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Mitt Romney releases 2011 taxes; paid $1.9 million on $13.7 million income, a 14.1% effective rate

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  • Pippin Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:40 p.m.

    I for one am outraged by this revelation. America took $1.9 million from the Romneys in a single year? That is disgraceful!

    When did this become acceptable? This is not the motive that emboldened those patriots to part with England. Theirs was a motive of liberty, a motive to be left alone by the government, not pillaged by it. It was a motive to pursue one's own happiness in free trade with his neighbors, not for his neighbors to combine against him to take what's his when he got more than they.

    I am tired of being looted and I get taxed at a higher percentage than the R omneys. The solution is NOT to loot my neighbor, the Romneys, to a higher percentage.

    The solution is this:

    Don't take what's mine. And don't take what's the Romneys'. Make a budget to run the military, the police, and the courts. Tell us what that budget it is. And make a recommendation for what I might contribute. And I'll contribute... happily. I'll bet the Romneys will too. But leave them and me free to make that decision.

  • liberal larry salt lake City, utah
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    I'd sure like to see someone explain how Mitt manages to convert his Bain management fee income into capital gains. I would love to magically transform my rental income into capital gains. Maybe all of us moochers would work a little harder if we didn't have to see the wealthy skate by on questionable tax dodges.

  • Joey D WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 12:59 p.m.

    In addition to their taxes paid they donated $4,020,772 to charity in 2011, amounting to nearly 30% of their income.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:04 p.m.

    Let him that paid more than $2 million cast the first stone

  • TRUTH Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:09 p.m.

    Liberal Larry? Really???? Its called double taxation! Something you Occupy-Libs wouldn't understand...

  • no fit in SG St.George, Utah
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    This revelation making anyone feel better about the man who hopes to be crowned in November?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:21 p.m.

    When the 1% own 80% of everything,
    the 1% SHOULD being paying 80% of the taxes.

    For a middle income person like myself,
    who earns 1/235 th as much has poor Mitt, to be required to pay at 2x's the % --
    The system is not fair, and is desperately broken!

    I also get so angry with the envying working class poor, who worship the wealthy and sit there and defend this disparity thinking it can somehow benefit them.

    FYI - this is why the uber-wealthy are against a flat tax.
    No more gaming the system in their favor.
    But they'll keep telling the poor to win their support
    its gonna hurt you, more than it's gonna hurt me.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:26 p.m.

    @Pippin, you're joking, right? You want to run the government on voluntary contributions? And the people who agree with you, are you all serious, too? Unbelievable. Unless you are just joking. Then I like your comment, too.

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    Double taxation.... say what Truth? First, start by learning the facts. Romney takes no Salary. So he couldn't be being double taxed. A lot of executive take little to no actual "income" because it lowers their tax liabilities. Rather, they get paid in options, which when converted, then sold, become long term capital gains not subject to payroll taxes. Double taxation.... good grief, learn how executive compensation really works.

    The other important thing to remember is the payroll taxes the average American pays, about 8 percent before income taxes even come even into consideration. Lets say that the average person were able to get the same nominal income tax rate Romney does... 13 percent. The difference would be that Middle Class Mike would pay that 13 percent, plus the 8 percent in Payroll taxes - coming to 21 % of income. Romney doesn't pay payroll taxes so his rate of 13% is just what it is - a minimum of 8 percent less in total tax terms than MCMike.

    Chris B.... so your are saying that if you make less than 2 million, you can't cast a stone here? You have no right to complain ? Really?

  • I M LDS 2 Provo, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    Pippin,

    I guess you never heard of the Constitution?

    It gives the Taxation power to Congress...

    And most LDS leaders have said it was inspired!

    You appear to have a problem with that?

  • Billy Bob Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:40 p.m.

    Romney paid all that he is legally liable to pay. Anyone who has a problem with that needs to ask themselves what they would do in that position. Anyone who knowingly pays more taxes than they are legally liable to pay is fooling themselves. It is a shame that Romney had to not claim all of his charitable contributions because of how the liberal main stream media would spin it if (heaven forbid!) Romney paid less than 14% in taxes. By law he is entitled to that deduction. If you don't like it than try to get the law changed, but don't fault Romney for using it as it is intended. Romney paid nearly $2 million in taxes while 47% pay nothing and people have the ignorant audacity to say ROMNEY doesn't pay his fair share???

    As for capital gains tax being lower, it only makes sense since that income was already taxed. Also we want to give people incentive to invest, because this helps the economy.

    The ignorance of liberals amazes me sometimes.

    Romney/Ryan 2012! Get rid of the economy-killing, country-destroying, constitution-ignoring Obama administration!

  • Al Thepal Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:43 p.m.

    No fit in SG, yes, as a matter of fact, it does make me feel better about Romney.

  • Economist Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:51 p.m.

    I don't know whether to laugh or cry at all of the factual representations or fallacies of logic here:

    @Pippin: If the government were to cease and desist from "taking" money from member of our Citizenry, then the opposite should be true for the tax rules that allows Bain Capital (and subsidiaries) to benefit from accounting tricks such as 1.) weighing down newly-acquired companies with collateralized debt, 2.) "carried interest" distributions derived from "sweat equity" at a taxed rate of 15%, 3.) and other perverse tax incentives that compel private Equity Companies like Bain to consolidate assets and homogenize markets.

    @Joey D: Your calculations are off: The $4,020,572 must be added back into Romney's AGI to get the percentage donated. The Schedule A Subtracts this amount from his Income, not adds it. So, $4,020,572 / (20,901,075 + 4,020,572) = 16% not 30%

    @Chris B: Its not the amount of money that is taxed, but rather the percentage of ones income and the method of producing that income which determines the tax treatment that is important

    Listen Guys, I know you love you some Romney, but let's debate with reasoned intellect, shall we?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    LDS lib,

    What does ownership have anything to do with it?

    Do you teach your kids to pay for what they use? Or only pay for what they want to pay and force others to make up the difference?

    When you go to the grocery store, why doesn't the cashier ring up all the purchases of everyone in the store at the same time, and then make everyone pay according to how much money they EARN?

    So if you buy $100 worth of goods and I buy $200$ worth of goods but you make twice as much as me you'd be fine with the cashier saying you have to pay $200 and I only pay $100

    Pay for what you use.

    I'll pay for what I use.

    Mitt being rich doesn't mean he's using 1,000 times the resources(defense, police, road repair) as anyone else, so why are people saying he should be paying ten thousand times what they pay?

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:56 p.m.

    Dear Mitt,

    I apologize there are so many unresponsible and lazy people that insist you pay for what they use.

    Most people who are upset with you are probably paying no more than a few thousand in taxes.

    You pay several MILLION.

    Several million is much larger than several thousand.

    Yet we all use the same police, same military, same schools.

  • Chris B Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:58 p.m.

    Question Libs:

    If Mitt hadn't worked hard, sacrificed, and made the good decisions that caused him to be rich, who should pay for the $2 million in taxes he otherwise hadn't paid?

    Are you suggesting the govt would have spent $2 million less if Mitt hadn't been rich?

    Wrong.

    The govt would have spent the same, even if Mitt only made $50k.

    Who should these costs go to if Mitt wasn't rich?

    The next richest guy around?

    Pay

    for

    what

    you

    USE

  • Pippin Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 1:59 p.m.

    @Wonder,

    Let me reverse your question to you:

    Are YOU joking?
    You want the government to have power to go to your neighbor and take what's theirs for your benefit?
    You want government to come and take what's yours for your neighbor's benefit?
    You want the government to take what's yours and give it back to you in a form that they deem most important and useful?
    In the absence of taxation, you would not voluntarily contribute funds, if you were able, to finance the military and the police and the courts that ensure your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness are not infringed by thugs, goons, and terrorists?

    I assure you, I was not joking; I was quite serious. I always am when defending my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

  • Kouger Lehi, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:03 p.m.

    In the end, Romney pays more taxes in one year than Obama does in his entire lifetime, (regardless of their earnings, which are each man's own doing). So Obama, now you have more money to REDISTRIBUTE! Stop attacking success!

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    Billy Bob said: "Romney paid all that he is legally liable to pay. Anyone who has a problem with that needs to ask themselves what they would do in that position. By law he is entitled to that deduction. If you don't like it than try to get the law changed, but don't fault Romney for using it as it is intended.Romney paid nearly $2 million in taxes while 47% pay nothing and people have the ignorant audacity to say ROMNEY doesn't pay his fair share???"

    Your right Bob and the 47% who paid no taxes also paid all that they are legally liable to pay.
    By law they are entitled to those deductions.
    I can't believe the ignorant audacity to claim that the 47% are any different from you or mitt.
    If you don't like it than try to get the law changed, but don't fault the 47% for using it as it is intended.

    Does the hypocrisy still elude you?

  • Al Thepal Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:09 p.m.

    He paid 43.5% of his income in either taxes or Federal income taxes. That is not even counting state income taxes or property taxes. After these taxes he easily paid more than 50% of his income to either charity or one government or another. And people seriously think he pays too
    LITTLE? The whole issue with Romney's tax returns does illustrate what is wrong with this country, but Romney is not the problem.

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:19 p.m.

    That's a good start. BUT this return was clearly prepared with the knowledge that it would have to pass the "sniff" test because of his run for the presidency. It doesn't say anything about how he really handles his finances. As George Romney said, when he was asked for just his latest tax return, "Release of the document, while it might serve a political purpose, would not prove very much. One year could be a fluke, perhaps done for show, and what mattered in personal finance was how a man conducted himself over the long haul."

    Now it's time for Willard to release ALL his tax returns going back 15+ years (back to his Bain days) so we can see what he really did with his finances and how he conducted himself over the long haul.

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:23 p.m.

    Pippin
    Kaysville, UT

    I assure you, I was not joking; I was quite serious. I always am when defending my rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    1:59 p.m. Sept. 21, 2012

    ===========

    Tell me Pippin,
    Are you a Veteran?

    I assure you, I am not joking; I am quite serious. I always have been when defending your rights to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness.

    I will always protect your rights,
    but not your wallet.

    There's always a price for freedom.

    Ask God.

  • TOO Sanpete, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:24 p.m.

    Chris B.

    Love your comments. Keep em coming. You make too much sense.

  • jsf Centerville, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    When mitt earned his income as a wage he paid the higher income taxes. He made investments with that taxed income and the investments make income. If he earns dividends on his investments, then the corporations paying those dividends pay taxes up to the 40 percent level and then mitt has to pay taxes on the amounts he gets from the corporation as dividends at about the 10 to 15 percent rate. The effective rate for dividends paid out is about 55 percent. Interest paid out is taxed at the lower rate. Larry were do you come up with the idea Mitt is even getting money from Baine?

  • SUNNY ALL DAY Saint George, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:34 p.m.

    romney required ryan to release 10 years of tax returns.
    romney has released two years of tax returns.
    Why would romney ask his VP to do something romney won't do?

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 2:34 p.m.

    @Pippin -- Do I want the government to tax citizens? Yes, of course. Otherwise we would have anarchy. I don't think there has ever in the history of the world been a civilized society where there were no taxes. How much would you voluntarily contribute just out of curiosity? In other words, what do you think a fair amount of tax is? Right now taxes are at historically low rates. If that's not good enough for you, then how low should they go? (Or how much should someone voluntarily pay under your scenario?)

  • Liberal Ted Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    I have the "Liberal Ted" taxation plan. It's fair and addresses everyone's concerns.

    If you're a democrat or one that believes you should pay your fair share. Then you will be taxed at a 50% rate. If you wish to pay more that is also fine.

    If you're a democrat and can't figure out how to either create a job or get one. Then you pay 100% of your income to the government. In turn you are given government housing, government food and healthcare. But, you only receive services to the amount that you earn. You still pay for everything you consume, but big brother will make sure you spend it wisely.

    For everyone else you will pay a 10% flat tax on the money you earn. If you invest your money, you are taxed on only new money that you generate. No more double taxation. Also when you die, since your money has been taxed, you can give it to whomever you want without the governmetn stealing half of it.

    The Federal government will be required to balance it's budget every year without raising taxes.

  • FT salt lake city, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:11 p.m.

    What a terribly run campain. Here we are with less than 50 days to go before the election and the discussion is once again on Romney's tax returns. The fact that he and so many of his supporters have to spend time defending the amount of taxes he pays instead of discussing what he'll do for the country is proof enough Obama is controlling the debate. Another day of getting Romney and the liberal media chasing their tails over this story is just another day wasted. Mitt has to be running the worst presidental campaing since George McGovern.

  • TruBlueAggie25 Logan, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:11 p.m.

    Why do we even attack Romney on taxes... Frankly, if we keep digging, we will find that he has just been doing what he is legally required to do and some... And the deductions he gets for donating to charity are not nearly as much the charity he donated. He EARNED his money, and we say, "How dare he make more money than me!" He worked for it... Its frankly none of our business how much he made or how much he paid in taxes... We should be looking at his policy... And obviously Obama hasn't done much to help the economy.

  • Belching Cow Sandy, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:14 p.m.

    Having someone who is successful and highly competent as president makes me uncomfortable. No one should be able to run for president who has made over $25,000 a year.

  • IDC Boise, ID
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    Why do I pay more than someone else for the exact same thing?

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:48 p.m.

    He says he never paid less than 13% and this year when he was set to pay less than 13%, he deliberately avoided taking the deductions available to him (he can file an amended return next year to recoup that gift to the treasury) just so he wouldn't fall below 13% this year.

  • H2OSKI Alpine, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 3:49 p.m.

    The intllectually vacant Liberals never can get enough of what is not theirs. Look at France, they are literally proposing a 75% tax!!

    They are just at an advanced state of the socialistic disease than us. The other interesting part to Frances proposal is that they openly admit the rich are literally fleeing and moving elsewhere which has decreased their overall tax revenue. They also admit that increasing the tax is largely political and to simply buy votes for the incoming prime minister and they know that what they gain will not begin to pay for the social spending issues.

    Great solution.

    It is no different here in America. oblamo could literally confiscate every dime from every rich person and it would not pay for the govt debt beyond a year. Then they would have eliminated 60% of the tax base entirely.

    Liberals have a disease and it causes them to spend 90% of the time talking about a solution for 10% of the problem.

    Current government spending can not be sustained regardless how much money you take from the rich.

    Have you even bothered to think about that?

    Stop regurgitating liberal talking points and attempt to think at least.

  • Social Mod Fiscal Con West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:01 p.m.

    @Liberal Ted

    Wow, are you running for president? Congress? Either way I would vote for your plan in a heart beat! Are you sure you're liberal? That is about the most perfect, fiscally conservative, solution I have ever heard.
    (OK, there are some problems that would have to be addressed, but the basic framework is excellent)

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:19 p.m.

    How pathetic when people mock someone who pays in the millions. Especially those who pay no income taxes at all.

    Obama is the leader of envy, and coveting.

  • Aggielove Cache county, USA
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:21 p.m.

    Lds lib.
    Sounds like 59k a year isn't cutting it.
    Is that mitts fault?

  • mightymite DRAPER, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:22 p.m.

    He would have been better off not even releasing them. This is going to hurt...

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 21, 2012 4:24 p.m.

    To "LDS Liberal" lets look at the stats on the top 1%. According to the NY Times and various other sources the top 1% own 40% of the wealth in the US. However, we do not tax people based on their wealth, but their income. If we look at their income, they take home 16% of all income in the US.

    Ok, now we know how much they own, and how much they earn. Lets look at what percent they pay of all federal income taxes. According to the the IRS, those same top 1% pay 40.4% of all income taxes in 2011. So, according to your reasoning, the rich pay their fair share.

    Since they pay their fair share according to your standards, does this mean that you will no longer complain about the taxes that the wealthy pay?

    Can you please pass that along to Obama.

  • worf Mcallen, TX
    Sept. 21, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    Obama spent more for one vacation, then Romney made in a year.

    Hmm? How much taxes did he pay on that?

  • UtahBlueDevil Durham, NC
    Sept. 21, 2012 8:30 p.m.

    Chris B... you could not afford to pay for what you use. Have you looked at the real cost of college? Have you looked at the average cost of educating an a child?

    Lets run with that. The average number of children in Utah is 3.57 kids. The average fully loaded ost to educate a child in Utah is just over $8,000. In your methodology of you pay for only what you use, the average household with kids in Utah would need to pay a minimum in state taxes of $28,500 a year just to cover the education expense.

    That doesn't cover fire protection services, the cost of personal security, etc,,, The average cost for a fire department to respond to a home fire... over $52,000. Right now that is a shared community expense. Under your plan, you alone pick up that bill. Yes, perhaps your insurance company might pick that up - but they will simply make that a shared expense across policy holders... and increase insurance cost for all... if you have insurance.

    So be really careful what you ask for.

  • Wonder Provo, UT
    Sept. 22, 2012 9:04 a.m.

    I am still absolutely flummoxed that at least 10 people who post to this board think that no one should have to pay taxes. Absolutely jaw dropping. (Pippin plus 9 people who have "liked" his/her first comment.) PLEASE, please, responsible Republicans, please return this crazy party of yours to sanity.

  • Pippin Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 22, 2012 2:40 p.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    You see no connection between my wallet and my rights?

    I use my life and my liberty to pursue my happiness. I exercise my rights to learn skills, to work in a variety of capacities, to acquire certain possessions that I value, and to enjoy certain leisures that please me. In all of these I exchange value that I create for values that others create. How do I create the value I trade? I act using my life and my liberty. Wonderfully, I am able to store the value I create in the form of money, in my wallet. What's in my wallet is directly connected to my life and liberty. It's a store of my life and liberty.

    This is what you won't protect. This is what you would combine with others to seize from me by force and call it taxation. You cannot take my money and then tell me that you will defend my rights. In taking my money, you are severing me from the product of my own life and liberty. You have cancelled out my rights. So, what's to defend then?

  • Pippin Kaysville, UT
    Sept. 22, 2012 2:42 p.m.

    @ LDS Liberal

    You see no connection between my wallet and my rights?

    I use my life and my liberty to pursue my happiness. I exercise my rights to learn skills, to work in a variety of capacities, to acquire certain possessions that I value, and to enjoy certain leisures that please me. In all of these I exchange value that I create for values that others create. How do I create the value I trade? I act using my life and my liberty. Wonderfully, I am able to store the value I create in the form of money, in my wallet. What's in my wallet is directly connected to my life and liberty. It's a store of my life and liberty.

    This is what you won't protect. This is what you would combine with others to seize from me by force and call it taxation. You cannot take my money and then tell me that you will defend my rights. In taking my money, you are severing me from the product of my own life and liberty. You have cancelled out my rights. So, what's to defend then?

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 23, 2012 2:27 p.m.

    I've done a bit of research. The partnerships in which Romney/Bain is involved in the Cayman Islands contain the following provision (See Gawker page concerning Romney/Bain documents):

    The Partnership is a qualified intermediary and intends to conduct it operations so that it will not be engaged in a United States trade or business and, therefore, will not be subject to United States federal income or withholding tax on its income from United States sources.... Under the current laws of the Cayman Islands, there are no income, estate, transfer, sales, or other Cayman Islands taxes payable by the Partnership.

    In other words, nothing these Cayman Island partnerships do is taxable either by the United States or the Cayman Islands. Romney/Bain has paid $0.00 taxes -- has evaded taxes -- on income from these investments since the inception of his/their involvement with them.

    BTW -- Brad Malt, the trustee on the so-called "blind trust" in which he Romney assets hav bee "placed" -- is Romney's personal attorney. That makes it a not-so-blind trust I wonder how many more shenanigns Romney is pulling.

    Lovely [end sarcasm].

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 25, 2012 2:01 p.m.

    To "Furry1993" has Romney or Bain Capital done anything illegal?

    If they have not done anything illegal, then why complain about Romeny obeying the law? Do you also whine about people going to the corner to cross in the crosswalk rather than cross wherever they want?

  • RedShirt USS Enterprise, UT
    Sept. 26, 2012 7:42 a.m.

    To "Furry1993" did Romney do anything illegal?

    Is it against the law to have your personal attorney also handle your blind trust in the state of Massachussetts?

    If he has done nothing illegal, why attack him on something that you don't like?

    It is like you are following behind somebody driving in the right hand lane on the freeway and yelling at them for driving the speed limit.