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Letter: We did build our businesses

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  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 6:04 a.m.

    "President Obama's statement... is further evidence that, to him, the federal government is a magical make-believe land where money grows endlessly on trees."

    That's nonsense. Nothing in either the complete remarks from which this quote is taken, or from any action the president has taken can be construed to show a disregard for the sources of federal revenue.

    President Obama has, in fact, gone to great lengths to offer proposals to shrink the deficit, but Republicans, adherents to Grover Norquist's cult of fiscal fantasy, refuse to accept deficit reduction plans offered to them because a small fraction of those plans also include closing certain tax loopholes to increase tax revenue.

    When businesses pay their fair share of taxes, then yes, they are in fact helping themselves and other businesses to succeed. And then what of when businesses pay little or no taxes?

    The point is that the taxes a business pays aren't put into an earmarked account and spent exclusively on only those roads and other infrastructure that directly benefit that business.

    President Obama's observation is completely valid - success in business requires both individual initiative _and_ public infrastructure.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 5, 2012 6:50 a.m.

    Jan,

    I just read the entire Obama speech. The one that you took a one sentence excerpt.

    I challenge you to read the whole speech and tell me what you disagree with.

    I am not talking about one sentence taken out of context, but the speech as a whole and the concepts that are being conveyed.

    Read it and tell me that your one sentence is the message that is conveyed.

    I am guessing that spreading the miss-information is really what it is about.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:05 a.m.

    So what you are saying is that paying taxes is good because it gives your business the infrastructure it needs to operate. I agree.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:12 a.m.

    President Obama is saying the same thing: all of us contribute to the business environment that breeds success. We contribute by paying taxes; we contribute by supporting education; we contribute by mentoring young people. If we don't all contribute, success for anyone becomes much more difficult.

    I am growing increasingly discouraged by Governor Romney's campaign which appears to be focused on deliberately misconstruing meaning (see, also, the Ohio voting rights issue) in order to create false issues. Frankly, I expect more honesty from a former stake president.

  • Midvaliean MIDVALE, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:46 a.m.

    Jan, Its clear you never listened to the speech. You just took the edited GOP talking point and ran with it. Seriously, there are so many other points about Obama you could discuss, bringing this up just brings the intelligence level of political dialog down.

  • KDave Moab, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:48 a.m.

    So true. Many Politicos (like Obama) like to take credit for the hard work of others.

  • Baron Scarpia Logan, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:55 a.m.

    another letter taking the President's quote out of context...

    His point is that continued GOP rhetoric that government spending doesn't better business opportunity or society is a myth. Without infrastructure, industry cannot grow and thrive. That's all.

    Yes, the government did build the Internet. And yes, it was Al Gore's forward-seeing sponsored legislation in 1992 that allowed businesses to operate and profit off of it.

  • UTAH Bill Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:09 a.m.

    You really should listen to the speech or read the transcript of it, Jan. For, the President was referring to public work projects built by the government on behalf of the people. These are important public assets private providers would not step up and build.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    ...and this letter is further evidence that a conservative who is still rankled by Mr. Obama's election will distort every possible statement and ignore every possible alternative explanation in an intellectually impoverished attempt to denigrate a viewpoint with which he/she does not understand.

    Mr. Obama's point is that you did not create your business in a vacuum; infrastructure, technology, the work of your teachers before you created an atmosphere in which your hard work could yield results. He didn't say you did not work hard or deserve success. Not sure why we're taking offense at this, it is essentially complementing America. Which Obama apparently cannot do because conservatives like to label him as an American-hater? You truly are masters at spin. You know how to twist a quote. You know how to create boogeymen. And you know how to repeat the lie over and over and over again.

  • Esquire Springville, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:28 a.m.

    Do you realize that in your perverse argument, you actually argue both sides of the equation? Either you don't get the point of the President, or you are engaged in a deliberate deception and misrepresentation. Which is it?

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:31 a.m.

    Here's the paragraph in which the dreaded quote is found. Might as well have it in context:

    "If you’ve been successful, you didn’t get there on your own. You didn’t get there on your own. I’m always struck by people who think, well, it must be because I was just so smart. There are a lot of smart people out there. It must be because I worked harder than everybody else. Let me tell you something — there are a whole bunch of hardworking people out there. If you were successful, somebody along the line gave you some help. There was a great teacher somewhere in your life. Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business — you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. The Internet didn’t get invented on its own. Government research created the Internet so that all the companies could make money off the Internet."

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:33 a.m.

    And some more text from the same speech which could probably also be interpreted as anti-American if you are so inclined.

    "The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together. There are some things, just like fighting fires, we don’t do on our own. I mean, imagine if everybody had their own fire service. That would be a hard way to organize fighting fires.

    "So we say to ourselves, ever since the founding of this country, you know what, there are some things we do better together. That’s how we funded the G.I. Bill. That’s how we created the middle class. That’s how we built the Golden Gate Bridge or the Hoover Dam. That’s how we invented the Internet. That’s how we sent a man to the moon. We rise or fall together as one nation and as one people, and that’s the reason I’m running for President -- because I still believe in that idea. You’re not on your own, we’re in this together."

  • JoeCapitalist2 Orem, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:37 a.m.

    Actually, in his world, all that money you paid in taxes belongs to the government anyway along with the rest of your money. Whenever the government lets you keep a little more of it, it is a "gift". Every tax cut is a giveaway. Every attempt to let rich people keep a little more of it is an unfair gift to those who don't deserve it.

    All that money that Mitt Romney earned really isn't his. It is the government's. Shame on him for spending it (or storing it) in places that it's rightful owner (the government) does not approve of. The only solution is to wrest more control over it to its rightful owner by raising his taxes.

    Once you understand this mentality, President Obama's comments make perfect sense.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:54 a.m.

    How many times do we have to say this? Read the whole talk!!!!!!

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:59 a.m.

    Great letter Jan! Obama doesn't understand fundamental economics in that if the private sector isn't working, being successful and paying taxes, there will be no money to pay the public sector. That means teachers, fireman, policeman, etc will not get paid unless taxpayers in the private sector are successful first and not the other way around!

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 9:01 a.m.

    Obama was saying that businesses didn't build the roads and bridges, that gov't helps with things like infrastructure investments, and Romney agrees.

    Obama: "Somebody helped to create this unbelievable American system that we have that allowed you to thrive. Somebody invested in roads and bridges. If you’ve got a business, you didn’t build that. Somebody else made that happen. ... The point is, is that when we succeed, we succeed because of our individual initiative, but also because we do things together."

    Romney: "I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help."

    Or maybe we can use an olympic one.

    Romney: "You Olympians... know that you didn't get here solely on your own power. For mot of you, loving parents, sisters or brothers encouraged your hopes. Coaches guided. Communities built venues and organized competitions. All Olympians stand on the shoulders of those who lifted them."

    Communities built venues? So he thinks even gov't helped.

  • KJB1 Eugene, OR
    Aug. 5, 2012 9:02 a.m.

    It's been established repeatedly that President Obama was talking about roads and infrastructure that most businesses can't survive without when he said "you didn't built that." If you're going to criticize, at least quote him correctly.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 9:20 a.m.

    U.S. government research created the internet. Without that, Google, Ebay, Amazon, Facebook, and thousands of other online businesses, would not exist. President Obama nowhere suggested that the government created those businesses, merely that the government created the conditions for them to come into being. Which is a totally accurate statement.

  • Furry1993 Clearfield, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 9:33 a.m.

    To KDave 7:48 a.m. Aug. 5, 2012

    So true. Many Politicos (like Obama) like to take credit for the hard work of others.

    -----------------------

    And that statement is not supported by FACTS.

  • Moderate Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 10:02 a.m.

    Is "conservative" synomymous with "poor at math"? A single business does NOT pay enough taxes to support an entire police force, fire department, and supporting infrastructure. To quote another politician "It takes a village".

  • Blue Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 10:34 a.m.

    Moderate: " Is 'conservative' synomymous with 'poor at math?'"

    The short answer is - yes, the evidence is clear they're terrible at math.

    They're also terrible at science, and history, and reading comprehension and the use of logic. Each of those disciplines reveal gaping flaws in the conservative world view.

    I know those are harsh words, but one need look no further than the ascendency of the Tea Party to see that this unflattering assessment of contemporary conservatism is demonstrably true.

    In the conservative universe beliefs are more important than objective, testable evidence, and so they dismiss reality in order to preserve their beliefs.

    News reporting that they don't like is dismissed as "biased." Court rulings they don't agree with are dismissed as "judicial activism." Peer-reviewed scientific research that contradicts their beliefs are dismissed as "junk science." Distort, deny, fabricate... anything to avoid dealing with reality. Jan's letter being the perfect case in point.

    Conservatives didn't always behave this way. Understanding why the conservative movement of today has gone so far off the rails is a subject that will keep historians and sociologists busy for years.

  • one old man Ogden, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 12:12 p.m.

    This letter is just one more in a pile of examples of the truth of the saying that a liberal is simply a conservative who refuses to allow himself to be fooled by anyone.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 1:17 p.m.

    Stop listening to Faux News and start paying attention to what President Obama said.
    Of course the right attempted to find people who claim to have done it all on their own and it backfired. The business owner they interviewed received an interest free loan, from the government, for $800,000.

  • Twin Lights Louisville, KY
    Aug. 5, 2012 3:04 p.m.

    Could someone PLEASE change the channel? I am just sick of listening to this stupidity. It's like watching endless reruns of the same banal show.

    A. This is not what Obama said and certainly not what he meant.

    B. We have an election coming up and far more important issues to discuss than these non-issues.

    I won't be voting for Obama. But this is certainly not the reason.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 5, 2012 3:29 p.m.

    Thank you Twin.

    I am so sick of people intentionally misrepresenting the truth for political gain.

    And, sorry to say, but I see that on the Right Repeatedly. I get viral emails weekly that are complete fabrications that have NO Truth in them whatsoever.

    Death Panels, Birth Certificates, Obama wants to take away your guns, Obama is a Muslim, Obama is a socialist, Muslim brotherhood infiltrated Hillary Clinton's office, Nancy Pelosi's jet, Obamas vacation days and costs blah blah blah

    I see this garbage weekly. And while I am certain some of it exists on the left, I DONT see it. And I am confident that it is nowhere nearly as pervasive as what comes out from the right. It is an intentional barrage of miss-information.

    Google Dick Morris Obamas comming taxes. Blatant, intentional, outright lies intended to mislead and scare old people. Find one shred of truth in there.

    I vote both R and D, but the R is getting more and more embarrassing.

    Is it really that difficult to find true dirt on Obama?

  • freedomingood provo, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2012 3:46 p.m.

    You know what would be awesome? If I woke up one day to find that my church's newspaper was filled with intelligent, thoughtfull, non-partisan investigative jounalism that I didn't either bow my head in shame for or have to fact check every word.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2012 3:47 p.m.

    The government can't give anything to the people that it doesn't first take from the people. The Federal Government is responsible for blocking growth with all their regulations, fees, and taxes.

    No wonder a loaf of bread costs the customer so much!!

  • UT Brit London, England
    Aug. 5, 2012 4:08 p.m.

    "Eat, drink, and be merry, for tomorrow we die"

    Says it right in the scriptures LDS members, do what you like there is no consequence to our actions.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 4:30 p.m.

    Given the context all Obama followers want so desperately to believe, what was Obama's speech about? Why the need to lecture business owners? I'd like to see all those people Obama keeps running into with the total narcissism to assert that no one helped them create and maintain businesses - that they didn't benefit from roads, bridges, other infrastructure, and firemen and teachers. I don't believe this kind of businessman exists.

    Obama's point of lecturing businesspeople is to shame them into accepting a higher tax rate. More likely, to drive his base into a frenzy of class warfare. Horribly pathetic.

    Presidents used to praise successful businesspeople for their ingenuity, risk-taking, investment of heart and finances, for putting people to work, for keeping the economic engine alive that has created more prosperity than any other country in the history of the world. Now, our President waggs his finger and lectures them about not paying their fair share, and accuses them of taking credit when they're just milking the teet of a publicly financed infrastructure.

    I don't see that his comments, in context, are any better than how they're spun by Romney's campaign.

  • micawber Centerville, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 5:06 p.m.

    @LetsDebate

    "Class warfare?" Why use this kind of meaningless rhetorical term? President Obama and Governor Romney disagree about what the percentage should be for higher tax brackets. That's not warfare, it's a debate. He did not say business people are milking the teet (sic) of publicly financed infrastructure.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 5:23 p.m.

    @LetsDebate
    He's noting the benefits of infrastructure and how investing in that sort of thing will help the economy while also allow for a boost in jobs to help ride things out til the private sector gets back together. Yeah that thing is paid for with a tax increase on the rich that brings their rates no higher than what they were under Clinton, that's because Democrats tend to pay for their spending bills.

    Though since Romney said this within a week of Obama's "you dind't build that" thing...
    Romney: "I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business. Perhaps the banks, the investors. There's no question your mom and dad. Your school teachers. The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help."

    I have to wonder if you question why he would say that too, or is the devious motive thing only applicable to Obama?

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2012 6:27 p.m.

    How many have swallowed Obama's rhetoric, hook, line and sinker.

    The government built NOTHING until business provided the jobs that paid the taxes that generated the revenue that the government used to hire people from the private sector to build the infrastructure. Obama's sense of history is as distorted as his sense of economics. Government did NOTHING until business paid them to do it.

    Obama twisted things completely around. He's got the horse pushing the cart. Even as a pre-teen farmboy, I knew that the horse belongs in front of the cart.

    Taxes are paid AFTER businesses make a profit - not before. Obama doesn't know that and I doubt that he cares. He's so intent on telling us that he is right and everybody else is wrong that he is past hearing what business people would tell him about creating jobs.

    The only thing that he has proven is that he is deaf to any idea that will work.

    Please spare us the rhetoric about him proposing anything to do with a budget. He doesnt' know what a budget is. The entire Senate turned him down his 2013 budget proposal - 99 to 0.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 6:57 p.m.

    >Mike Richards
    Let's count all the places you're wrong.

    >The government built NOTHING until business paid the taxes.

    Not true. Often government borrows money, uses that to build infrastructure, which leads to businesses growing, leading to tax revenues. It's not 'first this then that'. It's both sides working together. Synergy.

    >Obama's sense of history is as distorted as his sense of economics.
    You know nothing about his sense of history, or his grasp of economics. Judge not. . .

    >Taxes are paid AFTER businesses make a profit - not before. Obama doesn't know that.
    You don't know what he knows and what he doesn't know. You're not in his head. But his remarks clearly demonstrate his firm grasp of 'taxes' and 'profits.'

    >He's so intent on telling us that he is right and everybody else is wrong
    Something he has never said. I challenge you, when and where he said that.

    >he is past hearing what business people would tell him about creating jobs.
    His supporters and advisors include Bill Gates and Warren Buffet.

  • Mountanman Hayden, ID
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:05 p.m.

    Democrats are poor at math and sociology. It may take a village to support the public sector as long as the majority of the village is in the private sector and here is why! Suppose a public sector employee earns a salary of $50,000 per year and pays 15% if their salary in taxes= $7500. $50,000 salary received minus the taxes he paid leaves a shortfall of $42,500 the private sector has to make up with their taxes to afford the one public worker! Multiply that deficit times all the public employees and you can see mathematically why the private sector has to carry the burden for the public sector! Further understand that a private sector worker’s salary is not paid by the government so his salary necessarily has to come, again, from the private sector 100%. No charge to you Democrats for this lesson in civics and mathematics!

  • Mad Hatter Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:28 p.m.

    Quoting out of context or getting the quote entirely wrong is wrong! I sure every small businessperson benefits from the infrastructure of which Obama spoke. Let's get it right next time, OK?

    Even in the "good ol' days" wealth was not created entirely one one's own. One never gets there entirely on one's own, so lets acknowledge the help we get from others (in whatever form) and get to more substantive debate about how to fix the system.

    Since this is all about whether government has a role in benefitting our lives (or our businesses as appears to be the issue), let's recognize that we depend, more or less, on government in a variety of ways.

  • Ying Fah Provo, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 7:35 p.m.

    Mountanman Hayden, ID

    "Great letter Jan! Obama doesn't understand fundamental economics in that if the private sector isn't working, being successful and paying taxes, there will be no money to pay the public sector."

    No wonder progressives and conservatives can't talk with one another. Conservatives seem to live in an alternate universe.

    Think "symbiosis". The public sector and the private sector depend upone one another for a great number of things. Some here think it is a one-way deal, but reality appears to fog their thinking processes.

  • Mike Richards South Jordan, Utah
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:17 p.m.

    Eric,

    Get over Obama, He has hurt you. He has hurt me. He has hurt every American. He has spent $5 TRILLION dollars in three years. EVERY AMERICAN now owes an additional $16,666 just to put us back where we were when he took office. Our credit rating has been degraded meaning that we pay MORE for the interest on those fabled bonds that you said were the key to prosperity.

    Over 1,000,000 more people are out of work and not paying taxes since Obama took office.

    His highway to prosperity is a one-way road to bankruptcy.

    He has done nothing except tell us we're losers - when he can't get even ONE VOTE in the Senate for his budget. What happened to Harry Reid. Surely Harry would give him his vote. Even Harry Reid thinks that Obama doesn't know what a "$" sign means.

    No banker will lend you or me or the government money for a pipe-dream. They want equity. Equity comes from profits not from irresponsible promises. They want a guaranteed pay back. Obama can't even convince the Senate that he can pay anything back.

  • louie Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 8:53 p.m.

    I think the republicans are envious it was such a good speech.

  • Emajor Ogden, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 9:41 p.m.

    Where's the crystal ball, Mike? The one that tells you what would have happened if Obama hadn't implemented his policies? The one that proves his policies were harmful? Until you find it, all you have are the current numbers and the uneducated assumption that because of them the end result is worse. Even economists haven't been able to agree on the stimulus. Are you an economist? Can you prove to anyone that unemployment would be lower under McCain/Palin? No. You. Cannot.

  • Roland Kayser Cottonwood Heights, UT
    Aug. 5, 2012 10:32 p.m.

    To Mike Richards: People all over the world are lending us money for nothing. They are actually paying us to keep their money if you factor in an inflation rate of just 1.5%.

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 12:56 a.m.

    @alt134 - it's difficult to believe that you can't tell the difference between Obama's scolding lecture to successful businesspeople and Romney's acknowledgement that we already know there's a debt of gratitude to the builders of our country - and therefore successful businesspeople don't need the scolding lecture from Obama.

    I suspect you can already see the difference, but as with your beloved president, you're hoping most people are tremendously gullible.

  • J Thompson SPRINGVILLE, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 1:04 a.m.

    @Roland,

    Interest paid on the debt last year was $227 BILLION dollars. That equals over 30% of the cost of defense. That is a huge amount of money. There is absolutely no guarantee that anyone will continue to buy our debt at low interest rates. We are already heading towards unknown territory. With a credit rating heading downwards, spiraling annual deficits, millions of people out of work, decreasing tax revenue and increasing costs for social programs - not including Obamacare - no one in their right mind would continue to lend money to our government.

    If any of us went to our banker with a balance sheet like Obama's, we would be shown the door.

    @Emajor,

    Obama had to really work to mess things up to the point that not one Senator in the Democrat controlled Senate has any confidence in Obama's ability to lead us financially. When even his own party refuses to support his budget, you know that he is just blowing smoke when he tells us that the Republicans caused our woes.

  • omni scent taylorsville, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 9:30 a.m.

    Mountainman - thanks for the lesson in civics, mathand sociology; except I don't remember any liberals/democrats on here saying we don't need the private sector. Can you find that for me?
    Now, back to lessons in logic and reading comprehension.

  • HaHaHaHa Othello, WA
    Aug. 6, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    This letter may not be the best at laying out the case against BHO and his ridicules and foolish rhetoric, when he goes off teleprompter, but it does continue the the argument of what a deluded, lying, arrogant man he is. He is absolutely one of the 2 most pathetic presidents of my lifetime! The really astounding thing about it all, is how defensive so many leftists get over his idiocy, and how they all feel the need to come and rescue and save him from his inanity. The mental acrobats they have to go through to justify him is also truly astounding. The fact is we all know that every society has a "private" sector, even in a communist society. The issue is how you view government. BHO and all leftists are big government people, who think more government is better! That is irrefutable! The other fact is business (private sector) doesn't need government to survive, but government definitely needs the private sector to survive!

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 12:08 p.m.

    In the mind of a Marxist Socialist since birth (Barack Obama) there is no individual success in society - only collective success. This is the basis of Communism and their twisted thinking but is completely foreign to the American spirit since 1776. Barack made his infamous "you didn't built it " comments for one reason - to attempt to justify his soon to come tax increases on the middle class. Obamacare being ruled a HUGE tax by Judge Roberts forced Barack to to spin some new strategy which justified the reality of that Obamacare places on all of us - BIG tax increases. Of course team Obama didn't want to tie new taxes to Obamacare but the Supreme Court did it for them. The bottom line here - Obama is dishonest just like his first state of the Union address when a US Congressman called him a liar outright. People in America aren't used to Marxist thinking and Barack knows he has to bring them along slowly and in an inconspicuous way to avoid political damage prior to the election.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 12:42 p.m.

    @Mike Richards
    "How many have swallowed Obama's rhetoric, hook, line and sinker."

    Romney said it too.

    [I know that you recognize that a lot of people help you in a business...The people that provide roads, the fire, and the police. A lot of people help.]

    "Our credit rating has been degraded "

    As stated by the firm that downgraded us it was because 1. we didn't cut enough spending (kinda the Dems fault though Obama had a 4 trillion deficit reduction deal with 3 trillion in spending cuts on the table). 2. we didn't raise revenue (republicans fault) and 3. there was uncertainty with regard to whether or not we'd raise the debt ceiling (Bachmann et al's fault).

    @Mountanman
    Nobody said to shift to anything that isn't a majority-private sector economy. Way to throw a strawman argument out there.

  • atl134 Salt Lake City, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 12:48 p.m.

    @LetsDebate
    They were saying the same exact thing. I suspect you already know that but that would hinder the narrative you want to write and you feel stupid for having bought Romney's attack on Obama without realizing it was based on an out of context quote. Too bad the American people aren't as gullible and easy to fool as you were.

    @J Thompson
    The annual deficit will be cut in half if we do nothing January 1st. Naturally Republicans are scrambling to preserve all the tax cuts (except the Obama passed tax credits for the poor naturally...) and preserve all the defense spending. So why should I trust them to be any better on the deficit than Obama when Romney's plans actually score worse than doing nothing?

    @patriot
    "In the mind of a Marxist Socialist since birth (Barack Obama) there is no individual success in society - only collective success"

    Get over it. I've posted comments from Romney noting collective success in a campaign speech about businesses within a week of Obama's comments noted in this letter, and in a speech he gave to Olympic athletes. So I guess Romney's a commie to you?

  • LetsDebate PLEASANT GROVE, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    @alt134 - to suggest that Obama and Romney were saying the same thing is nothing short of highly dishonest by any rational person. While Obama was lecturing and scolding, Romney was saying "Yeah, we know that, and isn't it great."

    I'm curious - when Obama called Michael Phelps to congratulate him, do you suppose he launched into a diatribe about how Phelps didn't earn that, meaning his parents paid for swim lessons, and he benefited from a swimming tradition and infrastructure in our country that afforded him the great opportunity to receive the necessary training to become the best swimmer in the world?

    I suspect he didn't, because no matter how true it might be, it would clearly be an unnecessary lecture, and an insult to Phelps.

    America's successful businesspeople don't need his condescending lectures either.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 4:07 p.m.

    re:atl134

    Are you serious - really? For the record Mitt stated that Olympic athletes were successful because of the their parents and coaches which goes without saying. What Mitt did NOT say to these Athletes was "you did not win that medal - the government created the roads and bridges and provided the police and firefighters so you could get to practice so again - you didn't win that medal and you shouldn't think the winning of that medal had anything to do with your hard work - exceptional gifts and talents - sacrifice etc.... Obama's comments were insanely wrong and stupid and you know it so please stop trying to justify them. Recall that Barack said that there are lots of smart people out there and the only reason some have business success is because the government somehow made them successful. What is so moronic and dumb about this is the fact that most of these business owners had to OVERCOME government regulations and taxes in order to build a business and the government had NOTHING to do with them being successful. Obama's motivation for this dumb speech was to justify more taxes on the middle class.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 4:18 p.m.

    re:JoeBlow

    If you actually read the whole speech then you seem to have a problem with understanding intent. Did you listen to the whole speech too? I did both and it is painfully clear to even the casual observer Joe what Barack meant in his infamous "you didn't build that" comment. Barack was trying to convey the message that business owners were all indebted to the government because it was because of the government that they had ANY business success which is complete NONSENSE and completely insulting. Why do you think that millions of small business owners - who also listened to and read the whole ridiculous speech - were steaming mad at these insulting comments from Obama. OBama went out of his way to suggest that he was always struck by business owners who dared to think that it was because of their hard work - sacrifice - genius that they were able to build a successful business. In other words - hard work has nothing to do with success - it is mainly to do with the federal government and so ..... we all OWE the government even more taxes since they do so much for us which is nonsense.

  • JoeBlow Far East USA, SC
    Aug. 6, 2012 5:29 p.m.

    Patriot,

    In the future, I will not attempt to comprehend what I read. I will wait for you to tell me what it means, because clearly, your reading comprehension is spot on and mine is clearly flawed.

  • DSB Cedar Hills, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 5:42 p.m.

    To alt134

    You miss the very obvious differences in comparing Romney's and Obama's remarks.

    Romney is clearly giving praise to everyone, asking nothing in return. He's congratulating Olympic athletes and successful business owners, and giving praise to the systems they utilized to become successful. What he's saying is "Isn't this a great country - how blessed we ALL are!" It's a motivational speech, offensive only to those salivating for capitalism to be spanked.

    Obama's comments, in any context, are clearly intended to put business owners in their place - to warn them against taking too much credit, and to chastise them if they don't cheerfully fall in line with his stated objective of confiscating the "fair share" they owe to the government. It's demeaning and insulting, and his attempt to redefine his obvious message is effective only to the truly most gullible of our people. Successful business owners aren't buying it, but I suppose you think successful business owners are just "easy to fool."

    The difference couldn't be more stark, and only the most die-hard blind partisan could even suggest the intended meaning of their remarks are the same.

  • Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    Aug. 6, 2012 8:36 p.m.

    Patriot,
    First, millions of small business owners weren't steaming angry at Obama. A few people who only caught the Fox edited spin got angry. Second, your reading of the tone of the speech is, frankly, silly.

  • Rifleman Salt Lake City, Utah
    Aug. 7, 2012 6:22 a.m.

    Re: Eric Samuelsen Provo, UT
    "First, millions of small business owners weren't steaming angry at Obama."

    That's like saying the Chick-fil-A Appreciation Day was a failure. Business owners all across our nation will tell you that the federal government obstructs their ability to grow and hire the unemployed.

    The Federal Government offers money but it always comes with all kinds of strings attached, and business owners will tell you how stupid they are ..... if you care to listen.

  • county mom Monroe, UT
    Aug. 7, 2012 4:21 p.m.

    I don't know how many of you want to pay more taxes. I really do not care. I am pretty sure most of the comments made on this particular statement, were made by those who do not have a small business. Most people who support Obama all work for some huge unionized corporation or most likely the government itself. Small one or two man businesses are under seige by this government. We are paying over 70% of our income in taxes. We are unable to get loans. To small to ask for help, to much money turned to avoid the massive tax hike that is coming our way. This is not because of poor math or bad book keeping or even over spending. We are totally being sucked dry.

  • Getting it Right Sunnyvale, CA
    Aug. 9, 2012 11:32 a.m.

    Okay, I get it! I read the speech and I agree that businesses didn't build that... They are successful because of help from everyone.
    Here we go... My son just graduated top of his class because he studied hard. "Son, it wasn't really you. It was your teacher and your classmate that helped you. If it wasn't for your mom who gave birth to you, it won't be possible. The author of the book you read is also part of it. But it wasn't really you, sorry.
    How does that sound?

  • BRM Pleasant Grove, Utah
    Aug. 9, 2012 12:59 p.m.

    Government never built a road. They took money from you (taxpayer) and then hired someone in the private sector who knows how to build a road and they built it. Also, I have read all of Obama's speach. He is saying that because you received help from other people you should give more money to government. This is a ridiculous statement no matter how you try to agrue that it is taken out of context. We don't owe anybody. Someone built my house and I paid them. Someone built my car and I paid them. Someone built my road and I paid them. Someone taught me in schoool and I paid them. You could argue that someone else paid for my education (it was not government, it was taxpayers). I paid later for someone elses education.