Well Bryce, if you take the street car line you will move faster through all
that traffic. If you don't recall there is a gapping HOLE in sugar house
where some fool investor didn't finish his job. ANYTHING done to that area
(sugarhouse) is a worthy endeavor. Try taking tracks to a jazz game or
something, see if it works rather than just complain.
Do you use the business? If not, then should you really be huffing on whether or
not it is sufficient? Maybe there are many good reasons why this project is good
Bus is what I meant, not business. (auto-correcting keyboard).
With nearly $500 Million in development happening in Sugar House in the next few
years and nearly 1500 more residents in the area, this is sorely needed.The roads in the area are already packed during the day. Add in the
population increase and the roads will be beyond bursting. There isn't any
chance that the roads will be widened due to the density in the area, more buses
won't work as traffic is already bad now.What would you have
them do? Nothing? That won't work. This is 1 area that needs it now.
There are many others that will need it in the next 10 to 20 years. SLC is
planning for this as they have seen the numbers and know that increased transit
options are the only way to move more people when road widening cannot occur.I personally thing adding Light Rail & Street Cars is a better way
to go then congestion pricing on cars trying to drive through a given area.
Bryce,you nailed it - nostalgia - that's the only reason it is being
built.Esquire,whether Bryce rides the bus or not, he is still
PAYING for the streecar line through his taxes, so he has every right to
complain. You may not agree with his complaint, but please do not claim he has
no right to make it as the taxes he pays buy him that right.Makid,Will density increase in Sugarhouse? maybe, but ever hear of feet
and legs? The spur is not that long that you cannot walk. And don't talk
about winter cold or summer heat. Go to Manhattan and see how many people WALK
to get around and our weather is no worse than theirs. Another thing you will
see in Manhattan is the average Joe there is not nearly as FAT as we are.No, I can think of better uses for my sales tax dollars than a spur in
The population of Utah is expected to double over the next 20 or so years. Its
a good idea to be ready. I think that public transportation is going to look a
lot more appealing when the freeways are completely clogged with people. And
guess what... it will already be in place!
@ lost in DC, the issue raised by the writer is sufficiency of buses in the
Sugarhouse area. A long term vision for infrastructure is needed, and there
seems to be some here. The late Sam Taylor, a long time opponent of light rail,
turned out to be wrong. These kinds of projects have led to an improvement in
lifestyle, encouraged development and otherwise benefited cities around the
world in ways other than whether fares fully pay for the cost of the project. A
simple example is Interstate highways. At its own level, this project will
provide many benefits to the community. Time to think forward instead of going
back to the 1960s era of cars, cars, cars which ultimately had a negative impact
on cities and quality of life in many ways. We are seeing a trend back to
urbanization and alternate transportation modes, a result of the marketplace.
We have a duty to respond with appropriate infrastructure improvements, just as
was done by leaders in the past. Conservatives seem to not want to invest in
our country. Maybe they want to go "third world". Sure seems that way.
I agree w/lost in DCWe should give all the money for our
infrastructure to the rich so they can hide it in the Cayman Islands and Swiss
Bank Accounts. Then, they'll create jobs by asking us to build car garage
elevators in their gigantic mansions. Oh, and we should also defund
public education. Privatize everything. Vouchers. Fracking in Utah and burying
Nuke waste will provide our state with all the money it will ever need.that'll save the country!Along with throwing another $1 or $2
trillion away in the middle east. Maybe we could "stimulate" our economy
by fighting another war, maybe this time in Iran. Since the Iraqi and
Afghanistan wars have done "wonders" for our economy, right?the middle-class fights and pays these wars while the rich hide money
overseas. Until it's election year, when they throw over $100
million at a flip flopping CEO to become President and do everything that they
UTA does WHAT they want WHEN they want. Public need or "best use" of
tax dollars doesn't really enter into the equation.UTA should
be privatized, or allow the general public to vote on whether to continue to
fund them.The ONLY way it will ever change is if citizens write or
call their elected representatives to let them know how they feel.The state legislature really needs to get involved. UTA "board" is
nothing but a rubber stamp for whatever UTA mgmt. wants.
Henderson,a typical response.when you cannot refute, you
distort and place never spoken words in my mouth.I guess you're
OK with 80% of the porkulus money spent on "green" energy companies
being spent OUTSIDE the US and you are CERTAIN none of your 401(k), other
retirement account, or mutual funds have NO international invesments. You can
guarantee that, right?And you know for a fact that I have opposed
EVERY school funding vote every put before me and have supported EVERY voucher
bill presented? That would be a lie since I have never opposed the former or
supported the latter.flip-flopping CEO. better than a president who
consistently lies. No lobbyists in his administration, close GITMO, keep your
current health plan if you like it, cut the cost of health care, cut the deficit
in half, open and transparent adminsitration (executive privilege for gun
runners, anyone?), all bills posted on line before passage, etc ad infinitum.But since I don't agree with you, I have no right to express my
opinion. That was the main point of my first post, since Bryce was PAYING, he
has a right to complain. knock yourself out!
@ Counter Intelligence, good comment.
"when you cannot refute"Oh please. There's no need to
refute, others have already done that. I have refuted your posts before.
Besides, I know how you are and how much of a waste of time it is to refute the
worthless points you try and make."flip-flopping CEO. better
than a president who consistently lies"Are you describing your
etch a sketch? Lying and flip flopping to me is essentially the same.
When business controls the government, like in Utah and all the other
governments in America, taxpayer money is being stolen under false pretences.
The fact is, building public works is extremely profitable for business and the
civic leaders who give the taxpayer money away.Once built, the
interest wanes, There’s no big profit in public venues. And even if the
development fails the business walks away with huge profits.When
governments run into financial difficulty, they point to wages and benefits of
civil workers as being the problem. When it is really the give-away government
to their business masters who are at fault.So when your city becomes
bankrupt, try to remember where the money went. Better still, get business out
@lost in DCHave you actually spent much time in my city? If you had you
would know that we have a very, very extensive mass transit system.70% of people
that live in manhattan as I do do not even own a car so it is true we walk more
but we also have learned to live without our cars and know that we have easy
reliable access to mass transit when needed. I gave up my car when I moved from
Utah to New York and I i have to say I have never missed it because or transit
system is so extensive there is no need for a car.
I as a conservative do like the idea of the street car lines. The serve a very
needed service. The only problem is they usually forget the need for
destinations at both ends. The UofU line should have been extended to Hogle
Zoo. The Sugar house line should pass through the Sugar House Park, at least it
will go near West Minister College. In the late forties, and fifties you could
go as far as preston ID. Why has UTA terminated the Airport line at the
Airport, they should have extended through the International Center and out to
Henderson,I'm sorry, you said you refuted. Tell me where you said:
the spur was not just for nastalgia.Bryce is not paying
for the spur with his taxes and therefore he cannot complainpeople
in Manhattan do not walk a few blocks to transit stations.You did
not respond to ANYTHING I said. You went on the typical diatribe of lefties
picking a fight with wild rantings.George,I replied earlier -
DN did not post - sorry for the delay.I have spent two-three week
stints in NYC for work, though it has been a couple years. You have an
extensive and efficient transit system. But not trains every 200 yards
throughout the entire city (please correct me if I am wrong), but you have bus
coverage in shorter intervals (as does/would sugarhouse). New Yorkers do have
to walk a few blocks to reach some transit stations; they have to walk in the
cold of winter and the heat of summer, as would the residents of Sugarhouse if
this spur is not built.I chose NYC for my example because the
weather extremes are not that dissimilar to ours AND because of your efficient
Lost in DC,You may not be aware but the bus speed in New York is the
slowest of any bus speed in the country due to the congestion on the roads.
There are some new express buses that have been put in that run in dedicated
lanes. To do this, they took 5 lane roads and dropped them down to 3 lanes, 1
each direction and 1 turning lane. This sped up the speed by just over 50%.Now, extra buses in Sugar House isn't possible because of the
current level of congestion. Adding more buses makes it worse as they are in
traffic. Removing a lane of travel from both sides of 2100 South would be
terrible for the area as this would increase travel delays for the whole
corridor.By building the street car line on an abandoned rail line
that is owned by UTA, they are able to increase coverage for the area without
increasing congestion for the residents. This increases the general welfare of
the residents as well as increases the property value for those near the line.
At the same time, it will decrease congestion along 2100 South.
Makid,thank you for the reasoned response.you have better
spelled out the reasons for the line than Henderson. Maybe because that was not
the intent of Henderson's commentI still believe there is
plenty of room for pedestrian traffic along where this spur would run (thus the
comparison with NYC and how people there walk). While I see some benefit to the
spur, I do not believe the benefits outweigh the cost to operate and maintain
the line. Others will disagree.Henderson,"Lying and flip
flopping to me is essentially the same". So you won't be voting for
The only reason they are building it is because of the 26 million grant they got
from the federal government. Salt Lake and South Salt lake is spending 10 times
that around it.