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Letter: Does Utah really have a two party system?

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  • ugottabkidn Sandy, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 4:30 a.m.

    Quite frankly Susan, Utah is a one party state. The political system was hijacked 30 years ago by emmigrants from other states. Working class values have stepped aside for the quest to be Mittenized. Home teachers abandoned the gospel of Jesus for the gospel of cash and pyramids. More than once I have heard the phrase you can't be Democratic and a good Mormon. In the end, I really believe in the goodness of our citizens but they prefer to be sheep. Hence, from a state with some of the best voter turnouts has turned to the worst.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 11, 2012 5:46 a.m.

    When one looks at the "battleground" states in the upcoming election, it is hard not to be envious of the attention.

    Those people have a true vote in the presidential election. And the candidates are wooing the voters.

    Utah (and many others)? Why bother. R's will get the vote regardless and the D's would lose to Lassie.

    The "R" candidates will only come for your $$. They already know they have your vote.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 5:53 a.m.

    As for the presidential election, I think its a waste of gas to even go to the voting booth. A vote for Romney is secure. A vote for Obama is a waste. A protest vote, is just that. WOrthless.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2012 6:08 a.m.

    Why is it that those who believe in a woman's right to have an abortion for any reason or no reason at all and those who support Gay marriage flock to the Democratic party? What the author of this opinion piece refuses to understand is that the majority of Utahns vote for the candidate and the party that most closely is aligned with their beliefs.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2012 6:09 a.m.

    When someone decides to join a party, can't we also assume that they want to promote the principles and ideals of that party? Between the Republican Party and the Democrat party, we have two very clear choices.

    Republicans believe that life is sacred and to be protected. Democrats believe that a woman has the right to demand that the life within her be destroyed. Democrats believe that a religious organization should be forced to dispense contraceptives and to perform abortions.

    Republicans believe in God. Democrats voted to remove God from their platform, even though, in a voice vote too close to call, the put God back in.

    Republicans believe that God instituted marriage and that marriage is between a Man and a Woman. Democrats want to redefine marriage to mean whatever the political winds are blowing that day.

    Republicans believe in self-reliance and work. Democrats believe that government created it and that some rich Republican should pay for it - without requiring Democrats to work.

    Is there any doubt that the conservative people of Utah have no use for the "principles" and "ideals" of the Democrat Party? Change the party if you want Utahns to join.

  • RanchHand Huntsville, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 7:05 a.m.

    This is Utah. Don't expect any miracles.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 7:46 a.m.

    @ ugottabkidn, you nailed it exactly right.

    And being a one party state actually hurts Utah over time and in the big picture.

  • T. Party Pleasant Grove, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 8:25 a.m.

    I learned at church that life is sacred, that people are responsible for their own actions, that it's wrong to take what belongs to others, that work should be enthroned as a ruling principle, that we should strive to be self-reliant, that we should stay out of debt, and that temporal goods should be provided in the Lord's way.

    Show me a political party that promotes these principles, and I'll join it.

    I once tried to be a Republican, but they ran the same deficits as the Democrats.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 11, 2012 8:40 a.m.

    Rifleman and Richards,

    You make good points. If my top issues were the ones that you mentioned - Gays, Religion, Abortion I would be a staunch Republican.

    So, I understand that Utah is a solid red state.

    It is when we start clamoring about all the other issues that I take exception.

    Deficit, Taxes, Spending, Regulation, Socialism. The GOP is far from a clear winner on any of these points. I base that on History and what the Republicans actually DO, not what the platform says.

  • PeanutGallery Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 8:55 a.m.

    Yes, there are good people in the Democrat party. But some of the ideals supported by the Democrats are things with which many Utahns disagree. It's as simple as that.

    Governor Herbert supports a party platform that the majority of Utahns agree with. I don't find that at all embarrassing.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2012 9:11 a.m.

    JoeBlow,

    I guess it all depends on what you value most in life. If you're more concerned with taxes than you are with 50,000,000 mothers who decided to end the life that they carried, then perhaps the Democrat Party reflects your values.

    Until we value life more than we value money, the political parties will always be at odds. Some think that "compassion" means that we "give" everyone what they need, but that is not compassion. They is teaching someone to cheat the system. The "system" is clear. We eat our bread by the sweat of our brow. We care for our families. When possible, we extend help to those who are truly in need; but, we NEVER teach people to NOT work. We NEVER teach people to abdicate their personal responsibility to repay their debts. And, most important of all, we NEVER tell a woman that she can make a unilateral decision when the LIFE of someone else is at stake. 15% of those invited into life by the actions of a woman and a man were destroyed. The total population of California, Oregon and Washington is less than 50,000,000.

    Think about it.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 9:43 a.m.

    To continue Mike Richards’ list:

    Republicans believe in incorporating their brand of religion into government; Democrats believe in the separation of church and state.

    Republicans believe in forcing their version of morality on society; Democrats believe in free agency.

    Republicans believe in promoting war and boundless military spending; Democrats believe in promoting peace and limiting military spending to legitimate defense needs.

    Republicans believe in social Darwinism, where every man fares according to the management of the creature; Democrats believe in a social compact that requires the community to care for the poor and helpless.

    Republicans believe in a tax policy that widens the gap between rich and poor; Democrats believe in a tax policy that narrows that gap.

    Republicans believe that wages should be suppressed, or jobs shipped overseas, so that “job creators” can earn 300x what their employees earn and stash it away in offshore accounts to avoid taxes; Democrats believe that honest work should be rewarded with a living wage.

    It's a sad commentary that so many Republicans subscribe to such "principles" and "ideals."

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 9:48 a.m.

    =======

    True!
    Utah was all DEMOCRAT at the time, since the Republicans [Conservatives] hated the Mormons due to their unorthodox marriages, women's rights, universal healthcare, Anti-Big Corporation and uber-rich Businesses, our Socialist/Communist United order and many Social Programs amongst other things.

    But Pres. Young knew their needed to be a balance.
    Opposition in all things,
    Moderation in all things,
    Since Mormons didn't voluntarily spilt parties - he ultimately ordered Stakes and Wards to spilt evenly right down the middle.

    The LDS Church still advocates this balance.
    The LDS Church would prefer to have members in both parties. “Both locally and nationally, the interests of the church and its members are best served when we have two good men or women running on each ticket, and then no matter who is elected, we win,”

    BTW - Only "Elder" Ezra T. Benson was the ONLY one who ever said you can't be a Democrat and a good Mormon.
    He was centured and reprimanded by the LDS 1st Presidency for it.
    But the cat was already out of the bag, and Republican Mormons have been quoting him ever since.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 9:57 a.m.

    It is not the people's responsibility to attract a party; it is the party's problem to attract people.

    Utah used to be predominantly Democrat; if it is not now, who's fault is that really?

    (Hint: It's not the people's or ANY church's problem)

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 9:58 a.m.

    Let's read the LDS policy and compare platforms;

    The Church allows abortion for its MEMBERS when:
    - Pregnancy results from rape or incest, or
    - A physician determines that the life or health of the mother is in serious jeopardy, or
    - A physician determines that the fetus has severe defects that will not allow the baby to survive.
    - ...should be considered after consulting with local church leaders.

    --------

    The Democratic platform states: "Abortion is an intensely personal decision between a woman, her family, her doctor and her clergy; there is no place for politicians or government to get in the way."

    The Republican platform seeks passage of a constitutional amendment that would extend legal rights to the unborn, essentially banning ALL abortions with NO exceptions
    -- even in the cases of Rape, Incest, Life and Health of the Woman, and viability of the fetus.
    [running diametrically 180 degrees opposed to LDS policy].

    The LDS church has been soft on illegal immigration and has encouraged gay rights (civil unions, domestic partnerships for housing) BOTH of which the GOP has defiantly shotdown.

    Who’s being extreme?
    Who’s rejecting the Prophets and Apostles?
    Who more inharmony?
    Who’s following the brethren?

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 10:16 a.m.

    Mike has built an elaborate set of stereotypes regarding what, in reality, are very diverse groups of people.

    I wonder if Mike would be surprised to learn that there are Pro-Choice Republicans and Pro-Life Democrats? That there are atheistic Republicans and devoutly christian Democrats? That there are Republicans who favor a broad definition of marriage and Democrats who favor a traditional definition of marriage? That there are Republicans who hold the view that individuals have a responsibility for the wellbeing of society as a whole and Democrats who hold the view that individuals have personal responsibility for their own wellbeing?

    In the meantime, the extreme partisan imbalance in our state results in many elected officials who take the Utah electorate for granted, who are ethically lax, and who generally exhibit an appalling degree of hubris -- which is why I am an LDS, Pro-Life Democrat.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Sept. 11, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    "Until we value life more than we value money, the political parties will always be at odds"

    Are you suggesting that the Republicans "value life more than money?". And THAT is why the parties are at odds?

    And just when I thought we had a breakthrough.

  • Happy Valley Heretic Orem, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 10:29 a.m.

    Mike R said: "And, most important of all, we NEVER tell a woman that she can make a unilateral decision when the LIFE of someone else is at stake."

    Yes we understand the republican platform is that Women have NO say in their own Health, even if their OWN LIFE is at stake. We also know that they didn't allow a single woman to comment during the birth control debates last year.

    50,000,000 Where do you get this number?
    Was this last years total?
    Is this some speculative history of the world count?
    Is it just a made up number? (I suspect)

    Mike said: "They is teaching someone to cheat the system."
    Who, the millionaires with endless loopholes and offshore accounts?
    The corporations who receive welfare while posting record profits?
    The politicians passing laws that benefit their high dollar contributors, while destroying our children's inheritance?

  • LDS Liberal Farmington, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 10:39 a.m.

    When was the last time anyone saw a commerical, ad, or flier from Orrin Hatch?

    Isn't he still running for Senate?

    Oh ya --
    The SELECTION is over.
    He won the GOP nomination.

    And that's all the SHEEple require.

    BTW --
    Utah is about as Politically imbalanced and One-Party System as;

    North Korea,
    Communist China,
    Islamic Iran,
    Communist Cuba,
    and
    Nazi Germany.

    Even Iraq and Afghanistan have more political balance than Utah-liban.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    @Rifleman
    "Why is it that those who believe in a woman's right to have an abortion for any reason or no reason at all and those who support Gay marriage flock to the Democratic party? What the author of this opinion piece refuses to understand is that the majority of Utahns vote for the candidate and the party that most closely is aligned with their beliefs."

    So let me get this straight... after all that talk by Republicans that this election is all about the economy and jobs... you're going to tell me that most Utahns vote based on abortion and gay marriage?

    @Mike Richards
    The Republican platform allows for no exceptions for abortion even in life of the mother cases. Basically, an unborn fetus has more rights than woman as far as Republicans are concerned. As for that God matter... as a Christian I wanted the God language removed because we're a nation with religious freedom and that language suggests favorability for a particular religion which is wrong.

    "Republicans believe in self-reliance and work."

    Democrats are the ones pushing for job training programs and more access to education so people can actually be self-reliant.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 11:10 a.m.

    @Mike Richards
    "Until we value life more than we value money"

    Last I checked one party was pushing forward healthcare expansions while the other party said we couldn't afford it. One party is trying to reduce the deficit by increasing taxes no higher than clinton levels, cutting defense spending, and other spending cuts that are balanced... the other party wants to reduce the deficit by severely cutting Medicaid spending (by a third) and turning Medicare into a voucher program while defense spending increases and taxes decrease.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 11:30 a.m.

    The CDC (Centers for Disease Control) has tracked over 50,000,000 abortions in the United States since 1973. Of those, 2.8% were listed as being necessary due to maternal health. So what about the other 97.2%? What reasons were given for those abortions? Does it matter? Lives were extinguished while those lives were nestled in the wombs of the mothers. There was no trial to see if that "life" deserved death. There was no lawyer appointed to defend that life. It was a unilateral decision. The "mother" decided to destroy that life.

    You can dehumanize those lives, but that would dehumanize you.

    Imagine traveling from the Mexican border northward to the Canandian border through California, Oregon and Washington and finding every house empty - no living person. If those three states were empty without a living soul, it would be less than 50,000,000.

    Democrats cry great tears for someone condemned to be executed. They stage "death watches". They hold news conferences. They beat their chests and tell us that we have become a babarian nation - yet they demand that any woman be allowed to destroy the life within her.

    Utahns respect life. Utah is Republican.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 11, 2012 11:54 a.m.

    Re: atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    "So let me get this straight... you're going to tell me that most Utahns vote based on abortion and gay marriage?"

    No, you don't have it straight. Republican look at the whole package of which abortion and gay marriage are just two elements. Nice try but no cigar.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 12:06 p.m.

    @mike richards
    Again Mike republicans believe in a god or mostly agree with your God not The God. I know it is hard to imagine but you and republicans do not have the corner on the market of The Truth.

  • Tolstoy salt lake, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 12:10 p.m.

    @J thomas

    your absolutist belief that a fetus is a life is not fact it is your belief, you cannot really argue that the person being executed is not alive.

  • Counter Intelligence Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    @Tolstoy
    "your absolutist belief that a fetus is a life is not fact it is your belief"

    WOW: I "believe" that is one of the most callous and supremacist things that I have ever read.

  • procuradorfiscal Tooele, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 1:36 p.m.

    Speaking as a lifelong [longer than most posters here have been alive] Democrat -- one whose pioneer ancestors thoughtlessly sat on the shady side of an outdoor Millard County stake conference, and thus, were drafted as Democrats -- there are many reasons why one may express a particular party affiliation.

    In my own case, I've successfully avoided thousands of boring political discussions by asserting, "I'm a Democrat," watching with bemused relief the horror and quick retreat such a statement often produces.

    I have little sympathy for or truck with most Democrat platform planks. But, I've never harbored the deranged view that people shouldn't assume I do from the company I choose to keep.

    Mr. Cooke -- an honorable and decent man, to be sure -- seems to have forgotten that.

    I can attest that one who affiliates himself with an organization harboring so many positions inimical to views we hold sacred, starts out from a position of disadvantage.

    The burden's on us -- not voters -- to overcome the opprobrium that naturally flows from our political choice.

  • Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 4:02 p.m.

    Rifleman:

    I appreciate that you think Republicans look at the whole package, but my sense is that for most Republicans, if a party's package contains anything other than a complete ban on abortions, it doesn't matter what else is in it. That is, abortion (and possibly gay marriage) are deal breakers for most Republicans, are they not? Could you, for example, support a platform that allowed for abortions in the case of rape, incest, or grave danger to the mother or fetus (the LDS Church's position, BTW)?

    In fairness, I would hope that you would concede that neither party is composed solely of extreme ideologues, and that there is diversity of views in each party. That there are Democrats who oppose unlimited abortion rights and Republicans who support abortion in the case of rape, incest, or grave risk to mother or fetus. And that there are members of both parties for whom the abortion issue is not a litmus test, but one of many factors to weigh.

  • Truthseeker SLO, CA
    Sept. 11, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    UT essentially a "one-party" state?
    Of course.

    Despite the rhetoric about being politically neutral, Church-owned DN does its best to promote the Republican Party candidates and policies.

  • Owl Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 11, 2012 7:21 p.m.

    Utah has a 4 party system; moderate Dems and Repubs and wing nuts on each end. If their candidate could ever make it through the primaries, the moderates should get together.

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 8:57 a.m.

    Yes, Utah is dominated by Republicans just like some other "Red States". On the other side, there are "Blue States" like CA and NY that are heavily dominated by Democrats.

    I wonder if many liberals here who express so much concern in Utah over its single party dominance would express those same concerns if they lived in one of those states. I could be wrong, but I think lots of them would be perfectly comfortable there under a political climate that they agree with.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Sept. 12, 2012 10:56 a.m.

    Re: Curmudgeon Salt Lake City, UT
    "Could you, for example, support a platform that allowed for abortions in the case of rape, incest, or grave danger to the mother or fetus?"

    I know of very few Republicans who don't believe that abortions are appropriate in the situations you list. I certainly support abortions in those cases.

    Where do liberals ever come up with these bogus false concepts about conservatives and their views on abortions?

  • Mister J SLC, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 2:40 p.m.

    re: Owl 7:21 p.m. Sept. 11, 2012

    "Utah has a 4 party system... the moderates should get together."

    They have. They are called Libertarians.

  • lost in DC West Jordan, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 4:49 p.m.

    Susan,
    If Mr. Cooke were that qualified, he would change political affiliation.

    Ugottabkiddn,
    30 years ago? Nope, it was 40 years ago when the dems adopted a severe anti-family position (pro-abortion) and they have been adding additional anti-family positions – the dems left Utah before Utahans left the dems.

    Curmudgeon,
    Nice twist. Congratulations on your creativity. Mike Richards spoke only of what his side believes – he did not mock and twist what the other side believes as you did. LOVE your example of the “tolerance” of the left.

    LDS Lib,
    I believe the word is “censured”, not “centured”. Why do you not compare CA, ILL, or MA to those totalitarian countries you list? They are as much or more 1 party states as Utah. Oh, I know, they are solid blue.

    Rifleman,
    Libs come up with bogus stuff because it’s often their only argument

  • SG in SLC Salt Lake City, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 5:44 p.m.

    @Mister J

    Amusing, but not very accurate, in my opinion.

    On the whole, Libertarians would generally not be considered "moderate" by any objective measure that I am aware of, and most Libertarians self-identify as "conservative" (or as "19th Century liberal", from whence they derive their name).

    Libertarians almost universally subscribe to the Austrian School of laissez faire capitalism and fiscal policy (or lack thereof), which is generally considered to be very conservative. On the other hand, Libertarians bias towards absolutely minimal government intervention means that they often are much less conservative than Republicans when it comes to social policy(e.g., the legalization of drugs and gambling).

  • Furry1993 Ogden, UT
    Sept. 12, 2012 6:13 p.m.

    To Rifleman 10:56 a.m. Sept. 12, 2012

    "Could you, for example, support a platform that allowed for abortions in the case of rape, incest, or grave danger to the mother or fetus?"

    I know of very few Republicans who don't believe that abortions are appropriate in the situations you list. I certainly support abortions in those cases.

    Where do liberals ever come up with these bogus false concepts about conservatives and their views on abortions?

    -----------------

    Take a look at the Republican Party platform. It opposes abortions for ANY reason; no exceptions.

  • killpack Sandy, UT
    Sept. 13, 2012 11:29 a.m.

    Does the San Francisco Bay Area (far more populous than Utah) have a two party system? Barack Obama beat John McCain by 50, yes 50, percentage points in the Bay Area. In Utah, John McCain beat Barack Obama by 28 percentage points. Just to put things in perspective.

  • Mike in Cedar City Cedar City, Utah
    Sept. 13, 2012 5:14 p.m.

    Yes we have 2 parties, Republican right and Republican light.

  • Ryan in Taylorsville Taylorsville, Utah
    Sept. 14, 2012 6:49 p.m.

    Utahns will vote for democrats when democrats reject the values that Utahns reject and embrace the values that Utahns embrace. It's not Utah's fault that it's a "one-party" state.

    Democracy is a marketplace of ideas. Only one party is producing what Utahns want right now.