I'm starting to think that the Utes should have committed to playing the
Cougars annually, just so we don't have to keep reading sports writers
whine about the two-year break from the rivalry.Pleas Deseret News,
if anyone else on staff wants to put their two cents in on the subject, please
do us all a favor and get it over with in the next 24 hours. Then let's
move on, shall we?
I agree, Eddie. Before this article gets commented on by the usual (BYU)
suspects, let me point out that Utah isn't afraid to schedule the Cougs.
But being in a solid BCS conference is light years harder than being in the MWC,
where by just showing up, you could be guaranteed at least 5 wins. There is no
day off in the PAC 12, as we saw in the Colorado game (a game that BYU fans hang
their hats on, considering their own team got trounced by the Utes at home by
44).And BYU fans, before we hear about scheduling Northern Colorado,
please explain Idaho, San Jose State, Hawaii, Weber State, and New Mexico State.
I agree. Let's move on to something else. All the arguments have been made
on both sides. Both schools will be fine without the game.
Afraid of losing to the Cougars?Would it be better if Dr. Hill just
said that he is tired of the hyper animosity and hostility surrounding the game
and he just thinks it's time for a time-out to cool things down for the
good of the rivalry?Would it be better if Dr. Hill just said that
the doesn't like BYU and doesn't want to see them on his field ever
again?I don't know what it is... maybe it's just as Dr.
Hill said that he thinks Texas and Florida recruits are more interested in
playing Michigan than BYU.But whatever it is, Dr. Hill has offered a
respectful way out for BYU (...they are a tough game...), yet BYU fans and the
media simply refuse to take the graceful way out and move on.The
Cougar Nation and its fawning media should show some dignity... acting like
spoiled hissy-fit children is not likely to endear you to Dr. Hill has he
decides if the time-out should continue beyond '06.
Here is a deal for BYU supporters, on the street or in the press.Pick some subjective measure, like the Sagarin rankings or some other
(relatively) respected system and compare the SOS (Strength-of-Schedule) of
Independent BYU vs. Pac-12 Utah. If and when BYU has a tougher schedule they can
call Utah "chicken."Until then just shut up already.FTR: last year Utah SOS rank #49 BYU SOS rank #90 (according to
Exactly how is BYu gonna beat Utah this year and next.......throw spit wads or
put the Ebola virus in the Ute's Gatorade jug? They stand ZERO chance
against a stacked, deep, speedy Utah squad, period the end! Plus, Utah's
recruiting is twice as good........the future for BYu is bleak at best.
Dr. Hill should just come and say, we want to play a games we know we can win
for our remaining games in 2014 and 15. But we can't say that if we play
BYU. Nothing more, nothing less. Be honest. All the talk around destroys
creditability.There are other big reasons for Utah to not play BYU
anymore but they to do apply to winning or losing.One would be that
it may eliminate all the hate that seems to be growing between the fans of both
schools. It may also eliminate the need for commentor's from both schools
to alway intentionally mock the other school by writing cute little name
slur's or openly call each other names.After all, honesty is
the best policy and name calling should end upon leaving elementary school.
@GoRed and all other Utes that make disparaging comments about the WAC and
MWCYou say there is no day off in the PAC-12 (like there was in the
MWC).Explain to me when exactly Utah could just get a win for
showing up in the MWC. I seem to remember a 0-27 loss to UNLV. That would be a
team that finished 2-10.How about that loss to Wyoming in 2006?Perhaps you remember losing to UNM 5 out of 7 years or 5 years in a row
to CSU?Do you remember those three straight you lost to AFA?And then there were the two losses to SDSU when they were 0-5 and
2-4.So, tell me again who it was in the MWC you could just show up
against.You were a member of the WAC for 36 years and NEVER won an
outright title. BYU won 13 and shared 6 more.You were a member of
the MWC for 12 years and won 3 outright titles while sharing 1. BYU..same.Congrats on your membership in the PAC-12. Just don't act like
you're too good for your former competition.
This writer is a real tool and the u is the PAC doormat. BYU Should just close
the door permanently on the school up north.
We have all weighed in. What's done is done. It's time to play
football. Time to put a button kicking on the Ute's, and send them packing
in style. In front Chris Hill's luxery box.
Utah could never beat byu. We just beat ourselves.
gored"Before this article gets commented on by the usual (BYU)
suspects, let me point out that Utah isn't afraid to schedule the
Cougs."lolThe Utes absolutely are AFRAID of LOSING
to the Cougars or the Utes would have already locked in the Cougars
home-and-home for the next 20 years.bottom line:Hill
said so himself that he didn't think the Utes were good enough to play BYU
and Michigan in the same year, in other words, he was worried that the Utes
could LOSE to both BYU and Michigan in the same year, possibly killing
Utah's chances of going to a bowl if the Utes finished with another losing
record in the PAC 12, which is looking more and more like a very likely
occurance most years.btw,Hill isn't dumb enough to
even think that the Utes have the clout to beg for a two-for-one from ANY
Utah should look to schedule 2 for 1 arrangements for as many out of confrence
games as they can, if they want to play us 2 for 1 then lets do it. Their
trouble putting together a 13 game schedule is not Chris Hill's issue and
he shouldn't be expected to do ANYTHING that is not in the best interest of
our team. I am 100% confident he is doing just that.GO UTES!!!!
Mike Sorensen: "Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU"That's the core of the dilemma facing Utah.Despite the
pretended "superiority" of Hill and Whittingham and Utah fans, even
though there have been a couple of lopsided games during the Bronco/Kyle era,
FIVE of the SEVEN games (72%) have been decided by a touchdown or less in the
closing minutes or in overtime.The Utes know that they are just as
likely to lose to BYU as they are to Michigan.The Utes may act
tough, but as Hill said, the reality is the Utes aren't good enough to play
BYU and Michigan in the same season.
@ Mike Sorenson"Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat
BYU"What makes you think they don't?NEWSFLASH!
Call Bronco and have him read your article.
Its not that Utah is scared of BYU at all, this is about creating a smart
schedule. Beating BYU does nothing while losing can ruin a national title or
bowl chance. For example lets say you're walking down the street and some
drunk guy picks a fight with you. Most sensible people would walk away not
because they are scared of losing the fight but because there is nothing to gain
but quite a lot to lose if it became a legal issue. Thats the same thought
process, beating independent BYU does nothing for voters but losing to them
I've yet to hear anyone discuss the ramifications of playing Michigan over
the next two years (as compared to playing BYU) and how that plays out in the
minds of the recruits that Utah and BYU both covet. It is clear that the Utah
game should weigh heavily in the minds of young kids who like both schools. If
Utah's schedule offers something pretty to replace not playing against BYU,
what does BYU offer in place of not playing at packed houses against the mighty
Utes in front of friends and family? A late night weekday ESPN game?
Put aside all the boasting and either team could win on any given year..
that's what made this rivalry so heated and fun. To push it aside is to
ignore what the fans want. Chris Hill should remember that the game is played
for the fans. It's all going to just be meaningless talk if they
don't schedule the games again after this two year hiatus is over. As a
Ute fan I'm saddened and disheartened by Chris Hill's decision.
The bottom line is that the Utes don't need BYu...the Ute's make over
$1million a game in teh PAC12...if they play BYu, the bring in $300K...it's
all about money folks and the Ute's have it and the y does not. In other
words: The Utes grew up and went to college, the y is still in high school
trying to figure out what day it is.Can't wait 'till the
our Utes are playing in the Rose Bowl...Go Utes! Man, it's great to be U
@goredThere were no "days off" for utah in the mwc either
considering they lost to every single bottom feeder in that conference during
whittigham's tenure. Remember new mexico? Howzabout wyoming? san diego st?
colorado st? And oh yes I'm sure you remember unlv. utah's proven it
has a propensity to lose to very bad teams, and in very embarrassing fashion. So
I have to agree with you on this, for utah there are no "days off",
ever, against anybody.LOL!
@norcalute"the Ute's make over $1million a game in teh
PAC12...if they play BYu, the bring in $300K.."So how does that
work? How is it that a pac12 game brings them a million but a BYU game only
300K?You don't even know what you are talking about.LOL!
Oh and norcalute....BYU's athletic budget and revenues still exceeds
utah's by a substantial margin and the absolute best the ute's can
hope for is that several years from now when they finally are accepted as a full
fledged pac12 member and get a full payout is that they will perhaps equal
NORCALUTEThe Utes will play in the Rose Bowl this season---when they are
the visiting team vs. UCLA.The only times that the Utes will ever play in
the Rose Bowl will be their games at UCLA.
"Beating BYU does nothing while losing can ruin a national title or bowl
chance."Don't kid yourself.Beating a perennial
Top 25 team like BYU does a whole lot more for Utah on a national scale than
beating 4-win teams WSU, OSU, Ariz, and Colorado - oh wait, U couldn't even
do that.LOL at your national title talk.The Utes
aren't even close to competing for a PAC 12 South Division title, let alone
a national title, and as far as bowl chances, if you can't even beat all of
your PAC 12 opponents with losing records, you deserve what you get as far as
bowl or no bowl.If you're not good enough to beat BYU, U have
NO CHANCE of playing in the Rose Bowl or competing for a national title -
you're no longer in the MWC where all you have to do to get into a BcS bowl
is beat TCU and BYU.Bottom line, there's no good excuse for not
playing BYU except for not being good enough to expect to beat BYU.
"The bottom line is that the Utes don't need BYU.. the Ute's make
over $1million a game in teh[sic] PAC12...if they play BYU, the bring in
$300K"Silly argument, for several reasons.- The Utes
are already maxed out on the number of PAC 12 teams they can play, so it's
not an either/or decision.- Every other game is played in RES and
there are only handful of teams that could possibly generate more television
revenue, IF Utah could schedule them - and NONE would draw larger crowds- What authoritative source are you citing for your revenue estimates -
guaranteed, BYU pays ALOT more than $300k to teams like Utah.
Yawn. Yet another article about the "rivalry". BYU has games to play and
win. Utah is one of them this year. Lets win it. Enough of this rivalry whining.
Move on.Frankly, playing Boise, ND, Ga Tech, Texas, et al. are far
more interesting than another game with a PAC12 also ran. Oh wait, BYU plays 3
PAC12 also-rans this year. Yay! Plus Boise, ND, and Ga Tech.We're Independent! Let's enjoy it. Bowl games are automatic for BYU,
so lets just win what's on our plate and let the rest fall into place. Who
knows, maybe we'll be playing Utah in the Poinsettia bowl this year ...
They won't be playing in the Rose Bowl, that's for sure.
DuckhunterHave to agree; Utah hasn't had any "days off"
since the leather helmet era.Kyle lost to EVERY MWC bottom dweller,
including 10-loss UNLV, and he began his PAC 12 tenure losing to 10-loss
Colorado right out of the gate and barely beat 4-win WSU in OT.Any
coach that's already lost TWO games to 10-loss teams in only 7 years of
coaching, is fully capable of losing to ANYBODY.BYU has only had TWO
losses to 10-loss teams IN THEIR ENTIRE HISTORY, the last such loss coming over
25 years ago. Bronco is UNDEFEATED against the MWC bottom dwellers that Kyle
Why is it that every football article has a majority of comments from the
nutcase fans from both the U and Y? I can't count how many times I've
heard Y fans claiming the U will never see a Rose Bowl and U fans claiming that
the Y will never achieve any success in college football again. Both statements
(and many others) are complete and utter nonsense. Both sides are becoming
boringly consistent in their silly animosity. As a Utahn and a BYU
alum, I've loved watching the success of two great football programs. I
enjoyed the rivalry game, because ANYTHING could happen. Who did I cheer for?
The underdog. I have met coaches for both teams and they are men of integrity.
I have known players on both teams and have enjoyed following these kids as they
developed. I don't think anyone with a lick of sense and integrity and
real self-esteem would trash the opposing team. It is a truly pathetic act to do
Utah-Hawaii Alum"They stand ZERO chance against a stacked, deep,
speedy Utah squad, period the end! Plus, Utah's recruiting is twice as
good........the future for BYu is bleak at best."Thanks for that
non-biased objective assessment of the game this year. Expect to hear from the
ESPN College Game Day staff soon with a job offer.
Is BYU afraid to play Utah State?Ten years ago, BYU ended a rivalry
with the Aggies that went back almost as far as the BYU/Utah rivalry (1922).
During one four-year stretch they played Utah State only once - a "one and
done" in Provo. Today Utah State must agree to a "Two for One"
(play twice in Provo for one trip to Logan), to play BYU. Come on guys. If you
are going to do things like, you shouldn't complain if Utah decides you
need to take a back seat to their scheduling. What goes around comes around
DuckhunterHighland, UTOh and norcalute....BYU's athletic budget
and revenues still exceeds utah's by a substantial margin and the absolute
best the ute's can hope for is that several years from now when they
finally are accepted as a full fledged pac12 member and get a full payout is
that they will perhaps equal BYU's revenues.LOL!____________BYU is 6-9 all time against San Jose St.LOL!
DNews Editor discussing Mike Sorensen's column this week:"I
don't know Mike, it looks a little thin. Jazz news. Golf news. I tell
you what -- add a paragraph about the BYU-Utah rivalry. Just some blah, blah,
blah, Utah is afraid kind of stuff. That will get some page hits and a ton of
comments. This horse ain't dead yet!"I'm surprised it
hasn't spread to other departments:"St George flood vicitims talk
about the rivalry.""Oil prices rise due to rivalry hiatus.""Who will be the next American Idol judges, and their views on The Holy
Henry Drummond"Is BYU afraid to play Utah State?"Simple answer: NO!But, your question has already been addressed
and you already know the answer so why repeat the question?
WACpaddled"BYU is 6-9 all time against San Jose St."Why are you so fixated on a stat that is so utterly irrelevant?BYU and Utah are BOTH 6-1 versus San Jose St. since the WAC was created in
1962, and Utah's loss was more recent.In a stat that is
actually revelant:Utah is 0-7 all time against Washington.BYU
is 4-4 all time against Washington.BYU beat Washington in 2010.Utah lost to Washington, AGAIN, in 2011.LOL!----------as far as embarrassing irrelevant statsUtah
is 1-6 all time against the Village People (the SLC YMCA)LOL!
romorgYou are talking about two teams that are totally different
than 20-30 years ago. Go buy yourself a new shirt that isn't byu blue but
the new color Utah State blue get yourself into the NOW and don't rate both
programs like they are the same. Utah is a far superior football program now,
same with duckman two totally different programs now Utah has been in the PAC 1
year, byu indy 1 year in football, the programs are heading in two different
After reading a number of recent articles and an even larger number of posts, I
have come to these conclusions:-Yep, Utah is really scared to play BYU-Utah owes BYU a debt and should have cancelling the rivalry for 2 years-All of the Utah wins in the last few years have been flukes-Winning 7
of the last 10 doesn't mean anything, and the comment about the streak
could be 15 straight is just pure hogwash-The PAC 12 teams are no better
than the MWC competion-Playing a very soft schedule to get 10 wins and
playing late night on ESPN is the best optionThere - I have agreed
with all of your comments. Now maybe we won't have any more of these
articles with the same posts over and over and over and over and over and over
again.Time to move on.
during the period from the 70's through about 2000 BYU was by far the
dominant team. The program and players as well as the coaches were just much
better than Utah. Everything started to change after year 2000. Now I feel it
has reversed - Utah has a much better program than the Y - better players,
better coaches and better recruiting. The Y - once the big brother - has now
become the little brother wanting some day to make it like big brother has. The
U has 2 BCS wins and is in the Pac 12 conference. Enough said. The only bowl
game the Y has which could be considered big time was the 1996 cotton bowl win
over Kansas State. I agree with the article - the U should expect to win against
the Y. It would be an upset for the Y to win anymore. Academically - the U has
the medical school and is seen better academically overall I think. This is what
the PAC 12 chancellors stated when picking the U over the Y. The Y's
business school is better but the u has been making big strides there as well.
Riddles in the park, go look at BYU's results from 2004. Scroll down to
BYU's own little game against UNLV and tell me how that went? By the way,
UNLV won 2 games that year. One of them was against BYU. And it has absolutely
no bearing on how their team will perform this year. The best thing about
college football is that every year is different and no team is exactly how they
were the year before. Any argument about who was worse when and which loss was
the worse is pointless because it means absolutely nothing right now. The
bottom line is that every program has good and bad years and BYU and Utah have
some pretty bad losses throughout history. I for one am sick of the
fans behavior on both sides and have to agree with BYU Coach Mendenhall, if the
fans can't improve their behavior, maybe the game shouldn't be played.
But anyone, including Chris Hill, who thinks Utah is afraid to play BYU is a
"Mike Sorensen: Utah Utes should act like they expect to beat BYU"The operative word is is "act".The Utes don't
even believe their own propaganda so their actions can't match their
words.They "say" that beating BYU is no problem, but
"act" according to what they really believe - that they're scared
of losing to BYU - so they refuse to play BYU in 2014 and 2015 and won't
commit to playing after 2016.Actions, as they say, speak louder than
Solomon Levi and other BYU fans:How does it feel to be fed the same
repetitive stats? You wrote the book on it.
utes will loose. remember until recently it wasn't a contest.
govt rocks"go look at BYU's results from 2004. Scroll down
to BYU's own little game against UNLV and tell me how that went? By the
way, UNLV won 2 games that year."You do realize, don't you,
that BYU 2004 was the team that finally got Gary Crowton fired?One of the
worst BYU teams of the last six decades lost to UNLV by four points, 20-24.One of the better Utah teams, a team that was comprised mostly of
players that won the Sugar Bowl the next season, was SHUTOUT by UNLV 0-27. By
the way, UNLV won 2 games that year.The factor you're
overlooking is coaching matters and Kyle has a history of losing to bad teams,
while Bronco does not.-----------patriotThe
PAC chancellors had to come up with a non-religious excuse for picking Utah over
BYU, but it's funny how being a "Research" university wasn't
even mentioned when the PAC 10 - Big 12 merger was being discussed.
Academically, Utah's undergraduate programs lag well behind BYU's
undergraduate programs, as do several other PAC 12 schools.
patriot, utah is catching up academically, really? Just where does your info
Duckhunter:"BYU's athletic budget and revenues still
exceeds utah's by a substantial margin."Do you know what
the Indy-WACers athletic budget is? Because I'm thinking you DON'T!
And if you DON'T, how would you know if it still exceeded Utah's.If you don't report back here with a verifiable source that
compares Utah's with the "perfection" questers, than you would be
tacitly admitting that you frantically and emotionally made that up, and all of
us Utah fans will be "LOL"ing at you.So let's see it
WACPaddled"How does it feel to be fed the same repetitive
stats?"You mean like 54-10, 2 BcS bowls, Utah's lifetime
record versus BYU, oh, and this golden oldie, 34-31, ad nauseum?Pot
meet kettle.Your problem is when it comes to comparing national
awards stats, Utah's cupboard is completely bare, so you're forced to
find trivial stats from bygone eras to make yourself feel good.
Riddles in the Dark:"Bronco is UNDEFEATED against the MWC bottom
dwellers that Kyle lost to."Haha! While Utah fans had been
gauging our program by how well we stacked up vs. schools in BCS conferences
(where we were the winningest non-AQ team in the country), how well we performed
in the postseason (where we were the winningest FBS team in the country among
teams with greater than 10 bowl games played), and how well we did in BCS bowl
games (where we are tied with Oregon with the 2nd most BCS bowl trophies in the
Pac-12).......our little brothers have been gauging the success of
THEIR program by how well they've matched up vs. the bottom dwellers of the
MWC. Is it any wonder why our programs are headed off in opposite directions?
No wonder you guys decided to go back to the WAC.
@NORCALUTE...it's all about the money folks,and the Utes have
it and the Y does not. What a cluelessstatement. Utah NEEDS the money, BYU
doesn't. p.s. Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and
they can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your
sports program is a joke. (their words not mine)
Why would the Utes have any explaining to do if their third non-conference game
was a UCF or SMU? After all, BYU had seven of their 10 wins last year to patsy
WAC and C-USA teams. BYU fans should be more than familiar with taking a break
from the tough teams once in a while.
Naval Vet"we were the winningest non-AQ team in the country"
- versus BcS teams onlyMyopic Utah fans look only at Utah's
wins, but completely ignore Utah's losses.LOSSES are the
difference between Bronco having FIVE 10-win seasons and Kyle only having THREE,
after having played the exact same number of games during the past seven
seasons.And the same reason Bronco has FIVE Top 25 Finishes
(including THREE Top 15 Finishes), while Kyle only has THREE Top 25 Finishes
(including only ONE Top 15 Finish).Our little brothers judge seasons
by one or two games (like Utah's win over BYU last season); legacy programs
judge seasons by overall results (like final Top 25 Ranking).----------bbj1979The Utes don't have to explain
anything; their actions speak for themselves.
Barnbug1:"Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they
can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports
program is a joke."And your point is....what? That the Utes
DIDN'T win 8-games last year? That they DIDN'T beat all their O.O.C.
opponents? That they LOST to Ga. Tech in the Sun Bowl? Or maybe your point is
that your USC fan relatives don't know that beating all ones O.O.C.
opponents, and winning one's bowl game all BOLSTER the Pac-12's
national profile.P.S.: I happen to have some relatives in Los
Angeles and San Diego. And they do NOT think Utah is a joke. Does that mean
you're going to change your mind about Utah Football? Or does it mean you
think the opinions of my relatives are as irrelevant as I think of the opinions
Barnbug1 said: "Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they
can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports
program is a joke."Naval Vet said: "And your point
is...?"Probably that the ONLY fans who are "impressed"
with Utah's 8th place finish in the PAC 12 are delusional Utah fans.SoCal fans look at:8th in football11th in
basketballlast or next to last in every other men's sportlosing
records in every men's sportand wonder,Why exactly
did Scott invite these over-stuffed bottom feeders to our conference?Instead of trying, and failing, to convince your big brothers that you belong,
maybe you should be trying to convince the other members of the PAC 12 that you
belong.It's obvious that BYU fans are seeing the exact same
conference ineptitude that members of the PAC 12 are seeing, and it's not
@romorgGoRed and all other Utes that make disparaging comments about
the WAC and MWCYou say there is no day off in the PAC-12 (like there
was in the MWC).Explain to me when exactly Utah could just get a win
for showing up in the MWC. I seem to remember a 0-27 loss to UNLV. That would be
a team that finished 2-10.So, tell me again who it was in the MWC
you could just show up against.---------------The UNLV
game was the 4th game in 2007, when Kyle was just getting his players into the
program. Please do tell us which mid-major team Utah lost to since
then that had a losing record.2008: 13-02009: 10-3 (#6 TCU and
#12 @BYU)2010: 10-3 (#2 TCU and #9 Boise)2011: 8-5 (5 loses to BCS
Barnbug1:"Got some SoCal relatives who are USC fans and they
can't figure out why Utah is even in their league. They think your sports
program is a joke."----------That's funny
considering that the USC teamed rushed the field after barley winning a Utah
team stacked with MWC talent.
Ah naval lint, that really got your blood boiling didn't it. Being a
private university you know BYU doesn't release those figures to the public
although utah, being a poor state run school has to. The most recent report I
could find for utah was a budget of about 26mil 3 years ago. Let's give
them the benefit of the doubt and say they've increase those revenues to
maybe about 30mil since that time.BYU on the otherhand has an
ESTIMATED budget of about 43mil 3 years ago. I googled it and found it on line
but that is actually very close to what I had been told by someone that knows.
Whether you want to believe it or not is of no consequence to me, your angst
changes nothing. LOL!But what should be even easier for you to find
if you simply google it is a Dnews article from February of this year reporting
BYU showing an athletic department PROFIT of approximately 5.5mil and utah
having an athletic department deficit of near the same amount. LOL!
This is all getting very old.One thing worth mentioning to my fellow
Ute fans ... quit talking like Utah is just going to show up and put a beat down
on BYU this year. It's feeling eerily similar to what BYU fans were saying
to us on these threads at this time last year. And yes, I'm a touch
superstitious... bad things happen when we get ahead of ourselves.
I'm a Ute fan. There are 2 reasons for this. First, Utah desperately
needs to maintain a strong image in their first years in the PAC12. This is key
to recruiting against PAC12 teams. If Utah, who has a better chance of losing
to opponents like Idaho or Idaho State, loses to Michigan (possible) and BYU in
non conference games, then has to run the guantlet of a PAC12 schedule...they
are likely to end with a 6,7, or maybe 8 win season. That doesn't impress
recruits. If they finish with an 8, 9, or 10 win season...now they are
accomplishing things. I think they need to finish well, and high in the final
rankings (see: BYU for ways to finish highly ranked without beating anyone good)
to help recruiting. Second, the BYU game is physically demanding. Players take
cheap shots. The emotional toll is much worse. Utah doesn't need that the
week before USC, Washington, etc. Hopefully a couple year break will cool this
a little bit.
Uteology"Please do tell us which mid-major team Utah lost to
since then that had a losing record."So that's laughable
excuse for Utah's losses from now on - Utah didn't lose to a
"mid-major" programs with losing record since you'll only be
playing POSSIBLY ONLY ONE such program from now on.Earth to
Uteology, U may not have considered 3-10 Colorado to be a "mid-major"
calibre team, but the rest of the country clearly sees the Buffs for what they
were, the 107th WORST team in the country. You need to take of those
"bcs" tinted goggles; it'll help you see more clearly that having a
"bcs" label or not having a "bcs" label has absolutely no
bearing on whether a team is great or terrible.
Oh and naval "profit" means BYU brings in more revenue than needed,
whatever the amount is, "deficit" means utah does not bring in
waht's needed, whatever the amount is, and must be subsidized with other
university funds. And before you go off half cocked about utah' football
program being in the black, yes we know, everyones football progam runs in the
black, the issue is whether or not the football program brings in enough to run
in the black and mostly pay for all of the other sports. utah's clearly
doesn't while BYU's clearly does. Of course I'm sure BYU makes
substantially more from its basketball team than utah does as well so that helps
BYU and is probably no more than a break even deal for utah.But of
course that is the difference between winning a few national championships this
year, like BYU did, and being at the top of your conference in virtually every
sport, like BYU did, and being a top 25 ranked football team, like BYU was, and
going to the ncaa, like BYU did, and being at the bottom of your conference in
just about everything, like utah did.
Uteology"The UNLV game was the 4th game in 2007, when Kyle was
just getting his players into the program. Please do tell us which mid-major
team Utah lost to since then that had a losing record."Even for
you, that's gotta be some of the most pathetically weak spin ever posted on
this blog.THREE YEARS into his head coaching tenure at Utah, the
same year that Bronco finished 11-2, #14/#15 after having to start from scratch
with the mess Gary Crowton left behind, you're blaming a 0-27 shutout loss
to 2-10 UNLV on it being the 4th game of the season and Kyle "just getting
his players into the program"???Give me a break!Besides Utah, the ONLY other team UNLV beat in 2007 was Utah State, which also
finished 2-10!Didn't Utah STOMP UCLA 44-6 the week before. So
how was it Utah was able to destroy a great "bcs" team in week 3, then
get SHUTOUT by a pathetic MWC team in week 4?10-loss teams are
10-loss teams; whether they're in a "power" conference or a
@ patriotYou make some good arguments but I would offer one
correction. BYU did not dominate from the 70's until the year 2000. While
the Y did win the first 3 games in the 90's; Utah won 5 of the next 7
played in that decade.
@PACman "Earth to Uteology, U may not have considered 3-10 Colorado to be a
"mid-major" calibre team, but the rest of the country clearly sees the
Buffs for what they were, the 107th WORST team in the country."Earth to PACman the team everybody see's as the 107th worst team in the
country beat the U which beat the Y by 44 on their home feild. So what exactly
is your point? You somehow try to put the U down by losing to colorado wouldnt
that mean losing to the U by 44 at home would make your team look even worse?
Several Y fan's on this board want to comment how bronco is
unbeaten against bottom dwellers. So what who cares nobody but a Y fan would
even think about that. Logical people want to know what a team does against
tough competition. Maybe if bronco worried more about beating good teams instead
of the bad one's. They would actually get some quality wins like kyle has!
Naval Vet:My point was nothing. That's just what they said. The
thing I did notice was that they saidSPORTS PROGRAM, not football team. I
think that maybe you get caught up with firing off replies to just about
everything that's posted, you don't read them too well. I'd
suggest stepping away from the old keyboard for a few hours a day, get the blood
pumpin again, then get after it like never before.
2BAny fan with even the slightest amount of common sense understands
that the circular logic of comparative scores is a meaningless exercise.2007 is perfect example - in chronological order:BYU loses
at UCLA 17-27Utah beats UCLA 44-6Early season conclusion -
Utah is 48 points better than BYUUtah loses at UNLV 0-27BYU
beats UNLV at UNLV 24-14Mid-season conclusion - BYU is 37 points
better than UtahBYU beats Utah 17-10BYU beats UCLA in the Las
Vegas Bowl 17-16Final Season Conclusion:BYU finished
11-2, #14/#15, undefeated in the MWCUtah finished 9-4, unranked, with that
humiliating loss to UNLV remembered long after the big win over UCLA has been
forgotten.Single game comparisons, even head-to-head results, are
meaningless when judging overall results.Logical fans understand
that who you don't lose to is just as important has who you beat. Bronco understands this, which is why Bronco has FIVE Top 25 finishes.Kyle is still learning, which is why Kyle only has three.
CO UteWhy do Utah fans have to parse results to distort reality?During the decade of the 90's:BYU won 3Utah won
3Then they traded wins the rest of the decadeFinal Result:BYU 5Utah 5The BIG difference, however was in overall
results:BYU beat #1-ranked defending national champion MiamiTy
Detmer won the Heisman Trophy, Sammy Baugh Trophy (nation's best passer)
and Davey O'Brien Award (nation's best quarterback) (twice)Steve
Sarkisian won the Sammy Baugh TrophyBYU won the Cotton BowlTop 25 FinishesBYU 4 - #22/#17, #23/#23, #18/#10, #5/#5Utah 1 -
#10/#8Conference ChampionshipsBYU 7Utah 2Overall RecordBYU 86-39 (69%)Utah 71-46 (61%)Utah may
have tied BYU head-to-head, but BYU dominated Utah in overall achievements - it
wasn't even close.
There is a huge difference between losing to Colorado and UNLV.2007:
#120 UNLV 2-10 played the #58 SOS in the country.2009:#129 Washington 0-12 played the #1 SOS in the nation.2011: #103 Mississippi 2-10 played the #9 SOS in the country.#107 Colorado 3-9
played the #21 SOS in the country.Colorado is a mid-major program as
much as Mississippi and Washington are, both teams that BYU beat by 1 point each
-- Broncos is 10-11 vs BCS teams (Kyle 17-10).
@Solomon LeviKyle has a 13-0 undefeated team with wins over #6, #7,
#18, #25.Bronco has his "Quest" t-shirts.Losing
to (2-10) UNLV was humiliating in 2007 but the undefeated 2008 Ute team more
than made up for it.
UteologyAll the spin in the world will not change the fact that your
Utes lost to a 10 loss team, a team that had not won a road game in four years,
in your own stadium, on national tv and in doing so lost its golden greased
opportunity to win the south division, advance to the conference championship
game thus losing the next opportunity to maybe play in the Rose Bowl.No parade, no Disneyland, just a continuing legacy of losing to 10 loss
teams.Meanwhile back at the ranch, BYU garners another Top 25
Coach's Poll ranking, after losing to you guys earlier in the season.
Hilarious.A 4-5 conference showing, tied at 6th, 7th or 8th place,
amongst some pretty average teams, actually less than average.These
are the Utes we are most familiar with. Average in the WAC, average in the MWC
and now less than average in their new conference. You guys said it
best, "we're ready for stiffer competition". And what comes with
that will be pretty much what we saw last season. Nothing will make
up for losing to Colorado last season, they own you now.
@solmon levi... "Bronco understands this, which is why Bronco has FIVE Top
25 finishes.Kyle is still learning, which is why Kyle only has
three."Maybe Bronco should get a better understanding of how to
beat good teams then. Kyle understands that. Which is why he has top 5 finishes
and Bronco doesn't. Be proud of the 5 top 25 finishes. IMO I
would rather have 3 top 25 finishes including two undefeated seasons and two BCS
bowl wins. Then have 5 top 25 finishes with 0 BCS bowl apperances and 0
signature wins. I agree with you on one thing Bronco is great at beating
horrible teams. The problem is against good teams he gets out coached more times
then not. Honest ? for you levi. Do you not get tired of the 1-3
starts bronco coached teams are know for getting off to? Do you really think it
says alot about him to start slow lose to good teams. Then go through and beat
all the bad teams which their expected to do. It definitley frustrates me when
the U plays down and loses to bad teams.
@17-14No spin, I just have to quote ESPN:"Colorado
shocked everyone and ended a 24-game road losing streak with a 17-14 win. Still, the initial verdict is fairly positive. While the grind of Pac-12
play is far different than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that
Utah can compete in the Pac-12. They figure to be a long-term fixture in the
South Division race."BYU was a top 25 team last year as much as
UCLA was the PAC-12 South champion. A 44 point thumping at home, struggling
against WAC teams at home, and 2-2 vs BCS teams are all signs of how great BYU
would be playing a BCS schedule.
Duckhunter:"Being a private university you know BYU doesn't
release those figures to the public..."So, in other words, what
you're saying is, you DON'T know how much money the Y has budgeted for
their athletic department. And if you DON'T know how much the Indy-WACers
budgeted, then you COULDN'T have known if it "exceed[ed] utah's by
a substantial margin", and THUS......you frantically and
emotionally made it up.Case closed.And as far as your
"Google" search...I Googled "BYU athletic budget $43
million estimate" and found no such substantiation for your desperate $43
million price tag. Now to be fair, I didn't bother opening any of the
links that came from places like "cougarboard", the "Daily
Universe", or any other student/fan propaganda, since their sources are
often dubious and/or born out of rumor and/or folklore. What I DID
find:Google keyword search: "university of utah athletic
department budget"Periodical: LA TimesTitle: "In the
Pacific 12, profit-and-loss is eclipsing wins and losses"by: David
Wharton and Baxter Holmesresolution: Utah's athletic budget ~ $32.7
Duckhunter (cont.):Google keyword search: "BYU athletic budget
$43 million estimate"Site: Couch Fire SportsTitle: "Mizzou
Continues to Dick with the CFB World…"Date: October 25, 2011resolution: Nobody had any sources that quoted the Indy-WACer's athletic
budget, but at least THIS site was written by an unbiased 3rd party from the
ACC. And according to Couch Fire Sports, "BYU spends 29 percent of its
estimated $35.4 million athletics budget on football."With a
current $35.4 million athletic budget, the Indy-WACers budget outpaced
Utah's 2011 budget ($32.7 million) by less than $3 million. And
THAT's was with $0 television revenues. THIS season's 50% TV revenues
(~$10.4 million) could very well drive up Utah's budget by >$3
million.Conclusion: You frantically and emotionally made up your
cougar budget boast of "exceed[ing] utah's by a substantial
margin". You ALSO failed to site your source. Typical. BUSTED! How embarrassing for you."LOL"ing at YOU!
@navalIt is delicious how worked up you are over this and yes I do
know BYU's approximate athletic budget and it actually north of 43 mil at
this point, it has gone up just like utah's has. But since all
you'll accept is an independent source here is one from the orlando
sentinal date July 29th and written by Josh Robbins. It is titled "How much
revenue did your favorite Football Bowl Subdivision school take in in 2007-08?
This chart will tell you Uncategorized — posted by Josh Robbins on
July, 28 2009 11:50 AM"In short it list BYu with an estimate
revenue, keep in mind BYU does not release their figures, of $36,695,623 for the
year 2007-2008.It lists utah with a verifiable revenue that same
year of $26,949,005 or approximately 10 million less than BYU.Now I
happen to know BYU's revenue was north of that but we can still use that
figure for our little discussion here.
Now considering BYU was at least 10 mil ahead of utah a half decade ago, we can
get a semi accurate start on this.BYU has now increase their
revenues starting last year by a substantial amount. We'll take the utah
"fan" estimate of BYU's espn revenue and say football brought in
about an increase of 5 mil, they got all bowl revenues which were about 800g,
they got espn tv revenue from the wcc which were estimate at about 1.5 mil per
school then of course we do not have athletic contributions figures from donors
although I know of some hefty onesso let's just say 5mil so that you
don't blow a vein in your brain. Those are increases of about 12 mil just
last year, they do not include the increases from the previous 5 years so just
using the 36mil baseline we are now at 48mil which is actually pretty close to
what I know it to be.In otherwords utah has fallen further behind
BYU in revenue during that time and we all knew that anyway since utah got a
very minimal amount of pac12 money last year.
So with BYU increasing the disparity over the last several years utah has even
more catching up to do. We know utah will eventually get some pac12 money,
starting this year they get a partial share, but it is gradual and once it does
all kick in it appears it may draw utah about even with BYU, that is of course
assuming BYU does not increase their revenues over that same time frame which is
pretty doubtful, they increase it every year.Of course this
doesn't even begin to adress the FACT BYU runs a surplus and utah runs a
deficit and BYU's ahtletic departments overall success is so far and away
superior to utah's that it is kind of a running joke.But hey,
utah's in the pac12 right?LOL!
@romorgGood information but that was then and this is now.@ DuckhunterWhat you said at 9:55 AM is all true. Other than
responding to gored, what does this mean? I think the hiatus from
playing BYU produces mixed feelings within a lot of people. I understand
Hill's decision though. It's easy to be disappointed or critical of
Dr. Hill. And saying Utah is afraid of BYU has merit for argument. I just
don't see it that way.Utah is confident it can beat BYU, but
also knows they could lose. Trying to balance a schedule outside of nine PAC 12
games is tricky. You need a warm up game. You want a name opponent, and then you
have that third game. Should BYU be that every year? There are reasons for and
against that go beyond being chicken.I miss the late November
conference match up with BYU. That is gone because Utah is in the PAC 12 and BYU
is an independent. Scheduling BYU in September doesn't really
help BYU. They would be dropping another quality opponent that wouldn't
come back in November when Idaho and similar others are in town.
@gdogMostly it was responding to gored but what it means above that
is that utah has shown, over and over again, that it loses to bad teams. That is
as much a program trait as beating good teams. Fans on both sides only want to
look at the things that they think prove their program to be superior to the
other. BYU may not have the same quantity of "big" wins in the
Bronco/kyle era but they also do not have any of the loses to terrible teams and
utah has a bunch. Just another distinction between the programs and in this
case it favors BYU, nothing more than that.As far as the rest of
your point I agree with pretty much all of it. Unless utah is allowed to play
BYU in November they are of no real benefit to BYU. It is unquestionable that
utah is "scared" to schedule BYU but there is a qualification to that
point. It isn't that they are scared of BYU it is that they are scared of
too much on their schedule and BYU represents too much when added to everything
else in their way of thinking.
@DuckhunterI agree with your response although I wouldn't use
the word scared. I really believe that 'the best interest of the
program' sell applies. Still all the interests of the program aren't
met by leaving out BYU. That said, I think too many fans are trying to compare
the rivalry the way it was. It's not the same for both schools because of
the parameters they are working under.You seem to feel like I do
that the game doesn't help BYU in September enough to accomadate Utah and
the PAC 12. Right? I also think that for Utah, you don't want
the high of beating BYU or the low of losing to BYU before the conference
schedule begins. In the past you have mentioned the lower tier PAC
12 teams as weak opponents (not exact quote). I see that, but also know the type
of players on those teams leave a headache more than playing Northern Colorado
or Idaho when banging heads on the gridiron.The rivalry won't
go away, it just won't be played every year. We will see how this goes over
in years to come.
Duckhunter:"...BYU...got all bowl revenues which were about
800g..."Fail. The Armed Forces Bowl was $600K per team."...they got espn tv revenue from the wcc which were estimate at
about 1.5 mil per school..."Fail. ESPN only paid for Home games
and the TCU game. You did NOT get $1.5M for UCF, USU, SJSU, Idaho, or NMSU.
You likely got $1.5M for Utah and TCU, and MAYBE $1M for UCF and USU. MAYBE!
But SJSU, Idaho, and NMSU would have been the minimum $800K, and of course Idaho
St. was worth $0. Your ESPN contract for '11 were most likely only paid
out in the $7.4M range."...then of course we do not have
athletic contributions figures from donors although I know of some hefty onesso
[sic] let's just say 5mil..."If you're comparing the
Y's budget to the U's, know that the U gets $$$ donors too, but donor
contributions are variables that cannot be allocated into an FP&A line item.
So this your $5M value is moot.And since your numbers are inflated
and made up, I think we can conclude that your $48M is too.
Uteology"There is a huge difference between losing to Colorado
and UNLV."ONLY in the delusional mind of a bcs apologist. SOS
was ALREADY INCLUDED in the rankings, so your desperate attempt to double-dip
SOS simply proves that you don't understand the system.#120
UNLV 2-10#129 Washington 0-12#103 Mississippi 2-10#107
Colorado 3-9 However, there IS a HUGE difference between the four
teams you cited:BYU BEAT Washington and MississippiUtah LOST
to UNLV and Colorado Major/Mid-major labels are meaningless.
Colorado was just as bad as Mississippi, Washington and UNLV.more...
@skywalkerMid-major labels are meaningless?Again, I
quote you ESPN: "While the grind of Pac-12 play is far different
than the Mountain West Conference, it's clear that Utah can compete in the
Pac-12."But I don't expect you to understand what
"grind" of real football is like.Well let me cite you
something else then, your team got spanked 31-16 in 2010 by:#114
Utah State (4-8)So why are you crying about #107 Colorado?
Uh naval vet....you are claiming BYU got more revenue from ESPN than I did, I
said about 5 mil for football and about 1.5 mil as their sahre of the wcc
revenues. By my math that is 6.5 mil, you're claiming their revenues were
7.4 mil and that doesn't even include the wcc money. So if you are
admitting they got even more revenue than I claimed they did is my
"faiL' for underestimating their revenue? LOL!Also BYU gets
athletic department specific donations, one of the guys I coach with is a mjaor
BYU booster and I know he alone gives the athletic program in excess of 1 mil
per year. That's one guy. When I put it at 5 mil I was just being
conservative because I know you are having a panic attack over this so I used a
pretty reasonalbe number.You realize utah's $150 mil fund
raising drive is athletic dpeartment specific don't you? It is designed to
increase athletic department revenues over the next several years. I guess those
contributions will be "moot" as well so that $150 mil is false?
Duckhunter you are correct.BYU does have some catching up to do.They
are 6-9 all time against San Jose St!
Uteology"Kyle has a 13-0 undefeated team with wins over #6, #7,
#18, #25." - how many were "really" good?"Bronco is
10-11 vs BCS teams; Kyle is 17-10." - so what!In other words,
according to your good/mediocre/bad meter:Ranked Team =
Good/Mediocre TeamUnranked Team = Bad/Mediocre Teambcs =
Good/Mediocre Teamnon-bcs = Bad/Mediocre TeamUtah 2008 beats
four ranked teams - four good teams; but only two of them are bcs teams - two
good teams; but, three of them are bcs teams - three good teams; Utah finishes
#2/#4 - good team; but Utah is a non-bcs team - mediocre team.hmmmBYU 2006 beats one ranked team - one good team; but, TCU
isn't a bcs team - zero good teams; but, BYU beat two bcs teams - two good
teams; BYU finishes #16/#15 - good team; but BYU is a non-bcs team - mediocre
team.It all gets soooo confusing when you arbitrarily rate teams
good, mediocre or bad, based strictly on labels.UNLV(2-10),
Colorado(3-10), Ole Miss(2-10) and Washington(0-12) were ALL BAD teams.
uteology"Well let me cite you something else then, your team got
spanked 31-16 in 2010 by: #114 Utah State (4-8)"BYU got spanked
by Utah State because our defensive coordinator literally QUIT in the first
quarter and stopped calling defensive plays - Hill was fired the next
morning.What was Utah's excuse for getting SHUTOUT by
UNLV(2-10), who's only other win in 2007 was over another 10-loss team,
Utah State(2-10)?What was Utah's excuse for getting DOMINATED
in the first half AT HOME by Colorado(3-10) with the pac south title there for
the taking? What was Utah's excuse for LOSING to two of their
six pac opponents with LOSING records?If that's what U call
"competing," Utah has NO CHANCE of ever being anything more than a
Duckhunter:You said $12M, but failed to break out the difference
between Football and Basketball. Probably because there had been no verifiable
reports that pointed to your revenue sharing for Basketball, thus rendering
Basketball revenues moot. What IS known however, is that Football brings in
substantially more revenue than Basketball. And for Football, Utah's
revenues are higher than the Indy-WACers. I already broke it out for you. Bottom line: you failed to produce any evidence that supports the
substantial budget shortfall of Utah compared to their little brother.P.S.: No, the $150 million donor drive for Utah does NOT count. At least not
from a budgeting perspective. Money recognized in Accounts Receivable is not
the same as Cash. Besides, the money drive is a "goal"; not a
receivable. So it doesn't even count as AR. Once the money is received,
its unused portions are applied to the subsequent year's FP&A budget as
When will you univrsity of utah ute fans wake up and ACCEPT the REALITY that
Mike Sorenson has been and always be a dyed in the wool Ute fan? I am getting
sick of seeing this slander towards him and it needs to stop! I'm sure his
wife Connie can attest to this fact.... Or perhaps his kids too????
Wow, somebody sure got worked up about comparing $$$ to their big brother.Unfortunately for U, shiney new facilities can't guarantee that U
won't still be a bottom-feeder in every sport.
@naval vetNo I didn't say "$12 million". I said $5mil
for football and $1.5 mil for their share of the wcc as each team in the wcc
gets approximately $1.5 mil per year from ESPN. That is a total of $6.5 mil. Also donations to the athletic dpeartment are athletic department
revenue. I actually get paid by that revenue at both schools when I contract
work at them. My checks come from the athletic departments and I have many times
done work that was paid for directly by ATLETIC DEPARTMENT DONATIONS." The numbers are drawn from schools’ reports to the U.S. Department
of Education on the state of their athletic departments’ finances for July
1, 2009 to June 30, 2010. See the note at the end for more details on the
data.""BYU $15,763,650.00 Univ of Utah
$14,690,174.00"That is from an article by Kristi Dosh titled
"The business of college sports" which you can google and is based on
thier numbers from their last year in the MWC.It is worth noting
that while BYU has a 1mil edge they profit 5mil utah loses money.
Utah is on the rise! Rear-view mirror is BYu.
So when the official announcement of BYU's impending 2014-2015 home and
home with Wisconsin is officially announced in the next few weeks what will the
angst filled cries of utah "fans" sound like?
92 bottles of comments on the wall, 92 bottles of comments, take one down, pass
it around, go Utes and finish the bottle.