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Mike Sorensen: Mike Sorensen: Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU

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  • Eddie Would Go FPO, AE
    July 15, 2012 8:04 p.m.

    I'm starting to think that the Utes should have committed to playing the Cougars annually, just so we don't have to keep reading sports writers whine about the two-year break from the rivalry.

    Pleas Deseret News, if anyone else on staff wants to put their two cents in on the subject, please do us all a favor and get it over with in the next 24 hours. Then let's move on, shall we?

  • GoRed WEST VALLEY CITY, UT
    July 15, 2012 8:35 p.m.

    I agree, Eddie. Before this article gets commented on by the usual (BYU) suspects, let me point out that Utah isn't afraid to schedule the Cougs. But being in a solid BCS conference is light years harder than being in the MWC, where by just showing up, you could be guaranteed at least 5 wins. There is no day off in the PAC 12, as we saw in the Colorado game (a game that BYU fans hang their hats on, considering their own team got trounced by the Utes at home by 44).

    And BYU fans, before we hear about scheduling Northern Colorado, please explain Idaho, San Jose State, Hawaii, Weber State, and New Mexico State.

  • Mesa Coug Phoenix, AZ
    July 15, 2012 9:01 p.m.

    I agree. Let's move on to something else. All the arguments have been made on both sides. Both schools will be fine without the game.

  • Howard S. Taylorsville, UT
    July 15, 2012 9:08 p.m.

    Afraid of losing to the Cougars?

    Would it be better if Dr. Hill just said that he is tired of the hyper animosity and hostility surrounding the game and he just thinks it's time for a time-out to cool things down for the good of the rivalry?

    Would it be better if Dr. Hill just said that the doesn't like BYU and doesn't want to see them on his field ever again?

    I don't know what it is... maybe it's just as Dr. Hill said that he thinks Texas and Florida recruits are more interested in playing Michigan than BYU.

    But whatever it is, Dr. Hill has offered a respectful way out for BYU (...they are a tough game...), yet BYU fans and the media simply refuse to take the graceful way out and move on.

    The Cougar Nation and its fawning media should show some dignity... acting like spoiled hissy-fit children is not likely to endear you to Dr. Hill has he decides if the time-out should continue beyond '06.

  • tdlawton Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 15, 2012 9:28 p.m.

    Here is a deal for BYU supporters, on the street or in the press.

    Pick some subjective measure, like the Sagarin rankings or some other (relatively) respected system and compare the SOS (Strength-of-Schedule) of Independent BYU vs. Pac-12 Utah. If and when BYU has a tougher schedule they can call Utah "chicken."

    Until then just shut up already.

    FTR: last year Utah SOS rank #49 BYU SOS rank #90 (according to Sagarin).

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 15, 2012 9:29 p.m.

    Exactly how is BYu gonna beat Utah this year and next.......throw spit wads or put the Ebola virus in the Ute's Gatorade jug? They stand ZERO chance against a stacked, deep, speedy Utah squad, period the end! Plus, Utah's recruiting is twice as good........the future for BYu is bleak at best.

  • alternate Salt Lake City, UT
    July 15, 2012 9:56 p.m.

    Dr. Hill should just come and say, we want to play a games we know we can win for our remaining games in 2014 and 15. But we can't say that if we play BYU. Nothing more, nothing less. Be honest. All the talk around destroys creditability.

    There are other big reasons for Utah to not play BYU anymore but they to do apply to winning or losing.

    One would be that it may eliminate all the hate that seems to be growing between the fans of both schools. It may also eliminate the need for commentor's from both schools to alway intentionally mock the other school by writing cute little name slur's or openly call each other names.

    After all, honesty is the best policy and name calling should end upon leaving elementary school.

  • romorg PROVO, UT
    July 15, 2012 10:46 p.m.

    @GoRed and all other Utes that make disparaging comments about the WAC and MWC

    You say there is no day off in the PAC-12 (like there was in the MWC).

    Explain to me when exactly Utah could just get a win for showing up in the MWC. I seem to remember a 0-27 loss to UNLV. That would be a team that finished 2-10.

    How about that loss to Wyoming in 2006?

    Perhaps you remember losing to UNM 5 out of 7 years or 5 years in a row to CSU?

    Do you remember those three straight you lost to AFA?

    And then there were the two losses to SDSU when they were 0-5 and 2-4.

    So, tell me again who it was in the MWC you could just show up against.

    You were a member of the WAC for 36 years and NEVER won an outright title. BYU won 13 and shared 6 more.

    You were a member of the MWC for 12 years and won 3 outright titles while sharing 1. BYU..same.

    Congrats on your membership in the PAC-12. Just don't act like you're too good for your former competition.

  • Real Bass Idaho Falls, ID
    July 15, 2012 10:53 p.m.

    This writer is a real tool and the u is the PAC doormat. BYU Should just close the door permanently on the school up north.

  • Yerffoegn Maricopa, Az
    July 15, 2012 11:11 p.m.

    We have all weighed in. What's done is done. It's time to play football. Time to put a button kicking on the Ute's, and send them packing in style. In front Chris Hill's luxery box.

  • Ernest T. Bass Bountiful, UT
    July 16, 2012 7:26 a.m.

    Utah could never beat byu. We just beat ourselves.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 16, 2012 8:08 a.m.

    gored

    "Before this article gets commented on by the usual (BYU) suspects, let me point out that Utah isn't afraid to schedule the Cougs."

    lol

    The Utes absolutely are AFRAID of LOSING to the Cougars or the Utes would have already locked in the Cougars home-and-home for the next 20 years.

    bottom line:

    Hill said so himself that he didn't think the Utes were good enough to play BYU and Michigan in the same year, in other words, he was worried that the Utes could LOSE to both BYU and Michigan in the same year, possibly killing Utah's chances of going to a bowl if the Utes finished with another losing record in the PAC 12, which is looking more and more like a very likely occurance most years.

    btw,

    Hill isn't dumb enough to even think that the Utes have the clout to beg for a two-for-one from ANY Class-A opponent.

  • IdaUte GARDEN CITY, ID
    July 16, 2012 8:26 a.m.

    Utah should look to schedule 2 for 1 arrangements for as many out of confrence games as they can, if they want to play us 2 for 1 then lets do it. Their trouble putting together a 13 game schedule is not Chris Hill's issue and he shouldn't be expected to do ANYTHING that is not in the best interest of our team. I am 100% confident he is doing just that.

    GO UTES!!!!

  • TrueBlue Orem, UT
    July 16, 2012 8:34 a.m.

    Mike Sorensen: "Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU"

    That's the core of the dilemma facing Utah.

    Despite the pretended "superiority" of Hill and Whittingham and Utah fans, even though there have been a couple of lopsided games during the Bronco/Kyle era, FIVE of the SEVEN games (72%) have been decided by a touchdown or less in the closing minutes or in overtime.

    The Utes know that they are just as likely to lose to BYU as they are to Michigan.

    The Utes may act tough, but as Hill said, the reality is the Utes aren't good enough to play BYU and Michigan in the same season.

  • Bleed Crimson Sandy, Utah
    July 16, 2012 8:53 a.m.

    @ Mike Sorenson

    "Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU"

    What makes you think they don't?

    NEWSFLASH! Call Bronco and have him read your article.

  • ciscodavey Moab, UT
    July 16, 2012 8:56 a.m.

    Its not that Utah is scared of BYU at all, this is about creating a smart schedule. Beating BYU does nothing while losing can ruin a national title or bowl chance. For example lets say you're walking down the street and some drunk guy picks a fight with you. Most sensible people would walk away not because they are scared of losing the fight but because there is nothing to gain but quite a lot to lose if it became a legal issue. Thats the same thought process, beating independent BYU does nothing for voters but losing to them looks terrible.

  • xert Santa Monica, CA
    July 16, 2012 9:07 a.m.

    I've yet to hear anyone discuss the ramifications of playing Michigan over the next two years (as compared to playing BYU) and how that plays out in the minds of the recruits that Utah and BYU both covet. It is clear that the Utah game should weigh heavily in the minds of young kids who like both schools. If Utah's schedule offers something pretty to replace not playing against BYU, what does BYU offer in place of not playing at packed houses against the mighty Utes in front of friends and family? A late night weekday ESPN game?

  • BlameItOnTheOfficials Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2012 9:14 a.m.

    Put aside all the boasting and either team could win on any given year.. that's what made this rivalry so heated and fun. To push it aside is to ignore what the fans want. Chris Hill should remember that the game is played for the fans. It's all going to just be meaningless talk if they don't schedule the games again after this two year hiatus is over. As a Ute fan I'm saddened and disheartened by Chris Hill's decision.

  • NORCALUTE MoTown, CA
    July 16, 2012 9:44 a.m.

    The bottom line is that the Utes don't need BYu...the Ute's make over $1million a game in teh PAC12...if they play BYu, the bring in $300K...it's all about money folks and the Ute's have it and the y does not. In other words: The Utes grew up and went to college, the y is still in high school trying to figure out what day it is.

    Can't wait 'till the our Utes are playing in the Rose Bowl...Go Utes! Man, it's great to be U alumni!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 16, 2012 9:55 a.m.

    @gored

    There were no "days off" for utah in the mwc either considering they lost to every single bottom feeder in that conference during whittigham's tenure. Remember new mexico? Howzabout wyoming? san diego st? colorado st? And oh yes I'm sure you remember unlv. utah's proven it has a propensity to lose to very bad teams, and in very embarrassing fashion. So I have to agree with you on this, for utah there are no "days off", ever, against anybody.

    LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 16, 2012 9:59 a.m.

    @norcalute

    "the Ute's make over $1million a game in teh PAC12...if they play BYu, the bring in $300K.."

    So how does that work? How is it that a pac12 game brings them a million but a BYU game only 300K?

    You don't even know what you are talking about.

    LOL!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 16, 2012 10:01 a.m.

    Oh and norcalute....BYU's athletic budget and revenues still exceeds utah's by a substantial margin and the absolute best the ute's can hope for is that several years from now when they finally are accepted as a full fledged pac12 member and get a full payout is that they will perhaps equal BYU's revenues.

    LOL!

  • Black Knight American Fork, UT
    July 16, 2012 10:08 a.m.

    NORCALUTE
    The Utes will play in the Rose Bowl this season---when they are the visiting team vs. UCLA.
    The only times that the Utes will ever play in the Rose Bowl will be their games at UCLA.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 16, 2012 10:20 a.m.

    "Beating BYU does nothing while losing can ruin a national title or bowl chance."

    Don't kid yourself.

    Beating a perennial Top 25 team like BYU does a whole lot more for Utah on a national scale than beating 4-win teams WSU, OSU, Ariz, and Colorado - oh wait, U couldn't even do that.

    LOL at your national title talk.

    The Utes aren't even close to competing for a PAC 12 South Division title, let alone a national title, and as far as bowl chances, if you can't even beat all of your PAC 12 opponents with losing records, you deserve what you get as far as bowl or no bowl.

    If you're not good enough to beat BYU, U have NO CHANCE of playing in the Rose Bowl or competing for a national title - you're no longer in the MWC where all you have to do to get into a BcS bowl is beat TCU and BYU.

    Bottom line, there's no good excuse for not playing BYU except for not being good enough to expect to beat BYU.

  • Rockwell Baltimore, MD
    July 16, 2012 10:30 a.m.

    "The bottom line is that the Utes don't need BYU.. the Ute's make over $1million a game in teh[sic] PAC12...if they play BYU, the bring in $300K"

    Silly argument, for several reasons.

    - The Utes are already maxed out on the number of PAC 12 teams they can play, so it's not an either/or decision.

    - Every other game is played in RES and there are only handful of teams that could possibly generate more television revenue, IF Utah could schedule them - and NONE would draw larger crowds

    - What authoritative source are you citing for your revenue estimates - guaranteed, BYU pays ALOT more than $300k to teams like Utah.

  • BlueHusky Mission Viejo, CA
    July 16, 2012 10:45 a.m.

    Yawn. Yet another article about the "rivalry". BYU has games to play and win. Utah is one of them this year. Lets win it. Enough of this rivalry whining. Move on.

    Frankly, playing Boise, ND, Ga Tech, Texas, et al. are far more interesting than another game with a PAC12 also ran. Oh wait, BYU plays 3 PAC12 also-rans this year. Yay! Plus Boise, ND, and Ga Tech.

    We're Independent! Let's enjoy it. Bowl games are automatic for BYU, so lets just win what's on our plate and let the rest fall into place. Who knows, maybe we'll be playing Utah in the Poinsettia bowl this year ... They won't be playing in the Rose Bowl, that's for sure.

  • Riddles in the Dark Olympus Cove, Utah
    July 16, 2012 10:46 a.m.

    Duckhunter

    Have to agree; Utah hasn't had any "days off" since the leather helmet era.

    Kyle lost to EVERY MWC bottom dweller, including 10-loss UNLV, and he began his PAC 12 tenure losing to 10-loss Colorado right out of the gate and barely beat 4-win WSU in OT.

    Any coach that's already lost TWO games to 10-loss teams in only 7 years of coaching, is fully capable of losing to ANYBODY.

    BYU has only had TWO losses to 10-loss teams IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY, the last such loss coming over 25 years ago. Bronco is UNDEFEATED against the MWC bottom dwellers that Kyle lost to.

  • Oatmeal Woods Cross, UT
    July 16, 2012 10:49 a.m.

    Why is it that every football article has a majority of comments from the nutcase fans from both the U and Y? I can't count how many times I've heard Y fans claiming the U will never see a Rose Bowl and U fans claiming that the Y will never achieve any success in college football again. Both statements (and many others) are complete and utter nonsense. Both sides are becoming boringly consistent in their silly animosity.

    As a Utahn and a BYU alum, I've loved watching the success of two great football programs. I enjoyed the rivalry game, because ANYTHING could happen. Who did I cheer for? The underdog. I have met coaches for both teams and they are men of integrity. I have known players on both teams and have enjoyed following these kids as they developed. I don't think anyone with a lick of sense and integrity and real self-esteem would trash the opposing team. It is a truly pathetic act to do so.

  • Love Me Some Me Chandler, AZ
    July 16, 2012 10:52 a.m.

    Utah-Hawaii Alum

    "They stand ZERO chance against a stacked, deep, speedy Utah squad, period the end! Plus, Utah's recruiting is twice as good........the future for BYu is bleak at best."

    Thanks for that non-biased objective assessment of the game this year. Expect to hear from the ESPN College Game Day staff soon with a job offer.

  • Henry Drummond San Jose, CA
    July 16, 2012 10:53 a.m.

    Is BYU afraid to play Utah State?

    Ten years ago, BYU ended a rivalry with the Aggies that went back almost as far as the BYU/Utah rivalry (1922). During one four-year stretch they played Utah State only once - a "one and done" in Provo. Today Utah State must agree to a "Two for One" (play twice in Provo for one trip to Logan), to play BYU. Come on guys. If you are going to do things like, you shouldn't complain if Utah decides you need to take a back seat to their scheduling. What goes around comes around folks.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 16, 2012 10:54 a.m.

    Duckhunter
    Highland, UT
    Oh and norcalute....BYU's athletic budget and revenues still exceeds utah's by a substantial margin and the absolute best the ute's can hope for is that several years from now when they finally are accepted as a full fledged pac12 member and get a full payout is that they will perhaps equal BYU's revenues.

    LOL!

    ____________

    BYU is 6-9 all time against San Jose St.

    LOL!

  • SoonerUte Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2012 11:24 a.m.

    DNews Editor discussing Mike Sorensen's column this week:
    "I don't know Mike, it looks a little thin. Jazz news. Golf news. I tell you what -- add a paragraph about the BYU-Utah rivalry. Just some blah, blah, blah, Utah is afraid kind of stuff. That will get some page hits and a ton of comments. This horse ain't dead yet!"

    I'm surprised it hasn't spread to other departments:
    "St George flood vicitims talk about the rivalry."
    "Oil prices rise due to rivalry hiatus."
    "Who will be the next American Idol judges, and their views on The Holy War."

  • Uteanymous Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 16, 2012 11:48 a.m.

    Henry Drummond

    "Is BYU afraid to play Utah State?"

    Simple answer: NO!

    But, your question has already been addressed and you already know the answer so why repeat the question?

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 16, 2012 11:56 a.m.

    WACpaddled

    "BYU is 6-9 all time against San Jose St."

    Why are you so fixated on a stat that is so utterly irrelevant?

    BYU and Utah are BOTH 6-1 versus San Jose St. since the WAC was created in 1962, and Utah's loss was more recent.

    In a stat that is actually revelant:

    Utah is 0-7 all time against Washington.
    BYU is 4-4 all time against Washington.

    BYU beat Washington in 2010.
    Utah lost to Washington, AGAIN, in 2011.

    LOL!

    ----------

    as far as embarrassing irrelevant stats

    Utah is 1-6 all time against the Village People (the SLC YMCA)

    LOL!

  • MLH SALT LAKE CITY, UT
    July 16, 2012 12:13 p.m.

    romorg

    You are talking about two teams that are totally different than 20-30 years ago. Go buy yourself a new shirt that isn't byu blue but the new color Utah State blue get yourself into the NOW and don't rate both programs like they are the same. Utah is a far superior football program now, same with duckman two totally different programs now Utah has been in the PAC 1 year, byu indy 1 year in football, the programs are heading in two different directions.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 16, 2012 12:17 p.m.

    After reading a number of recent articles and an even larger number of posts, I have come to these conclusions:
    -Yep, Utah is really scared to play BYU
    -Utah owes BYU a debt and should have cancelling the rivalry for 2 years
    -All of the Utah wins in the last few years have been flukes
    -Winning 7 of the last 10 doesn't mean anything, and the comment about the streak could be 15 straight is just pure hogwash
    -The PAC 12 teams are no better than the MWC competion
    -Playing a very soft schedule to get 10 wins and playing late night on ESPN is the best option

    There - I have agreed with all of your comments. Now maybe we won't have any more of these articles with the same posts over and over and over and over and over and over again.

    Time to move on.

  • patriot Cedar Hills, UT
    July 16, 2012 12:38 p.m.

    during the period from the 70's through about 2000 BYU was by far the dominant team. The program and players as well as the coaches were just much better than Utah. Everything started to change after year 2000. Now I feel it has reversed - Utah has a much better program than the Y - better players, better coaches and better recruiting. The Y - once the big brother - has now become the little brother wanting some day to make it like big brother has. The U has 2 BCS wins and is in the Pac 12 conference. Enough said. The only bowl game the Y has which could be considered big time was the 1996 cotton bowl win over Kansas State. I agree with the article - the U should expect to win against the Y. It would be an upset for the Y to win anymore. Academically - the U has the medical school and is seen better academically overall I think. This is what the PAC 12 chancellors stated when picking the U over the Y. The Y's business school is better but the u has been making big strides there as well.

  • govt rocks Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2012 12:44 p.m.

    Riddles in the park, go look at BYU's results from 2004. Scroll down to BYU's own little game against UNLV and tell me how that went? By the way, UNLV won 2 games that year. One of them was against BYU. And it has absolutely no bearing on how their team will perform this year. The best thing about college football is that every year is different and no team is exactly how they were the year before. Any argument about who was worse when and which loss was the worse is pointless because it means absolutely nothing right now. The bottom line is that every program has good and bad years and BYU and Utah have some pretty bad losses throughout history.

    I for one am sick of the fans behavior on both sides and have to agree with BYU Coach Mendenhall, if the fans can't improve their behavior, maybe the game shouldn't be played. But anyone, including Chris Hill, who thinks Utah is afraid to play BYU is a fool.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 16, 2012 12:50 p.m.

    "Mike Sorensen: Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU"

    The operative word is is "act".

    The Utes don't even believe their own propaganda so their actions can't match their words.

    They "say" that beating BYU is no problem, but "act" according to what they really believe - that they're scared of losing to BYU - so they refuse to play BYU in 2014 and 2015 and won't commit to playing after 2016.

    Actions, as they say, speak louder than words.

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 16, 2012 12:56 p.m.

    Solomon Levi and other BYU fans:

    How does it feel to be fed the same repetitive stats? You wrote the book on it.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    July 16, 2012 1:23 p.m.

    utes will loose. remember until recently it wasn't a contest.

  • mussingaround Palo Alto, CA
    July 16, 2012 1:29 p.m.

    govt rocks

    "go look at BYU's results from 2004. Scroll down to BYU's own little game against UNLV and tell me how that went? By the way, UNLV won 2 games that year."

    You do realize, don't you, that BYU 2004 was the team that finally got Gary Crowton fired?
    One of the worst BYU teams of the last six decades lost to UNLV by four points, 20-24.

    One of the better Utah teams, a team that was comprised mostly of players that won the Sugar Bowl the next season, was SHUTOUT by UNLV 0-27. By the way, UNLV won 2 games that year.

    The factor you're overlooking is coaching matters and Kyle has a history of losing to bad teams, while Bronco does not.

    -----------

    patriot

    The PAC chancellors had to come up with a non-religious excuse for picking Utah over BYU, but it's funny how being a "Research" university wasn't even mentioned when the PAC 10 - Big 12 merger was being discussed. Academically, Utah's undergraduate programs lag well behind BYU's undergraduate programs, as do several other PAC 12 schools.

  • ute alumni Tengoku, UT
    July 16, 2012 1:33 p.m.

    patriot, utah is catching up academically, really? Just where does your info come from?

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2012 1:34 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "BYU's athletic budget and revenues still exceeds utah's by a substantial margin."

    Do you know what the Indy-WACers athletic budget is? Because I'm thinking you DON'T! And if you DON'T, how would you know if it still exceeded Utah's.

    If you don't report back here with a verifiable source that compares Utah's with the "perfection" questers, than you would be tacitly admitting that you frantically and emotionally made that up, and all of us Utah fans will be "LOL"ing at you.

    So let's see it Duck.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 16, 2012 1:40 p.m.

    WACPaddled

    "How does it feel to be fed the same repetitive stats?"

    You mean like 54-10, 2 BcS bowls, Utah's lifetime record versus BYU, oh, and this golden oldie, 34-31, ad nauseum?

    Pot meet kettle.

    Your problem is when it comes to comparing national awards stats, Utah's cupboard is completely bare, so you're forced to find trivial stats from bygone eras to make yourself feel good.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2012 1:44 p.m.

    Riddles in the Dark:

    "Bronco is UNDEFEATED against the MWC bottom dwellers that Kyle lost to."

    Haha! While Utah fans had been gauging our program by how well we stacked up vs. schools in BCS conferences (where we were the winningest non-AQ team in the country), how well we performed in the postseason (where we were the winningest FBS team in the country among teams with greater than 10 bowl games played), and how well we did in BCS bowl games (where we are tied with Oregon with the 2nd most BCS bowl trophies in the Pac-12)....

    ...our little brothers have been gauging the success of THEIR program by how well they've matched up vs. the bottom dwellers of the MWC. Is it any wonder why our programs are headed off in opposite directions? No wonder you guys decided to go back to the WAC.

  • Barnbug1 SPANISH FORK, UT
    July 16, 2012 1:53 p.m.

    @NORCALUTE

    ...it's all about the money folks,and the Utes have it and the Y does not. What a clueless
    statement. Utah NEEDS the money, BYU doesn't.

    p.s. Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports program is a joke. (their words not mine)

  • bbj1979 Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2012 2:06 p.m.

    Why would the Utes have any explaining to do if their third non-conference game was a UCF or SMU? After all, BYU had seven of their 10 wins last year to patsy WAC and C-USA teams. BYU fans should be more than familiar with taking a break from the tough teams once in a while.

  • phoenix Gilbert, AZ
    July 16, 2012 2:31 p.m.

    Naval Vet

    "we were the winningest non-AQ team in the country" - versus BcS teams only

    Myopic Utah fans look only at Utah's wins, but completely ignore Utah's losses.

    LOSSES are the difference between Bronco having FIVE 10-win seasons and Kyle only having THREE, after having played the exact same number of games during the past seven seasons.

    And the same reason Bronco has FIVE Top 25 Finishes (including THREE Top 15 Finishes), while Kyle only has THREE Top 25 Finishes (including only ONE Top 15 Finish).

    Our little brothers judge seasons by one or two games (like Utah's win over BYU last season); legacy programs judge seasons by overall results (like final Top 25 Ranking).

    ----------

    bbj1979

    The Utes don't have to explain anything; their actions speak for themselves.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 16, 2012 2:35 p.m.

    Barnbug1:

    "Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports program is a joke."

    And your point is....what? That the Utes DIDN'T win 8-games last year? That they DIDN'T beat all their O.O.C. opponents? That they LOST to Ga. Tech in the Sun Bowl? Or maybe your point is that your USC fan relatives don't know that beating all ones O.O.C. opponents, and winning one's bowl game all BOLSTER the Pac-12's national profile.

    P.S.: I happen to have some relatives in Los Angeles and San Diego. And they do NOT think Utah is a joke. Does that mean you're going to change your mind about Utah Football? Or does it mean you think the opinions of my relatives are as irrelevant as I think of the opinions of yours.

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    July 16, 2012 3:20 p.m.

    Barnbug1 said: "Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports program is a joke."

    Naval Vet said: "And your point is...?"

    Probably that the ONLY fans who are "impressed" with Utah's 8th place finish in the PAC 12 are delusional Utah fans.

    SoCal fans look at:

    8th in football
    11th in basketball
    last or next to last in every other men's sport
    losing records in every men's sport

    and wonder,

    Why exactly did Scott invite these over-stuffed bottom feeders to our conference?

    Instead of trying, and failing, to convince your big brothers that you belong, maybe you should be trying to convince the other members of the PAC 12 that you belong.

    It's obvious that BYU fans are seeing the exact same conference ineptitude that members of the PAC 12 are seeing, and it's not pretty.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 16, 2012 3:24 p.m.

    @romorg

    GoRed and all other Utes that make disparaging comments about the WAC and MWC

    You say there is no day off in the PAC-12 (like there was in the MWC).

    Explain to me when exactly Utah could just get a win for showing up in the MWC. I seem to remember a 0-27 loss to UNLV. That would be a team that finished 2-10.

    So, tell me again who it was in the MWC you could just show up against.

    ---------------

    The UNLV game was the 4th game in 2007, when Kyle was just getting his players into the program.

    Please do tell us which mid-major team Utah lost to since then that had a losing record.

    2008: 13-0
    2009: 10-3 (#6 TCU and #12 @BYU)
    2010: 10-3 (#2 TCU and #9 Boise)
    2011: 8-5 (5 loses to BCS teams)

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 16, 2012 3:30 p.m.

    Barnbug1:

    "Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports program is a joke."

    ----------

    That's funny considering that the USC teamed rushed the field after barley winning a Utah team stacked with MWC talent.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 16, 2012 3:33 p.m.

    Ah naval lint, that really got your blood boiling didn't it. Being a private university you know BYU doesn't release those figures to the public although utah, being a poor state run school has to. The most recent report I could find for utah was a budget of about 26mil 3 years ago. Let's give them the benefit of the doubt and say they've increase those revenues to maybe about 30mil since that time.

    BYU on the otherhand has an ESTIMATED budget of about 43mil 3 years ago. I googled it and found it on line but that is actually very close to what I had been told by someone that knows. Whether you want to believe it or not is of no consequence to me, your angst changes nothing. LOL!

    But what should be even easier for you to find if you simply google it is a Dnews article from February of this year reporting BYU showing an athletic department PROFIT of approximately 5.5mil and utah having an athletic department deficit of near the same amount.

    LOL! at you.

  • motorbike Cottonwood Heights, UT
    July 16, 2012 4:08 p.m.

    This is all getting very old.

    One thing worth mentioning to my fellow Ute fans ... quit talking like Utah is just going to show up and put a beat down on BYU this year. It's feeling eerily similar to what BYU fans were saying to us on these threads at this time last year. And yes, I'm a touch superstitious... bad things happen when we get ahead of ourselves.

  • ute4ever West Jordan, UT
    July 16, 2012 4:11 p.m.

    I'm a Ute fan. There are 2 reasons for this. First, Utah desperately needs to maintain a strong image in their first years in the PAC12. This is key to recruiting against PAC12 teams. If Utah, who has a better chance of losing to opponents like Idaho or Idaho State, loses to Michigan (possible) and BYU in non conference games, then has to run the guantlet of a PAC12 schedule...they are likely to end with a 6,7, or maybe 8 win season. That doesn't impress recruits. If they finish with an 8, 9, or 10 win season...now they are accomplishing things. I think they need to finish well, and high in the final rankings (see: BYU for ways to finish highly ranked without beating anyone good) to help recruiting. Second, the BYU game is physically demanding. Players take cheap shots. The emotional toll is much worse. Utah doesn't need that the week before USC, Washington, etc. Hopefully a couple year break will cool this a little bit.

  • PAC man Anaheim, CA
    July 16, 2012 4:41 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Please do tell us which mid-major team Utah lost to since then that had a losing record."

    So that's laughable excuse for Utah's losses from now on - Utah didn't lose to a "mid-major" programs with losing record since you'll only be playing POSSIBLY ONLY ONE such program from now on.

    Earth to Uteology, U may not have considered 3-10 Colorado to be a "mid-major" calibre team, but the rest of the country clearly sees the Buffs for what they were, the 107th WORST team in the country.

    You need to take of those "bcs" tinted goggles; it'll help you see more clearly that having a "bcs" label or not having a "bcs" label has absolutely no bearing on whether a team is great or terrible.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 16, 2012 5:22 p.m.

    Oh and naval "profit" means BYU brings in more revenue than needed, whatever the amount is, "deficit" means utah does not bring in waht's needed, whatever the amount is, and must be subsidized with other university funds. And before you go off half cocked about utah' football program being in the black, yes we know, everyones football progam runs in the black, the issue is whether or not the football program brings in enough to run in the black and mostly pay for all of the other sports. utah's clearly doesn't while BYU's clearly does. Of course I'm sure BYU makes substantially more from its basketball team than utah does as well so that helps BYU and is probably no more than a break even deal for utah.

    But of course that is the difference between winning a few national championships this year, like BYU did, and being at the top of your conference in virtually every sport, like BYU did, and being a top 25 ranked football team, like BYU was, and going to the ncaa, like BYU did, and being at the bottom of your conference in just about everything, like utah did.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 16, 2012 5:45 p.m.

    Uteology

    "The UNLV game was the 4th game in 2007, when Kyle was just getting his players into the program. Please do tell us which mid-major team Utah lost to since then that had a losing record."

    Even for you, that's gotta be some of the most pathetically weak spin ever posted on this blog.

    THREE YEARS into his head coaching tenure at Utah, the same year that Bronco finished 11-2, #14/#15 after having to start from scratch with the mess Gary Crowton left behind, you're blaming a 0-27 shutout loss to 2-10 UNLV on it being the 4th game of the season and Kyle "just getting his players into the program"???

    Give me a break!

    Besides Utah, the ONLY other team UNLV beat in 2007 was Utah State, which also finished 2-10!

    Didn't Utah STOMP UCLA 44-6 the week before. So how was it Utah was able to destroy a great "bcs" team in week 3, then get SHUTOUT by a pathetic MWC team in week 4?

    10-loss teams are 10-loss teams; whether they're in a "power" conference or a "mid-major" conference.

  • CO Ute PARKER, CO
    July 16, 2012 6:00 p.m.

    @ patriot

    You make some good arguments but I would offer one correction. BYU did not dominate from the 70's until the year 2000. While the Y did win the first 3 games in the 90's; Utah won 5 of the next 7 played in that decade.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    July 16, 2012 6:28 p.m.

    @PACman "Earth to Uteology, U may not have considered 3-10 Colorado to be a "mid-major" calibre team, but the rest of the country clearly sees the Buffs for what they were, the 107th WORST team in the country."

    Earth to PACman the team everybody see's as the 107th worst team in the country beat the U which beat the Y by 44 on their home feild. So what exactly is your point? You somehow try to put the U down by losing to colorado wouldnt that mean losing to the U by 44 at home would make your team look even worse?

    Several Y fan's on this board want to comment how bronco is unbeaten against bottom dwellers. So what who cares nobody but a Y fan would even think about that. Logical people want to know what a team does against tough competition. Maybe if bronco worried more about beating good teams instead of the bad one's. They would actually get some quality wins like kyle has!

  • Barnbug1 SPANISH FORK, UT
    July 16, 2012 6:34 p.m.

    Naval Vet:

    My point was nothing. That's just what they said. The thing I did notice was that they said
    SPORTS PROGRAM, not football team. I think that maybe you get caught up with firing off replies to just about everything that's posted, you don't read them too well. I'd suggest stepping away from the old keyboard for a few hours a day, get the blood pumpin again, then get after it like never before.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 16, 2012 11:18 p.m.

    2B

    Any fan with even the slightest amount of common sense understands that the circular logic of comparative scores is a meaningless exercise.

    2007 is perfect example - in chronological order:

    BYU loses at UCLA 17-27
    Utah beats UCLA 44-6

    Early season conclusion - Utah is 48 points better than BYU

    Utah loses at UNLV 0-27
    BYU beats UNLV at UNLV 24-14

    Mid-season conclusion - BYU is 37 points better than Utah

    BYU beats Utah 17-10
    BYU beats UCLA in the Las Vegas Bowl 17-16

    Final Season Conclusion:

    BYU finished 11-2, #14/#15, undefeated in the MWC
    Utah finished 9-4, unranked, with that humiliating loss to UNLV remembered long after the big win over UCLA has been forgotten.

    Single game comparisons, even head-to-head results, are meaningless when judging overall results.

    Logical fans understand that who you don't lose to is just as important has who you beat.

    Bronco understands this, which is why Bronco has FIVE Top 25 finishes.

    Kyle is still learning, which is why Kyle only has three.

  • Solomon Levi Alpine, UT
    July 16, 2012 11:39 p.m.

    CO Ute

    Why do Utah fans have to parse results to distort reality?

    During the decade of the 90's:

    BYU won 3
    Utah won 3
    Then they traded wins the rest of the decade

    Final Result:
    BYU 5
    Utah 5

    The BIG difference, however was in overall results:

    BYU beat #1-ranked defending national champion Miami
    Ty Detmer won the Heisman Trophy, Sammy Baugh Trophy (nation's best passer) and Davey O'Brien Award (nation's best quarterback) (twice)
    Steve Sarkisian won the Sammy Baugh Trophy

    BYU won the Cotton Bowl

    Top 25 Finishes
    BYU 4 - #22/#17, #23/#23, #18/#10, #5/#5
    Utah 1 - #10/#8

    Conference Championships
    BYU 7
    Utah 2

    Overall Record
    BYU 86-39 (69%)
    Utah 71-46 (61%)

    Utah may have tied BYU head-to-head, but BYU dominated Utah in overall achievements - it wasn't even close.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 16, 2012 11:48 p.m.

    There is a huge difference between losing to Colorado and UNLV.

    2007:
    #120 UNLV 2-10 played the #58 SOS in the country.

    2009:
    #129 Washington 0-12 played the #1 SOS in the nation.

    2011:
    #103 Mississippi 2-10 played the #9 SOS in the country.
    #107 Colorado 3-9 played the #21 SOS in the country.

    Colorado is a mid-major program as much as Mississippi and Washington are, both teams that BYU beat by 1 point each -- Broncos is 10-11 vs BCS teams (Kyle 17-10).

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 17, 2012 12:05 a.m.

    @Solomon Levi

    Kyle has a 13-0 undefeated team with wins over #6, #7, #18, #25.

    Bronco has his "Quest" t-shirts.

    Losing to (2-10) UNLV was humiliating in 2007 but the undefeated 2008 Ute team more than made up for it.

  • 17-14 Hurts Don't It? Springville, UT
    July 17, 2012 8:03 a.m.

    Uteology

    All the spin in the world will not change the fact that your Utes lost to a 10 loss team, a team that had not won a road game in four years, in your own stadium, on national tv and in doing so lost its golden greased opportunity to win the south division, advance to the conference championship game thus losing the next opportunity to maybe play in the Rose Bowl.

    No parade, no Disneyland, just a continuing legacy of losing to 10 loss teams.

    Meanwhile back at the ranch, BYU garners another Top 25 Coach's Poll ranking, after losing to you guys earlier in the season. Hilarious.

    A 4-5 conference showing, tied at 6th, 7th or 8th place, amongst some pretty average teams, actually less than average.

    These are the Utes we are most familiar with. Average in the WAC, average in the MWC and now less than average in their new conference.

    You guys said it best, "we're ready for stiffer competition". And what comes with that will be pretty much what we saw last season.

    Nothing will make up for losing to Colorado last season, they own you now.

  • 2BCSWINS West of I15, UT
    July 17, 2012 8:06 a.m.

    @solmon levi... "Bronco understands this, which is why Bronco has FIVE Top 25 finishes.

    Kyle is still learning, which is why Kyle only has three."

    Maybe Bronco should get a better understanding of how to beat good teams then. Kyle understands that. Which is why he has top 5 finishes and Bronco doesn't.

    Be proud of the 5 top 25 finishes. IMO I would rather have 3 top 25 finishes including two undefeated seasons and two BCS bowl wins. Then have 5 top 25 finishes with 0 BCS bowl apperances and 0 signature wins. I agree with you on one thing Bronco is great at beating horrible teams. The problem is against good teams he gets out coached more times then not.

    Honest ? for you levi. Do you not get tired of the 1-3 starts bronco coached teams are know for getting off to? Do you really think it says alot about him to start slow lose to good teams. Then go through and beat all the bad teams which their expected to do. It definitley frustrates me when the U plays down and loses to bad teams.

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 17, 2012 8:57 a.m.

    @17-14

    No spin, I just have to quote ESPN:

    "Colorado shocked everyone and ended a 24-game road losing streak with a 17-14 win.

    Still, the initial verdict is fairly positive. While the grind of Pac-12 play is far different than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that Utah can compete in the Pac-12. They figure to be a long-term fixture in the South Division race."

    BYU was a top 25 team last year as much as UCLA was the PAC-12 South champion. A 44 point thumping at home, struggling against WAC teams at home, and 2-2 vs BCS teams are all signs of how great BYU would be playing a BCS schedule.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2012 10:28 a.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "Being a private university you know BYU doesn't release those figures to the public..."

    So, in other words, what you're saying is, you DON'T know how much money the Y has budgeted for their athletic department. And if you DON'T know how much the Indy-WACers budgeted, then you COULDN'T have known if it "exceed[ed] utah's by a substantial margin", and THUS...

    ...you frantically and emotionally made it up.

    Case closed.

    And as far as your "Google" search...

    I Googled "BYU athletic budget $43 million estimate" and found no such substantiation for your desperate $43 million price tag. Now to be fair, I didn't bother opening any of the links that came from places like "cougarboard", the "Daily Universe", or any other student/fan propaganda, since their sources are often dubious and/or born out of rumor and/or folklore.

    What I DID find:

    Google keyword search: "university of utah athletic department budget"
    Periodical: LA Times
    Title: "In the Pacific 12, profit-and-loss is eclipsing wins and losses"
    by: David Wharton and Baxter Holmes
    resolution: Utah's athletic budget ~ $32.7 million.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2012 10:41 a.m.

    Duckhunter (cont.):

    Google keyword search: "BYU athletic budget $43 million estimate"
    Site: Couch Fire Sports
    Title: "Mizzou Continues to Dick with the CFB World…"
    Date: October 25, 2011
    resolution: Nobody had any sources that quoted the Indy-WACer's athletic budget, but at least THIS site was written by an unbiased 3rd party from the ACC. And according to Couch Fire Sports, "BYU spends 29 percent of its estimated $35.4 million athletics budget on football."

    With a current $35.4 million athletic budget, the Indy-WACers budget outpaced Utah's 2011 budget ($32.7 million) by less than $3 million. And THAT's was with $0 television revenues. THIS season's 50% TV revenues (~$10.4 million) could very well drive up Utah's budget by >$3 million.

    Conclusion: You frantically and emotionally made up your cougar budget boast of "exceed[ing] utah's by a substantial margin". You ALSO failed to site your source. Typical.

    BUSTED! How embarrassing for you.

    "LOL"ing at YOU!

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 17, 2012 10:57 a.m.

    @naval

    It is delicious how worked up you are over this and yes I do know BYU's approximate athletic budget and it actually north of 43 mil at this point, it has gone up just like utah's has.

    But since all you'll accept is an independent source here is one from the orlando sentinal date July 29th and written by Josh Robbins. It is titled "How much revenue did your favorite Football Bowl Subdivision school take in in 2007-08? This chart will tell you
    Uncategorized — posted by Josh Robbins on July, 28 2009 11:50 AM"

    In short it list BYu with an estimate revenue, keep in mind BYU does not release their figures, of $36,695,623 for the year 2007-2008.

    It lists utah with a verifiable revenue that same year of $26,949,005 or approximately 10 million less than BYU.

    Now I happen to know BYU's revenue was north of that but we can still use that figure for our little discussion here.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 17, 2012 11:05 a.m.

    Now considering BYU was at least 10 mil ahead of utah a half decade ago, we can get a semi accurate start on this.

    BYU has now increase their revenues starting last year by a substantial amount. We'll take the utah "fan" estimate of BYU's espn revenue and say football brought in about an increase of 5 mil, they got all bowl revenues which were about 800g, they got espn tv revenue from the wcc which were estimate at about 1.5 mil per school then of course we do not have athletic contributions figures from donors although I know of some hefty onesso let's just say 5mil so that you don't blow a vein in your brain. Those are increases of about 12 mil just last year, they do not include the increases from the previous 5 years so just using the 36mil baseline we are now at 48mil which is actually pretty close to what I know it to be.

    In otherwords utah has fallen further behind BYU in revenue during that time and we all knew that anyway since utah got a very minimal amount of pac12 money last year.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 17, 2012 11:11 a.m.

    So with BYU increasing the disparity over the last several years utah has even more catching up to do. We know utah will eventually get some pac12 money, starting this year they get a partial share, but it is gradual and once it does all kick in it appears it may draw utah about even with BYU, that is of course assuming BYU does not increase their revenues over that same time frame which is pretty doubtful, they increase it every year.

    Of course this doesn't even begin to adress the FACT BYU runs a surplus and utah runs a deficit and BYU's ahtletic departments overall success is so far and away superior to utah's that it is kind of a running joke.

    But hey, utah's in the pac12 right?

    LOL!

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2012 12:15 p.m.

    @romorg

    Good information but that was then and this is now.

    @ Duckhunter

    What you said at 9:55 AM is all true. Other than responding to gored, what does this mean?

    I think the hiatus from playing BYU produces mixed feelings within a lot of people. I understand Hill's decision though. It's easy to be disappointed or critical of Dr. Hill. And saying Utah is afraid of BYU has merit for argument. I just don't see it that way.

    Utah is confident it can beat BYU, but also knows they could lose. Trying to balance a schedule outside of nine PAC 12 games is tricky. You need a warm up game. You want a name opponent, and then you have that third game. Should BYU be that every year? There are reasons for and against that go beyond being chicken.

    I miss the late November conference match up with BYU. That is gone because Utah is in the PAC 12 and BYU is an independent.

    Scheduling BYU in September doesn't really help BYU. They would be dropping another quality opponent that wouldn't come back in November when Idaho and similar others are in town.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 17, 2012 12:37 p.m.

    @gdog

    Mostly it was responding to gored but what it means above that is that utah has shown, over and over again, that it loses to bad teams. That is as much a program trait as beating good teams. Fans on both sides only want to look at the things that they think prove their program to be superior to the other. BYU may not have the same quantity of "big" wins in the Bronco/kyle era but they also do not have any of the loses to terrible teams and utah has a bunch. Just another distinction between the programs and in this case it favors BYU, nothing more than that.

    As far as the rest of your point I agree with pretty much all of it. Unless utah is allowed to play BYU in November they are of no real benefit to BYU. It is unquestionable that utah is "scared" to schedule BYU but there is a qualification to that point. It isn't that they are scared of BYU it is that they are scared of too much on their schedule and BYU represents too much when added to everything else in their way of thinking.

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 17, 2012 1:32 p.m.

    @Duckhunter

    I agree with your response although I wouldn't use the word scared. I really believe that 'the best interest of the program' sell applies. Still all the interests of the program aren't met by leaving out BYU. That said, I think too many fans are trying to compare the rivalry the way it was. It's not the same for both schools because of the parameters they are working under.

    You seem to feel like I do that the game doesn't help BYU in September enough to accomadate Utah and the PAC 12. Right?

    I also think that for Utah, you don't want the high of beating BYU or the low of losing to BYU before the conference schedule begins.

    In the past you have mentioned the lower tier PAC 12 teams as weak opponents (not exact quote). I see that, but also know the type of players on those teams leave a headache more than playing Northern Colorado or Idaho when banging heads on the gridiron.

    The rivalry won't go away, it just won't be played every year. We will see how this goes over in years to come.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2012 3:08 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    "...BYU...got all bowl revenues which were about 800g..."

    Fail. The Armed Forces Bowl was $600K per team.

    "...they got espn tv revenue from the wcc which were estimate at about 1.5 mil per school..."

    Fail. ESPN only paid for Home games and the TCU game. You did NOT get $1.5M for UCF, USU, SJSU, Idaho, or NMSU. You likely got $1.5M for Utah and TCU, and MAYBE $1M for UCF and USU. MAYBE! But SJSU, Idaho, and NMSU would have been the minimum $800K, and of course Idaho St. was worth $0. Your ESPN contract for '11 were most likely only paid out in the $7.4M range.

    "...then of course we do not have athletic contributions figures from donors although I know of some hefty onesso [sic] let's just say 5mil..."

    If you're comparing the Y's budget to the U's, know that the U gets $$$ donors too, but donor contributions are variables that cannot be allocated into an FP&A line item. So this your $5M value is moot.

    And since your numbers are inflated and made up, I think we can conclude that your $48M is too.

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 17, 2012 4:37 p.m.

    Uteology

    "There is a huge difference between losing to Colorado and UNLV."

    ONLY in the delusional mind of a bcs apologist. SOS was ALREADY INCLUDED in the rankings, so your desperate attempt to double-dip SOS simply proves that you don't understand the system.

    #120 UNLV 2-10
    #129 Washington 0-12
    #103 Mississippi 2-10
    #107 Colorado 3-9

    However, there IS a HUGE difference between the four teams you cited:

    BYU BEAT Washington and Mississippi
    Utah LOST to UNLV and Colorado

    Major/Mid-major labels are meaningless. Colorado was just as bad as Mississippi, Washington and UNLV.

    more...

  • Uteology East Salt Lake City, Utah
    July 17, 2012 5:02 p.m.

    @skywalker

    Mid-major labels are meaningless?

    Again, I quote you ESPN:

    "While the grind of Pac-12 play is far different than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that Utah can compete in the Pac-12."

    But I don't expect you to understand what "grind" of real football is like.

    Well let me cite you something else then, your team got spanked 31-16 in 2010 by:

    #114 Utah State (4-8)

    So why are you crying about #107 Colorado?

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 17, 2012 5:23 p.m.

    Uh naval vet....you are claiming BYU got more revenue from ESPN than I did, I said about 5 mil for football and about 1.5 mil as their sahre of the wcc revenues. By my math that is 6.5 mil, you're claiming their revenues were 7.4 mil and that doesn't even include the wcc money. So if you are admitting they got even more revenue than I claimed they did is my "faiL' for underestimating their revenue? LOL!

    Also BYU gets athletic department specific donations, one of the guys I coach with is a mjaor BYU booster and I know he alone gives the athletic program in excess of 1 mil per year. That's one guy. When I put it at 5 mil I was just being conservative because I know you are having a panic attack over this so I used a pretty reasonalbe number.

    You realize utah's $150 mil fund raising drive is athletic dpeartment specific don't you? It is designed to increase athletic department revenues over the next several years. I guess those contributions will be "moot" as well so that $150 mil is false?

  • WACPaddingOurSchedule pocatello, ID
    July 17, 2012 5:37 p.m.

    Duckhunter you are correct.
    BYU does have some catching up to do.
    They are 6-9 all time against San Jose St!

  • skywalker Palo Alto, CA
    July 17, 2012 5:55 p.m.

    Uteology

    "Kyle has a 13-0 undefeated team with wins over #6, #7, #18, #25." - how many were "really" good?

    "Bronco is 10-11 vs BCS teams; Kyle is 17-10." - so what!

    In other words, according to your good/mediocre/bad meter:

    Ranked Team = Good/Mediocre Team
    Unranked Team = Bad/Mediocre Team

    bcs = Good/Mediocre Team
    non-bcs = Bad/Mediocre Team

    Utah 2008 beats four ranked teams - four good teams; but only two of them are bcs teams - two good teams; but, three of them are bcs teams - three good teams; Utah finishes #2/#4 - good team; but Utah is a non-bcs team - mediocre team.

    hmmm

    BYU 2006 beats one ranked team - one good team; but, TCU isn't a bcs team - zero good teams; but, BYU beat two bcs teams - two good teams; BYU finishes #16/#15 - good team; but BYU is a non-bcs team - mediocre team.

    It all gets soooo confusing when you arbitrarily rate teams good, mediocre or bad, based strictly on labels.

    UNLV(2-10), Colorado(3-10), Ole Miss(2-10) and Washington(0-12) were ALL BAD teams.

  • B C Park City, UT
    July 17, 2012 7:17 p.m.

    uteology

    "Well let me cite you something else then, your team got spanked 31-16 in 2010 by: #114 Utah State (4-8)"

    BYU got spanked by Utah State because our defensive coordinator literally QUIT in the first quarter and stopped calling defensive plays - Hill was fired the next morning.

    What was Utah's excuse for getting SHUTOUT by UNLV(2-10), who's only other win in 2007 was over another 10-loss team, Utah State(2-10)?

    What was Utah's excuse for getting DOMINATED in the first half AT HOME by Colorado(3-10) with the pac south title there for the taking?

    What was Utah's excuse for LOSING to two of their six pac opponents with LOSING records?

    If that's what U call "competing," Utah has NO CHANCE of ever being anything more than a middle-of-the-pac team.

  • Naval Vet Philadelphia, PA
    July 17, 2012 8:29 p.m.

    Duckhunter:

    You said $12M, but failed to break out the difference between Football and Basketball. Probably because there had been no verifiable reports that pointed to your revenue sharing for Basketball, thus rendering Basketball revenues moot. What IS known however, is that Football brings in substantially more revenue than Basketball. And for Football, Utah's revenues are higher than the Indy-WACers. I already broke it out for you.

    Bottom line: you failed to produce any evidence that supports the substantial budget shortfall of Utah compared to their little brother.

    P.S.: No, the $150 million donor drive for Utah does NOT count. At least not from a budgeting perspective. Money recognized in Accounts Receivable is not the same as Cash. Besides, the money drive is a "goal"; not a receivable. So it doesn't even count as AR. Once the money is received, its unused portions are applied to the subsequent year's FP&A budget as available resource(s).

  • Jake2010 bountiful, ut
    July 17, 2012 10:21 p.m.

    When will you univrsity of utah ute fans wake up and ACCEPT the REALITY that Mike Sorenson has been and always be a dyed in the wool Ute fan? I am getting sick of seeing this slander towards him and it needs to stop! I'm sure his wife Connie can attest to this fact.... Or perhaps his kids too????

  • Swoop Salt Lake City, UT
    July 18, 2012 7:59 a.m.

    Wow, somebody sure got worked up about comparing $$$ to their big brother.

    Unfortunately for U, shiney new facilities can't guarantee that U won't still be a bottom-feeder in every sport.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 18, 2012 10:19 a.m.

    @naval vet

    No I didn't say "$12 million". I said $5mil for football and $1.5 mil for their share of the wcc as each team in the wcc gets approximately $1.5 mil per year from ESPN. That is a total of $6.5 mil.

    Also donations to the athletic dpeartment are athletic department revenue. I actually get paid by that revenue at both schools when I contract work at them. My checks come from the athletic departments and I have many times done work that was paid for directly by ATLETIC DEPARTMENT DONATIONS.

    " The numbers are drawn from schools’ reports to the U.S. Department of Education on the state of their athletic departments’ finances for July 1, 2009 to June 30, 2010. See the note at the end for more details on the data."

    "BYU $15,763,650.00
    Univ of Utah $14,690,174.00"

    That is from an article by Kristi Dosh titled "The business of college sports" which you can google and is based on thier numbers from their last year in the MWC.

    It is worth noting that while BYU has a 1mil edge they profit 5mil utah loses money.

  • Utah-Hawaii Alum Dallas, TX
    July 18, 2012 10:48 a.m.

    Utah is on the rise! Rear-view mirror is BYu.

  • Duckhunter Highland, UT
    July 18, 2012 3:07 p.m.

    So when the official announcement of BYU's impending 2014-2015 home and home with Wisconsin is officially announced in the next few weeks what will the angst filled cries of utah "fans" sound like?

  • gdog3finally West Jordan, Utah
    July 18, 2012 3:42 p.m.

    92 bottles of comments on the wall, 92 bottles of comments, take one down, pass it around, go Utes and finish the bottle.