Ross Douthat: The liberal gloat hides some slightly more unpleasant truths


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  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 20, 2012 11:51 a.m.

    What an excellent article. The Democrats depend on chaos in the family and in society to hold power. Republicans offer values, that if lived, would eliminate that chaos. Right now, people have chosen to live in chaos. Two States have voted to legalize "pot". Two States think that lowering the standard of human conduct is better than expecting people to rise above their appetites and passions.

    Have we sunk to that level?

    Have we abandoned "rules" of self-conduct to the extent that we would destroy our society for the right to smoke a "joint"?

    Have we abandoned the idea of "family" to the extent that we ignore the children and let the "adults" act like animals and have sex whenever and with whomever they want?

    Have we abandoned the idea that self-reliance is better than government sponsored welfare?

    There are not enough "rich guys" to pay for the depravity of those who have "quit".

    This nation was not built by "quitters"; it was built by those who controlled their appetites and passions. Obama won the election by telling us that we're all losers and that we need his "handouts" to survive.

    Is he right?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 12:22 p.m.

    The article - while insightful - was one-sided enough.

    The Deseret News commentary preceeding it was about as one-sidely FoxNews'd biased as propoganda style media could possible ever become.

    Can anyone say - Tabloid journalism?

    Mike Richards and ilk --
    I know it's not in the "Conastituition"
    but try doing us all a favor and try reading Abraham Lincoln's Gettysburg address.

    Even though we all know he was a "Liberal", he was still our 1st Republican President.
    [FYI - It may surprise you, his picked a Democrat as his Vice President for his 2nd term, talk about "compromising" for the sake of healing our nation.]

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Nov. 20, 2012 12:46 p.m.

    LDS Liberal,

    Don't tell us that Lincoln shared your views. Don't try to tell us that he told Americans to stand in line to receive their "government handouts". Don't try to tell us that he told us to give up freedom for "security".

    The "facts" are easily found. He staked all that he had on FREEDOM. He believed in the dignity of people being free to forge their own destiny. He believed that the slaves had the right to work out their destiny. He didn't offer them a welfare check. He didn't tell them to look to him for their food, their clothing and their housing. He set them free to WORK out their destiny.

    You would have us believe that we are all pawns of the State; that we are all incapable of doing anything without Washington making that "anything" possible. That is wrong. That is not what America stands for. America is the land of the FREE and the home of the BRAVE. We are FREE to pursue our dreams without Washington dictating to use what those dreams should be and without Obama sticking his hand in our wallets to fund HIS dream.

  • Hutterite American Fork, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    I don't think there's much gloat out there. The president prevailed in the election. Now we have some work to do. Anger and vitriol about it isn't helping.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 3:11 p.m.

    It is exactly this kind of article that is dividing the nation. How about trying to work together?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 3:13 p.m.

    Mike Richards
    South Jordan, Utah
    LDS Liberal,

    Don't tell us that Lincoln shared your views.


    OK I won't.
    I'll just present the facts ---

    All men are created equal (Liberal)
    Federal Government trumps OVER State Government (Liberal)
    Human Dignity OVER Business, Corporate, or Plantation Profits (Liberal)
    Saving the Union (Liberal) – Note: Conservative are signing Session petitions as we speak.
    RE-Construction of the South was the Biggest Federal Aid Program in American History (Liberal).

    You are right, we are Free. And you are FREE to go live in a cabin in the wilderness and live off the land, live, die, and not pay ANY taxes – imagine that.
    The rest of live in a modern, highly complex Society, and we trade money in the form of taxes for modern conveniences we can not afford individually (water, roads, sanitation, police, fire, education, Military, Internet, and now Healthcare, ect.)

    I forgot to mention – Pres. Lincoln’s Vice President was not only a DEMOCRAT, but a Southern Democrat at that…talk about compromising. Please, read the Gettysburg Address, and try to get along with other AMERICANS who are not just like you.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 3:57 p.m.

    Lincoln abolished slavery. LDS Liberal seems to have forgotten that concept. No name can be required to pay another man's debts. No name can have his property seized to pay another man's debts. No name is obligated in any way to pay for the expenses that another man has incurred.

    No man can be forced to redistribute his wealth for the benefit of another. Some people don't understand that simple concept. They think that they can pick the pockets of anyone at any time to satisfy their own greed and to pay their own bills. That is not an American principle.

    Mr. Obama doesn't understand that principle.

    Those who match in lock-step with Mr. Obama don't understand that principle.

    The Gettysburg address was not addressed to "freeloaders" who plundered the treasury. The Gettysburg address recognised the total sacrifice of those who died to secure the blessings of liberty and of freedom from government intervention in their lives.

    Yes, this is a complex world, but that does not mean that you or anyone else has the right to stick your fingers in my pocket and take my wallet without my permission. Stealing is still stealing.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 4:12 p.m.

    "It’s not a coincidence that the economic era that many liberals pine for — the great, egalitarian post-World War II boom — was an era that social conservatives remember fondly as well: a time of leaping church attendance, rising marriage rates and birthrates, and widespread civic renewal and engagement."

    It was also a time of strong unions when the wages of single workman could buy a house and support a family. It was a time of 91% top marginal tax rates. It was a time when corporate taxes brought in a four times higher share of revenue than they do now. The rich were doing fine, but they didn't own the entire country, and even the rich understood that a prosperous working class was essential to a stable society.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 4:52 p.m.

    J Thompson
    Lincoln abolished slavery. LDS Liberal seems to have forgotten that concept.

    3:57 p.m. Nov. 20, 2012


    No I did not forget it - in fact, it was the very 1st one.

    "All men are created equal (Liberal)"

    Meaning - No man can "own" another -
    no matter how much rich or wealthy he may be.

    To add even more gas to your already stioked fire --
    Imagine --

    The President of these United States,
    signing an executive order entitled the "Emancipation Proclamation" --
    and with the stroke of his pen,
    stripping away the "ownership" of someone's "property" and not even compensating him for it?

    Talk about the ULTIMATE Liberal evil sin - and Pres. Abraham (bless his Liberal soul) Lincoln did it.

    You see J Thompson, until you drop your blinders, open your mind and really learn AND understand facts and history and only see things the way you WANT to see them, you will remain blind.

    I can't help you with that.
    It is something you will need to do on your own.

    Try having a little more contrite spirit, it should help.
    I know it did for me.

  • the truth Holladay, UT
    Nov. 20, 2012 6:54 p.m.

    LDS Liberal claims to be LDS, yet fails to understand a prime principle of the Gospel.

    that principle being Agency, personal choice.

    I believe that was what the war in the pre-existance was all about.

    DO we do based on our individual free will to choose,

    or do we have a greater power compel us?

    Liberals desire we have a greater power (the state) compel charity, compel equality, compel fairness, compel righteousness, or at-least to how liberals define those things.

    Conservatives believe all men should be free, and have their Agency to succeed or fail, free to pursue their happiness.

    Equality, fairness are funny words, you must define what you mean by equal or fair. Men are NOT equal in all ways. Life is not fair.

    NO state has succeeded in creating those things. In attempting to do so they must introduce unfairness and inequality. They must tear others down, punish those who succeed more than others, strip away freedoms and property from others for even a semblance of equality and fairness.

    God knows we're not equal and life isn't fair, but Zion is created only by free will, Agency to do good.

    What good gloat?

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 8:16 a.m.

    LDS Liberal won.
    Time to realize the country isn't as conservative as the tea party. There is still time for the cons to be on the right side of history. It's been a while, but they can do it.

  • iron&clay RIVERTON, UT
    Nov. 21, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    Any one else notice how gaunt the President is looking.
    It was really noticeable in the third debate.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Re: "Time to realize the country isn't as conservative as the tea party."

    It's also WAY past time Democrats realized that the country isn't as "progressive" or socialist as the Democrat Party.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Nov. 26, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    the truth
    Holladay, UT
    LDS Liberal claims to be LDS, yet fails to understand a prime principle of the Gospel.

    that principle being Agency, personal choice.

    I believe that was what the war in the pre-existance was all about.


    So -
    Why do you force a victim of rape to bear a child?
    Why do seek to ban books, movies, alcohol, and other "vices" YOU don't deem righteous?
    Why do you seek laws that ban certain individuals who are just like you?
    Why do you contantly FORCE people to do the right?
    [Wasn't the precisely Lucifer's plan - Forced righeotusness, so that NONE of them will be lost?]

    And as for the election - Who wants to secede from the Union when they didn't get their way?
    FYI - Lucifer and his followers were cast of for REBELLION, not for their plan.

    You might want to reconsider where you stand on the issues....

  • Hemlock Salt Lake City, UT
    Dec. 17, 2012 12:09 p.m.

    Following Bush's election there were many liberals who threatened to immigrate to Canada so stop bringing up the silliness of a small segment that mouth off about succession. It was a protest statement, not a plan. Compromise means that both sides come to the center, not just one. So far, neither side understands that. Taxing the rich is a political statement, not a comprehensive economic strategy. The country rejected a Harvard School of Business approach and voted for the Keynesian approach. Lord Alfred Keynes noted that money is politics.