wanted to gain power for his own purposes and eliminating freedom
with the promise that he "will redeem all mankind, that one soul shall not
be lost." Sure sounds a lot like the promises of socialism.
To Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, Ut...again, your lack of
understanding is overwhelming.LDS topical guide:Satan -
As a result of this rebellion, Satan and his followers were cut off from
God’s presence.Devil - However, he rebelled in the premortal
life and persuaded a third part of the spirit children of the Father to rebel
with him (D&C 29: 36; Moses 4: 1-4; Abr. 3: 27-28). They were cast out of
heavenMoses - Wherefore, because that Satan rebelled against me...I
caused that he should be cast down; Thou art Lucifer, he who was
cast out of Father's presence for ....(here it is again) rebellion. ================= BTW - passing laws "Forcing"
people to Choose the Right always, taking away their Free Agency was prcesiely
Lucifier's plan. Why do you promote such blasphemy?I'm
Liberal because I'm Mormon, not in spite of it.
Last night I listened to Warren Buffett on Charlie Rose. I am a socialist, but
I have to point out what a breath of fresh air Buffett is. Buffett doesn't
know much about socialism, but he understands contemporary capitalism - and a
whole lot better than the crackpot wing of the GOP.
@ marxist- Warren Buffett is channelling as much of his money as he can into a
charitable foundation as fast as he can so the Government can't get
it's thieving hands on it. One of Warren Buffett's many corporations
is in an ongoing dispute with the IRS over unpaid back taxes. Warren Buffett has
never paid one thin dime to the IRS over and above what he is legally obligated
to pay. Warren Buffett is one of the many rich Democrats who don't want
anyone else to get rich. So if it's all the same to you then pardon me if I
don't treat Warren Buffett like Moses coming down from the mountaintop. I
am so tired of hearing about what Warren Buffett thinks. Who cares what he
thinks? He puts his pants on one leg at a time just like me- unlike me he just
makes millions of dollars after getting dressed and then stiffs the IRS.
Contemporary capitalism? I think you mean crony capitalism.
To "LDS Liberal" yes, he rebelled, but what was he rebelling against?
That is the issue you are dancing around.Satan was kicked out
because he wanted all the glory and he wanted to remove our agency to ensure
that all would be saved.Now, tell us, which political philosophy
gives you the opportunity to choose to help your neighbor. Does conservativism
give you the choice or does socialism give you the choice?Recently
you said that the 1942 letter from the First Presidency was moot. They stated
that "Communism and all other similar isms bear no relationship whatever to
the United Order. They are merely the clumsy counterfeits which Satan always
devises of the gospel plan." How can that be a moot point? It is quite
clear what is meant.How is is blasphemy to promote freedom over
socialism and communism?
@Redshirt1701Deep Space 9, UtTo "LDS Liberal" yes, he
rebelled, but what was he rebelling against? That is the issue you are dancing
around.Satan was kicked out because he wanted all the glory and he
wanted to remove our agency to ensure that all would be saved.============= "Rebellion" RedShirt.Plain and simple
-- you are the one dancing around to suit your agenda.LDS Liberal
gave the LDS scriptures, the LDS Topical Guide, and the LDS Temple as
reference.You lost that debate.As for Rebellion, Let that be a lesson to you....signers of a Secession petion,
modern day George Washingtons?Ha ha ha - that's a good one!
To "airnaut" sorry, but you and lds liberal are splitting hairs. The
fact is Satan rejected God's plan, started a war, lost, then was cast out.
Call it what you want, but that is how it went, and that is what I originally
stated.The point that you and LDSLiberal have avoided is this.
Which side are you now fighting for? If you are supporting communism or
socialism, the Prophets and scriptures have declared that you are supporting
Satan.Since you and your ilk claim to be so smart, tell us what is
the difference between Jefferson Davis and George Washington? Both were
fighting against a government they found oppressive. Both were fighting for
what they believed their rights to be. Both were in danger of being hung if
they were found guilty of treason. The only difference that the South lost.Again, why can't we compare the signers of a Secession petition and
the signers of the Declaration of Independance?
A marxist giving lectures about "the crackpot wing of the GOP"Thanks for the laugh of the day