Amen. I hear this discussion often, but even when there are great candidates in
minority parties, such as Jim Matheson and Peter Cooke, they're hesitant to
put a vote behind the words. It would be interesting to learn why.
Jim Matheson has had twelve years to convince Utahns that he represents their
principles and their ideals. He could have stayed in the 2nd district, but HE
chose the 4th district. No one forced him to change districts. Now he's
seeing that people really don't want to be represented by someone whose
loyalty is to Nancy Pelosi.Ask a few of the voters in the old 2nd
district how they felt about a Representative who did not represent their values
and didn't listen to their ideas. They are outraged that Matheson voted
with Pelosi instead of representing them.The caucus system is the
most pure form of a Republic. America is a Republic. The people choose
representatives AT ALL LEVELS to represent them and their ideas. The Caucus is
where it all begins. We choose delegates to represent us at the nominating
convention. That keeps us from reverting to an 8th grade popularity contest
where the candidate with the deepest pockets "buys" popularity.Everyone has the right to disagree with how things are run, but the facts show
that our system is imaged after the principles of a Republic.
@ Mike RichardsDo you live in hthe 2nd like I do? The 2nd is the
most liberal in Utah where roughly 5 of every 8 votes went to the GOP
Presidential candidate in 2000, 04, & 08.I have no problem w/
Matheson. He should keep his constituents in mind & yet stay true to
himself. It does fall on the voters to replace him if they don't like his
track record. **That keeps us from reverting to an 8th grade
popularity contest where the candidate with the deepest pockets "buys"
popularity.**Please. Have you been asleep since McCain-Feingold
& Citizens United took effect? The US at one point may have been a
Constitutional Republic but has devolved in a Corporate Plutocracy w/ shades of
@Mike Richards;Your "values" are not the only Utah
"values".Speak for yourself.
Curt,the idea that someone is disenfranchised because their candidate did
not win is ludicrous. I guess that means I have been disenfranchised the last 4
years because BO currently infests the WH.But you are correct that
the caucus system is a bad way to go.Hank,and BO is going
right along with the corporate plutocracy of which you speak with his solyndra
and other examples of crony capitalism.RanchHand,No,
Mike's values are not the only Utah values, but elections consistently show
they are the predominant Utah values. So polls show he speaks for MANY more
than just himself.
At least with a one party system, we know who to blame when our taxes go up
every year -- Republicans.
What a breath of fresh air this letter is. Are there others like you in Utah?
Excellent letter. But it's probably a wasted effort.THINKING
is not a Utah value.
Republicans and Democrats are two sides of the same coin. As far as I'm
concerned, it doesn't matter that much which side you vote for (or
How about we have a NO party system. There is a lot more disenfranchised voters
in Utah besides democrats. Candidate from the workers, renters, bus
riders, bicycle people, parents, grandparents and many others never get to run
for election because of the cost factor that guarantees that only the rich or
business people can mount a campaign. Stop campaigns. Let any
person post a resume for election to an office. Just like someone applying for
a job. Eliminate voting districts, run all state and federal
elections on a state wide basis.
Why doesn't Mr Richards substantiate in his eloquent style, what Utah
values are? Is it the one that has put money in politics before the well being
of it's citizens? Is it the act of selling away our environment to the
highest bidder? Is it becoming one of the worst at citizen participation? Is it
the absence of the 4th estate at calling out legislation that is copied directly
out of the ALEC playbook. Is it cowtowing to the Eagle Forum? No, I reject this
premise. I reject the comments about Matheson. He is not a liberal in any shape
or form. He voted against Ms Pelosi as Speaker. This is what I mean by lack of
the Utah values I grew up with. Values that were kept in check by the citizens
of the State. When 1 in 3 vote, calling us a democracy is a stretch. Why is 1 in
3 voting? It's because Utah Democrats have joined the Reppublican party as
Sadly -- Many are completely satisfied with a North Korean, Cuban,
Communist China, Syrian, Nazi Germany ONE Party System.Like the
Frankenstein Monster, The intention was good, but in the end, the
consequnces are Horrifying!
Re: one old man Ogden, UT"THINKING is not a Utah value."To suggest that decent Utah voters who vote according to the dictates of their
conscience are mindless robots who don't put any thought into who will best
represent them is a condescending attempt to portray a supposed superiority of
thought. Not even decent Democrats will buy into that line of reasoning.We just don't buy into the concept that government is the know all
solution to our problems.
Ah, Rifle, you prove my point almost daily here. Aren't the one who a few
days ago listed a "count" of executive orders that was so far off
accuracy that it was simply outrageous?Thus I repeat, "THINKING
is not a Utah value."I just don't buy into the concept that
a plutocrat is the know all solution to our problems.
Rifleman,don't mind the old man. Repeating his insulting comment
substantiates that he is oblivious to the bigotry or the hypocrisy of the left.
If he were not blind to it, he would recognize what plutocrats BO, reid, and
peliso are, and how BO's crony capitalism feeds a liberal plutocracy. See,
he doesn't mind plutocrats, just conservative plutocrats. Anything's
fine as long as it's liberal. I wonder how often he chants, "four legs
good, two legs better"?
Re: lost in DC West Jordan, UTYes, you are correct. When it comes
to thinking apparently only one of the two presidential debaters last night can
be accused of committing that act. It is suspected that the other fellow took
valium when what he really needed was a Pepsi.
@mike richardsif you asked a "few" of the old second district that
agreed with yu then you would be right but since as you point out he has been
voted into office for twelve years by the majority of the old second district he
obviously did represent them. He could have stayed in the second district but it
really would not make any difference since that district along with all the
others was chopped up by republican congressmen to insure that anyone that does
not march lock step with the most extreme parts of the Utah GOP that have taken
over the primary system do not get representation which was the point of the
"THINKING is not a Utah value."I THINK that sounds a lot like
condescension So why should I care about the mumbling of a bitter old
To the libs out there. Repeating a lie does not make it true. You claim that
Utah is a single party state. Lets look at some facts.Currently
there are 22 state senate Republicans and 7 state senate Democrats. In the
House of representatives there are 58 Republicans and 17 Democrats. If Utah is
a single party state, why are there Democrats in the Legislature?Now, since you don't like it because they don't reflect you liberal
ideals, lets take a look at what their conservative leaning actions have
done:"Utah ranks number one in well-being index" - DN"Utah ranks as top pro-business state, report says" DN"Utah ranks 4th for child well-being" - DN"Personal
Income Has Grown More in Conservative States Than Liberal" -The Blaze. Utah
ranks #4 in increase"Report: Utah's economic outlook
improving" - DN"Utah tops national economic report" -
DN"Forbes Magazine ranks Utah 'the best state for
business'" - DN"In our opinion: Utah's budget
success" –DN“Utahns top nation in voluntarism;
contributions of Utah volunteers valued at nearly $4 billion” -DN
Why did Matheson abandon the people in the 2nd district? Why did he abandon
those citizens who stood with him as he voted with Pelosi? Did he think that the
people of the 4th district couldn't read? Did he think that nobody in the
4th district could check his record? Did he burn so many bridges in tbe 2nd
district that he knew that Utah citizens would send him packing in the 2nd
district? Where does he live? Why didn't he want his neighbors to vote?
Matheson tried to "cherry pick" a district. He tries to
"game" there system. Mia Love has shown that Matheson was foolish.
After this year's totally shameful and disgraceful DNC, I will never again
vote for a Democrat, ever. As an LDS Christian, I was totally and completely
offended by the utter contempt shown towards my God and His holy place of birth
by what was clearly a majority of those present. This was not some radical
left-wing gathering of the fringe; this was the DNC! As mainstream and official
as you can get for the Democratic Party. Whatever faults the Republican Party
may have, I will from this day forth vote for a Republican every time before I
vote Democrat. I will gladly wait for something better than the very imperfect
Republicanism, but rest assured I will never, ever vote for a Democrat again.
counter -- Perhaps I should have said "critical thinking."
@ lost in DC"Hank,and BO is going right along with the
corporate plutocracy of which you speak with his solyndra and other examples of
crony capitalism."Yes. He is. Its all part of the plan when you
vote for an Ivy Leaguer.@ Mike Richards 2:48 p.m. Oct. 4, 2012Sayeth the expect when it comes to cherry picking facts.
@Mike Richards"Why did Matheson abandon the people in the 2nd
district?"This isn't true, and you know it. Jim Matheson
didn't abandon the people in the 2nd district, the State Legislature
gerrymandered away a significant chunk of the 2nd district, so that it bears
little resemblance to the historical 2nd district."Why did he
abandon those citizens who stood with him as he voted with Pelosi?"Truth is, Matheson doesn't vote with Pelosi all that often, and Chaffetz
& Bishop occasionally vote with Pelosi, too. As a "Blue Dog",
Matheson is one of the most conservative Democrats in Congress."Matheson tried to 'cherry pick' a district."No, Utah
Republicans tried to make Matheson unelectable through gerrymandering, and he is
just not rolling over to their unethical practice.
@killpack, the DNC doesn't speak for Utah Democrats, most of whom believe
in God and consider Israel an important ally.And Jesus was born in
Bethlehem, in Roman-occupied Palestine.
We individually believe how we do because of the experiences we have and how we
were raised. I appreciate the diversity that each one of us contributes, because
if we were all the same things would not be very interesting. I appreciate the
debate that comes from the various parties because I believe it makes the
country stronger. Debate is what built this country; from the documentation
I've read, the founding fathers had extremely heated and spirited debates
about what needed to be included in the constitution. None of them got
everything they wanted, but they all got something they agreed to and upheld. As
we debate what the USA needs to move forward, it seems like it would be helpful
to keep focused on the issues, even as we all argue with one another. Instead of
lobbying personal attacks at any side, maybe we could try lobbying some
well-thought-out solutions along with some respect. Nobody has all the power or
all the answers, but working together we can continue to grow and build
something wonderful. I think we can agree on some things, so lets look at those
more and give the others a rest.
On the other hand,If the DNC doesn't speak for you as a
Democrat, then why are you still a Democrat. The DNC is the Democratic party. It
doesn't matter where you live. It's time for God fearing Democrats,
living in Utah or not, to call themselves something else. When the majority of a
group you affiliate with starts to boo God, it would probably behoove you, as a
Christian, to no longer affiliate with that group. As a Christian Republican
myself, if the Republican Party were to even question the importance of God at
any of their own official gatherings, I would be deeply offended and would
question my own affiliation with such a group. If a majority of Republicans on
the other hand, booed my God, openly and without shame at the RNC for instance,
I wouldn't walk, I would run away from the Republican Party. Period.
@killpack -- Two things: !. I would guess you never were going to vote for a
Democrat anyway, and 2. How did the DNC show contempt for "His holy place
of birth"? Strange comment.
Wonder,I have voted for Democrats in the past. But you are dead
wrong in guessing that, before the DNC, I wouldn't have voted Democrat
anyway. Why? For the very simple fact, that before this year's DNC, I never
said I wouldn't vote Democrat. It wasn't until AFTER the DNC, where I
observed behavior totally offensive to my Christian sensibilities, that I vowed
to never again vote for a Democrat, ever. Jerusalem is not only considered holy
by Muslims and Jews. For Christians, it is where our Lord and Savior was born,
it is where He walked and performed miracles, and it is where He was Crucified.
When Democrats booed Jerusalem at this year's convention, they showed
contempt for a city considered by millions, if not billions, to be holy. I do
not care to be affiliated in any way with a party that does that. Before this
year's convention, that wasn't the case, though you can keep guessing.
@killpack -- Only a partisan would think the Democrats booed Jeruselem. And I
think you're the only person I've ever heard say that they did.
That's a new one!
Well, I am a partisan now. And you seem to be missing that point. Before this
year's DNC, I really wasn't.
What!!!!????!!!! A two party system needs to be avoided at all costs and our
founding fathers warned us of this. George Washington warned of the 2 party
system, saying:"It serves always to distract the Public
Councils, and enfeeble the Public Administration. It agitates the Community with
ill-founded jealousies and false alarms; kindles the animosity of one part
against another, foments occasionally riot and insurrection. It opens the door
to foreign influence and corruption, which find a facilitated access to the
government itself through the channels of party passions. Thus the policy and
the will of one country are subjected to the policy and will of another."Look at what’s happening! This country is anything but united and
I blame the current 2 party system and its “members”. What
President Washington said above has happened and is happening. We need to
acknowledge the other parties in this country, which there are many, looking to
them for leadership instead of fearing them because the Republicans and
Democrats are epically failing, no matter how you look at it.
@killpack -- I will take your word for it then. However, I think you are basing
your partisanship on things that are not quite accurate. Some Democrats did boo
at the convention when some wording about God was put back in the platform. It
may have been because those individuals don't like God, or, most likely, it
was because they either: 1. don't think God should be mentioned in a party
platform or 2. Didn't like the process of how the change was being made.
You may disagree with either of those 2 reasons, but I think you have to realize
that there are a lot of Democrats who believe in God and there are Republicans
who don't. I just don't think this is a good reason to become a
partisan Republican. As to the Jerusalem issue - the platform originally said
Jerusalem should be the capital of Israel. That got taken out and then put back
in. No one was booing the city or the fact that Christ lived in the Holy Land.
That's why I don't understand your comments about Jerusalem from a
@mike richards maybe because as you have already been told before the old
second district went away thanks to republicans.
Until the church is on board, sorry about your luck.
@ Hutterite 5:33 p.m. Oct. 5, 2012Curious; Are borrowing &
modifying the catchphrase of James Storm (Impact Wrestling on Spike)?
I agree. Political parties are a sham. They make the ignorant appear
knowledgeable and allow the apathetic to assauage their guilt for not taking
care of their own problems. If you are gullible enough to believe that the
Democratic and Republican parties are solving societies problems, just wait for
another two or three elections. It will be worse! It doesn't matter who
is in charge! Wake up! Government is not the answer and bureaucrats will not
solve problems, just manage them. What a poor country indeed! Forget about the
Presidential election, make sure the House representatives causes gridlock with