Has the Deseret News raised the price of its subscriptions in the last 12 years?
Does anyone thinks for one second that this raise was such a secret until 2 days
AFTER the election wasn't a move to keep McAdmas viable? If Peter Morron
had announced this before the election, McAdmas would have lost by a landslide.
Blue brings up an excellent point. What business out there has been able to
hold its prices level for 12 years, in the face of steadily increasing "cost
of goods (or services) sold", and remain viable?Well, Salt Lake
County is in the business of providing local government services such as public
safety, libraries, parks & rec, Meals-on-Wheels, flood control management,
exposition & convention facilities, community health services, etc. on a
not-for-profit basis (these services generally could not be provided profitably
by the private sector).The County has provided these services
admirably (in my opinion) since 2001 without a general property tax increase
(the "price" of providing these services), and has increasingly had to
"cannibalize" itself to do so, due to general inflation. A little
"self-cannibalization" is not necessarily a bad thing, as it leads to
greater efficiencies, but too much is like seeking better health and fitness
through anorexia.Also, the statement from the article, "In
addition, the 140,000 new residents have provided the county with greater tax
revenues" is not entirely true. The County has lost "new growth"
tax revenue to RDAs, State-assessed properties (Kennecott), and declines in
personal property values.
Corroon's proposed tax hike should not be a surprise to anyone. He has
been talking about the need for it for years and wanted to do it in
increments.If you were surprised by this, you weren't paying
attention.If you object to this, start making a list of what county
services you are willing to do without - keeping in mind that if you expect your
city or state government to pick up the slack, they are going to need more money
Contrary to the the recommendations of this piece, word is that the
Republican-led County Council is actually discussing a larger tax hike than the
one proposed by the Mayor.
Property tax rates may not have gone up, but property assessments have escalated
wildly in the face of falling property values. The result is that property taxes
have gone up. The government must use the same sharp pencil in budget matters
that is used in business and citizens must accept that there is still no free
Owl,You just repeated a misconception that seems to pervade
discussions about property taxes; namely, that changes in property values
somehow cause property taxes to go up generally. When property values go up on
average (generally the case, but not recently), property tax rates go down,
yielding the same amount of property tax revenue as the prior year, plus (in
theory) new growth. When property values go down on average, property tax rates
go up, again yielding the same amount of property tax revenue as the prior year,
plus (again, in theory) new growth.If an individual's property
value goes up more, or down less, than the Countywide average, then their
property tax will increase slightly over the prior year; and vice versa.No amount of "pencil sharpening" on the County's part would
ever be enough to offset the eroded value of property tax revenues due to
inflation over time.
I don't think most people here understand how property taxes work for
buildings, since that is the tax going up.If you bothered to read
your property tax assesment for the year, youfind that what you pay in taxes is
proportional to the assessed value of your building (home or business).For example, if you currently pay 1% of the assessed value of your $200,000
home, they will get $2000. However next year if your home value goes up to
$220,000, they will collect $2200. The county will collect more taxes as the
value of your home increases. What has happened is that home values
have tanked, and the county wants to keep spending money on non-essential things
like parks and trails. If they would cut the non-essential spending, they may
not have to increase taxes so much.
No, RedShirt; you're the one who doesn't get how property taxes work.
You need to re-read my previous post (focusing on comprehension might help).Property tax ISN'T like sales tax, where the same tax rate applies
year after year, and the tax goes up when the value (or price, in the case of
sales tax) goes up.From the Utah State Tax Commission website,
property tax section, Truth in Taxation page:"Statutes require that
each year a certified tax rate be calculated. The certified tax rate is the rate
which will provide the same amount of property tax revenue as was charged in the
previous year excluding the revenue generated by new growth."So,
simply stated: Property value goes up = property tax rate goes down = same
property tax paid (+/- variance from average value change) Property value
goes down = property tax rate goes up = same property tax paid (+/- variance
from average value change)Nobody believes this, though, because
everybody's yearly property value change varies from the countywide average
value change, meaning that the amount of property tax owed to a taxing entity
(like Salt Lake County) varies from year to year.
To "SG in SLC" again, you are wrong. See the DN article "Davis
school board approves 9.3 percent tax increase" they somewhat explain how
the tax rate is proportional to the home value. If that isn't enough of an
explaination, go to the Utah constitution. In Article XIII, Section 2, it
requires "All tangible property in the State, not exempt under the laws of
the United States, or under this Constitution, shall be taxed at a uniform and
equal rate in proportion to its value, to be ascertained as provided by
law."Did you notice the phrase "proportion to its
value"? That means that per the Utah constitution your property taxes can
change from year to year based only on the market value of your home.Do you even look at your property tax notices? They are very easy to read,
and indicate that it is a proportional tax based on the value of the home, not
the desired tax revenue.
I've worked in city or county government finance for the past 15+ years,
extensively involved in the property tax rate-setting process, so I know what I
am talking about."In proportion to its value" (ad valorem)
means that a "rate" is uniformly applied to the taxable value of all
taxable properties within a taxing entity's boundaries to determine each
property's tax owed. This is in contrast to the age-based "fee in lieu
of tax" currently levied on vehicles.However, it doesn't
say ANYTHING about the "proportional" rate staying constant from year to
year, or about whether changes in the rate can vary inversely with changes in
property values (they do).In your previous example, if the home
value goes up to $220,000, (assuming the countywide average value increase was
also 10%) the countywide tax rate would go down to 0.909091%, yielding the same
$2000 property tax from that home.And yes, I've looked at my
tax notice. I would suggest looking at the taxable value, the rate for an
entity that hasn't raised taxes, and the resulting tax levied from 3-4
years of YOUR tax notices. It might be illuminating.
Property tax: if someone has a smaller, and very modest, income this year they
shouldn't be asked to pay more property tax than they did last year, as
they likely can't afford it. By submitting your previous year's tax
form to a county, if it is less than an amount determined by county government,
you may have your cureent year's property tax reduced in many cases but
this remission seems to me likely to be insufficient and belated. Government needs to spend less in a recession than when times are better; the
people are struggling and the counties, like the pharisees excoriated by Jesus
in the New Testament, tend to lay burdens on men's shoulders that are
grievous to be borne, yet, too often, they will not lift a little finger to help
them bear that burden. Salt Lake County apparently sees 140,000 new
residents as a liability instead of as a larger tax base. Are these all illegal
residents, paying little tax? Possibly. Are they going to clamp down on illegal
immigration? That would be a novelty! County governments too often
appear to have little or no principles, or good ideas.
Is an alternative available in a county sales tax? Losing the services
provided, even the 'non-essential' services, which apparently the
voters felt were essential enough, would have an effect on the region.
@sg in slc. Reading your post makes sense but my taxes have gone up as the value
of my home has gone up. So how is it possible for the county to take in the same
revenue but I pay more? Is it because someone else is paying less because their
home value went down and in the end it's neutral for the county but not for
My home value has gone down the last few years, my taxes have gone up. My home
was valued $3000.00 less this year and my taxes went up. Largely due to the law
enforcement fee.I have a suggestion. Privatize the golf courses,
privatize the Taj Mahal recreation centers. The county shouldn't be in the
exercise business. If the citys that they are in want to buy them and operate
them, fine. The county should get out of the gym business. If I want to
exercise, I'll buy a membership at Golds Gym. I get assessed a tax for the
Oquirrh Park fitness center, due to the special service district. I also have
to pay a yearly entry fee. I'm also getting taxed to pay for the other
facilites that are not in Kearns. Double or triple taxation.
What's wrong with raising taxes in order to pay for necessary programs,
structures, and services?Don't like it?Move
away.Here in Utah we act as if we're completely overtaxed.
Please move to another state and your eyes will soon be opened.
Please double my property taxes and give my kids a public school worth
attending. I wouldn't send a dog to a Utah public school (and I don't
even like dogs).