State's Evidence Exhibit A: "Why Unions have Lost All Value in the
American Marketplace." Nice work, Teamsters; you've destroyed an
I wonder who will pick up or buy their recepi becasue some company don't
taste the same flavor like Hostes. :-(
Nice going Obama which not just the Unions
actually, PGVIkingDad, the teamsters agreed to their contract, it was the other
unions still out on strike that sunk the company. But your point is still
valid, unions have destroyed the company.welcome to the new norm
under BO, 8% uneployment (or thereabouts) is the best we'll do
I do not think the unions caused all the problems. We do not know all the
facts. The unions are receiving all the bad press. Other causes could be:
Products do not sell because they are perceived by the public as being
unhealthy. Miss-management at the corporate level. Perhaps the company would
still have to close if the unions caved. We can not know from where we sit in
our homes. It does seem that the unions have caused it, but who knows???? It
is hard for me to believe that a union would be the major reason a company as
large as Hostess would close the doors. There must be bigger issues. The unions
are just being used as the scapegoats!! I am not defending the unions. I just
do not have enough facts to correctly judge!!
@Well Read: I think you summed it up well. We don't have all the facts.
Hostess was in bankruptcy twice. It's doubtful it was all the unions'
fault for wanting decent pay and working conditions for the people working
there. But again, we don't have all the facts.
The Union wins again! You reap what you sow.This is an example of where the
Obama administration is taking this Country.
Do some research before jumping to any conclusions. There is an excellent
article in Fortune, but DN won't allow links to be posted here so
you'll need to Google Fortune Hostess Bankruptcy to find it.Hostess was in bankruptcy once before and was taken up by a set of Equity
Companies and Hedge Funds similar to Bain Capitol.Here's an
excerpt from the article: "The dramatis personae are impressive: the
Teamsters; two large hedge funds, Silver Point Capital and Monarch Alternative
Capital; and the private-equity firm Ripplewood Holdings."This
may be just as much about attempts to bust unions and destroy long-standing
pension plans as it about making profits for investors. It's much, much
more complex than simply blaming one side or the other.But it is
something all Americans should be concerned about -- because Hostess-like
stories are playing out all over America. Your job or your retirement could be
next in line. Research before you comment or draw any conclusions.
Doing that and learning the full truth will help us all.
Blaming unions is lazy and a cop-out. Bad management is what drove Hostess into
the ground. So much for "personal responsibility."
With any business it is not about "decent pay" or "living
wages". It is about a worker adding more value to the company that they
receive in wages and benefits.If I own a business and every worker
adds $1.50 in value for every $1 they cost me, then I want thousands of them. If
every worker only adds $.90 for every $1 they cost, then I want zero of them.As a worker, if I want a company to pay me $25,000, $100,000, or
$1,000,000 a year then I need to find a way to contribute at least 120% of that
to the company's value. Otherwise, why would they pay me?
My guess, seeing that it is owned by venture/vulture capitalists, is that the
owners think they can make a handsome price piece parting the company out. Just
like many used cars are worth more in parts than whole, same with many large
companies. No owner with an iconic brand(s) is just going to just close and
lose everything. I am sure they had a plan all along on how they would sell it
off, if things didn't go their way, and make out just fine. Too bad for
the former workers. The Koch brothers must be smiling.
I'm a Hostess worker. Upper management, the Teamsters, and Obama policies
all played a role in this. Regulations, gas prices, etc increased costs,
teamsters refused to negotiate different delivery methods, upper management gave
itself million dollar bonuses and 300%^ raises, and the BCTGM members, who make
the products, were asked to work below the poverty level to support all of
these. I believe some upper management thought they could get away with what
they were doing and hoped Obama would bail them out like he did GM. I think the
BCTGM just wanted to bring attention to what was going on and to close the
bakeries that way instead of having everything taken from them first. It was
far more than 8%. And we make far more than twinkies. IF they really shut down
it will affect all of you. I'll post more later.
Once again, when a company is unable to manage itself and stay in business it is
the fault of the Unions, or the President, or the lowest paid employees, or the
storm on Saturn...but when a company is doing good, why - the highly
paid management is solely responsible for that!
Great!This couldn't have come at a worse time -- Colorado
and Washington just passed marijuana laws.
Re:LDS LiberalNow that was funny!
Here is part of an article from the Wall Street Journal:"BY
RACHEL FEINTZEIGCreditors of Hostess Brands Inc. said in court
papers the company may have "manipulated" its executives' salaries
higher in the months leading up to its Chapter 11 filing, in what the creditors
called a possible effort by Hostess to "sidestep" Bankruptcy Code
compensation provisions.The committee representing Hostess's
unsecured creditors alleges that information it has gathered suggests "the
possibility" that the company converted a chunk of its top executives'
pay from performance-based bonuses to salary, "at least in part to
sidestep" rules designed to ensure that companies in bankruptcy aren't
enticing their employees to stay on board with the promise ..."Yup. America's JOB CREATORS are hard at work, aren't they?
@BSU: Can you please delineate how Obama caused this? Because I can't
find that evidence from the post you wrote. BTW, oil is at $85 a barrel, yet
gas is still high. How, exactly, can/does Obama control that?
KJB1No matter what the conservative view point is, you dive to the
opposite side of the road.I then saw you live in Eugene. I have a
question. If you live in Eugene, why would you join a comment group in Utah?
Unless your Mormon?Just curious I guess
Another case of the parasites killing the host or hostess. My
daughter works for a manufacturing company in Colorado. HR and management have
been discussin how to cope with the Obamacare, it entailed cutting hours and
laying off personnel.The plant manager was called to Japan this week
to meet with the owners. My guess...it is no longer economically feasible to
operate in the US. Welcome to the brave new socialist world. Capital is patient and money is fungible. The wealthy, the brilliant, the
creative, the productive are not going to stay around and be milked like aphids.
The useless eaters will be squawling and mewling, no one will hear them.
Dollar collapse coming after they raid the 401ks to fund worthless treasuries.
Country going down, it is just a matter of time.
And so we see that the old 30-year retirement package really is a thing of the
past because today's economy just won't support it. So hang on,
strikers, and now you can all go collect unemployment, where society will
support you for 6 months or so. That wouldn't be so bad if there were
another job you could find, but I haven't read any classifieds advertising
for "Twinkie Makers Needed" lately. Have you?
To "Well Read" the unions didn't cause all of the problems that
Hostess had, but they did push it over the edge and killed it.As the
article pointed out, the bigger Teamsters union hired an independant person to
look at the financials of Hostess. They found that they were in trouble. At
least the Teamsters realized that a strike would kill the company. Then, the
smaller unions decided that they were going to strike, which shut down
production, which was the final push needed to kill the company.In
the end, it was the Unions, not management that killed Hostess.
@Leopard"Another case of the parasites killing the host or hostess.
"So workers are parasites? No wonder your candidate lost. "My daughter works for a manufacturing company in Colorado."I guess she's a parasite too under your definition.
Yes atl134, you are considered a parasite if you are biting the hand that feeds
you. All of those workers who would rather strike and unionize instead of trying
to benefit their company deserve to lose their jobs, I don't feel one bit
bad for them. It is too bad however, that so many other employees have to suffer
the consequences of others actions. How greedy can you get at a time like this
when having a job is an anomaly?
Gee, imagine that, companies go out of business in a free market. Hostess went out of business for one reason, and only one reason: they made a
product that was not selling, and management did not react effectively. But don't worry, there are plenty of other bakeries that are
filling the need.
I love seeing all the pro union bakers running to defend what unions do.And insist that it's always someone else's fault.I'm sure
huge pensions, high hourly pay and millions of union dues have nothing to do
with the demise of any unionized company.More Kool aid please!
AZ Rods, can you please tell us what the wages, and pensions were for the bakers
at Hostess? You should be able to tell us right off the top of your head, right?
Because you are insisting they were "huge" and "high". So please
The Christian Science Monitor is reporting another reason Hostess is having to
liquidate in addition to Union demands is the special interest power of the
sugar industry that has protected a few Florida sugar producing families and has
force a number of other candy companies to move out of the United States in
order to purchase sugar a dramatically lower prices on the global market.
Beginning in 1934, Congress passed restrictive tariffs for imported sugar forces
companies that rely on sugar in their manufacturing process to pay much more
than foreign countries a this ingredient. So if conservative are going to
complain about unions, they can also complain about tax-payer supported, sugar
tariffs that keep sugar prices in the United State artificially high. One
report suggests that for every one sugar job served, three manufacturing jobs
using sugar are lost.
Sounds like a bunch of Ding Dongs running the company and an even bigger bunch
of Ding Dong Unions putting in the final stake. Putting the blame on
one entitiy is not possible. But one thing for sure the company not only made
Ding Dongs but had them representing them, running them and working there.
tabunoClearfield, UT"So if conservative are going to complain
about unions, they can also complain about tax-payer supported, sugar tariffs
that keep sugar prices in the United State artificially high."Believe me, we do. Thanks for pointing that out.
We may see more of this happening with the ObamaCare coming into being and
Unions who have yet to learn that their 'great hero' is ringing the
death knell on many businesses that cannot meet the demands the Unions have won
in the past, with this additional load. Obama has added the 'straw that
has broken the camel's back". Welcome to Obamaville".
Unfortunate, but if consumers aren't buying Hostess products, then it is
better they liquidate than get subsidized by tax payers. Bankrupcy court has a
way of cleaning out the obsolete to make way for the improvements. After all
that is said about this, atleast the customer is still king, as it should be.
Bad news about so many out of work right before the holidays. Too
bad we don't have a lot of businesses starting up to provide new and better
paying jobs for them. I think the USA has a perspective problem at the moment.
Too many people think the only thing we can do is more fairly distribute a
shrinking economy. That we are inevitably going to decline. That our future is
Europe's present. That we can't compete globally because of our high
wages, high taxes, and greedy management. Growth comes from
exploring the uncharted, which takes guts. Pioneer, cowboy, astronaut guts.
Hard work, try until you don't fail, persistance. Growth comes when
industriousness and ambition replaces toys and entertainment. When risk taking
replaces what's in it for me.
Now Woody Harrelson is not the only one in search of the last few Twinkees.
Zombieland my friends!
"We may see more of this happening with the ObamaCare coming into being . .
. "CB, can you explain to us what "Obamacare" had to do
with the failure of Hostess? After all, their employees were already provided
with health insurance. So can you tell us what effect something that Hostess did
not even have to deal with had on their going out of business?
Every employer will have additional expenses with the new health care. Every
business that is now considering laying off workers or giving them less hours
per week because of the additional health care costs that are coming. Just who
is going to pay for those 3 Million + that are being added to the health
care list. You are, as well as for all the additional workers to deal with the
implementation of ObamaCare. You will soon learn that the promise that nothing
is going to change is another empty promise that has been made to keep this man
in the Presidency.Been to the Post Office lately? Well welcome to the new
Health Care world.
"Every employer will have additional expenses with the new health care.
Every business that is now considering laying off workers or giving them less
hours per week because of the additional health care costs that are coming.
"Well that sure isn't true. Care to try again? With facts
this time, not just what you heard some place.
Do the fired workers get Twinkies for life or at least as long as they last? Oh,
right. That is for life.
I'm sure there are 'shovel ready government jobs' waiting for the
18000 laid of union Ho-ho makers....or not! Get used to it folks because
'layoff' is an ugly term you will see on a regular basis going
forward. Just remember - you had the chance to stop this and you chose not to so
you had better hope Barack has alot more jobs in his stash than the last
go-round. Be comforted in knowing - as always - it could be worse.